Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad in Charter HSI/CATV http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20462787 en Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:41:50 EDT Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:41:50 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20927822 anon : lol@ replying to three month old comments. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20927822 Sun, 10 Aug 2008 06:56:03 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20926705 Robert Morrisson : Why twelve months? Why not forever?

Should it be necessary for the consumer to notify every company they deal with that they do not want to receive advertising, or credit card offers, or whatever.

Why not make it encumbent on the company to secure permission before providing the service. If they had to do this I suspect no one would opt in. That is why they want to force you to opt out.

Congress set the stage for this with the bank privacy statements. It was discovered that they were selling your information without permission. Our brilliant elected representatives said that all that was needed to correct the problem was to allow those who did NOT want this to happen to opt out of it.

Now we have opt-out for everything. The sneaky marketers can come up with new schemes faster than you or I can opt out of them.

It was the Republican Congress that gave the OK to this. It was the Democratic President Clinton that signed off on it. The public was screwed, but at least it was a bi-partisan screwing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20926705 Sat, 09 Aug 2008 21:07:01 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20926688 Robert Morrisson : Verizon is playing games with their FiOS service. They are hijacking your browser to intercept improper DNS requests and turning them into a search.

If you enter a Web address incorrectly, instead of getting an error, and a chance to correct it, you now get a search window with the wrong information entered, along with a note asking if you want to search for it.

The address bar will be filled with a mega-URL filled that makes it impossible to simply correct the original error.

No doubt Verizon makes money sending people to various Websites. I flat WILL NOT search from a forced search bar from Verizon, MSN, or anyone. This whole concept of hijacking DNS is getting out of control.

Verizon said it is more convenient and many people like it. I suspect they just put up with it. I demanded an explanation from them as to why they saw fit to alter my browsing and was promised one. Hell will freeze over before they reply.

I was given a fix to eliminate the problem, one that involves changing the DNS servers in the router. The problem is that I must then enter all of the other information manually, including the IP address. If that changes my router will suddenly die until I manually update it.

When will the ISPs learn that most of us want to have an IP socket and good service, without being forced to see yet more annoying ads or being forced into a search bar.

If I can't trust them for basic services such as DNS, why trust them with anythine else?

BTW - FiOS has been excellent and Verizon has been quite good to deal with. But someone needs to put a stop to this practice of hijacking DNS for profit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20926688 Sat, 09 Aug 2008 21:00:33 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20563663 haplo2112 : You go back and get another one, and then another and then another. They are counting on you to eventually forget.

Charter just like every other company is EVIL, pure EVIL, CEO's are the devil. Having to buy services from them is ever lasting torment in HELL.

Burn 'em all to the ground, Slaughter the executives for pig feed, give the land back to the Native Americans, and the rest of us can all go native.

Seriously I give up its all hopeless. We the consumers and citizens of America are doomed to ever lasting torment and servitude, our government no longer cares for our needs and desires. Politicians only listen to and care about what the corporations want. We the people no longer matter. Its either give in and be crushed by their boot heels, or start the revolution, and I don't think I have the revolution in me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20563663 Fri, 30 May 2008 12:58:59 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20561543 wombatclov : So did anyone actually look at the cookie? It expires November 28th of 2008! Then what happens?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20561543 Fri, 30 May 2008 00:28:09 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20518613 raw : "....and a local government that won't let us cherry pick"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20518613 Wed, 21 May 2008 16:20:43 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20517405 haplo2112 : Read between the lines...

"too big a market with huge low income areas that will not effectively make us any money"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20517405 Wed, 21 May 2008 12:41:53 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20517175 jarablue : Yes I know. That is my point. No one wants to come here. And Charter laps it up.

The odd thing is Worcester is too big a market but NY is not for Verizon? Makes no sense.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20517175 Wed, 21 May 2008 12:02:40 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20516091 vaxvms :
said by jarablue See Profile :

If FIOS or anything competitive came to Worcester, Charter would pull their franchise in Mass.
[OT]
Worcester renewed its contract with Charter in March. No other ISP was interested in bidding.
Verizon FiOS ain't gonna happen. When asked about Verizon moving into Worcester, Phil Santoro, a spokesman for Verizon, says that at this point, the company considers Worcester too big a market.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20516091 Wed, 21 May 2008 07:19:19 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20515569 jarablue : If FIOS or anything competitive came to Worcester, Charter would pull their franchise in Mass. They are hated to the point of please come someone, anyone HELP! mentaility here.

Charter year after year, on a almost scheduled basis, sticks it's head up it's ass.

Who the hell is the CEO of Charter nowadays? Is it still Mr let me come into the helpdesk for 1 hour, smile then leave guy?

Charter wake the hell up. Your customers do not want you to do this. Guess what? You know what we want? Better service, faster speeds, latency, content, infrastructure. VOD that actually works etc. But you have no idea how to do this because in doing that, would mean doing what your customers really want...and that is a no no and costs $$

Doing what's best for the company is actually a step backwards to you, Charter.

Christ. Can this company suck to any lower level? Ugh.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20515569 Wed, 21 May 2008 00:56:15 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20513300 anon : I am in the affected Charter area of Oxford.

