K1DEU
160 ft Rohn 45g Tower
Premium
join:2007-10-30
Stamford, VT
| reply to slaver
Re: [HN7000S] Traffic Shaping refer to locked thread 4 - 12
My 4-12 PM Traffic shaping was turned off some time ago after spending almost 4 patient hours on the phone to Hughes. They re-booted my modem remotely and there was no transponder or gateway change. Its rough but they needed extra bandwith for their SpaceWay deployment.
Not that I know anything but many of my friends and I do collectively.
My satellite experience started listening to Sputnik around 1957 just on the side of WWV 20 MHz at home in Williamstown, Mass. with my Hallicrafters S-85.
I later experienced and monitored/tested our Secret DSCS satellite in 1966 serving our Military communications between DCS Petagon/California to the Phillippines to Vietnam when serving in a Air Force Comm unit in the PI.
Yes, Geosynchronous 73, John K1DEU in 57 and now
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HN7000s Small Off |.98 | 2watt | house wall mount| G16 V-TX| 1210 |RSS 94 |Ubuntu 7.10 OS|www.spiritualpeaceproject.com |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
| said by K1DEU  : Its rough but they needed extra bandwith for their SpaceWay deployment. did they try to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge during that conversation as well?
//greg//
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HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox - AVG+Firewall v7.5 |
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MMS747
@direcpc.com
| reply to K1DEU
K1DEU: I was a year old when Sputnik was launched. Interesting theory about their needing bandwidth for SpaceWay deployment. You do understand, however, that I've got a whole drawer full of theories I've collected in here. If that's what's going on, would it kill Hughes to give us a heads-up email? (They've sent me emails about their email service, which I haven't used since 2003.) The way they act, you'd think Howard was still alive.
You're a very patient man, in your own way. I would rather wait four months than spend four hours on the phone with Hughes. My patience moves in other ways. |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
edit:
May 7th, @06:28AM
| said by MMS747 :
Interesting theory about their needing bandwidth for SpaceWay deployment. Unfortunately it's a completely unfounded theory. Spaceway III is a Ka-band satellite. They launched it to INCREASE available customer bandwidth, over and above what they now have on their leased KU-bandwidth. And since it involves a completely new Ka-band earth terminal, it should be a given that the back end bandwidth (internet access) increased proportionately as well.
//greg//
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HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox - AVG+Firewall v7.5 |
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MMS747
@direcpc.com | As for K1DEU's theory about Hughes needing to throttle usage in order to deploy SpaceWay, he may be partly right. What if it's cash they need, not bandwidth per se? |
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MichaelRS
join:2006-06-10
Half Moon Bay, CA
| I am still throttled and I have not used p2p or any other of the possibly objectional stuff.
Just got another call into the ECC, they give me the same dance as always, with "special phone" and "PIN", but need to "investigate".
I am still trying to uncover their pattern here. So apparently some users got throttled and then they remove the throttle. I am willing to believe it is a subset, but defined by what parameter. We have now seen it on and off and so likely it is some automtatic mechanism that kicks in for some users and not all (even on the transponder/gateway basis as the data is a bit scattered.
Could it be that they have indeed implemented in Mar/Apr a throttle mechanism that is not very proper programmed and through "investigation", they clean up errors in flagging the wrong users ?
Of course ECC was very forthcoming to provide as first solution cancellation and refund, even equipment. If they don't get it backed I am likely to take that and get T-1.
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HN7000S - Satmex 6 - 1210 - 0.98m / 2W dish - HughesNet ProPlus |
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MMS747
@direcpc.com
| Got this interesting info from a Bluestar site:
"HughesNet's sophisticated Fair Access Policy (FAP) operates in real time. The system is designed to penalise sites that consistently download large amounts of data over prolonged periods of time - such as video streaming or peer to peer applications.
There are two levels of FAP that can be applied. The first is known as a "soft throttle" and sets a limit on your maximum download speed. The second, or "hard throttle", restricts the offending site to less than 64kbps. Once FAP is applied to a particular site it can take several hours for the FAP to be lifted. Customers on higher service plans will be able to use the service more heavily without running the risk of being subjected to FAP. In the same way, higher service plans will have the FAP lifted at a quicker rate than sites on , say, the basic home level package."
--- No copyright date on the page, but it lists service plans for the DW4020, DW6000, DW7000 and HN7000S models (in euros). Bluestar is an authorized VAR for Hughes products in Europe and the Middle East. Maybe the "SOFT THROTTLE" is something started overseas and is now being tried here? Have we been soft throttled? |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
edit:
May 7th, @11:06PM
| said by MMS747 :
Maybe the "SOFT THROTTLE" is something started overseas and is now being tried here? Have we been soft throttled?
