Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill in Connecticut Chat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20450574 en Thu, 08 Jan 2009 01:31:18 EDT Thu, 08 Jan 2009 01:31:18 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20544581 P Ness :
said by ThirdShifter See Profile :

It is sad that people still think global warming is a myth, and even sadder when people who believes that it is happening is doing nothing to help reduce it.

Fortunately people in hartford realize some people in this state are pathetic and are doing something to force these people to change their lifestyle.

Kudos.
Its sad that people thing that our CO2 > Sun's effect on earth

»www.boston.com/bostonglobe/edito···ming_go/

whats even better is for every non supporting article about global warming you see 20x those that scream the terrors of global warming.

"The latest data . . . say that earth has passed the peak of its warmer period, and a fairly cold spell will set in quite soon, by 2012."

but these people are called silly
these stats are called flukes, blips...oh you cant dictate predictions off two years of data...but just 20 is just fine

"Carbon dioxide is not to blame for global climate change," Sorokhtin writes in an essay for Novosti. "Solar activity is many times more powerful than the energy produced by the whole of humankind." In a recent paper for the Danish National Space Center, physicists Henrik Svensmark and Eigil Friis-Christensen concur: "The sun . . . appears to be the main forcing agent in global climate change," they write.

And here is the best part
Given the number of worldwide cold events, it is no surprise that 2007 didn't turn out to be the warmest ever. In fact, 2007's global temperature was essentially the same as that in 2006 - and 2005, and 2004, and every year back to 2001. The record set in 1998 has not been surpassed. For nearly a decade now, there has been no global warming. Even though atmospheric carbon dioxide continues to accumulate - it's up about 4 percent since 1998 - the global mean temperature has remained flat. That raises some obvious questions about the theory that CO2 is the cause of climate change.

or how about these 400 people
»epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?···dc2d02cb

never heard about that report from fox news huh?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20544581 Tue, 27 May 2008 07:27:40 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20527321 anon :
said by gregamy See Profile :

I'm really beginning to think that the best way to get this out of our system is to go ahead and let the Lefties have their way. I'm serious: let's all step out of the way and let them implement each and every little bit of "change" they want, be it trivial or significant. Let's let society see exactly what's involved in this centrally-planned utopia and they can decide for themselves (assuming, of ...
One phrase comes to mind: "Atlas Shrugged" ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20527321 Fri, 23 May 2008 02:20:43 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20505371 ThirdShifter :
said by pandora See Profile :

said by ThirdShifter See Profile :

Also, i'm not sure what communism has to do with this thread.
You put up the first and only post endorsing communism in this thread, and now have the audacity to ask why it's being discussed in the thread?
I'm sorry but i forgot why i stop posting in this board awhile ago. My bad. Have a great week.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20505371 Mon, 19 May 2008 09:34:53 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20505164 pandora :
said by ThirdShifter See Profile :

Also, i'm not sure what communism has to do with this thread.
You put up the first and only post endorsing communism in this thread, and now have the audacity to ask why it's being discussed in the thread?
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20505164 Mon, 19 May 2008 08:33:56 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20505009 gregamy :
said by ThirdShifter See Profile :

...i'm not sure what communism has to do with this thread...lets create a law making those who refuse to volunteer their part be required by law to do so.
Um, "dood", one of the main tenets of communism (especially the "popular" forms such as Leninism/Stalism/Marxism, and to a lesser extent socialism) is forcing people to do things against their own will (or advantage) for the betterment of The People and/or The State...

Scary stuff, this...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20505009 Mon, 19 May 2008 07:04:46 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20504183 ThirdShifter :
said by harlenm See Profile :

That's the biggest oxymoron I've ever read. Government knows how to use logic.

The only thing government knows how to do is rape us out of our hard earned money by taxing us to death and saying it's for the better good. Anyone who puts trust in the government helping the common man is very naive. The only people that are in their best interest is themselves.
We get the government we deserve. They weren't born to be senators or presidents. We put them there.

Also, i'm not sure what communism has to do with this thread. When I say the government to force people to change, it should read, the majority of people in CT agrees that there are some residents in this state that can't co-operate to make it successful, hence lets create a law making those who refuse to volunteer their part be required by law to do so.

If you feel this is not the majorities call, then you should voice your opinion in the next election.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20504183 Sun, 18 May 2008 23:16:33 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20503891 gregamy :
said by ThirdShifter See Profile :

I'd take that over a cross any days. At-least they know how to use logic.
Yeah, I agree: Stalin and Lenin were pretty darn good on that "logic" thing...