Now that my internet usage information is being sold by Charter, I would like my free internet service now!

I keep seeing the cable/internet bill rising substantially above inflation y/y (7+ years), not decreasing.

I've got no choice for internet service providers.

HELP!!!!!!

The cookie opt-out method is crap! It is limited to computer user account and device. Good luck trying to get all your computers and user accounts to work with the cookie opt-out method.

They make it on purpose obviously making it difficult so that users fail - you can't even check the status of it to see they got it correct or if it is operating properly,
They can just say "something must have gone wrong" - besides but no one will ever know; there is absolutely no oversight to this.

BTW - you've got to provide them with information to opt-out - it is not enough to determine where your communications are coming from which would be obvious)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20513300 Tue, 20 May 2008 16:45:13 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20510729 anon :
said by clickie See Profile :

You have the wrong idea on what is going on here. Nebuad takes your web browsing history, generates a bunch of categories it thinks you'd be receptive to seeing ads about, and then uses that database coupled with your unique "ID" (ostensibly generated from the MAC address of your cable modem) and then sells that information to advertising syndication services *like* Google Adwords, *like* Valueclick. Those people pay a premium for having the targeting information. Charter isn't overwriting anyone's ad space.
I would have to agree with you on this. there is no invasion of privacy. Charter doesn't care to have any sort of personal information, nor do we want it. Plus, what are you people searching for on the internet that has everyone so up in arms? I wouldn't care if my ISP started doing this, and they probably will soon, as every ISP will start following this as well. If I search for something, I wants to best and most related articles/ads to come up fist so I don't have to search through 60 pages of links and ads to find what I was looking for exactly. Call me lazy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20510729 Tue, 20 May 2008 09:08:35 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20506230 haplo2112 : Our town Charlton is re-doing the franchise agreement, if anyone else around here is from Charlton perhaps it might be a good idea to suggest to the town that either we not renew Charter and invite other companies in to talk; or that language be added that town of Charlton residents not be tracked for any and all purposes. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20506230 Mon, 19 May 2008 12:53:32 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20499584 pbarrow : Well I don't expect it to do any good - but I emailed the 2 articles here about Charter and Broadstripe and "deep packet inspection" to several of the TV news organizations suggesting they do a news report on it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20499584 Sat, 17 May 2008 21:16:50 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497706 anon : I think it great that anon posters (and most likely employees) from TDS and Centurytel are here posting, considering they are Charter's main cometion where I live. I don't blame them for trying to cash in on this. I found an interesting article on the net

»www.boingboing.net/2008/05/15/an···fou.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497706 Sat, 17 May 2008 12:02:26 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497252 clickie : There's a hole in the argument that this Nebuad concept does not link you personally. That's false.

The whole idea behind Nebuad is to assist people in getting you to buy things. So if you click on an ad, I'm certain that feedback is given to Nebuad. You go to the merchant, who may or may not know you via your hashed id, and the second you buy something, they know who you are.

So while Charter may not provide personally identifiable information, the premise that over time Nebuad doesn't know your identity is suspect. These marketing companies love to keep data and share data, and I'm certain that they all know who you are the second you purchase something used by an ad from their servers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20497252 Sat, 17 May 2008 09:22:36 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20491975 haplo2112 : »craphound.com/littlebrother/

Good book relevant to the topic in many ways.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20491975 Fri, 16 May 2008 09:36:01 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490964 mosxs : Well, if this rolls out nationwide, I'll definitely be canceling my Charter service.

Even if I have to pay Verizon $50 a month for 1.5Mbps DSL on Dry Loop while I wait for FiOS.

I'm certainly not giving Charter my money to spy on me. If they want to insert ads then they need to drop the price of the service significantly. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490964 Fri, 16 May 2008 00:57:10 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490789 anon : I say we start using:
»www.antiphorm.com/page_software.htm
on Charter. It simulates random surfing to mux up their stats.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490789 Fri, 16 May 2008 00:11:26 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490761 anon : to those who think "I don't have anything to hide" or think that their opt out is sufficient... read on:

Charter is placing 3rd party snooping servers between YOU and the INTERNET. ALL traffic will get inspected, recorded, logged.. ALL traffic. REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU OPT OUT OR NOT.

OPTing out simply means that the third party advertiser won't deliver the "super-ultra-targeted" ads to you; you'd still see whatever ad was originally going to display anyway... they will still get to see and record all your internet traffic. Note the "cookie based" opt out would only be (marginally) effective as a method of tracking 'opt out status' (for targeted ad display) on port 80; the standard web (http) port.. mail, NNTP, ftp, torrents, non-standard web ports, irc, etc... all still subject to total surveillance...

Current technology on the 'deep inspection' and analysis front is very sophisticated and very capable, which will give Charter very solid data on which they could build discriminatory and anticompetitive traffic shaping rules (for their next "enhancement").

EVEN if all they log for eternity is clickstreams.. URLs contain search terms; and often contain usernames and/or passwords or other sensitive data.. besides the obvious of identifying every single specific web page, graphic, media file, etc. your browser accesses. Cookies and httpauth credentials are transferred on every page view which uses either of those items.

