Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day in AT&T West http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20443906 en Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:43:42 EDT Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:43:42 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20500301 snafur : Tonight, things seem to have settled down. In our house, we haven't changed any usage patterns. We also live on 2.5 acres so don't know if our neighbors could cause any problems. (Their dog barks on occasion, but I don't think that would effect this! haha.) Tonight's Stats:

Line State UP
Modulation ANSI
Data Path fast

To Modem To Internet
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1536 384
SN Margin (dB) 15.5 -
Line Attenuation (dB) 52.5 -
Loss of Signal 0 -
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 5 2

160 Time Elapsed 231 1131 0
161 Chan Received Blks 13641 66163 0
162 Chan Transmitted Blks 13641 66163 0
163 Chan Corrected Blks 3 8 0
164 Chan Uncorrected Blks 0 34 0
165 HEC Vcnt - - -
166 HEC Tcnt - - -
167 HEC Ucnt - - -
168 ICBE - - -
169 LCD 0 0 0
170 NCD 0 0 0
171 CVL 3 8 0
172 LCD Tx 0 0 0
173 NCD Tx 0 0 0
174 CVL Tx 0 2 0
175 LOF 0 0 0
176 LOS 0 0 0
177 LOSS - - -
178 LOL 0 0 0
179 LPR 0 0 0
180 ES 0 0 0
181 SESL 0 0 0
182 UASL 0 0 0
183 ECL 0 0 0
184 ECSL 0 0 0
185 ECL Tx 0 34 0
186 Inits 0 1 0
187 FastR 0 0 0
188 Failed FastR - - -
189 DSL Initialization Errors 0 0 0
190 DSL Initialization Timeouts 0 0 0
191 DSL Line Search Initializations 0 1 0
192 DSL Loss of Margin Failures 0 0 0
193 ISP Connection Establishment 0 1 0

It seems like the line has settled down now. Could this be a provisioning issue after the repair? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20500301 Sun, 18 May 2008 00:54:32 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20496947 d_l : The long URL works fine. That is a strange looking DMT chart. Those missing notches almost look like evenly spaced harmonic interference. The most common source for this type of interference would be a variable speed motor on something like a tread mill, but usually when there is one of those devices in a residence the notches are a little deeper and a little more evenly spaced. See this post: »Re: [Line Problem] Elite works fine, until the treadmill is star

I'll bet that whatever is making your notches is also causing your CRC errors. One way of tracking down the interference source is to use a portable AM radio to listen for noises around the house: »Ameritech - SBC FAQ »My DSL loses sync regularly. How can I detect interference with an AM Radio? The best way to do that in your situation would be to tune the radio to the lowest frequency that is quiet and then check around your place. The DMT chart and the notches on it are below the AM band, but maybe you can catch some interference frequencies from their upper range. You might be listing for a buzzing, humming, or whistling noise.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20496947 Sat, 17 May 2008 06:26:54 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20496605 snafur : »/users/deblin/···aph=true

Does this work for the graph? I get a reallllllly long URL.

Should I also include:

Downstream Maxrate (Estimated): 2496
Upstream Maxrate (Estimated): 844

Bit tones with notches/missing bits:

bit(s) 38:44 163.875 - 194.0625 KHz
bit(s) 47:48 202.6875 - 211.3125 KHz
bit(s) 51 219.9375 - 224.25 KHz
bit(s) 54:63 232.875 - 276 KHz
bit(s) 65:66 280.3125 - 288.9375 KHz
bit(s) 69:71 297.5625 - 310.5 KHz
bit(s) 73 314.8125 - 319.125 KHz
bit(s) 77 332.0625 - 336.375 KHz
bit(s) 80:81 345 - 353.625 KHz
bit(s) 84 362.25 - 366.5625 KHz
bit(s) 87:89 375.1875 - 388.125 KHz
bit(s) 91 392.4375 - 396.75 KHz
bit(s) 95 409.6875 - 414 KHz
bit(s) 98 422.625 - 426.9375 KHz
bit(s) 102 439.875 - 444.1875 KHz
bit(s) 106:108 457.125 - 470.0625 KHz
bit(s) 125 539.0625 - 543.375 KHz
bit(s) 131:255 564.9375 - 1104 KHz

BTW, do the tech terms vary from modem to modem, or are they something any NetAdmin should know?