I'm really beginning to think that the best way to get this out of our system is to go ahead and let the Lefties have their way. I'm serious: let's all step out of the way and let them implement each and every little bit of "change" they want, be it trivial or significant. Let's let society see exactly what's involved in this centrally-planned utopia and they can decide for themselves (assuming, of course, that the government by that point hasn't decided that ALL people in this state "are pathetic" and "force them to change their [right to vote]"... after all, we're preferring the hammer and sickle here, may as well go whole hog...let them have their way, let's have our Kumbaya moment, and then they all get tossed on their "collective" asses. Or lynched (same thing...)

It worked in 93-94 with the HillaryCare thing, it's working with the ethanol/starvation mandates, gas/diesel/oil prices are positively BASEMENT bargains with all the restrictions that have been implemented over the last three decades, so I'm quite confident it'll work with all these other wacky ideas. The best thing in the long run is to let the loonies run the asylum, and bring their true ideals to the antiseptic light of day. Why not? It's better than this Chinese water torture of drip-drip-drip, bit by bit by bit. Let's get it out of our system in one big collective orgasm so we can all have a smoke and go back to reality.

The big difference here is that I can personally weather out this short-lived storm or, at worst, I can afford to move somewhere else. So, for me, it's pure entertainment.

But, what about you...? What about your children...?

Hey, just sayin'...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20503891 Sun, 18 May 2008 22:18:01 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20501897 harlenm :
said by ThirdShifter See Profile :

said by Glenn See Profile :

said by ThirdShifter See Profile :

Fortunately people in hartford realize some people in this state are pathetic and are doing something to force these people to change their lifestyle.

Kudos.
God help us. Is there a hammer and sickle flying over the capital?
I'd take that over a cross any days. At-least they know how to use logic.
That's the biggest oxymoron I've ever read. Government knows how to use logic.

The only thing government knows how to do is rape us out of our hard earned money by taxing us to death and saying it's for the better good. Anyone who puts trust in the government helping the common man is very naive. The only people that are in their best interest is themselves. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20501897 Sun, 18 May 2008 13:50:33 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20495008 ThirdShifter :
said by Glenn See Profile :

said by ThirdShifter See Profile :

Fortunately people in hartford realize some people in this state are pathetic and are doing something to force these people to change their lifestyle.

Kudos.
God help us. Is there a hammer and sickle flying over the capital?
I'd take that over a cross any days. At-least they know how to use logic.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20495008 Fri, 16 May 2008 18:55:15 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20493945 pandora :
said by Glenn See Profile :

God help us. Is there a hammer and sickle flying over the capital?
There should be. I got a letter today from the Connecticut DMV advising me that my vehicle requires its every 2 year emissions inspection by October of this year. Only problem is it was already emissions inspected last August. Calling DMV got me half an hour on hold then disconnected.

After all these years, Connecticut still can't manage it's vehicle emissions testing, imagine giving them control of our electrical power production.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20493945 Fri, 16 May 2008 15:34:38 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20492942 Glenn :
said by ThirdShifter See Profile :

Fortunately people in hartford realize some people in this state are pathetic and are doing something to force these people to change their lifestyle.

Kudos.
God help us. Is there a hammer and sickle flying over the capital?
--
Legal ATVing in Connecticut?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20492942 Fri, 16 May 2008 12:37:57 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20492889 pandora : I think we have stated our positions, further discussion will be repeats of what has been said. I respectfully disagree with your opinion.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20492889 Fri, 16 May 2008 12:28:04 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20492836 pleekmo : This thread concerns a bill which may be passed by the State of Connecticut legislature which concerns an issue that happens to be of global import. Covering your eyes and ears and humming loudly that there is no problem will not make it go away. The political leaders of this state are willing to do their part to assist in mitigating this issue. If you feel that this bill is ineffectual or inadvised then you may spend your time more wisely contacting the Representative for your political district and attempt convince him/her/it to withdraw support for this bill.

I believe that items concerning the validity of the anthropogenic global warming issue may be germane to this thread, as it would appear that many have doubts concerning this.
--
HCN: Because you deserve a rest!

Proud member of the Free Omelas Liberation Front.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20492836 Fri, 16 May 2008 12:20:53 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20491701 pandora : To help remove discussion of non-Connecticut issues from this thread (read as "global" issues). Please consider posting at a new thread in an appropriate forum at - »How much are we willing to pay to reduce CO2 emissions?

