Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Sterling Heights, MI
| reply to Name Game
Re: Stop the FISA "back-room" deal
said by Name Game  :But no one has evidence they did. Why? Presidential priveledge and state secrets are being claimed so the information does not have to be released.
"People should not fear their government, their government should fear the people." - V.
There are very good reasons why we have laws like the Freedom of Information Act. We can't trust our government and we know it.
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How hard does DRM have to bite before business abandon it? |
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
edit:
May 9th, @10:35AM
| Well maybe Mark Klein will write a book and you can all buy and keep your 'sky is falling' fear going. He has already stole internal documents from his past employer that still don't prove a thing..but he might need some funds to fight his own civil case since the telco also has recourse in the courts.  |
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spy1
Welcome to Amerika
Premium
join:2002-06-24
Charlotte, NC
edit:
May 9th, @11:34AM
| reply to Kilroy
said by Kilroy :Why? Presidential priveledge and state secrets are being claimed so the information does not have to be released. Thank you. (You'd think that would be obvious, but apparently it goes right straight over some peoples' heads).
If the government itself is the only entity that knows who's being spied on (and they are, since they're the only ones doing it)
and the government itself won't give up the names or the details - then there's no possible way for anyone to "prove" they've been wire-tapped.
This is so obvious as to make the "prove it" argument ludicrous. The only conclusion that can be drawn relating to people using that as an "arguement" in favor of un-limited, secret government power is that they want things that way.
Who knows - maybe a transitory illusion of safety makes it all worthwhile for them.
In the meantime, the ACLU is not the only privacy/rights organization that opposes the FISA "compromise" : »www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/05/ne···tiations
»cdt.org/action/snooping/
And here's some food for thought: »epic.org/ - "FISA Orders Up, Government Reporting on National Security Letters Begins
According to the 2007 FISA report, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court approved 2,370 application to conduct electronic surveillance and physical searches in the United States in 2007, up from 2,176 applications approved in 2006. For the first time, the report includes information regarding the total number of requests made by the Department of Justice with National Security Letter authority for information concerning U.S. persons. In 2006, the government made approximately 12,583 NSL requests for information concerning 4,790 U.S. persons. The 2007 NSL statistics are expected later this year. For more information on FISA, see EPIC FISA Orders page and EPIC FISA page. (May 1)
Wiretaps Up by 20 Percent in 2007
According to the 2007 Wiretap report, federal and state courts issued 2,208 orders for the interception of wire, oral or electronic communications in 2007, compared to 1,839 in 2006. (Press release.) As in 2006, no applications for wiretap authorizations were denied by either state or federal courts. The total number of authorized wiretaps has grown in each of the five past calendar years, beginning in 2003. The 2007 Wiretap Report does not include interceptions regulated by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 or interceptions initiated by the President outside the exclusive authority of the federal wiretap law and the FISA. See EPIC Wiretapping page. (Apr. 30)
*Oh - make fun of Mark Klein if you like, but have you watched this one? It's real recent:
»www.kmov.com/video/topvideo-inde···d=242310 |
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
edit:
May 9th, @12:02PM
| Not making fun of him at all..his past employer has already stated they want those documents back when he first had them published in the .pdf on the internet. I think you will find this will not be over for a while.
As for the video..I think you also know that the FBI wants the ISP's to hold record for at least two years. |
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ross
join:2000-08-16
 ·Digizip
| reply to Name Game
In your case, one can bring the pig to the trough, but one cannot teach him the principles of democracy. I blame the defective American education system.
That is something the Gingrich Revolution and the Bush administration have had a great impact upon; cutting funding for preschoolers, health care for children, food subsidy programs, and AFDC.
They would rather build prisons, privatize the public treasury, "torture the beejezus out of furriners", bomb them into the stone-age obliterate subjugate annex the Middle East and lay waste the principles our country is founded upon by gutting our rights established under the Constitution, and protected by the rule of law. At least as they were before our "bullchip cowboy" began rewriting the law to suit his own agenda; or, as given to him by his godhead deity...er, voice(s) in his head...
