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cypherstream
Is decent HD service too much to ask for
Premium
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
edit:
May 9th, @10:27AM
| reply to BSD24
Re: nasty bug with moto lately
said by BSD24  : Motorolas are the prefered boxes for most major cable operators. You know, I always wondered why Motorola was the preferred box for digital cable. You can purchase these set tops and DVR's in Canada, legally at BestBuy, and the Scientific Atlanta ones are always a little cheaper than the Motorola. On the flipside, the Scientific Atlanta set tops are much more powerful.
Here's what I like most about the SA boxes (I've used SA SARA, SA Passport, and Motorola I-Guide.)
1. SA HD and DVR's allow for Native HD Resolution Pass through. 1080i channels can come over in 1080i. 720p channels can come over in 720p -- all without powering the box off and going into a menu screen every time you want to change the resolution. The Moto only lets you pick ONE HD resolution.. not both. IE) Convert all 720p channels to 1080i, or convert all 1080i channels to 720p. This triple conversion does loose quality... I've checked and 720p looks better on ESPN,Fox,ABC,etc.. while 1080i looks much crisper on CBS,Discovery,NBC,etc.. So on my TV my box is doing this:
Looks Soft and lost detail (Triple Conversion):
720p channel > Converted to 1080i > Converted to 768p at PDP
Looks really sharp and clear:
1080i channel > Passed through > Converted to 768p at PDP
or when set to 720P...
Looks Really sharp and clear:
720p channel > Passed through > Converted to 768p at PDP
Looks soft and lost detail (Triple Conversion):
1080i channel > Converted to 720p> Converted to 768p at PDP
Even DirecTV, Dish Network, and PACE set top boxes have multiple resolution selections available, allowing you to send the proper broadcasted format to your HDTV, without being touched. I, along with others have been posting this issue with Motorola boxes for well over a year now. I'm surprise no higher ups at various MSO's or even Motorola themselves haven't found these posts on these types of sites, or even through Google searches. The best thing a company can do (Comcast or even Motorola) is to scour the internet and get REAL WORLD user opinions, wishes and complaints. It only can better their products.
2. SA boxes just seem much faster than Motorola's. Not sure if it's because of the different CPU (Dual CPU's) and RAM, or if it's just easier to program for, since the PowerTV OS is heavily documented. My Motorola 6412 constantly freezes when navigating the controls. You have to sit there and wait for it to unfreeze all the time. Remote commands constantly get 'queued' up and executed all at once causing undesirable effects. I haven't heard this issue with SA boxes, and I never experienced it myself.
3. SA boxes support interactive applications. I've seen true Multi-Room DVR, iSubscribe (change services without even talking to a CSR), GAMES (even multiplayer games such as Texas Hold'em poker with other digital cable subscribers), Caller ID on TV, Interactive television, Guided remote control programming, etc. SA has all of this way before Motorola. In fact I've yet to see anything interactive on a Motorola box except for FIOS and Passport DCT 3.0.
4. SA boxes support Picture in Picture. If there's a dual tuner, and both tuners are not recording, might as well give customers this feature. Currently I am limited to analog PIP via my Samsung plasma TV, but many people don't have that ability on their TV, or they would like to have digital channel access in the PIP window.
5. SA boxes have a smaller footprint, therefore take up less room on a shelf or TV stand. I've always liked the fact that the SA boxes aren't as wide as the Motorola's. It's a nice neat little package.
6. SA has been in the cable business for many years. SA has more experience in real world CATV than Motorola. Granted Motorola acquired General Instruments, but SA gear was always superior. Even when I had an SA 8600X interactive analog box... it was way ahead of the General Instruments/Jerrold DPPV analog set tops. Seems like SA is just a few years ahead. Now with networking extraordinaries Cisco purchasing SA, we can expect some great interoperability patents from Cisco making their way into future products.
7. Even the SA SD set top boxes have an S-Video output! It's quite a gamble to get an SD Motorola box with an S-Video port, infact your odds are very slim (at least in the few different Moto cable companies around my area). Let's face it, S-Video is much better than Composite video! My DCT-700 in the bedroom can't use my Toshiba's S-Video port because it doesn't have one! The colors just seem washed out as opposed to when I had a DVR connected to that SD TV. No, I'm not going to pay extra for an HD box just for S-Video for an SDTV. S-Video should be standard, and at least SA got it right.