:)
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20491701 Fri, 16 May 2008 08:29:47 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20491393 pleekmo : No, nothing the people of the state of Connecticut will do to curb anthropogenic global warming actually stop this global warming. But it would be a beginning. It would be a first step on the way to ensuring that humanity does not alter the global climate to the point that the Earth is uninhabitable to most or, even, all life. Curbing global warming will require the effort of all humankind. But in order for us to attain the all, someone must be first

The women's suffrage movement did not immediately result in voting privileges for women. Nor did the civil rights movement immediately confer basic human rights to blacks. Each of these took time and some of these movements are still works in progress. So will it be with the effort to curb human carbon dioxide emissions in the effort to prevent irreparable damage to our ecology.

We may never know if the effort to curb global warming was a success or even know ultimately whether it is/was really needed. But we will certainly know when it was a failure -- but by that time it will be too late.
--
HCN: Because you deserve a rest!

Proud member of the Free Omelas Liberation Front.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20491393 Fri, 16 May 2008 05:40:11 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490667 pandora : The fact is, the populations of China, India, and Indonesia are not going to be living in Connecticut or be subject to Connecticut law. To proceed as if this were possible really isn't sensible.

You seem to be trying to obviate the problem of Connecticut not having control of its population size and thus not being able to fully control CO2 emissions. Another issue, is that of commerce. Any party is free to conduct commerce through our state without significant interference, subjecting federally protected commerce to our CO2 emissions law may not be possible. Additionally, other states may purchase power from us as an example, increasing our CO2 load due to outside demand.

I suggest that Connecticut is unable to reasonably control its CO2 emissions, and that the extra costs in imposing this mandate upon our citizens will create needless hardship.

If CO2 emissions are to be controlled, it seems to me more a federal matter than one for our single state of Connecticut.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490667 Thu, 15 May 2008 23:49:14 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490606 ThirdShifter : Alright, I'll play along and lets blame global warming on new immigrants to CT.

Now, how is reducing emission by all resident of CT be a bad thing, more so now that our population is getting out of control?

If we can educate and enforce laws that will help cut out states emission, wouldn't that be a win win situation for all?

Now, Lets imagine a scenario where all chinas, indonesia and India's population was to come to ct. and abide our laws, global warming would be shot down in a day.

So with proper laws in place things should get better.
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Saya anak malaysia]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490606 Thu, 15 May 2008 23:34:06 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490449 pandora : Not wanting to start an argument, but yes immigration is a factor in our ever increasing energy consumption which Connecticut is powerless to do anything about.

Global warming gave us a habitable Connecticut, Europe, and generally most of the world where humanity currently lives. Without global warming, the world would be an awful place for humanity. Global warming started and has gone on far longer than human industrialization. If you don't understand this, you don't understand earths history. Global warming has been great for humans, in particular this long warm period we have been enjoying. Humans have established culture and civilizations like never before in our history. Thanks to global warming.

Whatever Connecticut does, if it's population increases which is currently only happening via immigration then it will not be possible to significantly cut CO2 emissions.

My point is Connecticut is trying to mandate on itself a solution to a problem it doesn't entirely have control of.

While I understand as a CO2 emitting relatively new immigrant to the United States and Connecticut in particular you may be personally sensitive to my statement about immigration, that really shouldn't be the basis for your hurling personal insults in my opinion. However your presence here, and the presence of countless others, increases our CO2 production daily. Thus proving my point.

Energy consumption per capita is down in the U.S. over the past generation, indigenous population is also in decline. Population only increases, as does CO2 load via constant immigration into the U.S. In much of the world, the only thing more loved than hating the United States is the desire to live here.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490449 Thu, 15 May 2008 23:02:34 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490392 ThirdShifter : Pandora,

Global warming is now immigrants fault? Long after CT thawed out, your grandparents immigrated to this state. Not before. Your argument is completely and utterly garbage and quite frankly embarrassing. Please rethink your ideology and pick your battles appropriately.

Global warming is here and whatever you do directly impacts it, Irregardless of what indonesia do. To shamelessly blame other nations for our own shortcomings is a cowardliness and I hope you will soon realize that. It is not indonesians, chinese or Indians that are buying 4 cars per-households. It is us, Americans and residents of this country who are enjoying much of the wealth of earth, It was us too who had expedite global warming. It was us, the ill informed.

