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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
edit:
May 9th, @10:35AM
| reply to Kilroy
Re: Stop the FISA "back-room" deal
Well maybe Mark Klein will write a book and you can all buy and keep your 'sky is falling' fear going. He has already stole internal documents from his past employer that still don't prove a thing..but he might need some funds to fight his own civil case since the telco also has recourse in the courts.  | |
ross
join:2000-08-16
 ·Digizip
| In your case, one can bring the pig to the trough, but one cannot teach him the principles of democracy. I blame the defective American education system.
That is something the Gingrich Revolution and the Bush administration have had a great impact upon; cutting funding for preschoolers, health care for children, food subsidy programs, and AFDC.
They would rather build prisons, privatize the public treasury, "torture the beejezus out of furriners", bomb them into the stone-age obliterate subjugate annex the Middle East and lay waste the principles our country is founded upon by gutting our rights established under the Constitution, and protected by the rule of law. At least as they were before our "bullchip cowboy" began rewriting the law to suit his own agenda; or, as given to him by his godhead deity...er, voice(s) in his head...
But, hey, what's a little illegal wiretapping among friends? So what if the black-hole of "National SECURITY" trumps your civil rights. So what, that American citizens can be picked up without warrant, be held incommunicado, even be transported out of the country to secret/undisclosed locations where they can be tortured indefinitely by "people" who are unencumbered by even the pretense of civil rights, or rule of law? So what, if the telecommunications companies that we have invested our sacred trust in illegally aid and abet the wholesale violation of our rights in order to willingly assist the secret police in illegally collecting data on every citizen for unknown, unknowable, unproductive and anti-American ends?
This country is a far different place than the country I was born and raised in. In the last thirty to forty years, corporations, and their national security minions, have seized the government, purchased the political party system and bent it to their ends. Bush is the crowning achievement of the radical right wing evangelicals in this country. (I'd say clowning, but there is nothing whatsoever funny about Georgw W. Bush.) well, except that dumb-fuck, shit-eating, deer-caught-in-the-headlights, I-just-cut-the cheese grin that appears on his face from time to time when someone asks him a simple question he should know the answer to, but doesn't...
The veil of illusory freedom is perilously close to being removed forever by the over-reaching robber barons responsible for the current economic meltdown in this country, and around the world.
But, you go ahead, by all means, continue sucking up to abusive power while it is still fashionable...and voluntary.
Good luck asserting what's left of your freedoms in our not too distant "post-Bush future", if John McCain, the Republicans, and their Supreme Court, continue to rule as the last word...
Do you think there is any chance at all that sinkhole might chance to swallow up Crawford, lock, stock and pickle barrel? | |
Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
edit:
May 9th, @12:49PM
| Glad you got that off your chest  .. it gives the people who post HOPE there is still a target they can trash talk another American Citizen who hold a different opinion than they do..that is common among those who like to take action..as a mob they try to run over anyone who gets in their way as they push and accuse..it is also easier then to justify their own behavior in this Democratic Society we have. Take it out on the other guy..knock him to the ground..and then you know you have won.
Be sure to vote
and of course we know the difference between Civil Court and Criminal Courts..and where to files these days
»Effort To Scuttle Telecom Immunity Push Fails
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ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
edit:
May 9th, @01:36PM
| I can't feel sorry for anyone who supports the Bush regime. I've had it with Bush, and everything the SOB stands for. I can't wait for representative democracy and the rule of law to be re-established in this country.
I want my Constitution made whole. I want the repeal of the USAPATRIOT ACT, its adjuncts, derivatives and extensions. I want the repeal of the Military Commissions ACT. I want the FISA court to function solely as it was originally intended, with every possible limitation on its authority to act outside those constraints. I want the illegal monitoring and surveillance of American citizens halted immediately, and all data culled from illegal wiretaps and internet surveillance discarded, destroyed or made non-actionable and inadmissible in any court. I want the restoration of attorney-client privilege. I want the rescission of every so-called signing statement penned by G.W. Bush, and the reestablishment of the original wording and intent of all laws passed during his presidency which he has perverted by use of these unconstitutional usurpations of the power of Congress to make the law. I want the downsizing and re-purposing of the so-called Dept. of Homeland Security to curtail its unbridled power, and re-focus the mission to one more amenable to a democracy at peace, however uneasy, with its fellow nations, and within itself.