The 'prefetch' feature in some browsers can even cause items to be archived and logged that you never did specifically request and/or view.. and those could be potentially harmful or at the very least, embarrassing.

Law enforcement will be drooling over this.. Imagine internet providers willfully logging and archiving all their user's internet traffic... makes their goal of total surveillance that much easier; no red tape or pesky constitution getting in the way of their prize, and they can just use an NSL or claim 'terrorist investigation' and get what they want WITHOUT a WARRANT at all.

INNOCENT PEOPLE are targeted by "investigations" all the time. Just because you think you have nothing to hide or nothing to worry about.. doesn't make it so! Just look at the "no fly list"-- how many thousands of innocent people are on that list? (answer: lots) how many more (thousands upon thousands) people with similar or same names as those on the list are also affected? (answer: lots more)

Remember that AOL search log fiasco awhile ago? that was just search terms and supposedly 'anonymized' id's; yet many personal, sensitive, and at times, embarrassing details where in there.. and some of those were able to be tracked back to the original individual. What Charter is doing, and allowing to be done on their network, is FAR, FAR WORSE.

since the very early days of commercial internet access, people have been renting 'dumb pipes' --- internet access today must return to that status... broadband is 'big dumb pipes'.. period. the users don't want broken DNS servers making money for ISPs off the user's typos... and users do NOT WANT TO BE SPIED ON BY ANYONE, regardless of reason or intent.

**IF** broadband providers cannot "make enough money" on the packages they're selling if they simply provide 'big dumb pipes' -- then those packages need to be adjusted, both for speed and price. Charter: a 16 mbit connection should cost a tad bit more than just 10 bucks a month more than a 3 mbit connection.. ya think?

a nickel here, a dime there (for insane speed upgrades), and discontinuing the much slower speeds (and lower rates) that most people actually WANT, are what got you into the bandwidth bind in the first place..... con, trick or force people into the fastest speed you got then you better EXPECT that speed to be used.. sheesh. it's just farkin COMMON SENSE. charge enough to not go bankrupt... and with just one primary competitor (the local telco) in any given market, it shouldn't be that friggin hard... for every person that's PO'd at a cable company, you'll find one that's equally PO'd at the telco.. the former will flock to the telco, the latter to the cable company..

SELLING OUT via poisoned and broken DNS, and via selling your customers' online soul ARE NOT WORTH IT. an across the board rate hike of $5.00 (that'd be a SMALL one for you guys... our last hikes were two consecutive $20 ones; $41 extra/mo when it finally settled down) would more than make up for those and whatever other messed up ideas you got brewing. BUT, i'd rather see a return of the 384 kbit and 1.5 mbit speeds for $15 and $25.. as people migrate back to the slower speeds, including some of the more price-conscious 'heavy users, the network congestion will ease (but then there isn't a bandwidth crunch in many markets..... so you might even be able to scale back on your upstream connections).

once people settle in on the slower speeds, you RAISE the price on the "troublesome" fastest speeds, where the heavy users and abusers are.. they'll either cough up the cash, downgrade, or they'll leave.. if they leave, then you don't have to worry anymore either (you weren't making any money off them anyway, so what difference would it have been: status quo where you were losing money on 'em or lose the customer and not lose any more money).

** the above is based on 'worst case' scenario.. where charter, the third party 'provider' and government cannot be trusted... which, of course, they cannot be.. not really... not to watch out for your interest or mine.. they could care less. all they care about is their bottom lines and absolute control.

so you decide.. is the above more likely, or is this: strict privacy policies that are adhered to, data retention is modest, with proper secure data wiping techniques being employed... the companies involved fight off requests for data/warrants to protect their users... servers and data centers comply with security standards similar to hipaa, sas70, etc... opt out really means you opt out, completely... prices not going up (again), or actually go down, because of the cash they're raking in on this sell out...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20490761 Fri, 16 May 2008 00:06:03 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20489151 anon : What a very narrow minded response. How about I point a camera from across the street into your house and record everything you do? I will use your habits in your home to send junk mail to your house.

I see you and your wife are getting along *well*. How about some junk mail for bedroom toys. I see you now have a new child. How about ads for diapers, etc.

The same thing is happening on your connection with Charter. They are watching and recording EVERYTHING you do on your connection. Get some spyware on your computer that starts downloading illegal content (kiddie porn, terrorist stuff, etc) and you think the ISP won't eventually let the government know about it?

There is NOT a real person watching either. All these companies need to do is use automated services to determine who and what you are. This WILL lead to you being profiled. This WILL eventually be used by the government to find those undesirable people. (It probably already is used by the NSA, they just can't do anything to you publically.)

Some people are VERY short sighted. Collecting any statistics about what you download from the internet should be illegal without a court order. Selling this information for profit should also be illegal.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20489151 Thu, 15 May 2008 18:44:05 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20488522 anon :
said by BF69 See Profile :

The fact you see nothing wrong with it disturbs me.
We all see what's wrong with it, most of us are smart enough to deal with it, or find a way around it. It sucks, but by no means is it the end of the freaking world. sheeshzz]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20488522 Thu, 15 May 2008 17:01:47 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486842 anon : »www.madison.com/tct/news/stories/286500]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486842 Thu, 15 May 2008 11:55:43 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486709 clickie : It is extremely easy for someone with choices to tell someone without choices to do without internet.