Now that we know, shouldn't we react with urgency?

I simply cannot accept your logic of blaming others when it is us who can really put a dent to this global issue. Without CTs and USAs involvement curbing global warming would be impossible.
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Saya anak malaysia]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490392 Thu, 15 May 2008 22:51:41 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20488192 pandora : I KNOW global warming is real, my state not so long ago was covered in ice. Global warming has been the best thing to happen to the human race ever.

The questioning is partly over CO2 emissions, which represent a very small percentage of our atmosphere and is a very weak greenhouse gas as well as the wisdom of a single state unilaterally putting mandates upon itself. Currently China is the largest source of greenhouse gas. Whatever Connecticut does, won't matter to China, India, Indonesia, Mexico or many other developing countries.

I also mentioned, if you bothered to read my post, that our immigration policy prevents meeting any significant CO2 cuts. Our per capita energy consumption is down, only via immigration is our net energy demand up. Unless and until we get a handle on immigration, net energy consumption in the U.S. will continue to increase. This is something Connecticut as a state has no control over.

I'd remind you this is a Connecticut chat forum, not a world problem solving forum. My point was that Connecticut acting unilaterally will do nothing to help the world, but will harm many in the state.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20488192 Thu, 15 May 2008 16:07:21 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20488166 pandora : If we're serious about eliminating CO2 emissions, we'll have to nuke China and India then turn out the lights and move to caves.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20488166 Thu, 15 May 2008 16:02:12 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486507 gregamy :
said by ThirdShifter See Profile :

Fortunately people in hartford realize some people in this state are pathetic and are doing something to force these people to change their lifestyle.
Ja wohl, Herr Komrade...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486507 Thu, 15 May 2008 10:48:57 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486492 ThirdShifter : It is sad that people still think global warming is a myth, and even sadder when people who believes that it is happening is doing nothing to help reduce it.

Fortunately people in hartford realize some people in this state are pathetic and are doing something to force these people to change their lifestyle.

Kudos.
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Saya anak malaysia]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486492 Thu, 15 May 2008 10:46:10 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483347 gregamy : Ah, and it gets even better!

Today, the Interior Department has decided to list the polar bear as "threatened" due to "the decline in Arctic sea ice from global warming".

»www.breitbart.com/article.php?id···rticle=1

I kid you not.

If the polar bear is protected by the Endangered Species Act (it now is) under the pretense of its environment being threatened (it now is) due to the effects of "global warming" (it now is), then *any* changes that increase the probability of "global warming" (read: *anything* that increases the output of carbon dioxide, i.e., everything) de facto affects the environment of the polar bear, ergo comes under the control and approval of the U.S. Interior Department.

Chew on that one for a moment.

Now, the announcement came with a bunch of caveats about what is under the auspices of this announcement and what is not, but a show of hands from those that think those "et cetera" points will stick in the future? Kinda like the "allow us to enact a secondary seatbelt law, we promise not to make it a primary offense" kinda thing?

Hoo, boy. The next couple of decades are gonna be fun, fun, fun. Anyone that thought asbestos and mesothelioma were a cash cow for the legal industry, better hang on to your hats! You thought the whole snail darter thing was a big mess? You think $4/gal gas is high? You ain't seen nothin' yet, brother. You're probably going to see major court battles over the silliest things, all in the new-age guise of protecting the polar bear.

Like the guy above wrote, "The sad thing is you guys won't pay the price, but your children's children will..."

Hey, just sayin'...

GA]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483347 Wed, 14 May 2008 19:24:02 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477945 billh491 : 5,000 feet of ice sat on our state 15,000 years ago now THAT's global warming! Those cavemen's camp fires I guess caused them to melt.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477945 Tue, 13 May 2008 20:50:03 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20475932 signmeuptoo :
said by gregamy See Profile :

said by signmeuptoo See Profile :

...throwing insults at me just proves what kind of people [you are], too.
No point in getting offended. We're mostly attacking your silly ideas, not your personality. We don't think you're any more mental than, say, the guys that used to stand on the street corner with signs reading "Repent! The End of the World is Nigh!", for example.

Dude, know what's nice about the United States versus, say, your beloved socialist Germany? We're free people. We're free to believe what we want. Right or wrong, we can believe that the sky is pink and that daffodils come out of an opossum's butts, and probably not get a second glance.