Take a look in the mirror as you protest the inevitable turning away from despotism by the electorate. It wasn't long ago that these self-same DSLR fora were the domain of rabid Bushies roundly applauding, and cheering on the insane megalomaniac's military intrusions around the world, lambasting and pillaring anyone who had the temerity to suggest a second thought, or rational reflection in support of our freedoms, and the freedom of others to self-determination, freedom from torture, subjugation and exploitation.
I have voted in every election I was entitled to vote in since reaching majority, but if I had ever voted for G.W. Bush, and admitted to supporting his propensity to torture, his vision of America, and the subjugation of the world's peoples, including our own citizens, for the sole benefit of his corporate sponsors, I'd voluntarily surrender my voter registration card.
Don't worry about the lamps, George. They will be re-lit by those with a much better understanding of how freedom works and what it means. Goodbye, and good riddance G.W., don't let the screen door hit you in the ass on your way out... | |
jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Mark your calendar for next year at this time and come back to review this thread. I'll lay odds that nothing much will have changed no matter who wins in November, but eventually you won't have GWB to kick around. Then what? | |
ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
edit:
May 9th, @02:12PM
| said by jester121  :Mark your calendar for next year at this time and come back to review this thread. I'll lay odds that nothing much will have changed no matter who wins in November, but eventually you won't have GWB to kick around. Then what? Hallelujah! Who the fuck cares, as long as GWB is gone, gone, gone. I cannot wait... | |
Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC | reply to jester121
Hillary will be a Super Delagate.. and the House will still have their "back-rooms" | |
ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| No one has abused the legislative process as adroitly and consistently as the Republicans in recent memory. Though, I am also hoping someone comes along to oust Feinstein and her gang of hawks, so younger, more constructive voices may be heard.
Since I don't think Cynthia McKinney is going to make the cut, I am hopeful that Obama win both the Democratic nomination, and the presidency. I also hope he drags a lot of Democratic congressmen and women along with him. The country could use to have a lot more Democrats to beat up on for a change (not that Republicans let up much during Bush's reign). Perhaps sheer numbers will embolden them to undertake to do what is right, rather than what is politick, along the lines of dismantling the cocoon of despotism Bush has woven about the country.
As much as I despise what the Republicans have conspired to do to our country, it will be necessary to gain their cooperation to set our course aright. That is something for which I believe Obama has a talent. Maybe we'll all begin to remember the promise the word America once held in the world. | |
Name Game
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join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
| Well if you ever face prosecution for any of this Security Spy stuff..give Pete and me a call..we will bail you out.
»news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7378695.stm
been there..done that | |
FiOS Dan
Premium
join:2001-07-06
Redondo Beach, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
·EarthLink
| reply to ross
said by ross :It wasn't long ago that these self-same DSLR fora were the domain of rabid Bushies roundly applauding, and cheering on the insane megalomaniac's military intrusions around the world, lambasting and pillaring anyone who had the temerity to suggest a second thought, or rational reflection in support of our freedoms, and the freedom of others to self-determination, freedom from torture, subjugation and exploitation. We are still here pilgrim but we long ago figured out that there is no reasoning with people who are s-o-o off the wall. But just for old time's sake, let's run down that long list of military "intrusions" around the world--Afghanistan and Iraq. Not so long after all. Comes up a little short on the megalomaniac meter, eh?
