Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20446089 en Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:36:38 EDT Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:36:38 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20448208 VansHSI : Tier 1 network is not defined by being a global network.

The best definition of a tier 1 network is one that can reach every other network on the Internet without purchasing IP transit.

That does not include Time Warner as they purchase transit from Sprint Nextel/Level 3. I'm not saying they have a bum network at all but they pay for transit for a reason, because they can't do it.

There is a reason why they don't offer full service based solutions to major class enterprises, because they can't do it from a national and global perspective.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20448208 Wed, 07 May 2008 20:36:09 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446965 JamesPC : Yep, here in Cali it will stay on the rr.com network if the destination is in the state. If not it will hop on the Level3 network for long haul.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446965 Wed, 07 May 2008 16:37:44 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446873 hottboiinnc : That's your market. The Ohio Markets are all peered together. You should know by now that everything TWC does is by market or by state. Not my some guy sitting in NYC or VA. And TWC does do commercial web hosting.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446873 Wed, 07 May 2008 16:21:27 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446661 rahvin112 : Presenting speculation as fact is like putting lipstick on pig. You don't have any idea what the dollar amount of each of the other 22% of the investment was. For all you know it could have been 20% google and 2% everyone else or even 21$% venture capital and 1% google, time warner, comcast. You simply don't have the facts and asserting your speculation as fact is frankly stupid.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446661 Wed, 07 May 2008 15:45:11 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446652 patcat88 : TWC and CC dont serve datacenters, and they don't have commercial web hosting on them, and you can't buy their bandwidth in peering hotels, and they don't sell bandwidth on 95th percentile, and even Comcast admits, and personally I've seen on traceroutes on TWC, that CC and TWC don't even link their own markets together on their internal network, I see stuff go out on my TWC modem, go onto Level 3, then onto another TWC modem in a different market.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446652 Wed, 07 May 2008 15:44:22 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446493 hottboiinnc : Just because TWC and CC arent global doesnt mean their not a Tier1 provider in the US. they own their own network; most of their traffic stays on their network. you can easily get a fiber connection from TWC or Comcast and only take a couple hops to the Internet to where you're going.

You don't need a global network to be tier1.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446493 Wed, 07 May 2008 15:21:41 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446479 hottboiinnc : the deals with TWC being at Sprint cell sites was an agreement well before this. Several years ago in fact when TWC started rolling out Digital Phone. And well before Clearwire is where they're are today. Everyone here bases things off the news articles and PR pages for things that happened even 2 years ago which you're not going to find in a PR that was written for a totally different product say--even 2 days ago.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446479 Wed, 07 May 2008 15:18:42 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446414 EPS : Tier one doesn't mean you have easy fiber access in all areas, though.

For example, here is a map of the tier 1 AOL Transit Data Network (ATDN's website is hilariously outdated, so it may have changed since 2003): »www.atdn.net/images/usa.gif]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446414 Wed, 07 May 2008 15:07:43 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446370 patcat88 :
said by EPS See Profile :

...and a hit for the telcos- one wonders how much they get from Sprint for T1 lines to their cell sites, which could now be replaced with cableco lines.
From the PR releases, the Cable Coes wont have anything to do with Sprint except with Sprint EVDO/Sprint Voice being a backup and filling in coverage gaps with new clearwire (implying there will be dual mode Sprint CDMA/Clearwire WiMAX handsets branded for Cable Cos). I havn't seen any formal cooperation to improve Sprint CDMA network with cable cos, but Sprint has done backhaul by cable cos before

»cellularpcs.com/gallery/displayi···&pos=221]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446370 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:59:05 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446354 rawgerz : Microwave? Are you saying they're going to use the ISM band to backhaul towers?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446354 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:56:44 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446338 patcat88 : Sprint is a Tier 1, TWC and Comcast aren't, so if your looking for cheap bandwidth for the new Clearwire, goto Sprint.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446338 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:53:50 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446329 hottboiinnc : Sprint already uses cable co lines. They have a deal in this area with TWC. TWC uses them for Digital Phone they use TWC for fiber. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446329 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:52:04 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446318 hottboiinnc : without TWC or comcast or even Brighthouse this project wouldnt be going anywhere. Clearwire cant do it. their funding is limited and are were not planning any new cities until this project. Google is only in for the stock and to get more people on Google Apps.