And, it's even codified in the First Amendment to the United Stated Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." You are free to believe whatever religious fervor you want, without hassles from the government. But, guess what? So am I. If you want to worship on the alter of Mother Earth, have at it. If I want to worship on the alter of the "Supreme Being of Internal Combustion (Presented by Mobil 1)", I can.

But guess what, Part Two? Neither one of us has the right to mandate those beliefs on the other. And neither one of us has the right to be free of disagreement or ridicule from the other. You are free to come in to this topic and give us your opinion; we'll all read it. But don't expect us to accept it as our own gospel and change our evil ways.

I'm not going to debate the merits/dismerits of the Church of Global Warming; frankly, I don't care. I personally think you're bonkers and/or brainwashed, and if it really bothers you that a total stranger doesn't automatically believe what you believe, especially when that belief is filled with apocalyptic futures that will happen if we don't change our evil ways, then that's a pretty sure sign that it's a religion. And you're entitled to it. And I'm entitled to be free from it.

As long as you practice your religion in private and don't force it on me, I'm good with it. Have fun. But when you start cramming it in my face, mandating that I believe - or worse, start using the power of the government to force it upon me by taking away my free will to make my own informed decisions - NOW we gots a problem.

Try to convince me all you want, and you can sleep well knowing that someday you'll surely get to tell me "see, I told you so." But you've no right to take it any further than that... - GA
That's quite a rant without ANY scientific or rational content, but that's ok. The massive majority of the world's scientists know better than you guys, and guess who I am going to listen to. I have read and watched my share on the topic, so you guys are just dead wrong. But as is typical with extreme conservatives, you can't handle someone disagreeing with you and stoop to being mean and ugly. Rush Limbaugh, the loud mouthed, insulting, drug addict is a perfect example. He's perfectly ignorant and flaunts it.

The sad thing is you guys won't pay the price, but your children's children will...
--
You know your life has gotten "DICEY" when it turns into an episode of LOST, like my ex wife, who I swear is one of "The Others". Cancer and other diseases kill fellow members here at DSLR! Easy: Join us in Teams Helix and Discovery to save the world!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20475932 Tue, 13 May 2008 14:27:08 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474900 pandora : You bring up an interesting point, much of environmentalism as practiced in the U.S. is more of a religious faith based belief system than a scientific fact based belief system. I'd love to see someone challenge some of the pseudo science our kids are forced to learn in court.

My daughter was prevented from handing in a paper about global warming, indicating it was good in that Connecticut was once covered with glaciers and uninhabitable. Her teacher informed us in a letter that Connecticut was never covered with glaciers. This is the level of science we currently get in our public school system. To get a passing grade she had to write a report about how awful global warming is.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474900 Tue, 13 May 2008 11:22:12 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474248 gregamy :
said by signmeuptoo See Profile :

...throwing insults at me just proves what kind of people [you are], too.
No point in getting offended. We're mostly attacking your silly ideas, not your personality. We don't think you're any more mental than, say, the guys that used to stand on the street corner with signs reading "Repent! The End of the World is Nigh!", for example.

Dude, know what's nice about the United States versus, say, your beloved socialist Germany? We're free people. We're free to believe what we want. Right or wrong, we can believe that the sky is pink and that daffodils come out of an opossum's butts, and probably not get a second glance.

And, it's even codified in the First Amendment to the United Stated Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." You are free to believe whatever religious fervor you want, without hassles from the government. But, guess what? So am I. If you want to worship on the alter of Mother Earth, have at it. If I want to worship on the alter of the "Supreme Being of Internal Combustion (Presented by Mobil 1)", I can.

But guess what, Part Two? Neither one of us has the right to mandate those beliefs on the other. And neither one of us has the right to be free of disagreement or ridicule from the other. You are free to come in to this topic and give us your opinion; we'll all read it. But don't expect us to accept it as our own gospel and change our evil ways.

I'm not going to debate the merits/dismerits of the Church of Global Warming; frankly, I don't care. I personally think you're bonkers and/or brainwashed, and if it really bothers you that a total stranger doesn't automatically believe what you believe, especially when that belief is filled with apocalyptic futures that will happen if we don't change our evil ways, then that's a pretty sure sign that it's a religion. And you're entitled to it. And I'm entitled to be free from it.

As long as you practice your religion in private and don't force it on me, I'm good with it. Have fun. But when you start cramming it in my face, mandating that I believe - or worse, start using the power of the government to force it upon me by taking away my free will to make my own informed decisions - NOW we gots a problem.