Why don't you draft a nice letter to Charter's management and express your anger and state that while you're stuck with them, that doesn't mean you're going to accept this nonsense. Tell them you're supporting privacy organizations and will be working to see this event changed? Or write to your representatives in Congress and state legislatures and copy the Charter executives.

They need to know that while you can't change providers, you can do things to force Charter to change.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486709 Thu, 15 May 2008 11:30:10 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486497 haplo2112 : I am so sick of the VOTE with YOUR WALLET crap.

Guess what some of us have NO CHOICE.

I can't go anywhere else I can ONLY get broadband access where I live from Charter. THERE IS NO COMPETITION! NONE!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486497 Thu, 15 May 2008 10:46:58 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486470 clickie : The document is extremely confusing, and it is probably a result of being written by the marketing department who was trying to apply liberal lubricant to an uncomfortable event.

The fact that Charter isn't replacing ads doesn't make this any easier nor less distasteful. I've had communications with a couple privacy organizations and all have rendered an opinion that this is illegal regardless of what their customer terms of service indicate. The issue is that these people are intercepting communications that are often covered by other privacy statutes, and since they inspect each and every packet, choosing to ignore the ones they deem too sensitive is still too late. And making your customers agree to an activity that's illegal doesn't suddenly make it legal.

I suspect that businesses like Nebuad are not going away, but rather will evolve their business into being able to throw away packets from MAC addresses held by customers who do not consent to the monitoring. Which I guess is a victory because their current cookie concept is inadequate.

One thing is certain though, if this is illegal, it will be a very long time before Charter is forced to pull the plug. Which means that they will deploy this travesty in all their markets. I really think the customers need to make a lot of noise about this. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486470 Thu, 15 May 2008 10:42:56 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486175 airhead : @clickie.... ok. That makes more sense. Poaching ADs would be insane and it was hard to imagine any viable business attempting that.

The confusion came from Charter's presentation. Instead of saying "hey customers, we want to collect your info and sell it, or you can opt-out".... they say "Hey, we found a technology to make your existing ADs better (not more ads) and more directed to you, although you can opt-out". Typical marketing... the goal being to provide a good-feeling, not really explain anything.

So ultimately, my sites with their Google ad-sense ads on them, might actually make more MORE MONEY because of all this. If the info from NebuAd is profitable, then Google will use it, and I make more. If the info from NebuAd doesn't work, then Google stops using it (and buying it) and whole thing dies on the table.

So once again, as with all things through American History, the choice is between freedom, privacy, and the constitution OR more money. This society has always chosen 'more money'... that will never change. I expect all ISPs to follow suite very soon.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486175 Thu, 15 May 2008 09:43:22 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486048 anon : There has never been a better time to utilize an Online Privacy Service like Ultimate Anonymity »www.Ultimate-Anonymity.com to mask your activities from nosey ISPs. Services like these provide a host of online privacy tools for its users including anonymous web surfing by providing a secured, encrypted tunnel between your PC and the site you visit making data interception not possible. Additionally you remain anonymous to the actual site you visit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20486048 Thu, 15 May 2008 09:17:31 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484339 clickie : You're stuck on transmit and not thinking this through here. But, in the spirit of being a nice guy, I'll answer your questions because obviously your web site takes a lot of your time.

The company that decides which ads are shown are the companies that YOU, the "webmaster", has contracted with to provide ad syndication. Nothing changes. Nothing. Zilch. Are you with me on this? Nebuad/Charter is not going to change your existing dealings with Adsense. They have no right to change that, so they don't.

Charter makes money by allowing the Nebuad people to peek inside the IP packets of its customers and see where they are going, what they're doing and for how long. Nebuad puts their equipment on Charter's network and Charter cashes those checks. That's how Charter makes money; and according to the links I so graciously posted, it's as much as $5 per month per user. A very enticing amount.

I understand your outrage here, but it's entirely misdirected and based upon false premises. The umbrage should be over the fact that some company, Nebuad, to whom you do not have a business agreement and to you owes nothing, is permitted to peek into your private online activities for the purposes of collecting information in order to target ads to you. That's the issue here.

In the past, these people have probably experimented with poaching ads. But they were caught, and modified their business practices so they didn't screw over web sites, they screw over the customers of ISPs.

Etiende?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484339 Wed, 14 May 2008 22:17:34 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484220 BF69 :
said by clickie See Profile :

Well, let's see:

Today's Wired article:

»blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/0···nse.html

Previous Article Here:

»Ask DSLReports.com: What Is NebuAD?

You know how to run Google, you can find more for yourself.

You have the wrong idea on what is going on here. Nebuad takes your web browsing history, generates a bunch of categories it thinks you'd be receptive to seeing ads about, and then uses that database coupled with your unique "ID" (ostensibly generated from the MAC address of your cable modem) and then sells that information to advertising syndication services *like* Google Adwords, *like* Valueclick. Those people pay a premium for having the targeting information. Charter isn't overwriting anyone's ad space.
All bullshit. I kow what's REALLY going on. Besides if I have awebsite and have adsense ads. dont I control that? Of course. I'm SUPPOSED to decide what ads get shown. now you;re talling me some other comany gets ot decide. Um that kind of gfoes against what Google says.

from the adsense site

"Competitive Ad Filter enables you to filter out specific competitors or specific advertisers."

