nomaad
join:2007-10-20
Costa Rica
| Bursting
I have heard people refer to burst speeds on their networks and I'm not really sure what they are talking about, but if its one of the things I suspect it may be, I think I want to implement it on our network.
The network consists of RB333/XR5 backhaul, with RB333/XR2 Ap's and UBNT NS and PS CPE's.
We have very limited bandwidth at the moment, (16mbits of shdsl cobbled together in 4mbit and 2mbit lines. If bursting means that each client would be limited to download at a certain bandwidth (say, 128-256kbps down) but have the ability to burst to say, 1meg when surfing- thats what I am looking for.
So my questions are: Is this possible? Is it a server-side function or are my APs and CPEs capable of this function? I am digging into the radios now to find out for myself, but the help and pointers offered in this forum have always proved to move along my process.
Thanks. |
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viperm
Carpe Diem
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Winchester, CA
edit:
May 10th, @10:50AM
| Why not set up PCQ in the core mikrotik router.
This way say you have 6 megs coming in and 2 megs going out.
The mikrotik would then equally share that bandwidth based on usage from your clients.
I.E. 6 megs 1 user that user gets to use all 6 megs 2 users come on they equally share the 6 megs for a total of 3 megs each 3 users come online then they equally share the 6 meg pipe and get 2 megs each and on and on and on...
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ComTrain Certified Tower Climber. American Tower Certified approved contractor. Wireless consultants. |
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nomaad
join:2007-10-20
Costa Rica
| very interesting solution. Does this impose a hard limitation on each IP or is it a dynamic thing? Like, what if i have 6 megs and 60 clients? are they each hard limited to .1mbit? That would not do.
When you say the "core MT router" do you mean the individual AP's or the first MT router on the backhaul?
thanks. |
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viperm
Carpe Diem
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Winchester, CA
| reply to nomaad
I would say the mikrotik where all your bandwith comes in. If bandwidth comes in at different APs then each AP you would configure for how much bandwidth each AP is capable of getting to it..
The PCQ is dynamic it is not static. The thing is it all goes back to over subscription I can almost guarentee 100% not all 60 users will be online at the same time. This is why some people can use a T-1 for 30+ people and still offer 1.5 down or less etc...
I do it with a college campus with a 3 meg up down T-1 connection and they have not had any issues and they have over 250 students at this dorm area. Yes the bandwidth peaks but all users are equally sharing the bandwidth not one person has more then is available..
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ComTrain Certified Tower Climber. American Tower Certified approved contractor. Wireless consultants. |
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nomaad
join:2007-10-20
Costa Rica
| This sounds brilliant. I like the idea a lot, but I see some problems in implementing it within our current offerings of service plan.
we're offering 3 different services. 128, 256 and 512kbps. It would be impossible to use the PCQ at the same time as limiting individual connections. In other words, if all acounts receive the same sevice (their equal share of available bandwidth at the moment) why would anybody opt for the 512 kbps plan at higher cost.
Off the top of my head I am thinking that perhaps a 4th plan might be what is needed. A "Power User" plan or something... which is marketed as "As much bandwidth as the system has to offer..." something like that.
Any thoughts?
Apparently we have gone off topic. I am still very ineterested in understanding bursting. |
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viperm
Carpe Diem
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Winchester, CA
edit:
May 10th, @12:10PM
| reply to nomaad
I think there are other ways to use PCQ with individual plans as well but not sure. It all depeneds on what you are trying to do. If you have individual plans then stick with that and do simple queues and do the bursting which is under the queues options.
If you want to look at the burst option look at the queue tree then click on simple queu tab then add. Within that window you have tabs across the top click on general and on that screen you have some pull downs labled burst.
This would generally be where you would create a queue for each user and put their burts options there..
--
ComTrain Certified Tower Climber. American Tower Certified approved contractor. Wireless consultants. |
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LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
edit:
May 10th, @02:00PM
| The problem I see with opening up and then arbitrating versus capping and bursting is that of managing expectations. Once users see that at times it is fast, will start to complain when things slow down due to arbitration.
IMHO, a user that is sold a 256k package that is allowed to burst will be better throttled and prevented from becoming a heavy user and his/her expectations rising. There's an old saying that it's hard to keep the boy on the farm once he's see Paris.
At my house, I was getting service from another WISP that at first had a fixed rate of 512k plus bursting and then later took off the cap. The service went through wild swings as users gobbled up the free bandwidth.
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Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey |
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viperm
Carpe Diem
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Winchester, CA
| reply to nomaad
Like I stated earlier it depends on the situation. We have unknown amount of clients at the college we set this up at and they have a 3 meg connection. It could go from 20-30 students to 250+ students.
The PCQ worked well for us as this is not a pay as you go or pay for service system the college gives the wireless as part of living in the dorms.
--
ComTrain Certified Tower Climber. American Tower Certified approved contractor. Wireless consultants. |
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tx_tower
join:2007-11-13
Blanco, TX
| i would suggest setting up a simple queue in your MT bandwidth manager for each individual ip(I know its time consuming, ive done it with over 1000 ip's) and set the burst limit to unlimited for a certain number of seconds, 5-10 is sufficient, this will normally allow customer who are surfing or downloading email attatchments to get about 1-1.5megs down and then it will limit them to their designated speed tier so you dont have them hogging the network yet their surfing experience is greatly improved. |
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ponline
join:2004-03-04
presheva
| 'Equal Bandwidth sharing' with pcq it is very usable for companies or institutions with big number of computers, and not a constant number of online computers.