Try to convince me all you want, and you can sleep well knowing that someday you'll surely get to tell me "see, I told you so." But you've no right to take it any further than that... - GA]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474248 Tue, 13 May 2008 08:49:15 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473713 anon : It's rather simple: I stopped trying to find any logical reason for this nation's self-destructive legislative choices. The answer is that environmentalists simply hate America, Capitalism, science and the betterment of mankind. They want to see us living in caves, once again. Only now, does "global warming" make sense.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473713 Tue, 13 May 2008 02:59:15 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473157 signmeuptoo : These scientists HAVE been using scientific methods. You all are in denial. And throwing insults at me just proves what kind of people, too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473157 Mon, 12 May 2008 23:27:50 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20472226 mcevoys : >>The consensus at the labs

Concensus is *not* a scientific methodology.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20472226 Mon, 12 May 2008 20:29:39 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469586 Glenn :
said by signmeuptoo See Profile :

Surely we are as good as the German people, no?
"But mom, all my friends are doing it..."

"If all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do the same?"

:D
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Legal ATVing in Connecticut?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469586 Mon, 12 May 2008 12:14:54 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469031 pandora : You are welcome to move to Connecticut and enjoy our crusade against CO2. My opinion is that higher taxes and fuel bills look better when viewed from Tennessee.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469031 Mon, 12 May 2008 10:22:51 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468837 gregamy : ::Yawn::

Greg, who's installed solar panels (because they make economic sense), drives a 15 mpg diesel Excursion when necessary, and who's personally lived through:

- 3 tornadoes
- 5 hurricanes
- 2 earthquakes
- 1 drought
- 2 floods
- 3 major blizzards

...and is fully convinced that crying in fear in front of the TV network news and living in a cave with a candle for heat while hiding under the buffalo skin sheets is no way to "live". And, is throughly convinced that all folks like the above are flat-out mental, regardless of political, technical, or religious affiliation or where their "heart" is...and he becomes TRULY fearful when we start talking about giving up our rights, choices, opportunities based on Orwellian "consensus"...and knows that we're BETTER than the German people, that we actually think and make reasonable choices for ourselves, and thus we don't fall for this Chicken Little crap...

Hey, just sayin'... ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468837 Mon, 12 May 2008 09:39:02 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468348 signmeuptoo : I used to work at Sandia National Labs. The consensus at the labs, the HUGE majority, are CERTAIN that global warming is manmade and that global temps are going up as much as or more than 4 degrees and if it continues, it can lead to extinction of life.

You who are conservatives are welcome to think what you want, but the massive and overwhelming consensus in the scientific community is that we have entered into a crises, perhaps the worst crises to humanity ever.

I used to be a conservative that laughed at it my own self. Then I went to work at the labs and my political convictions were shaken at the core. Yes, now I am liberal, but only on principles.

So go ahead, deny it is happening, it's only your children and grand children's lives, right?

Why shouldn't Connecticut move unilaterally? Most of Europe already has done so, Japan has done so, California is doing so... It's a question of acting responsibly.

Besides, going "green" doesn't have to be costly in the long term. We need laws helping induce people to install solar panels, if every home had solar generation we could easily reduce carbon emissions so much it might help.

I am almost 50. Weather disasters are on the rise, I can see it, even if the rest of you don't. You up there in CT are lucky, I live in the Tornado belt. Every major storm that comes through leaves me in fear for my life now. A tornado touched down only a few miles from me here just a few days ago. We are seeing more tornadoes and fiercer ones at that. We will also continue to see a greater frequency of mega disaster hurricanes. As the ocean heats up, these hurricanes will get more and more fierce. Eventually we may need a category 6 for hurricanes. Such hurricanes would wipe out all life in its path.

I don't know how many of you who are denying this issue have lived through tornadoes and hurricanes, but I have lived through both, near misses within visible distance tornadoes and I've lived through the eye of a hurricane. Unless you experience such a thing, you can't comprehend it.

We have just had the two hottest, most dry summers on record here in TN these last two years. It has been sheer hell living in the heat (as with most poor folks here, we do not have aircon, someone tried to help us with that issue, but the machine they gave us does not work).

I've slept in 130 degree heat, and let me tell you, it is inhuman (back when living in the desert with no cooling whatsoever). Generally, I would go through about 3 or 4 gallons of water a day just for perspiration. What is going to happen to the poor folks who still live where I did that also have no AC when temps go up higher? 130 will kill you, I thanked God when I got out of there!!!

