cjhorh
join:2002-01-16
Worcester, MA
| [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ads
I just received a letter from Charter informing me of an "enhancement" that I find very disturbing. They are going to monitor the websites I visit and the searches I perform, and substitute their own ads for the ones that would otherwise be displayed on the page. The privacy implications of this are obvious. Although Charter claims that my personal information will remain confidential and that my online activity will never be linked to my personal identity, I find that completely disingenuous. There is no way the system can work without tying it to my IP or MAC address, which is inextricably linked to my identity.
There are also performance implications. If the system is analyzing every page download and substituting its own ad server links for the ones originally in the page, what is the performance hit? Do we really think Charter is going to invest in more network equipment to compensate for this?
Finally, I have to believe that ad-supported website publishers are also disturbed by this and hope they will communicate this to Charter (FWIW).
The letter does mention that you can opt out via setting a cookie by going to »www.charter.com/onlineprivacy.
More information is at »www.charter.com/onlineadvertising. |
|
AMDUSER
Premium
join:2003-05-28
Earth
clubs: | Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad
It very closely resembles Phorm..
»ISP Based Contextual Advertising |
|
cjhorh
join:2002-01-16
Worcester, MA | Actually, looks like it's NebuAD. See »Ask DSLReports.com: What Is NebuAD? |
|
AMDUSER
Premium
join:2003-05-28
Earth
clubs: | You're right..
It does resemble the Embarq annoucement posted in that news article. (Posted by a user:)»Re: Here is an interview with Nebuad's CEO . |
|
dslhater
Premium
join:2001-09-24
Chicopee, MA
clubs:
edit:
May 10th, @07:35PM
| reply to cjhorh
OPT out at »www.charter.com/onlineprivacy must be done each time you clear you're cookies.
--
dream your dreams with open eyes and make them come true... |
|
mmainprize
join:2001-12-06
Houghton Lake, MI
edit:
May 10th, @11:51PM
| reply to cjhorh
That is why many are changeing to something like this.
»archetwist.com/en/opera/operator
it will allow you to not be traced while surfing but may not this type of data collection at the ISP??
Also i don't like the fact that to op out, you have to give your customer info over and over again for each PC user and for each PC, and every time you delete cookies or cashe |
|
Havicaz
join:2001-07-17
Ballwin, MO | reply to cjhorh
Someone should digg this. |
|
cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI
edit:
May 11th, @10:53AM
| reply to cjhorh
Hmm? Don't think I'm liking the looks or sound of this!
Possibly PHishy? |
|
dkmcrae
join:2000-11-06
Covington, LA
| reply to cjhorh
Apparently, Charter is not providing this "enhancement" in my area - yet! After filling out the form, I got this:
"Charter Communications is not providing enhanced online advertising services in your area at this time. Should Charter launch such a program in your area, you will be notified in advance. At that time you will need to revisit this page and opt-out of the program."
--
Mac |
|
mmainprize
join:2001-12-06
Houghton Lake, MI
| Ya i got the same thing in my area.
And like cork, Don't like the looks of the things i have been hearing about lately.
If the ISP's start changing thses thinks it will change the way the whole internet bussness modle is setup. With the new caps and priate filter etc.. it is going to be some fighting going on.
Everbody wants the money  |
|
MrFixit1
join:1999-11-26
Madison, WI
edit:
May 11th, @10:04PM
| reply to cjhorh
"substitute their own ads for the ones that would otherwise be displayed on the page"
I can just see the lawsuits that would lead to !
As far as I know , no one has had the guts to substitute adds yet . Add yes , but not substitute .
Seeing as how the original add has paid the originating site for the placement , if Charter strips the add and replaces it with their own someone is being defrauded ! |
|
scoosdad
join:2007-04-28
Worcester, MA
edit:
May 12th, @04:02AM
| reply to cjhorh
And the thing that irritated me the most about the letter is how they tried to make this sound as if it was some kind of positive thing (just like the cheerful "we're raising rates again, but you're getting a better television experience!" letters):
"I'm writing to inform you of an enhancement coming soon to your web browsing experience... While continuing to deliver the same fast and reliable internet service you've always received, innovative new technology enables Charter to provide you with an enhanced online experience that is more customized to your interests and activities. As a result, the advertising that you typically see online will better reflect the interests you express thorugh your web-surfing activities. You will not see more ads - just ads that are more relevant to you." It then continues by reassuring the customer that personal info will remain confidential and that online activity will never be linked to your individual identity through this service. It goes on to explain the onerous opt-out process.
The letter is signed by Joe Stackhouse, Senior Vice President, Customer Operations. [this is not a phishing thing, this was sent via US Mail and had my usual Charter mail-to address block and barcodes on it. Charter has my address slightly wrong and it was wrong the same way in this letter too.]
Note the phrase "You will not see more ads - just ads that are more relevant". That sounds to me as if they'll be substituting these ads for existing ones. This is wrong on so many levels. Someone else already mentioned how advertisers who paid someone else for ad placement possibly getting the heave-ho for Charter ads, unless they're only talking about their own ad placement in the first place on charter-branded websites such as charter.net, charter.com. Google does this now.
Opt-out consists of a webpage which collects your name, address, Charter account number, home phone number etc. I wondered how much of that opt-out registration info ends up in the cookie or linked to the cookie itself. Seems to me that in order to set a user-side thing like this cookie, you shouldn't need to provide that kind of information.
And guess what: according to the info in my browser's Tools-Options-Privacy-Cookies, the cookie that the opt-out webpage sets (look for connect.charter.com, cookie is named "knanpro"), that cookie expires on its own in exactly one year from when it's set. So if you don't mark your calendar for next year and go back in to opt-out again, you'll be served those ads anyway unless they have some innovative way of updating the cookie on its own.