8. SA boxes have much more thorough diagnostic menus than the Motorola's. This extra information greatly assists cable operators and tech savy people into troubleshooting signal levels, and force tuning by source ID, QAM, PID, etc..
9. SA DVR's allow the user to attach an external SATA hard drive to expand the DVR recording space. It's simple to use and it JUST WORKS. PACE boxes have this ability too. What's up Motorola, need to hire someone to help get this working?
I've just been much more impressed with the SA boxes. From the smaller footprint, better looking box with green LED, and feature packed interactive guides. I've had fun playing games on them, I've enjoyed the cool guide animations (fade in's, out's, slides, zooms, etc..) and even sounds that are emitted from the box. Simple features such as S-Video and Digital audio output on SD Boxes are the icing to the cake. Last but not least native HD resolution ability is included along with a nice HDTV setup wizard is great for videophiles like myself who want to get the most out of their expensive flat panel HDTV's.
If you want an example of interactive programs on SA boxes, head over to Cablevision's site and check out their iO games, caller ID on screen and interactive mosaic channels. Head over to Time Warner or Brighthouse's site and check out their caller ID on screen, interactive channels (pull up sports scores, play fantasy football, card games and more).
SA is the way to go, and Motorola has been nothing but an utter disappointment. I only hope that there's some hidden potential in the Motorola set tops that can be unleashed with some talented programmers and new feature rich creative user interfaces. Perhaps the Gemstar I-Guide is the limiting factor? The Comcast/Tivo doesn't seem to be fairing too well either though... 3-5 minutes to set a series recording? Come on! Hopefully someone hacks the crap out of the Motorola box and firmware, and replaces it with something much easer to program for, and much more feature rich with better performance. Perhaps they are just underpowered though. Not sure how the Broadcom CPU stacks up against a RISC based PowerPC in the SA in a head to head computational battle. Ever use a DCT-2000? God that is just a horribly slow system to use. To think the Tan guide was even slower. Wow, we've come a long way. Let's hope they improve these things in the next few months.
If Comcast had a dual platform CA system here and I had the choice... I would pick up an SA DVR hands down, no questions asked. I know Comcast will never go this route though. But if Verizon FIOS TV became available, I would seriously consider switching because their guide looks so much more visually appealing, along with more features (widgets, games, multi room DVR, PC Media center connections, etc.) | |
BSD24
Premium
join:2008-04-30
Taunton, MA
clubs:
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Comcast
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| said by cypherstream :said by BSD24 : Motorolas are the prefered boxes for most major cable operators. You know, I always wondered why Motorola was the preferred box for digital cable. You can purchase these set tops and DVR's in Canada, legally at BestBuy, and the Scientific Atlanta ones are always a little cheaper than the Motorola. On the flipside, the Scientific Atlanta set tops are much more powerful. Here's what I like most about the SA boxes (I've used SA SARA, SA Passport, and Motorola I-Guide.) 1. SA HD and DVR's allow for Native HD Resolution Pass through. 1080i channels can come over in 1080i. 720p channels can come over in 720p -- all without powering the box off and going into a menu screen every time you want to change the resolution. The Moto only lets you pick ONE HD resolution.. not both. IE) Convert all 720p channels to 1080i, or convert all 1080i channels to 720p. This triple conversion does loose quality... I've checked and 720p looks better on ESPN,Fox,ABC,etc.. while 1080i looks much crisper on CBS,Discovery,NBC,etc.. So on my TV my box is doing this: Looks Soft and lost detail (Triple Conversion): 720p channel > Converted to 1080i > Converted to 768p at PDP Looks really sharp and clear: 1080i channel > Passed through > Converted to 768p at PDP or when set to 720P... Looks Really sharp and clear: 720p channel > Passed through > Converted to 768p at PDP Looks soft and lost detail (Triple Conversion): 1080i channel > Converted to 720p> Converted to 768p at PDP Even DirecTV, Dish Network, and PACE set top boxes have multiple resolution selections available, allowing you to send the proper broadcasted format to your HDTV, without being touched. I, along with others have been posting this issue with Motorola boxes for well over a year now. I'm surprise no higher ups at various MSO's or even Motorola themselves haven't found these posts on these types of sites, or even through Google searches. The best thing a company can do (Comcast or even Motorola) is to scour the internet and get REAL WORLD user opinions, wishes and complaints. It only can better their products. 