I am sorry, I know I am NOT popular with my stance on this issue, but I know in my heart it IS the right stance. We are in serious danger. Just saying things haven't happened before doesn't make it not happen now. As for the ozone layer, it has been damaged and at times a huge gaping hole HAS existed over a large part of the planet.

If I am confronted with the requirement of making a choice on this issue between you you lay folks say or what the scientists at The Labs say where I used to work, guess who I am going to listen to? They have the real world knowledge and skills, and most of them are very conservative in personality, not the kind of people to yell "Alarm ALARM!", but they ARE yelling it now!

One only needs to read our more popular scientific journals, such as Scientific American, to learn the truth.

I agree that devastating the residents of the state or chasing away industry isn't too grand an idea, but that is where being smart and doing smart things with smart solutions comes in to play.

In Germany they enacted laws which made it much easier for people to go solar and wind, and it has proven wildly successful, I understand up to a third of energy production in Germany is or is about to be green, though my memory might be off a little on that one. There are farmers, land owners, and highway stretches filled with solar arrays and people are now making money, having paid off their solar arrays already, rather than costing them! It took will power and determination and vision, but in Germany it IS working.

Surely we are as good as the German people, no?
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You know your life has gotten "DICEY" when it turns into an episode of LOST, like my ex wife, who I swear is one of "The Others". Cancer and other diseases kill fellow members here at DSLR! Easy: Join us in Teams Helix and Discovery to save the world!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468348 Mon, 12 May 2008 04:22:35 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20457381 Glenn :
said by pleekmo See Profile :

said by Glenn See Profile :

Are you willing to bet that we will not reach a runaway greenhouse?
Yep!

In the 1970's, we were scared into thinking the entire Northeast would be a treeless moonscape due to acid rain by the 1990's (or thereabouts).

In the 1980's we were told the hole in the ozone layer was going to create a giant microwave effect and we'd all be cooked by the year 2000 (or thereabouts).

How's that saying go? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Try to fool me a third time....don't bother because I'm not listening. :D
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Legal ATVing in Connecticut?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20457381 Fri, 09 May 2008 14:11:02 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20456871 bennor : And while reducing our carbon footprint/greenhouse emissions is a good idea it won't do much good (gasp) if there is no one left in the state of Connecticut other than the politicians in Hartford due to the taxes and fees they assess to try and reduce greenhouse emissions. There needs to be a realistic balance that can bring business into CT (so you know those guys up in Hartford can bring tax us more so they can continue to spend more) and to satisfy the "greenies" and tree huggers in this state.

Also we in the US can reduce all of our greenhouse gas emissions all we'd like but it won't do much good if other countries surpass us. Oh wait, China already has. »www.physorg.com/news127495011.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20456871 Fri, 09 May 2008 12:35:27 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20454523 pandora :
said by pleekmo See Profile :

I hate to tell you this, but the logic of the situation is this:

The best belief of many (most) of the world's scientists is that at current levels of increase in carbon dioxide the Earth will soon experience a runaway moist greenhouse (that is, the Earth would end up with a climate similar to Venus'), after which THERE WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WE COULD DO TO STOP IT.

So the point of the matter is that we can act now to ensure by reducing our greenhouse emissions to a safe level that we do not reach this point. I repeat, after we reach the point of runaway greenhouse there will be absolutely nothing we could do about it.

We can act now to make sure we never have this happen or we can do nothing and possibly extinquish most, if not all, life from Earth.

Are you willing to bet that we will not reach a runaway greenhouse or are you willing to do something to make certain that it never happens?
With all due respect.

1) Global warming has caused the inter-glacial period we are enjoying. Without it, there would be virtually no life in Connecticut and it would be uninhabitable. Global warming has been one of the greatest gifts humanity has received.

2) I seriously doubt there is a scientific consensus Earths climate is headed toward that of Venus. CO2 is one of the weaker global warming gases, and while increases in it may very well be human caused to a large extent the full ramifications of increased CO2 into our atmosphere are mostly the science fiction work of computer models. The models get more money if they make increasingly dire predictions.

3) Connecticut by itself cannot possibly resolve global warming. It can however, cause great harm to its citizens by acting unilaterally on this issue.

4) Per capita energy consumption in the U.S. over the past generation is down. Only via immigration is our energy consumption up. We have been unable to control immigration into the U.S. until we do so, it will be impossible to stabilize our energy consumption.