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Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.
| |
ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
edit:
May 10th, @03:00PM
| said by FiOS Dan :We are still here pilgrim but we long ago figured out that there is no reasoning with people who are s-o-o off the wall. But just for old time's sake, let's run down that long list of military "intrusions" around the world--Afghanistan and Iraq. Not so long after all. Comes up a little short on the megalomaniac meter, eh? -- Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway. I believe you all STFU around the time the truth became evident, and you had no more lies to trumpet. Attacking and laying waste to Iraq with absolutely no justification is enough to qualify, as far as I'm concerned.
The unnecessary and unwarranted slaughter of 100,000 to 600,000 men, women and children on the basis of a bald-faced lie masking our esteemed egoist's delusional pretension to glory as a "Wartime President", and "Commander in Chief", is a bit insane, IMHO. Do you require more?
As is the extreme paranoia of our exalted executive that has resulted in the dismantling of our Constitutional rights.
So, I expect you to remain quiet while the injury Bush has inflicted on America and the world is redressed.
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Stupidity is enthusiastically riding into catastrophe with your head up the horse's ass that is leading you... | |
Name Game
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join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC | So ross, are we going to fine the telco's for letting President Bush listen to Aunt Martha's chicken dumpling recipe over the phone..or will it just be inadmissable evidence if she is accussed of giving away the family secrets ? | |
FiOS Dan
Premium
join:2001-07-06
Redondo Beach, CA
·Verizon FIOS
·EarthLink
| reply to ross
said by ross :said by FiOS Dan :We are still here pilgrim but we long ago figured out that there is no reasoning with people who are s-o-o off the wall. But just for old time's sake, let's run down that long list of military "intrusions" around the world--Afghanistan and Iraq. Not so long after all. Comes up a little short on the megalomaniac meter, eh? -- Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway. I believe you all STFU around the time the truth became evident, and you had no more lies to trumpet. Attacking and laying waste to Iraq with absolutely no justification is enough to qualify, as far as I'm concerned. The unnecessary and unwarranted slaughter of 100,000 to 600,000 men, women and children on the basis of a bald-faced lie masking our esteemed egoist's delusional pretension to glory as a "Wartime President", and "Commander in Chief", is a bit insane, IMHO. Do you require more? As is the extreme paranoia of our exalted executive that has resulted in the dismantling of our Constitutional rights. So, I expect you to remain quiet while the injury Bush has inflicted on America and the world is redressed. -- Stupidity is enthusiastically riding into catastrophe with your head up the horse's ass that is leading you... Like I said "...s-o-o off the wall." I swore off these wacko paranoid threads a while ago but every now and then I can not resist the temptation to orbit back in and fan the flames a bit. Anyone else care to weigh in on the evil masterminds in Washington? But please, if you do, try to come up with that little detail called a motive for their actions.
--
Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.
| |
mikenolan7
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join:2005-06-07
Torrance, CA
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| The motive is easy. Political power. See Hotel, Watergate or McCarthy, Joseph Raymond or Hoover, J. Edgar. An attitude best summarized by Conan the Barbarian:
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women."
A philosophy not uncommon among those with political ambitions, resulting in a popular belief that said eavesdropping has always, and will always, occur. | |
FiOS Dan
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join:2001-07-06
Redondo Beach, CA
·Verizon FIOS
·EarthLink
| They attacked Afghanistan and Iraq, and they want to listen in on high-risk phone conversations, for political power? So those are Democrats who brought down the WTC and who are hiding in those Middle East caves? 
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Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.
| |
mikenolan7
Premium
join:2005-06-07
Torrance, CA | Which high risk phone calls from or to caves in the Middle East cannot be monitored with a warrant? And I didn't say Republican or Democrat anywhere in my post. There's plenty of ambition to go around. | |
Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
| said by mikenolan7 :Which high risk phone calls from or to caves in the Middle East cannot be monitored with a warrant? And I didn't say Republican or Democrat anywhere in my post. There's plenty of ambition to go around. Better yet give them a phone call and ask if you can listen in or find out their chat schedule..heck maybe they got extra roll over minutes they could share...