2. SA boxes just seem much faster than Motorola's. Not sure if it's because of the different CPU (Dual CPU's) and RAM, or if it's just easier to program for, since the PowerTV OS is heavily documented. My Motorola 6412 constantly freezes when navigating the controls. You have to sit there and wait for it to unfreeze all the time. Remote commands constantly get 'queued' up and executed all at once causing undesirable effects. I haven't heard this issue with SA boxes, and I never experienced it myself. 3. SA boxes support interactive applications. I've seen true Multi-Room DVR, iSubscribe (change services without even talking to a CSR), GAMES (even multiplayer games such as Texas Hold'em poker with other digital cable subscribers), Caller ID on TV, Interactive television, Guided remote control programming, etc. SA has all of this way before Motorola. In fact I've yet to see anything interactive on a Motorola box except for FIOS and Passport DCT 3.0. 4. SA boxes support Picture in Picture. If there's a dual tuner, and both tuners are not recording, might as well give customers this feature. Currently I am limited to analog PIP via my Samsung plasma TV, but many people don't have that ability on their TV, or they would like to have digital channel access in the PIP window. 5. SA boxes have a smaller footprint, therefore take up less room on a shelf or TV stand. I've always liked the fact that the SA boxes aren't as wide as the Motorola's. It's a nice neat little package. 6. SA has been in the cable business for many years. SA has more experience in real world CATV than Motorola. Granted Motorola acquired General Instruments, but SA gear was always superior. Even when I had an SA 8600X interactive analog box... it was way ahead of the General Instruments/Jerrold DPPV analog set tops. Seems like SA is just a few years ahead. Now with networking extraordinaries Cisco purchasing SA, we can expect some great interoperability patents from Cisco making their way into future products. 7. Even the SA SD set top boxes have an S-Video output! It's quite a gamble to get an SD Motorola box with an S-Video port, infact your odds are very slim (at least in the few different Moto cable companies around my area). Let's face it, S-Video is much better than Composite video! My DCT-700 in the bedroom can't use my Toshiba's S-Video port because it doesn't have one! The colors just seem washed out as opposed to when I had a DVR connected to that SD TV. No, I'm not going to pay extra for an HD box just for S-Video for an SDTV. S-Video should be standard, and at least SA got it right. 8. SA boxes have much more thorough diagnostic menus than the Motorola's. This extra information greatly assists cable operators and tech savy people into troubleshooting signal levels, and force tuning by source ID, QAM, PID, etc.. 9. SA DVR's allow the user to attach an external SATA hard drive to expand the DVR recording space. It's simple to use and it JUST WORKS. PACE boxes have this ability too. What's up Motorola, need to hire someone to help get this working? I've just been much more impressed with the SA boxes. From the smaller footprint, better looking box with green LED, and feature packed interactive guides. I've had fun playing games on them, I've enjoyed the cool guide animations (fade in's, out's, slides, zooms, etc..) and even sounds that are emitted from the box. Simple features such as S-Video and Digital audio output on SD Boxes are the icing to the cake. Last but not least native HD resolution ability is included along with a nice HDTV setup wizard is great for videophiles like myself who want to get the most out of their expensive flat panel HDTV's. If you want an example of interactive programs on SA boxes, head over to Cablevision's site and check out their iO games, caller ID on screen and interactive mosaic channels. Head over to Time Warner or Brighthouse's site and check out their caller ID on screen, interactive channels (pull up sports scores, play fantasy football, card games and more). SA is the way to go, and Motorola has been nothing but an utter disappointment. I only hope that there's some hidden potential in the Motorola set tops that can be unleashed with some talented programmers and new feature rich creative user interfaces. Perhaps the Gemstar I-Guide is the limiting factor? The Comcast/Tivo doesn't seem to be fairing too well either though... 