Thanks, I think I'm really stretching here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20496605 Sat, 17 May 2008 01:15:19 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20496544 d_l : So you are running about 1000 errors per hour which I consider to be a little high. Each CRC error means that 17 milliseconds of data (bit) transmission on the DSL layer has been corrupted, dropped, and must be retransmitted. You can get CRC errors when the modem is "idling" because nulls are always being sent when no actual data is going through.

There isn't any glossary for the techreadout terms.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20496544 Sat, 17 May 2008 00:56:37 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20496470 snafur : Tonight I'm getting a late start. Again, Sync has been good and the line is quiet. The Stats again seem a little high for a 24 hour period, but you tell me what you think.

Line State UP
Modulation ANSI
Data Path fast

To Modem To Internet
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1536 384
SN Margin (dB) 11.5 -
Line Attenuation (dB) 53.5 -
Loss of Signal 0 -
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 25119 63

14 Time Since Last Boot 001 days 01:19:41

32 Time Since Last Sync 001 days 01:19:29

15 Min 24 Hour Yesterday
160 Time Elapsed 170 86400 86400
161 Chan Received Blks 10040 5381468 5105540
162 Chan Transmitted Blks 10040 5381468 5105540
163 Chan Corrected Blks 0 25119 25102
164 Chan Uncorrected Blks 0 1734 1734
165 HEC Vcnt - - -
166 HEC Tcnt - - -
167 HEC Ucnt - - -
168 ICBE - - -
169 LCD 0 0 0
170 NCD 0 0 0
171 CVL 0 25119 25102
172 LCD Tx 0 0 0
173 NCD Tx 0 0 0
174 CVL Tx 0 63 63
175 LOF 0 0 0
176 LOS 0 0 0
177 LOSS - - -
178 LOL 0 0 0
179 LPR 0 0 0
180 ES 0 0 0
181 SESL 0 0 0
182 UASL 0 0 0
183 ECL 0 0 0
184 ECSL 0 0 0
185 ECL Tx 0 1734 1734
186 Inits 0 1 1

I'll try working on a DMT tool chart, but haven't been able to paste one here yet. (My goal for tonight!) Also, is there a FAQ that translates the Tech Readout abbreviations that you can link me to? What are CRC Errors? Maybe another question I should ask, what line noise could still exist even though I don't hear junk through my phone? The filter must limit the phone to POTS 300hZ - 3000hZ I guess. That must filter out noise that still could be causing problems in other areas, couldn't it?

Thanks again for your help.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20496470 Sat, 17 May 2008 00:36:23 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20491000 d_l : 343 errors in how many hours? If more than one, that isn't serious at all. Even over only one hour, that would be acceptable.

It isn't unusual for the SN margin to drop soon after syncing as line conditions change away from the optimum parameters the modem used at sync up. The SN margin may even go up again later in the day. Diurnal fluctuations are common for some of us. :)

Sometimes the DMT tool charts will show what happens during the time from the initial sync conditions to later when the noise margin drops. The tone bins may show a shift. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20491000 Fri, 16 May 2008 01:14:17 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490801 snafur : Tonight I power cycled the modem, and the crc errors began again. There's almost nothing on in the house. No lights with dimmers or other random noise generators I can think of. The error rate has been a steady climb since the reboot. Here are the stats:

Line State UP
Modulation ANSI
Data Path fast

To Modem To Internet
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1536 384
SN Margin (dB) 11.5 -
Line Attenuation (dB) 53.5 -
Loss of Signal 0 -
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 343 4

SN Margin went from 14 dB to 11.5 during this time as well. Checking the POTS side, DT is stable and the line is silent.

The speed test I just did to Megapath in SF is:

1224 down, 316 up, 25ms latency.

Should I be concerned the line still has problems, or just stop whining and get on with life???!!!

Thanks!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490801 Fri, 16 May 2008 00:13:44 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20485436 NormanS : Just a comparison. And a kind of a hint: About the splitter at the NID, I mean. Sometimes a splitter and home run on a marginal line helps.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20485436 Thu, 15 May 2008 03:45:52 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20485415 d_l : Could the bulk of that error count have come in while they were working on your pairs? If so, power cycle the modem and start the counters over again fresh. Then start watching the error accumulation rates.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20485415 Thu, 15 May 2008 03:29:35 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20485069 snafur : 14 Time Since Last Boot 001 days 21:20:23

There are no new noise sources from the AC, just a Frig in the kitchen, a deep freeze in the garage, and a heater that hasn't had to work for a while.