But IMO i don't think it is usable in ISP bussines. I think if you set them on Equal sharing, the user wont be able to know what kind of subscription speed he has, it will vary from low speed to very high speed. And you wont be able to sell different packets based on speed.
Bursting in the other side is very usable, it gives users better speed for surfing or even watching a small video, while it will lower their speed after some a given time if the download doesnt stop.
You even can advertise packets with your bursted speed, if you allow 60 or more seconds bursting, people wont notice that they have lower speed than the first 60 seconds. They surf with bursted speed all the time, the small downloads will finish for 1-2 minutes, every bandwidth test takes less than 60 sec, and you can always blame on the slow servers from the other side(if) they download bigger files :P |
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nomaad
join:2007-10-20
Costa Rica
edit:
May 11th, @01:14PM
| said by ponline  :You even can advertise packets with your bursted speed, if you allow 60 or more seconds bursting, people wont notice that they have lower speed than the first 60 seconds. They surf with bursted speed all the time, the small downloads will finish for 1-2 minutes, every bandwidth test takes less than 60 sec, and you can always blame on the slow servers from the other side(if) they download bigger files :P That's an interesting way to look at it. is it ethical to sell a 1.5mbps connection that will only sustain a 256k dload? A minute of high speeds really does constitute a blazing connection for anybody besides abusers anyway.
is it possible to set certain users a higher burst speed that others? like this:
*128/64kbps (Bursting to 512kbps):* $../month
*256/128kbps **(Bursting to 768kbps)**: *$../month
*512/256kbps **(Bursting to 1024kbps)**:* $../month |
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LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON | A new use for the "Up to" disclaimer. |
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Killler Maxxx
@rr.com | reply to nomaad
It's gonna make the busy times of the day seem sluggish. It takes 4 or 5 seconds to slow a stream down. If all of your spare capacity is being bursted out, it will add a lot of delay to page loads of higher QOS class traffic. |
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gzerphey
join:2008-05-08
Willowbrook, IL
| reply to nomaad
Bursting can actually decrease the amount of bandwidth your customers use on your network. The concept is the allow an increased amount of traffic for a short period of time so users spend less time downloading. IE if the customer can get that 11mb file in 2 minutes of burst traffic rather then 10 minutes of non-burst then that bandwidth is freed up for the next person to utilize it. I have seen it implimented a couple different ways and it has always had a positive effect.
I'm currently working with a company called PowerCode that is primarily used for customer control and automated billing, but it can also do bandwidth limiting per customer. Part of that is a burst limit that can be setup for x amount of seconds that will allow them to access say 1meg of traffic then drop back down to the 512K that they are paying for. It is extremely useful and allows you to set different limits per customer.
There are a couple different systems that work like this and I would definitely recommend looking into one. It will make your life a lot easier then trying to mangle a Mikrotik.
Just my two cents.
-- George |
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tx_tower
join:2007-11-13
Blanco, TX
| said by gzerphey :Bursting can actually decrease the amount of bandwidth your customers use on your network. The concept is the allow an increased amount of traffic for a short period of time so users spend less time downloading. IE if the customer can get that 11mb file in 2 minutes of burst traffic rather then 10 minutes of non-burst then that bandwidth is freed up for the next person to utilize it. I have seen it implimented a couple different ways and it has always had a positive effect. I'm currently working with a company called PowerCode that is primarily used for customer control and automated billing, but it can also do bandwidth limiting per customer. Part of that is a burst limit that can be setup for x amount of seconds that will allow them to access say 1meg of traffic then drop back down to the 512K that they are paying for. It is extremely useful and allows you to set different limits per customer. There are a couple different systems that work like this and I would definitely recommend looking into one. It will make your life a lot easier then trying to mangle a Mikrotik. Just my two cents. -- George do u have a link to these powercode people?? I would be interested to see what they offer |
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gzerphey
join:2008-05-08
Willowbrook, IL | Yes I do. Here you go: »www.powercode.com
Please contact me off list if you would like more information.
-- George |
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decke
join:2007-12-22
indonesia
| some people here mention that your products is buggy, and some said that if they need support, it will ended by $_$?
What do you think?
Im trialing billmax as our automated billing server, but open with better choice.
And how about the price? |
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tx_tower
join:2007-11-13
Blanco, TX | hmm i think ill stick to my mikrotik |
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gzerphey
join:2008-05-08
Willowbrook, IL
| reply to decke
I'm afraid I am not sure what you are talking about. I have been working with them for some time now and any problems I have had they have been more the helpful in resolving. Calling the code "buggy" is a bit harsh and, I feel, undeserved.
Again, feel free to contact me off list if you have questions. |
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wizunwired
Premium
join:2008-04-08
Algoma, WI
| reply to decke
Some of the bad wrap powercode as gotten is due to the fact that they had some restructuring going on beginning of 2007. They have since resovled those issues are now using Image Stream as there Bandwidth management units rather than trying to support linux boxes that they had no control over. They have had a few issues with the code - but nothing that totatlly shuts you down and for the money I don't think you can find an out of the box solution that will do monitoring/alerting, billing, bandwidth management, authentication. I originally looked at Mikrotik but with the fact that I already run full time as a computer/network tech I needed a system with little thought - powercode fit that bill. |
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