So it is fair to say without CC and TWC this would not have the cash. They gave the most in cash. Sprint just gave what they already had. a network that could not operate and a brand name that won't be kept that they spent $$$$$ on getting out. Without the $$$$ to get the network rolling you have nothing. You need the $$$$ to make it work-even if you had the spectrum and tower sites and all the equipment.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446318 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:50:39 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446302 EPS : The 51% is the amount of the new Clearwire that Sprint will own, coming with it a controlling number of seats of the new company's board.

Actually, Comcast/TWC/Google/etc. will only own less than a quarter of the company. From what I've seen of the breakup, it goes something like this:
51% - Sprint
27% - CLWR shareholders
22% - Everyone else]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446302 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:48:01 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446284 xenophon : Correct, Sprint couldn't fund 100% of the rollout, but they probably contributed more than 51%. It is incorrect to state that Comcast/TWC had the largest contribution. It is however fair to say that all of the players allow the rollout to continue as Sprint couldn't do it themselves.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446284 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:45:18 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446279 EPS : Yes, TWC and Comcast fiber is a big benefit here... Sprint's nationwide wired network is nothing to dismiss lightly, but in a lot of areas where TWC and Comcast are the local cable company this will make the new Clearwire's life that much easier.

...and a hit for the telcos- one wonders how much they get from Sprint for T1 lines to their cell sites, which could now be replaced with cableco lines.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446279 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:44:20 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446247 hottboiinnc : Clearwire already uses Microwave at many of their locations. but it can only handle so much. But with TWC and Comcast they can drop fiber direct to the tower and avoid costs to all LECs no matter who it is. The key to this would be to make a good share of the network hard wired and all go into those locations where Fiber is not an option direct to the Tower by microwave with that the network should not have a problem.

But with the microwave- it only goes so far as well. Especially when Clearwire's service is so spread out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446247 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:39:12 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446219 hottboiinnc : they may have the spectrum and the whole Xohm unit but remember Sprint is the one that didnt have the $$$ to start off with to make it any further. Pull TWC and Comcast and Sprint will be begging someone else for more money.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446219 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:34:56 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446190 tc1uscg : Don't forget backhaul to the tower is one of the holdups. T1's to the tower can't handle the load for the speeds promised. Microwave will not only bypass this hurdle, but avoid costs for access charges, something that will drive down VZ AND AT&T's earnings even more. Sprint already has lots of backbone to handle the load and speed, it's the last mile that will cause the speed bump. That appears to have been a issue since the planning stages of WiMAX.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446190 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:29:46 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446159 xenophon :
said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

The biggest investor of this new company is Comcast and TWC combined. Sprint can own 51% but in the end its who brought the most money.
Um, Sprint's piece is multi-$B worth of spectrum that Clearwire didn't have and the whole Xohm unit. Sprint owns the bulk of the assets. Sprint's overall contribution is likely over 51%.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446159 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:23:52 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446141 hottboiinnc : the thing is now they have money from the two largest cable companies and access to a TON of fiber for backhaul and to the 'net. Speeds should not be a problem since with TWC they still have access to Level3, and the ADTN (AOL Network), and Comcast as their own peering network. Speeds should be great with the new money and the backhaul without a problem.

But Bit and P2P will have a clause in the AUP/TOS you can bet on that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446141 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:20:28 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446124 desreversti : I also do hope that Sprint's consumer-friendly data policies do transfer over. One of my current roommates had Clearwire when he lived in Copperas Cove, TX. Although it started off decently, the speeds started to plummet drastically after the first month and the connection constantly dropped. Hopefully those problems won't exist in the "new" Clearwire, but I'm not raising my hopes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446124 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:17:33 EDT Re: Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446089 hottboiinnc : The biggest investor of this new company is Comcast and TWC combined. Sprint can own 51% but in the end its who brought the most money. Piss them off and watch the money walk. Clearwire has different logos all over the place i've seen but their main one is the missing "i" that they've always used.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446089 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:09:42 EDT Sprint, or Clearwire? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446021 EPS : One wonders which ideology will prevail here- from what I've heard (never had the service) Clearwire is known for restrictions on broadband access the likes of which are rarely seen outside of Canada, worse than US companies like Comcast. Sprint (never had them either) is known for having consumer-friendly policies like "unlimited is actually unlimited", though they have crappy reputations in other things... "The new" Clearwire is 51% Sprint-owned, but my guess it'll just stay in its current route- corporate inertia is a powerful thing.

By the way, I wonder if Clearwire has changed its logo- I've seen a different one on some other sites, which has some circular thing, and without the missing line in the letter i.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20446021 Wed, 07 May 2008 13:55:41 EDT