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spy1
Welcome to Amerika
Premium
join:2002-06-24
Charlotte, NC
| reply to Name Game
It'll never get to the point of being "evidence" of any type, the FBI and the BATF are spending too much time in a pissing contest with each other to worry about real crime/criminals/terrorists:
(Read the rest of the article here: »www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24549241/ ) -
"FBI, ATF battle for control of cases
In the five years since the FBI and ATF were merged under the Justice Department to coordinate the fight against terrorism, the rival law enforcement agencies have fought each other for control, wasting time and money and causing duplication of effort, according to law enforcement sources and internal documents." | |
Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
edit:
May 10th, @09:13PM
| Yup..it is a mess out there..any evidence gained by eavesdropping on a U.S. citizen is going to be inadmissable in a courtroom ???
I remember reading when this all started to come to a head (don't know who wrote it)..but I saved it
"The Times owners and editors are agitating so appallingly to stop eavesdropping for only one reason only: They hate the Republican Executive Branch enough to hand over control of our government to an imperial judiciary willingly, even eagerly. The civil rights issue they trumpet is a strawman without any real practical significance, a political Potemkin village. Wasn't someone talking about manipulating the Constitution into a "political suicide pact"?
A majority of senators and congressmen frame the issue as a simple one involving the electronic surveillance of the communications of "foreign terrorists," for such communications may at times happen to pass through U.S. communications switches or Internet routers. Who could possibly oppose intercepting and collecting communications to or from those evil "foreign terrorists?"
But how do you tell whether the specific phone call or the specific data transmission (e-mail, web-page download, banking transfer, credit card transaction, Amazon order, PayPal transaction, library book renewal, plane reservation, electronic tax payment, brokerage firm statement, political contribution, medical file, prescription request, packetized phone call) really came from or is going to a foreign recipient (terrorist, foreign national, or U.S. citizen living abroad)--unless you collect virtually everything passing through every telecommunications and Internet pipe? How can you filter on the massive data flow in real time to ensure that just the items of real intelligence interest are extracted?
If the massive data flows cannot be surgically filtered as they occur, what is the alternative? Perhaps the only solution is to use massive arrays of hard drives to collect terabytes, petabytes, and even exabytes of data-in short, to vacuum up virtually all electronic communications with the intent scrutinizing it later using data mining techniques across myriad databases. No doubt such techniques can be of use in intelligence targeting and also in after-the-crime investigations of terrorist incidents.
However, why must the rules regarding U.S. citizens be so lax? Is there intent to use data mining techniques on these massive data bases in order to pursue partisan political gain? Are any contractors, such as BrightPlanet or Booze Allen & Hamilton given access to the massive databases of collected transmissions? Oh, and how about the Republican National Committee and any of its contracting firms that do political microtargeting?
If the link analysis software developed by BrightPlanet, Booze Allen & Hamilton, and the USG itself ever reaches the stage of granularity to permit a query on a particular individual and all of his electronic activities, the government will have acquired virtually total power over that, or any other, individual. Such information can be used for intimidation (hmm, is this why certain senators, such as Specter and Feinstein, so reliably roll over for Bush and Cheney?). But could such information also be sifted and aggregated to identify Republican voters to get them to the polls and to identify Democratic voters to keep them away from the polls? "
**************************
So it boils down to the tools and how they can be used..or even if they will work...and all good questions.
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spy1
Welcome to Amerika
Premium
join:2002-06-24
Charlotte, NC
| reply to ross
said by ross :I am hopeful that Obama win both the Democratic nomination, and the presidency. In Response To A 1996 Independent Voters Of Illinois Questionnaire, Obama Indicated That He Supported Banning The “Manufacture, Sale And Possession Of Handguns.” Question: “Do you support state legislation to … ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns?” Obama’s Response: “Yes.” (Independent Voters Of Illinois Independent Precinct Organization 1996 General Candidate Questionnaire, Barack Obama Responses, 9/9/96)
Scholar John Lott Recalls Obama Stating: “I Don’t Believe That People Should Be Able To Own Guns.” John Lott: “In fact, I knew Obama during the mid-1990s, and his answers to IVI’s question on guns fit well with the Obama that I knew. Indeed, the first time I introduced myself to him he said ‘Oh, you are the gun guy.’ I responded ‘Yes, I guess so.’ He simply responded that ‘I don’t believe that people should be able to own guns.’”
