lets456
join:2008-01-21
Hainesport, NJ
| Best splitter...does it really matter?
We are having our basement redone. Verizon has the main feed then a three way splitter.Off of the Verizon installed 3-way splitter, One line for the BR and FR TV that splits in the attic and goes to respective tv's. A line to the router and one line in the basement which I purchased a Phillips digital splitter for 2 tv's. Will this be ok?
Once I put the ceiling up, accessing the main splitter will be difficult (main in to three way split). I assume this phillips splitter should be ok....it's the type bought at Wal Mart. Right now I have the DCT-700 running off it just fine, but I will put the HD box there. |
|
Rattler
join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Any splitter used should be rated for frequencies above 1 GHz otherwise you may have problems.
I just added a 2-way splitter I got from R/S rated at 1.1 GHz and am running a DCT-700 and an HD-DVR off of it. This is on one coax run, down-stream from the V* provided 6-way splitter that's at the ONT.
I've tuned most of the channels I normally view on the HD-DVR and recorded a couple of HD programs since adding it with no problems.
I did notice some audio drop-outs and video noise on a VOD (Pirates/Caribe-3) I watched last night but have not checked to see if yanking the splitter would solve that problem - it's hard to get to it.
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons |
|
JrzyDave
join:2008-01-31
Point Pleasant Beach, NJ
| Your kind of asking for trouble if your going to finish off that ceiling and no longer have access to that splitter. You might want to think about installing an access panel there or re-run your coax wires while the walls or ceilings are open and homerun them to somewhere else that is accessible. I've been to homes where they have paneled over where their phone lines terminate or coax cables and the customer is stuck with opening the ceilings to isolate a problem. |
|
mglunt
join:2001-09-10
Fredericksburg, VA
·Verizon FIOS
 ·VoicePulse
| said by JrzyDave  :Your kind of asking for trouble if your going to finish off that ceiling and no longer have access to that splitter. You might want to think about installing an access panel there or re-run your coax wires while the walls or ceilings are open and homerun them to somewhere else that is accessible. I've been to homes where they have paneled over where their phone lines terminate or coax cables and the customer is stuck with opening the ceilings to isolate a problem. I agree. You need to have access to the splitter in case you ever need it. |
|
proletarian
join:2007-01-08
00000
| reply to Rattler
said by Rattler :Any splitter used should be rated for frequencies above 1 GHz otherwise you may have problems. although a splitter rated about 1GHz would not hurt - it absolutely will not cause problems.
a standard 5-900MHz splitter will be fine. that is all that verizon uses.
your video broadcast is under 900MHZ. the moca network which does run about 1GHz is designed to power through these splitters.
of course, if you're going to board this thing up (and please don't), then you may want to "future proof" yourself (or satellite proof?) those outlets with a higher rated splitter. |
|
GeekGirl1
The Medium IS the Message
Premium
join:2007-01-28
Morrisville, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to lets456
Don't forget about the low-end frequency. You need to go down to 5 MHz. Some only go down to 40 MHz- not good enough and you'll have problems with the STB talking back to the ONT, like for VOD, guide, or widget info. The DCT700 doesn't use those features and doesn't care, the HD STB does.
When Verizon did the installlation, they should have checked the levels at each TV. If they didn't, or you changed something after the install, then you might have a problem not using the "official" Verizon splitter (5 MHz to 1000 MHz). |
|
proletarian
join:2007-01-08
00000
| said by GeekGirl1 :Don't forget about the low-end frequency. You need to go down to 5 MHz. Some only go down to 40 MHz- not good enough and you'll have problems with the STB talking back to the ONT, like for VOD, guide, or widget info. The DCT700 doesn't use those features and doesn't care, the HD STB does. geekgirl,
you're confusing the cable company return path. they use freq's under 55 or so for their return.
and the stb's don't talk back to the ont, they communicate back to the router via moca (over 1GHz). from their the return is sent on the data upstream path either by ethernet or coax.
the fios return path is via moca which is above 1GHz |
|
Monjul
@njscc.com | reply to lets456
I would still look for the best splitter I could find. A standard splitter loses about 3db per tap so look for one that is only 2db down per tap which is what Verizon used in my setup. |
|
Rattler
join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon FIOS
| said by Monjul :
I would still look for the best splitter I could find. A standard splitter loses about 3db per tap so look for one that is only 2db down per tap which is what Verizon used in my setup.
Not sure where that idea might come from but even if the splitter were perfect, you'd lose 3 dB per each 2x split - it's just the way things work. In practicality, the loss is more like 3.5 dB for each split for a high quality, passive splitter.
Split 2x = 3.5 dB, each leg
Split 3x = 1x3.5 dB, 2x7 dB (usually)
Split 4x = 7-8 dB, each leg
Split 8x = 14-16 dB, each leg
There can be other splitter configurations that would yield slightly different numbers like 5-6 dB per leg on a 3-way or ~11-12 dB per leg on a 6-way.
The 6-way splitter they used on my install is marked 11.5 dB per leg.
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons |
|
KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
| said by Rattler :said by Monjul :
I would still look for the best splitter I could find. A standard splitter loses about 3db per tap so look for one that is only 2db down per tap which is what Verizon used in my setup.