Now Nebaud/Charter is going to override what I wish? What right do they have to do that? My site, I know what's best to show for my surfers. Also if it's not replacing ads how does Charter make money? If people click my adsense ads I get paid not Charter. So where does Charter fit in? Sounds VERY fishy to me.

I guess all you adsense people start seeing lost income from people that have Charter you'll finally see the light. Remember I'm on YOUR side. I beleive that YOU should control the content the surfers sees on YOUR site not Charter.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484220 Wed, 14 May 2008 22:01:15 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484162 BF69 :
said by boozwooz :

I think some people need to start their own ISP, otherwise learn to play by your ISPs rules. Don't like it? Bye. Vote with your wallet. Crying solves nothing.
And if Charter is you only choice? Boy some of youa re so willingot give up your freedoms and privacy. It's people like you that ruin freedom for those that actually love it.

Fact is just because at&t is my phone company doesn't mean they a have a right to hear my conversations and see who I call then have telemarketers call me and try to sell me things or send me junk mail. This is exactly the same thing. That fact you see nothing wrong with it disturbs me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484162 Wed, 14 May 2008 21:51:39 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483974 anon : I think some people need to start their own ISP, otherwise learn to play by your ISPs rules. Don't like it? Bye. Vote with your wallet. Crying solves nothing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483974 Wed, 14 May 2008 21:21:07 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483947 clickie : Well, let's see:

Today's Wired article:

»blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/0···nse.html

Previous Article Here:

»Ask DSLReports.com: What Is NebuAD?

You know how to run Google, you can find more for yourself.

You have the wrong idea on what is going on here. Nebuad takes your web browsing history, generates a bunch of categories it thinks you'd be receptive to seeing ads about, and then uses that database coupled with your unique "ID" (ostensibly generated from the MAC address of your cable modem) and then sells that information to advertising syndication services *like* Google Adwords, *like* Valueclick. Those people pay a premium for having the targeting information. Charter isn't overwriting anyone's ad space.

Now, these clowns at Nebuad might have tried that game in the past; I'm not faulting you for having your panties in a bunch because somewhere, these people were alleged to have poached ad space in some context (see the DSLreports link above). But making a very generous open-minded assumption that what the Nebuad CEO says in the above interviews as being true, then no, they won't be replacing ads.

I'll say it again; I still don't like these people generating what amounts to a persistent cookie that I can't control, can't delete and can't see. I've already made ample complaints to my representatives, the FTC and the FCC (email and postal mail). I think these jokers can be trusted not to poach ad space, but I think that's about as far as they can be trusted only because poaching ad space is so easy to detect and so easy to get sued over. They can not however, be trusted with my browsing habits. At some point, they or some other company operating in a similar manner will make broad privacy infringements.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483947 Wed, 14 May 2008 21:15:29 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483640 BF69 :
said by clickie See Profile :

Now, as far as Charter stealing ad space from web sites, that's bunk. It's untrue. There have been numerous reports since this story broke that state Charter is using Nebuad and Nebuad is using data collection to be used for ad syndicators. Read it on Wired, read the past articles on DSLReports about Nebuad. They don't replace ads, they ostensibly make the ads more targeted.
Please. Prove they aren't taking away ads. Are you teling me that if I have a site and I use adsense that Charter isn't rpalcing ads? They are either replacing ads or adding more ads and thus reducing my revenue. Does Google use Nebuad? I don't think so. so please.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483640 Wed, 14 May 2008 20:23:53 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483404 clickie : It really needs to be brought to the attention of the FCC and Congress that this is an outrage.

The problem is that I think all ISPs are doing it to some degree. And if the ISPs want to use lower prices as an incentive, then fine, I'll opt out. I'll replace the $5 they reportedly get per month out of my pocket and those that want to save it, can be tracked.

But to unilaterally track all customers is heavy handed, and there needs to be laws against it.

When Charter adds it to Michigan, they're done here. They'll lose all my business.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483404 Wed, 14 May 2008 19:35:33 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483125 noesis : I concur,
NebuAd likely is providing some big advertisers such as ValueClick with some form of the information they gather on our internet activity so the existing ad space is more tailored to our perceived interests.

The idea that other firms ads would actually be replaced is very naive due to the legal implications.

The information being gathered is so valuable to advertisers that ISPs are being paid to install this equipment on their network so their users internet activity can be data-mined.

This is indeed a very serious invasion of privacy as these firms CAN NOT be trusted with the information they are being provided;
so we must make it clear that this kind of behavior by our ISPs will NOT be tolerated.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483125 Wed, 14 May 2008 18:41:32 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20482556 anon : Will someone buy Charter Communications, please ?

Run them out of your town if possible.
Choose a different provider if possible.

They are desperate now with "user profiling" and "advertisement injections".

It is only a matter of time.