NormanS, I don't understand if you're responding to my original post or trying to hyjack this thread. Maybe you're posting your stats so I can compare to mine. Your stats look like they are for the next tier above me out here in the boonies.

Thanks guys.

edit: sorry, I don't mean to be an Ahole; just a NooB.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20485069 Thu, 15 May 2008 00:43:27 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20485001 NormanS :
said by snafur See Profile :

From line 171, stats that looked like they might be relevant...
Ouch!
Also...
I've got a DSL splitter at the NID and a home run.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20485001 Thu, 15 May 2008 00:23:07 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484845 d_l : That's a lot of errors! Line 160 says that sync has been up for at least 24 hours and may be more - much more. So line 14 for the last boot time has to be checked to see how much up time has elapsed to collect those error counts.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484845 Wed, 14 May 2008 23:46:47 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484663 snafur : From line 171, stats that looked like they might be relevant:

171 CVL 5 3457081 3451962
172 LCD Tx 0 0 0
173 NCD Tx 0 421 420
174 CVL Tx 0 25362 25331
175 LOF 0 0 0
176 LOS 0 629 627
177 LOSS - - -
178 LOL 0 0 0
179 LPR 0 0 0
180 ES 0 0 0
181 SESL 0 564 564
182 UASL 0 0 0
183 ECL 0 0 0
184 ECSL 0 0 0
185 ECL Tx 0 1189796 1187960

and line 160 was:
160 Time Elapsed 841 86400 86400]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484663 Wed, 14 May 2008 23:15:03 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484557 d_l : The errors could be something on your loop or more likely something on your inside wiring. Maybe you have an impulse noise source such as an arcing motor inside your place?

The AT&T-versioned modems really don't tell you if the errors are steady or not. You have to watch the error counts with an eye on the clock and then compute an average error rate. You can watch the errors accumulate on the stats page as long as there are no re-syncs which will erase that counter or you can look at line 171 (CVL) in the techreadout to monitor the error counts. The 15-minute column CVL tells you how many errors have occurred in the last 15-minute count interval. This resets after 15 minutes. Line 160 tells how many seconds have elapsed out of the 15 minutes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484557 Wed, 14 May 2008 22:55:08 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484475 snafur : So would you think this indicates a further layer one problem to pursue or would this involve an RT or something? How could I tell if the errors are steady or bursty? Would there be something in the log? The line seems perfectly quiet to me right now.

edit: I did a test a few minutes ago and got 1249 down, 306 up, and 25ms latency. Those seem like decent numbers. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484475 Wed, 14 May 2008 22:42:08 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484361 d_l : That is a pretty high CRC count for 24 hours. Maybe an average of 20ish errors/minute. That might reduce your speed test/download throughput from the maximum rate you could normally get. Maybe as much reduction as 10-15% if they are a steady average? Maybe more if they are bursty?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484361 Wed, 14 May 2008 22:22:55 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484239 snafur : Well, it's been about 24 hours and no drops. DT has been reliable and no noise on the line. However, my stats have a high number of CRC errors, it seems. Should I still be concerned?

Line State UP
Modulation ANSI
Data Path fast

To Modem To Internet
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1536 384
SN Margin (dB) 13.0 -
Line Attenuation (dB) 53.5 -
Loss of Signal 2 -
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 37587 193

Thanks again!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484239 Wed, 14 May 2008 22:03:41 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20479301 tonydi :
said by NormanS See Profile :

Once they did a "pair swap"; but they can't do that now that the neighborhood has been conditioned for Uverse.
Well, that was my understanding too, but a couple of weeks ago cable maintenance did exactly that, swapped my pair for another pair. This was on a bbox that had the big warning sticker about not messing with any pairs because of the Lightspeed/Uverse conditioning.

It also turned out I had a bridge tap on my F2, something else that wasn't supposed to happen to these conditioned lines.

I think in AT&T Land there's "best practices" and then there's reality. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20479301 Wed, 14 May 2008 01:40:03 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20479154 NormanS :
said by snafur See Profile :

The cable guy (ATT's term) went to work today and found a connection problem upstream.
Yes; the official term (on the business card one of them left with me) is, "Cable Maintenance". They fixed two of the three POTS problems which caused DSL trouble a couple of years back. Once they did a "pair swap"; but they can't do that now that the neighborhood has been conditioned for Uverse.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20479154 Wed, 14 May 2008 00:44:55 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20479096 snafur : Well, it's a few days later, and my jubilation was misplaced... sync and DT were down by the next day. Another call brought the first tech back on Monday. He claimed to find a splice that needed repair, and pronounced the system "repaired." Within a few hours, the system was down again. Another call to repair and we were told the original guy would come back, but they would also refer this to cable repair. 2 wire guy talked with cable repair guy and determined it was indeed a wire problem. (Scratchy noise when there was DT, and a quick disconnect under load, and an ongoing intermittent problem; bad wire, you think!)