Not sure where that idea might come from but even if the splitter were perfect, you'd lose 3 dB per each 2x split - it's just the way things work. In practicality, the loss is more like 3.5 dB for each split for a high quality, passive splitter. Split 2x = 3.5 dB, each leg Split 3x = 1x3.5 dB, 2x7 dB (usually) Split 4x = 7-8 dB, each leg Split 8x = 14-16 dB, each leg There can be other splitter configurations that would yield slightly different numbers like 5-6 dB per leg on a 3-way or ~11-12 dB per leg on a 6-way. The 6-way splitter they used on my install is marked 11.5 dB per leg. Rattler, put those numbers on a slope tuning loss, as the loss per port can vary 3-5db depending whether you are at 54MHz or 1000MHz.
Decent CATV splitters can be obtained by the names of PDI(Passive Devices Inc), Antronix, PCT, Toner,...
Monster is overpriced JUNK, and RatShack scares the heck out of me because you really don't know what you are buying.
Many splitters look better than others based on the frequency that the manufacturer is testing them at.
Then figure another (+/-1) DB for manufacturing inconsistencies.
They stamp out more than 5k splitters per hour in China, so you know nothing is precise, so to speak... 
--
"Lithium is no longer available on credit" |
|
Rattler
join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon FIOS
edit:
May 10th, @02:11PM
| @ KA3SGM:
I was just listing the approximate numbers that could possibly be expected for a decent unit - 2 dB loss per leg is just not possible on a passive splitter.
The 6-way splitter V* used on my install is a PDI and the insertion loss (11.5 dB) was marked on each output - I didn't see any test freq. listed.
I bought the R/S splitter (#15-2587) because I needed one ASAP and it was expensive for a 2-way (~$11). They had two types on the rack, one was rated at 5-100 MHz and this one was spec'd at 5 - 1100 MHz. Neither had any insertion loss numbers.
I used it to split the coax to my HD-DVR and the freebie DCT-700, at the wall plate. Both are working fine. The SNR on the HD-DVR @ 633 MHz is 36.5 dB/GOOD and no errors, with the splitter in the line. So with the 11.5 dB at the 6-way tap and maybe another 4-5 dB at the R/S 2-way, I still have a good signal at the HD-DVR.
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons |
|
GeekGirl1
The Medium IS the Message
Premium
join:2007-01-28
Morrisville, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to proletarian
said by proletarian :geekgirl, you're confusing the cable company return path. they use freq's under 55 or so for their return. and the stb's don't talk back to the ont, they communicate back to the router via moca (over 1GHz). from their the return is sent on the data upstream path either by ethernet or coax. the fios return path is via moca which is above 1GHz You are correct. My bad  . I got confused. On a minor point, I would keep my coax splitters "backwards compatible" with cable... just in case. |
|
KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Rattler
Rattler, whatever works.....
Do you have a Tellabs, or an Alcatel ONT??
I know the Tellabs ones run the Video pretty hot, between +18 db / +20 db, but not sure about the newer Alcatel ones.
I know I can run a single 16-Way splitter without problems off of a Tellabs 612, which is -16.5 db per port, but currently have the Router, ONT, 3 HD-DVR's and 2 SD boxes on a single 8-Way, with 1 port terminated and another jumping to a separate 6-way that feeds Analog(but not for long), QAM tuners, and 3 DCT700 Digital Adapters.
--
"Lithium is no longer available on credit" |
|
Rattler
join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon FIOS
| @ KA3SGM...
I have an Alcatel (my CO, Kirklyn, is GPON).
I don't know what the output level of the ONT is and have been kicking myself for not asking the install tech what it was... 
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons |
|
GeekGirl1
The Medium IS the Message
Premium
join:2007-01-28
Morrisville, PA | +18 dBmV |
|
Rattler
join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA | Merci, GG1 !!! |
|
KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to GeekGirl1
said by GeekGirl1 :+18 dBmV GeekGirl1, Yes +18 dbmv is the Tellabs 612 Video Output Spec, but why am I afraid that you also tested it yourself to confirm that it was true?? 
--
"Lithium is no longer available on credit" |
|
lets456
join:2008-01-21
Hainesport, NJ
| Thanks for the replies. I had to have a tech come out to replace a panel on my ONT....the phone portion died. Anyway I asked him about the splitter and he said what most of you mentioned....about losing a certain amount of -Db every 25' or so then about how much you lose (-3Db) per split. However, he mentioned that when they install the bigger concern is having a signal that's too hot and need to attenuate down....so splitting many times is not a problem.
He said he did a house with 26 "splits" and was the only time he had to use and amplifier. |
|
nothoteverywhere
@verizon.net | reply to lets456
those hot levels must be nice.
onts in oregon get +13 on a good day. |
|
GeekGirl1
The Medium IS the Message
Premium
join:2007-01-28
Morrisville, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
May 17th, @11:10AM
| reply to KA3SGM
said by KA3SGM :GeekGirl1, Yes +18 dbmv is the Tellabs 612 Video Output Spec, but why am I afraid that you also tested it yourself to confirm that it was true??:p Have you ever known an engineer with equipment in-hand to not do otherwise? Of course I did (with the Verizon techs during the original install). Be very afraid. The saga continues: »10 way splitter |
|