5) The taxes which will be imposed on citizens of Connecticut will be regressive, affecting those who are poorest or on fixed incomes most. The result will be catastrophic for those with the least voice in Hartford.

6) Energy rates in Connecticut are already a disaster. This proposal will only compound our energy problem, and will preclude any industry from considering our state as a place to do business if there are any alternatives.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20454523 Thu, 08 May 2008 23:19:21 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20453021 gregamy : Very few people can say it as well as Dr. Williams...

Environmentalists' Wild Predictions
»www.townhall.com/columnists/Walt···dictions

"It's not just latter-day doomsayers who have been wrong; doomsayers have always been wrong..."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20453021 Thu, 08 May 2008 17:42:43 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20452435 gregamy :
said by pleekmo See Profile :

Are you willing to bet that we will not reach a runaway greenhouse...?
Yes.

Someone pass me a beer? I need to release me some more carbon dioxide...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20452435 Thu, 08 May 2008 16:01:02 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20452282 pleekmo :
said by Glenn See Profile :

I can't wait until people start taking a real, logical, scientific, non hyped look at "global warming."
I hate to tell you this, but the logic of the situation is this:

The best belief of many (most) of the world's scientists is that at current levels of increase in carbon dioxide the Earth will soon experience a runaway moist greenhouse (that is, the Earth would end up with a climate similar to Venus'), after which THERE WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WE COULD DO TO STOP IT.

So the point of the matter is that we can act now to ensure by reducing our greenhouse emissions to a safe level that we do not reach this point. I repeat, after we reach the point of runaway greenhouse there will be absolutely nothing we could do about it.

We can act now to make sure we never have this happen or we can do nothing and possibly extinquish most, if not all, life from Earth.

Are you willing to bet that we will not reach a runaway greenhouse or are you willing to do something to make certain that it never happens?
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HCN: Because you deserve a rest!

Proud member of the Free Omelas Liberation Front.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20452282 Thu, 08 May 2008 15:30:46 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20451689 Glenn : There was a wonderful editorial in the Wall Street Journal a few weeks back about cutting emissions. They stated that one of the proposals would have attempted to put as back to emissions levels that this country couldn't met in the 1700's.

I can't wait until people start taking a real, logical, scientific, non hyped look at "global warming." I have a feeling there will be a lot of egg on faces. Kinda like how everyone was hailing ethanol...but "oops! Drives up food prices!"
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Legal ATVing in Connecticut?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20451689 Thu, 08 May 2008 13:22:09 EDT Re: [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20450574 Sr Tech : I have no idea what these people are thinking in Hartford. All I can say without being nasty.
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Got HAM, KE1MG]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20450574 Thu, 08 May 2008 09:53:44 EDT [INFO] Carbon emissions bill http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20450327 pandora : It looks like our state is going to have a carbon emissions mandate. By 2020 we'll have to reduce our emissions to 1990 - 10% levels. The easiest way to achieve this, will be to toss out all industry, increase electricity rates by 20-50%, add a sur-tax on anything larger than a Prius, tax home heating oil and propane. The new taxes on electricity start this September!

As taxes are used to achieve this new self imposed mandate, many will be seriously considering leaving the state.

Turns out Kermit was correct, it's not easy being green.

Story at - »www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=5b8359···caf044c4

Hartford - The Senate on Monday unanimously backed a mandate to cut emissions of greenhouse gases in Connecticut, keeping the state on pace with others in its efforts to combat global warming.

The bill, which had already passed the House of Representatives overwhelmingly and now goes to Gov. M. Jodi Rell, makes mandatory the emissions targets first approved by the legislature in 2004.

The measure would require that emissions of greenhouse gases in the state be cut to at least 10 percent below their 1990 levels by 2020. It would also require a cut to 80 percent below 2001 levels by 2050.

In addition, the legislation requires state agencies to begin working toward those emissions targets and directs the state Department of Environmental Protection to help guide other agencies in reducing their emissions.

...

Connecticut is a member of the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative, which aims to cut carbon dioxide emissions from power plants in the Northeast by instituting a cap-and-trade program. Pollution credits from the program will be auctioned off to power generators for the first time in September, and up to 7.5 percent of the proceeds from the auction would be available to help pay for the costs of the bill approved Monday.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20450327 Thu, 08 May 2008 08:50:07 EDT