The cable guy (ATT's term) went to work today and found a connection problem upstream. He called it a block splice I think, and said it looked like there might have been some corrosion in there, so he spliced around it.

So far tonight everything is working just fine again. We'll see in the morning and in the next few days with record temps forecasted in the area.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20479096 Wed, 14 May 2008 00:24:58 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468061 snafur : And another day...

Last night, everything seemed OK. DT and noise on the line were clear. Stats on the modem were great. Sync was good until this morning when everything went down again. No DT, and intermittent DSL.(Ironically, there was poor DSL sync even though there was no DT or any noise on the line.) This time the POTS line was dead. No scratchy noise or hum, just dead. Tonight, sync is max and the POTS line is OK. Go Figger.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468061 Mon, 12 May 2008 01:31:08 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20462955 d_l : Looking at your stats, it looks like they improved quite a bit. Your line might be capable of full Pro speeds now. The DMT tool could give you an estimate on that possibility.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20462955 Sat, 10 May 2008 20:24:58 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20462832 tonydi : Great! Do you know exactly what the problem was that the field tech repaired?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20462832 Sat, 10 May 2008 19:51:21 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20462651 snafur : Problem solved!! The line is now quiet and sync seems to be stable. Speeds are back up; here are the stats:

Line State UP
Modulation ANSI
Data Path fast

To Modem To Internet
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1536 384
SN Margin (dB) 15.0 -
Line Attenuation (dB) 52.5 -
Loss of Signal 0 -
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 22 2

Thanks tonydi and d_l for your help! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20462651 Sat, 10 May 2008 18:50:17 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20453173 snafur : Thanks; I'll be back...

The truck rolls on Saturday...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20453173 Thu, 08 May 2008 18:10:04 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20453152 d_l : 611 would be better for POTS problems than AT&T Direct. When you call 611 don't even mention DSL. Let them clear the noises you hear and then see what your DSL is doing afterwards.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20453152 Thu, 08 May 2008 18:07:00 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20453139 snafur : Well, today is a new day... sync dropped shortly after noon and didn't come back for 2 hours. Scratchy and noisy stuff on the line at the NID. Stats at this point:

Line State UP
Modulation ANSI
Data Path fast

To Modem To Internet
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 32 384
SN Margin (dB) 3.5 -
Line Attenuation (dB) 59.5 -
Loss of Signal 0 -
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 557 6

I guess I can call in the line now, but is it better to go through 611 or ATT Direct here?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20453139 Thu, 08 May 2008 18:03:46 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449354 snafur : Well, while trying to pull in the graph, the updated tech readout reported line 70, Gateway Ping Failure and line 80 Failure, too. It's now back to pass for both. I'm thinking this whole thing is a loose wire or a dirty connection causing things to drop or at least get marginal long enough for the switch to close my port loop. ???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449354 Wed, 07 May 2008 23:59:12 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449260 d_l : The chart is pretty useful for the big picture. The individual frequency notches are more for zeroing in on the details.

How do you normally copy an image link with FF on a Mac? That is all you need to do on the chart and paste the link here.

Edit: Glancing through those notches, I think your chart is going to look pretty normal. Your line problem might be an all on/ all off intermittent condition with no obvious intermediate state.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449260 Wed, 07 May 2008 23:38:49 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449186 snafur :
said by d_l See Profile :

Heh. No big loss. ;)
haha. I haven't missed it! I just pulled FF and got a better plot, I just can't figure out how to copy and paste it in here! go figger. The other data came along, though:


Downstream Maxrate (Estimated): 2584
Upstream Maxrate (Estimated): 844

Bit tones with notches/missing bits:

bit(s) 38 163.875 - 168.1875 KHz
bit(s) 40 172.5 - 176.8125 KHz
bit(s) 44 189.75 - 194.0625 KHz
bit(s) 47:48 202.6875 - 211.3125 KHz
bit(s) 51 219.9375 - 224.25 KHz
bit(s) 54:63 232.875 - 276 KHz
bit(s) 65:66 280.3125 - 288.9375 KHz
bit(s) 69:71 297.5625 - 310.5 KHz
bit(s) 73 314.8125 - 319.125 KHz
bit(s) 77 332.0625 - 336.375 KHz
bit(s) 80:81 345 - 353.625 KHz
bit(s) 84 362.25 - 366.5625 KHz
bit(s) 86:93 370.875 - 405.375 KHz
bit(s) 95 409.6875 - 414 KHz
bit(s) 98:99 422.625 - 431.25 KHz
bit(s) 102 439.875 - 444.1875 KHz
bit(s) 109:111 470.0625 - 483 KHz
bit(s) 113 487.3125 - 491.625 KHz
bit(s) 125 539.0625 - 543.375 KHz
bit(s) 134:255 577.875 - 1104 KHz

Does this help or is the graph more important?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449186 Wed, 07 May 2008 23:24:35 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449102 d_l : Heh. No big loss. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449102 Wed, 07 May 2008 23:08:56 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449079 snafur : Unfortunately, IE hasn't been supported on the Mac for many years. The last version won't run on my iMac with Intel core.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449079 Wed, 07 May 2008 23:05:15 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449041 d_l : Maybe try IE too? IE does require a little different save procedure, but it is described in the FAQ.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449041 Wed, 07 May 2008 23:01:32 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449015 snafur : I'm using Camino, the Mac oriented Firefox variant from Mozilla. I'll try Firefox instead.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20449015 Wed, 07 May 2008 22:57:31 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20448969 d_l : It might be due to the browser you are using on the Mac. Whenever there is a weird DMT chart, it is usually due to the browser's handling of the html save.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20448969 Wed, 07 May 2008 22:52:06 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20448909 snafur : Thanks d_l. I read your response in another thread about the SN margin, too. In the meantime, I tested at the NID and all seemed OK. I could not do an extended test but the link has been stable since then. (I have connected my POTS equipment again, too, with all the filters.)

I have updated the modem software to 1.0.0.53, but when I try to use the DMT tool, all I get is a blank graph and limited data:


Downstream Maxrate (Estimated): 1536
Upstream Maxrate (Estimated): 384

Bit tones with notches/missing bits:

bit(s) 1:63 4.3125 - 276 KHz
bit(s) 65:255 280.3125 - 1104 KHz

Could this be because I'm on a Mac? I followed the instructions for saving the Tech Readout as html.

Thanks for your help.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20448909 Wed, 07 May 2008 22:43:08 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20448384 snafur : Sorry if I'm posting too much info, but I did the test at the NID, and line stats aren't much different:

Line State UP
Modulation G.dmt
Data Path fast

To Modem To Internet
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1536 384
SN Margin (dB) 14.0 -
Line Attenuation (dB) 52.5 -
Loss of Signal 0 -
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 2 2]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20448384 Wed, 07 May 2008 21:05:01 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20448376 d_l : I think you have a problem on AT&T's line beyond your NID. That wacky SN margin (SN Margin (dB) 2147483647.0) means your SN margin is a negative number and the bouncing attenuation (from 53.5 to 60.5) has been associated with a short and/or a cross on the pair.

By all means test at your NID. You might also try running the DMT tool on your techreadout results: »SBC DSL FAQ »How can I check for the maximum attainable sync speeds with a 5100b/4100 modem? . You might have to upgrade your firmware to get complete results: »SBC DSL FAQ »Where can I get the latest firmware update for my 5100B? .

If your NID tests results are bad, then you will have to start a trouble thread in AT&T Direct. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20448376 Wed, 07 May 2008 21:03:43 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20448064 snafur : Well, that didn't last long. I power cycled the modem and it has taken about 15 minutes to get sync back. Here is the Stats page from the brief moment it was Up during that time:

Line State UP
Modulation G.dmt
Data Path fast

To Modem To Internet
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 32 384
SN Margin (dB) 2147483647.0 -
Line Attenuation (dB) 60.5 -
Loss of Signal 0 -
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 260 6

Now it's back to:

Line State UP
Modulation G.dmt
Data Path fast

To Modem To Internet
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1536 384
SN Margin (dB) 13.5 -
Line Attenuation (dB) 53.5 -
Loss of Signal 0 -
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 12 2

I'm looking now for a 50 foot cable to run to the NID. Will that length be a problem?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20448064 Wed, 07 May 2008 20:09:30 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20447822 snafur : OK. I've removed all other equipment on the line including the filters so only the modem is plugged in. The CRC errors have jumped to 553 - 1 so I'll power cycle the modem now, too. I'll come back later and let you know how stable things are like this. Thanks for your help.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20447822 Wed, 07 May 2008 19:15:20 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20447540 tonydi : Since it sounds like it drops sync often it will be easier to diagnose with different tests.