Hopefully they will go bankrupt soon and perhaps someone can pick them up for pennies on the dollar.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20482556 Wed, 14 May 2008 16:51:34 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20482528 anon : How does one go about removing (opt-out) from other devices such as Xbox, Playstation, AppleTV, TiVo, etc.? They don't accept cookies in the traditional way. Opt-out should be done at the device level, such as their cable-modem not individual computer accounts ! (they have the MAC addresses of the cable modems in their database and all traffic goes through it - they could place opt-out users on a different IP range).

I know I don't get ads with the above devices, but would not like profiling information to be used. Then you get junk email and/or postal mail from other parties based on the information they supply to others.

I see it coming, network traffic issues when that system fails to inject an ad, the web page stalls (some ads do that).

Opt-out systems always fail. Information gets leaked eventually, perhaps in the future someone discovers a copy of database of logs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20482528 Wed, 14 May 2008 16:44:37 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20482223 clickie : Your argument that there is a worsening attitude is invalid. For decades people have used commercial breaks on television as an opportunity to grab a snack or take a bathroom break. They were, effectively, blocking the advertisement.

Since this has been happening for decades, there can not be a worsening attitude.

I understand your point, believe me, I *really* understand your point because I work in an business with a revenue stream that is 100% advertising supported.

Advertising supported content is a quid pro quo concept; the viewer gets free content/entertainment in exchange for slices of their time for advertisers. Unfortunately, when advertisers try to tip the equation more into their favor, by running more advertisements (commercials per hour), more obtrusive advertisements (loud commercials, pop-overs, pop-unders, flash ads, ads with annoying blinking colors), the viewer rebels. It's happened on broadcast TV with VCRs and Tivo, and it's happened on the web with pop-up and adblockers.

The solution is *not* becoming more onerous in the marketing equation by taking even more ad time and space and making more offensive and intrusive.

Now, as far as Charter stealing ad space from web sites, that's bunk. It's untrue. There have been numerous reports since this story broke that state Charter is using Nebuad and Nebuad is using data collection to be used for ad syndicators. Read it on Wired, read the past articles on DSLReports about Nebuad. They don't replace ads, they ostensibly make the ads more targeted.

With that said, I still don't want to be tracked via DPI. It's none of these people's business just like it's none of Doubleclick's business what sites I visit. What Charter and Nebuad is doing is going around my own privacy practices and essentially assigning me a cookie that I can never, ever delete because it's not on my computer. And if I want to opt out of this nonsense, I still get tracked, I just have to keep their cookie handy to not have that data used to serve me ads. Which helps people like Doubleclick, who wishes we never delete cookies; ee Nebuad's CEO lamenting about cookie deletion on a previous DSLreports article.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20482223 Wed, 14 May 2008 15:53:22 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20482067 haplo2112 : I think we have gotten a little off course in the discussion. Ads I personally don't care about I like most others that care have the tech to deal with those and make them go away. Its the tracking I take issue with and their opt-out isn't really an OPT-OUT. From everything that is indicated, and pretty much from a common sense view of how they intend to do the opt-out, it seems that yes you can opt-out, but your only opting-out of the ads...NOT the tracking, your privacy is still being violated.

I want to OPT-OUT of the whole damned thing. DO NOT analyze my traffic, do not keep track of where I have been and what I do on the web. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20482067 Wed, 14 May 2008 15:28:41 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481733 airhead : (down with obtrusive ads, agreed).

I went back and read the original Charter posting. Notice they never actually say they are going to replace ads with their own. They have a q-a like:
Q: Will I see more ads now than I used to see?
A: no.
Now to a reasoning person, that would imply replacement. But sales people many times think differently. It's feel-good vs feel-bad, not true/false that matters.

Notice that the following question does not appear:
Q: Will you be replacing paid advertising from the site being viewed with ads of your own?
A: ?
If they said yes, all hell would break loose (from the site provider side). If they said no, they would get flooded with questions from the reasoning portion of the population about how their statements make no sense.

So like many early in this thread were indicating, maybe they are actually going to do something different than what would reasonably be deduced from reading their statements? lol]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481733 Wed, 14 May 2008 14:28:41 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481615 haplo2112 : In fact in general I have no problem with ads of any kind that are built to the page, by the page owner. I have developed such pages myself. I use many web sites that have such ads everyday (slashdot, arstechnica, and many others) and in fact have even bought stuff from sites linked from those ads (newegg, thinkgeek). They are there they don't get in my face, they were put there because they have an ad relationship with the site owners, no problem.

As an aside I remember before slashdot went all corporate and it didn't have ads, but hell I got used to them.

I have a problem with the in your face bring up extra windows, get in the way of the site content, and affect functionality type of ads. I have issues with anything that tracks what I am doing. In fact, I find google's index and track the world mind set somewhat disturbing, but to use their other services I put up with it so far...at this time form some strange reason I am willing to trust them.

I am NOT willing to trust Charter. Give me bits and leave me the hell along after that, that is the extent of our relationship. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481615 Wed, 14 May 2008 14:07:46 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481562 airhead : @haplo2112, then we are the same. I hate that obtrusive stuff, use adblocker for them myself, and never use them on my sites. But if the entire world blocked all ads (obtrusive and unobtrusive) all the time, then the 'free' content would of course disappear. There's a balance somewhere.