But, hey, what's a little illegal wiretapping among friends? So what if the black-hole of "National SECURITY" trumps your civil rights. So what, that American citizens can be picked up without warrant, be held incommunicado, even be transported out of the country to secret/undisclosed locations where they can be tortured indefinitely by "people" who are unencumbered by even the pretense of civil rights, or rule of law? So what, if the telecommunications companies that we have invested our sacred trust in illegally aid and abet the wholesale violation of our rights in order to willingly assist the secret police in illegally collecting data on every citizen for unknown, unknowable, unproductive and anti-American ends?
This country is a far different place than the country I was born and raised in. In the last thirty to forty years, corporations, and their national security minions, have seized the government, purchased the political party system and bent it to their ends. Bush is the crowning achievement of the radical right wing evangelicals in this country. (I'd say clowning, but there is nothing whatsoever funny about Georgw W. Bush.) well, except that dumb-fuck, shit-eating, deer-caught-in-the-headlights, I-just-cut-the cheese grin that appears on his face from time to time when someone asks him a simple question he should know the answer to, but doesn't...
The veil of illusory freedom is perilously close to being removed forever by the over-reaching robber barons responsible for the current economic meltdown in this country, and around the world.
But, you go ahead, by all means, continue sucking up to abusive power while it is still fashionable...and voluntary.
Good luck asserting what's left of your freedoms in our not too distant "post-Bush future", if John McCain, the Republicans, and their Supreme Court, continue to rule as the last word...
Do you think there is any chance at all that sinkhole might chance to swallow up Crawford, lock, stock and pickle barrel? |
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
edit:
May 9th, @12:49PM
| Glad you got that off your chest  .. it gives the people who post HOPE there is still a target they can trash talk another American Citizen who hold a different opinion than they do..that is common among those who like to take action..as a mob they try to run over anyone who gets in their way as they push and accuse..it is also easier then to justify their own behavior in this Democratic Society we have. Take it out on the other guy..knock him to the ground..and then you know you have won.
Be sure to vote
and of course we know the difference between Civil Court and Criminal Courts..and where to files these days
»Effort To Scuttle Telecom Immunity Push Fails
--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/
*
A fun/friendly/informative forum for the mature elder crowd
»www.theover50goldengroup.net
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ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
edit:
May 9th, @01:36PM
| I can't feel sorry for anyone who supports the Bush regime. I've had it with Bush, and everything the SOB stands for. I can't wait for representative democracy and the rule of law to be re-established in this country.
I want my Constitution made whole. I want the repeal of the USAPATRIOT ACT, its adjuncts, derivatives and extensions. I want the repeal of the Military Commissions ACT. I want the FISA court to function solely as it was originally intended, with every possible limitation on its authority to act outside those constraints. I want the illegal monitoring and surveillance of American citizens halted immediately, and all data culled from illegal wiretaps and internet surveillance discarded, destroyed or made non-actionable and inadmissible in any court. I want the restoration of attorney-client privilege. I want the rescission of every so-called signing statement penned by G.W. Bush, and the reestablishment of the original wording and intent of all laws passed during his presidency which he has perverted by use of these unconstitutional usurpations of the power of Congress to make the law. I want the downsizing and re-purposing of the so-called Dept. of Homeland Security to curtail its unbridled power, and re-focus the mission to one more amenable to a democracy at peace, however uneasy, with its fellow nations, and within itself.
Take a look in the mirror as you protest the inevitable turning away from despotism by the electorate. It wasn't long ago that these self-same DSLR fora were the domain of rabid Bushies roundly applauding, and cheering on the insane megalomaniac's military intrusions around the world, lambasting and pillaring anyone who had the temerity to suggest a second thought, or rational reflection in support of our freedoms, and the freedom of others to self-determination, freedom from torture, subjugation and exploitation.
I have voted in every election I was entitled to vote in since reaching majority, but if I had ever voted for G.W. Bush, and admitted to supporting his propensity to torture, his vision of America, and the subjugation of the world's peoples, including our own citizens, for the sole benefit of his corporate sponsors, I'd voluntarily surrender my voter registration card.