Obama Has Expressed His Opposition To Concealed Carry. Obama: “I mean, I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.” (David Mendell, “Obama Has Center In His Sights,” Chicago Tribune, 4/27/04)
Obama Was Director Of Anti-Gun Joyce Foundation, Which Spent Millions On Gun-Control Causes. “Adding even further skepticism to Obama’s claim of support for the 2nd Amendment is his previous service as a director of the Joyce Foundation. Since 2000, the Joyce Foundation has provided over $15 Million in funding to radical gun control organizations such as the Violence Policy Center and the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence. The Joyce Foundation is tightly linked to the Soros Open Society Institute -- an extremist group that advocates a worldwide ban on civilian firearm ownership.” (Illinois State Rifle Association, “ISRA Blasts Candidate Obama On His Record Of Hostility Toward Law-Abiding Firearm Owners,” Press Release, 8/24/04)
In 2003, Obama Voted In Support Of Legislation That “Would Have Banned Most Of The Privately Held Hunting Shotguns, Target Rifles, And Black Powder Rifles” In Illinois. “[i]n 2003, Obama voted in support of SB1195, which, if passed, would have banned most of the privately held hunting shotguns, target rifles, and black powder rifles in the state. If the ban was enacted, law enforcement officials would have been authorized to forcibly enter private homes to confiscate newly banned firearms.” (Illinois State Rifle Association, “ISRA Blasts Candidate Obama On His Record Of Hostility Toward Law-Abiding Firearm Owners,” Press Release, 8/24/04)
Obama Supported Banning “The Sale Or Transfer Of All Forms Of Semi-Automatic Weapons.” According to his responses to an Illinois State Legislative Election 1998 National Political Awareness Test, Obama pledged to “Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.” (Project Vote Smart Website, www.votesmart.org, Accessed 3/5/08)
Running For The U.S. Senate In 2004, Obama Advocated National Gun-Control Legislation. “On the issue of prohibiting citizens from carrying concealed weapons, Obama said he believes national legislation should be passed to ‘prevent other states’ laws [allowing citizens to conceal their guns] from threatening the safety of Illinois residents.’” (John Chase, “Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns,” Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04)
In 2005, Obama Voted Twice To Hold Manufacturers, Distributors, Dealers And Importers Of Firearms And Ammunition Liable For The Acts Of Criminals. (S. 397, CQ Vote #206: Motion Agreed To 66-32: R 53-1; D 13-30; I 0-1, 7/26/05, Obama Voted Nay; S. 397, CQ Vote #219: Passed 65-31: R 50-2; D 14-29; I 1-0, 7/29/05, Obama Voted Nay)
In 2004, Obama Voted Against Self-Defense Rights. “[Obama] opposed letting people use a self-defense argument if charged with violating local handgun bans by using weapons in their homes. The bill was a reaction to a Chicago-area man who, after shooting an intruder, was charged with a handgun violation.” (“Obama Record May Be Gold Mine For Critics,” The Associated Press, 1/17/07)
Obama Believes The DC Gun Ban Is Constitutional. “Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constitutional.” (James Oliphant and Michael J. Higgins, “Court To Hear Gun Case,” Chicago Tribune, 11/20/07)
Obama Has Received “F” Ratings From The National Rifle Association:
In 2004, 2002 And 1998, Obama Received “F” Ratings From The National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund. The NRA has given Obama 3 “F’s.” (National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund Website, www.nrapvf.org, Accessed 1/8/08; National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund Website, www.nrapvf.org, Accessed 1/8/08; 1998 Illinois National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund Political Preference Chart, p.2) | |
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