Allowing companies in between the producer and consumer to spy and tack on additional ads, perhaps even replacing existing ads... that's just mind-blowing crazy sounding to me. And something the 'community' can do something about imo.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481562 Wed, 14 May 2008 13:55:11 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481536 haplo2112 : Uh, actually I have no problem what so ever with google ads.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481536 Wed, 14 May 2008 13:50:20 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481472 airhead : Regarding BF69 vs haplo2112....
C'mon guys... what's up with the ridiculous statements?

No BF69, it is not wrong for individuals to block ads/commercials, and any plea to have the whole world accept ads to keep the system running is so not going to happen, why even suggest that? There is VARIANCE in the user-base. For every person that blocks ads, there are 10+ that don't.

And haplo2112... i get revenue from ads on websites. Unobtrusive of course, (i hate those as well). Just simple little google ads here and there. And as long as there are potential competitors like you who think it's a bad way to make money, the longer I will continue to make money doing it. thanks.

But this is broad-based theft going on here. It's UPS opening up our packages, seeing what we are buying, recording that to send us unsolicited ads for more, as well as flat out removing any existing ads in the box, to replace with their own. All after you have already paid them to have the package delivered. crazy!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481472 Wed, 14 May 2008 13:37:06 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481420 haplo2112 : Often you have no choice, and what about that first visit, when you don't know what crap they are going to toss up!
What about when I am at work and I follow a link from google that promises to have the solution to a technical problem we are having. However that site is run, but some idiot that thinks sponsoring his site with NSFW content is the way to go...nope ad blocking is definitely required.

If one's revenue stream is ads on a web site they need to get a better revenue stream anyway.

ed: One of my thoughts wandered off there, corrected...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481420 Wed, 14 May 2008 13:28:55 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481298 airhead : When considering the ad-block topic, there is a variance in the user-base, which is why it's not completely destroying ad-based websites. Sure, if 100% of all users blocked ads, a lot of content would disappear. Just like tv. If EVERYONE had a dvr, watched shows 15 minutes plus after the download, and clicked that forward-30-second button over the commercials, the entire tv network system would collapse (or find another way to survive).

That's not what is going on here (if we are reading it correctly). This is just plain THEFT. Comcast, by simply being a part of the pipeline, is STEALING ad-space, apparently replacing ads in the content. And if not replacing, adding to all existing content, thus diluting the original content.

Imagine UPS selling advertising to companies, then taking their stickers and putting them on the boxes they deliver to you. That's what this is like... crazy.

EDIT: I thought about this more... let me rephrase. UPS selling ads, then putting the stickers on the box they deliver, would be like Comcast sticking a section on every page that displays Comcast ADs to their users. This latest act by Comcast is worse than that, if they are REPLACING ads on sites. That's akin to UPS opening up every box, taking out any additional ads contained in the delivered product, and replacing that with their own. It's out-right STEALING... no other way to describe it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481298 Wed, 14 May 2008 13:10:08 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481219 BF69 :
said by haplo2112 See Profile :

I'm not opposed to ads embedded unobtrusively into websites, what I am talking about is the pop-up ads, the pop-under ads, the ones that you get redirected to while yo are on the site or before you can even enter, that crap.
Unfortunately adblock blocks the "unobtrusive" ads. And frankly if you don't like the ads on a site because they are obtrusiive then don't go to that site anymore. Sure I run into a lot of sites that I think have ads that bother the hell out of me. I don't go using adblock and still visit that site. I stop visiting that site.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481219 Wed, 14 May 2008 12:56:01 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481204 BF69 :
said by clickie See Profile :

There will always be people who block ads. Those who are savvy will figure out ways to do it, whether it is web sites or television channels.

The number of people who do block ads is an important metric because it indicates the obtrusiveness of the ads being displayed. As ads become annoying (and let's face it, marketers know no bounds in this category), more people will install ad blockers. As the number of ads increases, more people will resort to ad blocking.
No it's an indication of a worsening welfare attitude where everything is supposed to be giving for free with ZERO expectations. I'm not sure if there's a way for websites to detect if someone is using adblock but if there was I would use it if I was relying my income on advertising. That person is just wasting my bandwidth. Why should I allow him on my site? Charter replacing ads that would make me money with their own is just as bad. Both would be stealing food off my table.

Most websites are not run by big corporations. People have a cow if GM or some other big corporation lays off 10,000 workers. If everyone blocked ads the number of people that would lose income would dwarf that number.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481204 Wed, 14 May 2008 12:52:49 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481124 haplo2112 : I'm not opposed to ads embedded unobtrusively into websites, what I am talking about is the pop-up ads, the pop-under ads, the ones that you get redirected to while yo are on the site or before you can even enter, that crap.

Everyone deserves to make money, my ISP makes it from the cash I pay for my connection, except for on their own portal page they should not be in the ad business.