One more reason to dump them. I'm testing Verizon DSL and liking it more and more. Once I dump the Charter internet service, I no longer have a reason to keep their cable service either. I guess they don't realize that when they give internet subscribers a reduced rate for also having Charter cable, they shoot themselves in both corporate feet when they pull stuff like this and drive people away from the internet side. Once you find an alternative internet provider, the incentive to also have cable TV from them is gone too.
--
Worcester MA
Charter Pipeline 5M/Verizon DSL 3M
Charter digital cable with HD
Vonage VOIP phone
ICIA CTS-D
|
|
clickie
join:2005-05-22
Monroe, MI
| reply to cjhorh
This is just wonderful as I signed up for Charter HSI after Verizon began sucking so badly.
I don't think they are going to replace ads on web pages. I think the plan of Phorm and Nebuad is to simply become another competitor to Google Adwords where the site signs up with these people as an ad revenue stream.
However, that doesn't excuse the gross misconduct of Charter doing deep packet inspection of its customers data and selling that information to a third party. Their opt-out process is ridiculous and does nothing to stop the collection of the data.
I think there needs to be a four-pronged approach to combating this kind of privacy problem.
First, there needs to be pressure put on Charter (and any ISP) to just abandon this concept. If it comes to my area, which I am sure it will, I will cancel immediately. Customers with a choice of another ISP who don't like this need to vote with their feet. Parallel to this, there needs to be a lot of letters written to the FTC and FCC about this issue. This is going to start like every other privacy erosion, they'll start small and ratchet it up over time.
The second attack needs to come with the press. Print media still holds the internet in a light as an instrument of democracy, and with the right editorial people, they can inflict a lot of public relations damage. Technology writers and maybe savy technology TV news reporters should know about this immediately.
Third, web sites that you visit who use these services need to be informed that using them will result in a privacy problem for their users. Of course, many web sites won't care, but those that do care will do the right thing and bail on using these types of services for revenue generation.
Finally, some way needs to be created that simply makes the data these people collect full of noise. I don't know if it's a screen saver that constantly runs out to Google and does random searches based upon dictionary words, but something needs to fill the databases with meaningless data. Once that happens, those who use Phorm and Nebuad will realize that this method has become nothing special and hopefully, the business will fail.
I have a serious problem with deep packet inspection of my data. There is no reason some outfit in California should be able to peek inside my searches on Google, my email on Yahoo, the IMs my kids send or any of my other data. And they say now that they'll respect your privacy in certain ways, but when it suits them, I'm sure Charter will cough up your name and address at the drop of a hat. |
|
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
edit:
May 12th, @09:03AM
| said by clickie  :I don't think they are going to replace ads on web pages. I think the plan of Phorm and Nebuad is to simply become another competitor to Google Adwords where the site signs up with these people as an ad revenue stream. No you have it wrong. They plan on repalcing ads. Ads that people have PAID to be placed on sites. If I'm a site owner I don't wants my vistiotrs seein ads that I didn't ask to be on my site. If I have Adwords ads on my site I'm not getting paid if they are replaced or are in competition with ads that have no business being on my site.
This is why ISPs should ONLY be a "dumb pipe" otherwise they get stupid ideas like this in their heads. Sorry Charter I'm paying you $50 a month to provide me interent access and that's all. And that $50 is more than enough to cover that expense. I'll find my content and advertising on my own.
Boy the ISPs sure know how to screw up a good thing. |
|
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to MrFixit1
said by MrFixit1 :"substitute their own ads for the ones that would otherwise be displayed on the page" I can just see the lawsuits that would lead to ! As far as I know , no one has had the guts to substitute adds yet . Add yes , but not substitute . Seeing as how the original add has paid the originating site for the placement , if Charter strips the add and replaces it with their own someone is being defrauded ! Even if the orginal ad is not getting replaced it now has more competiton. Competition that DID NOT pay for placement. Google is NOT going to be pleased about this. They would lose revenue with people clicking Charter's ads instead of adwords ads. I do not think Charter should incur Google's wrath. |
|
haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA | reply to cjhorh
Got the same letter in Charlton, MA.
GOD! I Hate this Damn Company! |
|
clickie
join:2005-05-22
Monroe, MI
| reply to BF69
I disagree. As much as I am hopeful this is the case, I can't see the legal team at Charter being party to such an act that infringes so blatantly. But, we'll disagree for now and see what happens.
As far as the dumb pipe goes, this is an interesting take on their plans:
»www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/us···00-.html
Which means, if the ECPA of '86 hasn't been sufficiently wounded (I'm checking), Nebuad and Phorm can't accept the deep packet inspect data because it's illegal to have wire communications intercepted. Period. |
|
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to cjhorh
This stuff should be opt-IN not opt-OUT. Why do you have to submit your full name and address and crap to opt out?
Screw all that how about I just hunt down all cookies having to do with Charter and deleting them?
Also the FAQ says you won't see more ads. That can only hapen if they are taking away ads that are already meant to be on the page you are looking at. What right does Charter have to do that? Don't be shocked when site that rely on ads to make money start blovking ISPs that do this crap. I would. A visitor to my site that can't see my ads is of no use to me. He just wastes my bandwidth and costs me money. |
|
ant2305
@charter.com | reply to cjhorh
This is just charters DNS hijack they started a year ago in some areas, if you use some other DNS server you won't be effected. |
|
Sikmaz
join:2002-04-13
Greenville, SC
 ·Charter Pipeline
 ·ViaTalk
| said by ant2305 :
This is just charters DNS hijack they started a year ago in some areas, if you use some other DNS server you won't be effected.
No, this is more than that. It is deep packet inspection to inject/replace ads on some websites with ads charter serves that it injects based on your browsing habits. This is pretty messed up imo... |
|