Those stats don't look bad enough to drop sync unless those CRC Error numbers change drastically or the SN Margin drops down below about 6 dB. So keep an eye on that stat page and refresh it often so you can monitor those numbers.

If the regular phone service is having any issues at all, that can definitely affect the DSL connection. And you're sure you have everything connecting to the DSL telephone number filtered except the modem? I'd suggest removing everything connected to the line except the modem and see if the sync problem remains.

You might want to also try hooking the modem directly to your NID and see if the sync remains steady there.
»AT&T Southeast Forum FAQ »How do I check modem stats, synch rates & speeds at NID - Residential Housin]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20447540 Wed, 07 May 2008 18:21:18 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20447347 snafur : Thanks, tonydi. Here are the answers, in order.

The package is ATT Express. The modem is the Speedstream 5100b with 5 lights on the front. There is a Linksys WRT54GS plugged into the modem with a static ip address ...1.64. PPPoE is handled by the modem. The modem has been power cycled on occasion or just left on for the line to recover, which it always does eventually. (Indeed it has gone down a couple of times while I'm typing this.)

Normally, the first four lights (Power, Ethernet, DSL and Internet) are steady green, and the Activity light flashes when the packets flow. When the line goes down, the Power and E-net lights stay steady green, the DSL light flashes red for a while, then flashes green for a while and the Internet light goes out. Sometimes the DSL light alternates between flashing red for 5 seconds then green for 5 seconds, back and forth for several minutes (as it is now doing!) Usually, it re-syncs in about 30 seconds.

Listening to the line, it was quiet just now, but has had a slight hum, or some static on occasion (usually not at the same time.) I've checked that the other phones are plugged into the Phone port on the filters and none have been left unfiltered. And we lost Dial Tone only once that we know of. It's not effected by taking a phone off hook, either.

The line stats when it's Up are:

Line State UP
Modulation G.dmt
Data Path fast

To Modem To Internet
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1536 384
SN Margin (dB) 16.0 -
Line Attenuation (dB) 53.0 -
Loss of Signal 0 -
Loss of Frame 0 0
CRC Errors 2 1

Thanks for your help with this! I'll post this now while I have sync. haha. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20447347 Wed, 07 May 2008 17:42:57 EDT Re: [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20443906 tonydi : See the link at the top of the main forum page, where it says:

Please CLICK HERE for what to post to receive help with connectivity issues.

Please click that link and provide as much of the info as you can. That will help speed up the problem solving and hopefully save you the time and trouble of waiting in the Direct queue.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20443906 Wed, 07 May 2008 03:46:07 EDT [Line Problem] random sync loss several times a day http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20443798 snafur : It started a several weeks ago: DSL light flashing red for a minute or so, then sync restored for a while. In the beginning, it was once or twice a day, but now the sync drops several times a day. Checking the audible line quality, most of the time the line is quiet, sometimes the line is scratchy, and sometimes there is a 60 Hz hum. Nothing is consistent. Once, the dial tone was gone and we called it in, but got no feedback from ATT even though DT was restored.

For a few days after DT loss, DSL sync was stable. Then it started getting more unreliable as the days went by; now it drops out many times during the day and night. It happens without warning and can last for several minutes to an hour or so, and has just dropped as I'm typing this (the current link was up for about an hour.)

I'm in a semi rural area about 14k from the CO, but I suspect there's a RT of some sort in between. There is a history of poor POTS service in our area, and I suspect there are not enough good pairs serving the growing number of users in the area. I'd like to contact ATT Direct, but want to go in with all the info they'll need. I have downloaded a few modem logs and have a technician report to submit, but would like advice about the process and other info they'd require so I don't waste anyone's time.

Thanks for any help.
PS, as I wait for sync so I can post this, I'm on ATT Yahoo in MRY county but out of the Watsonville CO, using a Speedstream 5100b. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20443798 Wed, 07 May 2008 02:41:32 EDT