Once again, you simply don't understand what you're reading. What's described is a normal function of a normal connection. Soft throttle is how the top speeds of the respective rate plans are controlled; 700k Home, 1000 Pro, 1500 ProPlus, et cetera. Hard throttle, that's the FAP. Nothing mysterious, nothing sinister.
//greg//
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HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AVG+Firewall v7.5 |
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MMS747
@direcpc.com | You are right. Please nobody think I am trying to suggest anything underhanded on the part of Hughes. I'm just trying to find some explanations for what we're seeing. |
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MonstaDriva
join:2007-09-02 | Keep up the good work . We do know there's somthing sinister lurking here .We just have to find out what and err who . |
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MMS747
@direcpc.com
| reply to grohgreg
Are you sure, Greg? Here's from ServiceSat (Dubai?):
"Hughes FAP has two levels of throttling. Once you reach the first level of data volume it applies a "soft" throttle that restricts you to half of your burst speed. Should the continuous download be sustained the system enters a "hard" throttle state where you are restricted to less than 64Kbps."
----Or is burst speed twice our service level? |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
edit:
May 7th, @11:40PM
| Yes. I'm sure. Advertised speed is nothing more than a number that is averaged over time. Satellite transmissions burst with speeds FAR in excess of the plan max. I've seen bursts of over 6 mbps, although that was back in the DW4000 days. But when you factor in the idle time BETWEEN bursts, the speed over time is supposed to average out to roughly the number stated in your rate plan.
The graphic I uploaded is of my throughput monitor displaying a real-time view of a 15MB file download. Note that the current burst is a mere 323k, but during the last 30 seconds it had burst as high as 2.8mb. But the average is 1.5m which - coincidentally - is what my ProPlus plan is rated to provide (the soft throttle).
Get off those non-US sites. Hughes runs a whole different operation outside North America. All you're doing is confusing yourselves.
//greg//
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HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AVG+Firewall v7.5 |
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RandyB21
@direcpc.com | reply to grohgreg
Re: [HN7000S] Traffic Shaping refer to locked thread 4 - 12
Greg, see patent titled "Method and system for providing committed information rate (CIR) based fair access policy" to Hughes Electronics Corp. 7/28/05 |
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grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
edit:
May 8th, @07:42AM
| said by RandyB21 :
Greg, see patent titled "Method and system for providing committed information rate (CIR) based fair access policy" to Hughes Electronics Corp. 7/28/05
Standard flow control and FAP stuff, did you actually read it? A brief scan reveals nothing obviously related to this "4-12" thing. If you have a specific point, please make it.
//greg//
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HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AVG+Firewall v7.5 |
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MMS747
@direcpc.com
| reply to grohgreg
Re: [HN7000S] Traffic Shaping refer to locked thread 4 - 12
(Greg, I am RandyB21. Don't ask. Suffice it to say that these forums are monitored.)
What's standard to some is a revelation to others. I had no idea that ISPs have the tools to codify and control with such precision the usage of individual users. (I'm obviously not a frequent visitor to the diagnostics pages). But your statement that it "reveals nothing obviously related to this "4-12 thing" is not entirely correct. First, it further defines the meaning and use of various levels of throttle. The "soft throttle" is more than just the contracted service level. Second, it shows the growing sophistication of "traffic shaping" tools. Once again, I stress that this only illustrates what ISPs are CAPABLE of. It doesn't necessarily apply to the "4-12 thing." |
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MonstaDriva
join:2007-09-02
edit:
May 9th, @08:28AM
| The bottem line here is the 4 to 12 throttle is a screw job on certain users .If its just some kind of managment tool , Why not just let us deal with normal congestion with dips down into the 100's , 200's 300's etc . This method makes it like hughesnet are the ones hogging up all the bandwidth and its them denying us decent service during primetime . Most people are home after 4 and go to bed before midnight so effectively they are screwing you right out of the hours you'd like to set and enjoy your internet time . Its like they have found a way to take your money and screw you right out of what you are suppose to get for that money . Its pure dee thievery . I was much happier dealing with nature , nature being normal traffic . They always say , if you need more megs you should consider a higher plan , But they punish you even if you get a higher plan . I have broken no rules nor any terms of the contract . If I do download at the advertized speed that takes a total of 45 minutes over a 24 hour period . What the heck is so bad about that ? |
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MMS747
@direcpc.com
| Check out what's happing in Canada, where the traffic shaping is more out in the open and in-your-face. Google "traffic shaping Canada." Read the articles, but also read the comments following the articles. The debate is raging full force up there right now, especially following the complaint to the Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission. |
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slaver
join:2006-07-23
Alma, WV | reply to MonstaDriva
You said it absolutely correct monsta. |
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