Don't worry about the lamps, George. They will be re-lit by those with a much better understanding of how freedom works and what it means. Goodbye, and good riddance G.W., don't let the screen door hit you in the ass on your way out... |
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jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Mark your calendar for next year at this time and come back to review this thread. I'll lay odds that nothing much will have changed no matter who wins in November, but eventually you won't have GWB to kick around. Then what? |
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ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
edit:
May 9th, @02:12PM
| said by jester121 :Mark your calendar for next year at this time and come back to review this thread. I'll lay odds that nothing much will have changed no matter who wins in November, but eventually you won't have GWB to kick around. Then what? Hallelujah! Who the fuck cares, as long as GWB is gone, gone, gone. I cannot wait... |
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC | reply to jester121
Hillary will be a Super Delagate.. and the House will still have their "back-rooms" |
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spy1
Welcome to Amerika
Premium
join:2002-06-24
Charlotte, NC
| reply to Name Game
said by Name Game :..I think you also know that the FBI wants the ISP's to hold record for at least two years. Quite aware of that: »www.news.com/2100-1028_3-5748649.html
FAS has some interesting reading here (start with page 28 unless you just like reading about oldies-but-goodies like TIA, CAPPS/CAPPSII/SecureFlight, etc.):
»www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL31798.pdf
"The Novel Intelligence from Massive Data (NIMD) program focuses on the
development of data mining and analysis tools to be used in working with massive
data.114 Novel intelligence refers to “actionable information not previously known.”
Massive data refers to data that has characteristics that are especially challenging to
common data analysis tools and methods. These characteristics can include unusual
volume, breadth (heterogeneity), and complexity. Data sets that are one petabyte
(one quadrillion bytes) or larger are considered to be “massive.” Smaller data sets
that contain items in a wide variety of formats, or are very heterogeneous (i.e.,
unstructured text, spoken text, audio, video, graphs, diagrams, images, maps,
equations, chemical formulas, tables, etc.) can also be considered “massive.”
According to ARDA’s website (no longer available)115 “some intelligence data
sources grow at a rate of four petabytes per month now, and the rate of growth is
increasing.” With the continued proliferation of both the means and volume of
electronic communications, it is expected that the need for more sophisticated tools
will intensify. Whereas some observers once predicted that the NSA was in danger
of becoming proverbially deaf due to the spreading use of encrypted
communications, it appears that NSA may now be at greater risk of being “drowned”
in information."
Isn't it amazing how people can claim to be concerned about "spyware" and being "profiled" by the websites they visit (being "datamined, IOW) - while at the same time not turning a hair at the fact of being MASSIVELY datamined and tracked by... their...own...government. Later, guy. Pete |
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
edit:
May 9th, @02:56PM
|  Thank Pete
If you back up to page 17..you can see they were trying to protect..It is going to be hard for the legislatures to define all these tools..the evolution of them came from the private sector since even anything close to them were gutted by previous administrations and legislatures. Budgets were cut..The White House was a travel agency and they all played cloak and dagger between themself within the beltway..spied on each other..and shared all the pork barrel.
Now protecting Americans seems to be important. I wish them all the best of luck..but you know me..I do not trust any politician..no matter what side they comb their hair. |
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ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| reply to Name Game
No one has abused the legislative process as adroitly and consistently as the Republicans in recent memory. Though, I am also hoping someone comes along to oust Feinstein and her gang of hawks, so younger, more constructive voices may be heard.
Since I don't think Cynthia McKinney is going to make the cut, I am hopeful that Obama win both the Democratic nomination, and the presidency. I also hope he drags a lot of Democratic congressmen and women along with him. The country could use to have a lot more Democrats to beat up on for a change (not that Republicans let up much during Bush's reign). Perhaps sheer numbers will embolden them to undertake to do what is right, rather than what is politick, along the lines of dismantling the cocoon of despotism Bush has woven about the country.
As much as I despise what the Republicans have conspired to do to our country, it will be necessary to gain their cooperation to set our course aright. That is something for which I believe Obama has a talent. Maybe we'll all begin to remember the promise the word America once held in the world. |
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
| Well if you ever face prosecution for any of this Security Spy stuff..give Pete and me a call..we will bail you out.