3-5 minutes to set a series recording? Come on! Hopefully someone hacks the crap out of the Motorola box and firmware, and replaces it with something much easer to program for, and much more feature rich with better performance. Perhaps they are just underpowered though. Not sure how the Broadcom CPU stacks up against a RISC based PowerPC in the SA in a head to head computational battle. Ever use a DCT-2000? God that is just a horribly slow system to use. To think the Tan guide was even slower. Wow, we've come a long way. Let's hope they improve these things in the next few months. If Comcast had a dual platform CA system here and I had the choice... I would pick up an SA DVR hands down, no questions asked. I know Comcast will never go this route though. But if Verizon FIOS TV became available, I would seriously consider switching because their guide looks so much more visually appealing, along with more features (widgets, games, multi room DVR, PC Media center connections, etc.) You should talk to all the complainers that are stuck with Scietific Atlanta. Although I bet you you would lose the argument with them. Besides the fact you have to wait 3-10minutes for a SA box to load versus 30-90 seconds for a Moto, and world-known defects with all SA boxes (locks up saying "You are not authorized", fix is simple reboot the box by unplugging pwr cord and plugging back in then waiting up to 15 minutes for it to come back online). Some of the defects have been going on for years un-resolved. And sorry but Verizon FIOS uses Motorola too, I wonder why. Its funny you like the Fios guide too, cause although the guide isn't bad, the on-demand menu is a mess! | |
BSD24
Premium
join:2008-04-30
Taunton, MA
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| I'm sure now that Cisco took over the failing Scietific Atlanta Cable box manufacturer which you love so horribly, I'm sure they will succeed finally in fixing their 4+ year issues and improve performance overall. Comcast has some of the brand new models for the SA-BOX markets (communities with SA-based systems), which you will see are labeled Cisco and Comcast (logos) on front of the new boxes. The future is unknown, but is definatly coming. | |
cypherstream
Is decent HD service too much to ask for
Premium
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
edit:
May 12th, @01:57PM
| reply to BSD24
Well I'd rather sacrifice a few minutes booting up for the ability to have native HD resolution pass through, games, searchable on demand, caller ID on screen, PIP, eSATA hard drive connectivity for expanding DVR storage, all in a smaller lighter box. Plus I love the Passport system I've used in North East PA. Passtime and Buzztime Games are real slick, Multi-Room DVR, channel logo's, fast guide user interface with no freezing like on my Motorola. Heck you push a button and stuff slides or fades gracefully into view. This helps bring the attention to key points on the screen, and adds polish to the interface. It's user interface 101... need help? Ask apple, or heck, play around with the Nintendo Wii menus. I think this past weekend I heard my Girlfriend go "F#@! Comcast!" because the Motorola froze on a Salsa music channel and she had to wait for it to unfreeze. It does this far too often.
Again, do all of the loading in the beginning, much like a computer, and I'll be fine with that. I've seen the Aptiv Passport boot up on an SA 3200 on Blue Ridge Cable, and it honestly wasn't that bad. Our system used Scientific Atlanta for all of their analog needs, and as soon as Comcast installed digital cable they rolled out Motorolas. Sure they do get the job done, but they are really frustrating to use.
If you could just pass those comments forward I would appreciate it.
The number 1 issue is the constant freezing when navigating anything.
Number 2 would be allow selectable resolution's like every other HD box on the market.
Number 3 would be to bring the guide up to snuff and make it look modern. Give it the ability to find programs easier. If I search for a program, actor/actress, genre, I should see not only linear TV channels in my results, but on demand listings as well. I should be able to have multi-room DVR. I should be able to get caller ID on screen with my Triple Play service. I should be able to play some poker games with other people on the network. I should be able to set my DVR to record over the internet or check and manage conflicts from any PC. There's just a whole lot of potential out there that's not being tapped into. If were waiting for Tru2Way, fine. I just hope that the very limited hardware in the Motorola set tops can handle this sort of thing.