»news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7378695.stm
been there..done that |
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FiOS Dan
Premium
join:2001-07-06
Redondo Beach, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
·EarthLink
| reply to ross
said by ross :It wasn't long ago that these self-same DSLR fora were the domain of rabid Bushies roundly applauding, and cheering on the insane megalomaniac's military intrusions around the world, lambasting and pillaring anyone who had the temerity to suggest a second thought, or rational reflection in support of our freedoms, and the freedom of others to self-determination, freedom from torture, subjugation and exploitation. We are still here pilgrim but we long ago figured out that there is no reasoning with people who are s-o-o off the wall. But just for old time's sake, let's run down that long list of military "intrusions" around the world--Afghanistan and Iraq. Not so long after all. Comes up a little short on the megalomaniac meter, eh?
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Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.
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ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
edit:
May 10th, @03:00PM
| said by FiOS Dan :We are still here pilgrim but we long ago figured out that there is no reasoning with people who are s-o-o off the wall. But just for old time's sake, let's run down that long list of military "intrusions" around the world--Afghanistan and Iraq. Not so long after all. Comes up a little short on the megalomaniac meter, eh? -- Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway. I believe you all STFU around the time the truth became evident, and you had no more lies to trumpet. Attacking and laying waste to Iraq with absolutely no justification is enough to qualify, as far as I'm concerned.
The unnecessary and unwarranted slaughter of 100,000 to 600,000 men, women and children on the basis of a bald-faced lie masking our esteemed egoist's delusional pretension to glory as a "Wartime President", and "Commander in Chief", is a bit insane, IMHO. Do you require more?
As is the extreme paranoia of our exalted executive that has resulted in the dismantling of our Constitutional rights.
So, I expect you to remain quiet while the injury Bush has inflicted on America and the world is redressed.
--
Stupidity is enthusiastically riding into catastrophe with your head up the horse's ass that is leading you... |
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC | So ross, are we going to fine the telco's for letting President Bush listen to Aunt Martha's chicken dumpling recipe over the phone..or will it just be inadmissable evidence if she is accussed of giving away the family secrets ? |
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FiOS Dan
Premium
join:2001-07-06
Redondo Beach, CA
·Verizon FIOS
·EarthLink
| reply to ross
said by ross :said by FiOS Dan :We are still here pilgrim but we long ago figured out that there is no reasoning with people who are s-o-o off the wall. But just for old time's sake, let's run down that long list of military "intrusions" around the world--Afghanistan and Iraq. Not so long after all. Comes up a little short on the megalomaniac meter, eh? -- Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway. I believe you all STFU around the time the truth became evident, and you had no more lies to trumpet. Attacking and laying waste to Iraq with absolutely no justification is enough to qualify, as far as I'm concerned. The unnecessary and unwarranted slaughter of 100,000 to 600,000 men, women and children on the basis of a bald-faced lie masking our esteemed egoist's delusional pretension to glory as a "Wartime President", and "Commander in Chief", is a bit insane, IMHO. Do you require more? As is the extreme paranoia of our exalted executive that has resulted in the dismantling of our Constitutional rights. So, I expect you to remain quiet while the injury Bush has inflicted on America and the world is redressed. -- Stupidity is enthusiastically riding into catastrophe with your head up the horse's ass that is leading you... Like I said "...s-o-o off the wall." I swore off these wacko paranoid threads a while ago but every now and then I can not resist the temptation to orbit back in and fan the flames a bit. Anyone else care to weigh in on the evil masterminds in Washington? But please, if you do, try to come up with that little detail called a motive for their actions.
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Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.
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mikenolan7
Premium
join:2005-06-07
Torrance, CA
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| The motive is easy. Political power. See Hotel, Watergate or McCarthy, Joseph Raymond or Hoover, J. Edgar. An attitude best summarized by Conan the Barbarian:
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women."
A philosophy not uncommon among those with political ambitions, resulting in a popular belief that said eavesdropping has always, and will always, occur. |
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FiOS Dan
Premium
join:2001-07-06
Redondo Beach, CA
·Verizon FIOS
·EarthLink
| They attacked Afghanistan and Iraq, and they want to listen in on high-risk phone conversations, for political power? So those are Democrats who brought down the WTC and who are hiding in those Middle East caves? 
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Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.
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