I have to admit, the new Motorola DCX series set tops look nice. 1 Ghz tuners, MPEG4 ability, and hopefully **crosses fingers** larger hard drive support. Hey I can buy a 500GB drive for $80 at Tiger Direct. Lets see something closer to that in size for the DVR, then I don't even need eSATA ability. 120GB was fine for SD recordings, but now it's a little cramped for HD recordings. Heck they could transcode everything into H.264 when storing it to the hard drive to save even more space.
I'm not trying to direct any negativity towards you BDavis... I'm just a frustrated user stuck with an archaic Motorola box (wait.. is it the box or the software...?) I don't mean to take that frustration out on your or anyone here... I just want to vent my own opinions (yes everyone has them), and perhaps some talented developers can fix and make the Motorola platform better. Tivo's even having a tough time with it but hopefully theres a group out there somewhere that can really polish this platform and go through it with a fine toothed comb. Remember, there is ALWAYS room for improvement. | |
teckie419
join:2008-06-17
Saginaw, MI
edit:
June 17th, @03:54AM
| reply to cypherstream
said by cypherstream :1. SA HD and DVR's allow for Native HD Resolution Pass through. 1080i channels can come over in 1080i. 720p channels can come over in 720p -- all without powering the box off and going into a menu screen every time you want to change the resolution. The Moto only lets you pick ONE HD resolution.. not both. IE) Convert all 720p channels to 1080i, or convert all 1080i channels to 720p. This triple conversion does loose quality... I've checked and 720p looks better on ESPN,Fox,ABC,etc.. while 1080i looks much crisper on CBS,Discovery,NBC,etc.. So on my TV my box is doing this: Looks Soft and lost detail (Triple Conversion): 720p channel > Converted to 1080i > Converted to 768p at PDP Looks really sharp and clear: 1080i channel > Passed through > Converted to 768p at PDP or when set to 720P... Looks Really sharp and clear: 720p channel > Passed through > Converted to 768p at PDP Looks soft and lost detail (Triple Conversion): 1080i channel > Converted to 720p> Converted to 768p at PDP Even DirecTV, Dish Network, and PACE set top boxes have multiple resolution selections available, allowing you to send the proper broadcasted format to your HDTV, without being touched. I, along with others have been posting this issue with Motorola boxes for well over a year now. I'm surprise no higher ups at various MSO's or even Motorola themselves haven't found these posts on these types of sites, or even through Google searches. The best thing a company can do (Comcast or even Motorola) is to scour the internet and get REAL WORLD user opinions, wishes and complaints. It only can better their products. I cant thank you enough for posting this information and uncovering this stupid lack of attention on the part of Motorola.
I am new to highdef and have a Samsung T4254 too with the Moto 3416 box. I called my cable provider tonight to ask them why the resolution on the box changed and now always displays 720p, when before I hooked up the HDMI cable it would change based on the resolution. I went through at least 7 customer reps on 4 subsequent calls, a number of transfers, and even a disconnection from a transfer attempt. Not one freaking cable rep knew enough to tell me about the HIDDEN MENU for the Moto box. Not one of them knew about it. One even told me to call back and ask another rep. WTF!! So finally 7 reps later I get a guy that didnt know but went to find out by reading the manual (gee why didnt I think of that).. But from some creative inginuity we BOTH discovered (simultaneously) that the cable box was NOT CAPABLE of displaying the native resolution. It will either upconvert a 720 signal or down convert a 1080 signal, much like your example, which was brilliant by the way. Now I sit here with the same frustration as to what resolution it should really be on 720 or 1080, and that depends on the channel being watched. I can see myself accessing the hidden menu regularly and over time becoming annoyed by it. At least someone here knows about it, understands the problem, and wants to do something about it. Way to go! Keep this thread going! | |
cypherstream
Is decent HD service too much to ask for
Premium
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
| CEO Michael Willner of Insight investigated this after I commented to a post regarding 720p or 1080i, and they are at least pushing Motorola for a firmware update to correct that simple issue.
I get recognized here:
»www.michaelsinsight.com/2008/06/···esc.html | |
KoRnGtL15
Premium
join:2007-01-04
Grants Pass, OR | I have Charter and there Motorola DCH-6416. Really hope to see that fix soon. | |
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