The part about the kids is an extreme, but relevant example. In my case our only child isn't old enough yet to even do much more than stare at the monitor. Eventually she will have her own computer and not even be allowed into the room in the basement where my computer and network equipment is kept for quite sometime.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481124 Wed, 14 May 2008 12:38:23 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481120 anon : ad-blocking is done at the individual level, i.e. each person does it. It's akin to people hitting that pause on the tv, then skipping over the commercial. Before the DVR pause, someone could have just recorded tv on tape, then fast-forward over the commercials. There's really nothing a content-provider can do about that.

But this is a bigger deal. This is a company sitting between the provider and consumers, replacing ads (if that is actually what is happening... perhaps everyone is reading a marketing statement as a legal statement... no offense, but salesmen generally aren't as high on the logical-reasoning meter as lawyers and engineers...)

If allowed, then all ISPs will eventually follow suit. Why wouldn't they? It's like free easy money just sitting there on the table. And the end effect? ... will have to think more... but at first, I would guess I'm looking at another 10k/year for SSL certs to put on all my sites... ugh]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481120 Wed, 14 May 2008 12:37:02 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481091 clickie : There will always be people who block ads. Those who are savvy will figure out ways to do it, whether it is web sites or television channels.

The number of people who do block ads is an important metric because it indicates the obtrusiveness of the ads being displayed. As ads become annoying (and let's face it, marketers know no bounds in this category), more people will install ad blockers. As the number of ads increases, more people will resort to ad blocking.

As far as the other post, it is no one's business whether or not his daughter has her own account. That's not addressing the problem and that is there is a likelihood that this wonderful "targeting" technology will still be sending inappropriate ads. And while Nebuad has taken great pains to stop abuse and mis-targets, if Nebuad is successful, there will be others. And they will likely be run by misfits like Sanford Wallace or Phillip Kaplan.

This deep inspection of packets shows a total disregard for customers. The opt-out process is wholly inadequate.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481091 Wed, 14 May 2008 12:32:05 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481082 BF69 :
said by airhead :

I personally have a very large number of google ad-based websites. Wouldn't the internet look funny if every site just "cut them off" and dropped all of Charter's IP addresses in iptables? Probably wouldn't happen on the internet like it would tv... which I guess is why they think they can get away with it. Time for the FCC to step in and do something about this.
how do you feel about people like other posters here that use adblock where they visit your website and your ads can't even be seen because they are blocking them? Imagine your income if 100% of your visitors were using adblock?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481082 Wed, 14 May 2008 12:29:28 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481062 anon : @rahlquist, well said and absolutely correct...

Such action is equivalent to them intercepting network produced ad-based television signals, and replacing that million-dollar super bowl ad with their own (for example). In that case, networks would just "cut them off". In this case, it's messier, because you could consider every website as a 'network' of sorts.

I personally have a very large number of google ad-based websites. Wouldn't the internet look funny if every site just "cut them off" and dropped all of Charter's IP addresses in iptables? Probably wouldn't happen on the internet like it would tv... which I guess is why they think they can get away with it. Time for the FCC to step in and do something about this.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20481062 Wed, 14 May 2008 12:26:34 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480974 BF69 :
said by haplo2112 See Profile :

I do not want my browsing habits tracked, not now not ever in any way. I have numerous installs already that ad block,
While I'm 100% against what Charter is wanting to do. I do ot think you shouldin gerneal be blocking ads. peole put uo website for you that you use for FREE to be informed or entertained. This is NOT free to them. They have a right to be compensated for their work. They have 2 ways of doing this. Charge a subscriptions, which I'm sure you would like or want to pay for. Or place advertisements, in which you get the content for free. I think putting up with some ads is a very small price to pay. You like to be compensated for your work don't you?

if website operators can't get paid because people block ads they will either close shop or charge subsciptions. It's going to suck if all the ad-blockers lead ot much les content on the net or make the ent look like cable tv. Even at only $5 a month that's a lot of money to pay for every website you visit.

For example say that I get it in my head that I want to purchase some sort of racy, and exciting lingerie for my wife for some special day. Now you have that in the browsing habits for that computer. 20 minutes later my child needs to do some research for school. I'd like to think that they might be able to browse the net without seeing semi-porno images from my wanting to buy my wife a somewhat private and personal gift.
Your child should have thier own user account in the first place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480974 Wed, 14 May 2008 12:12:12 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480506 haplo2112 : For those of a technical mind, for your consideration perhaps this might be of help.

»tor.eff.org]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480506 Wed, 14 May 2008 10:44:52 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480499 haplo2112 : Allow me to be clear just on the off chance that anyone at Charter corporate pays any god damned attention.

I do not want my browsing habits tracked, not now not ever in any way. I have numerous installs already that ad block, and stop cookies from being set and clean up cookies specifically so that my habits are not tracked. I DON'T want the whole GOD DAMNED world especially you corporate types to know the private inner most workings of MY mind.
Then have you take those habits and turn them to ADS that is really bad.

For example say that I get it in my head that I want to purchase some sort of racy, and exciting lingerie for my wife for some special day. Now you have that in the browsing habits for that computer. 20 minutes later my child needs to do some research for school. I'd like to think that they might be able to browse the net without seeing semi-porno images from my wanting to buy my wife a somewhat private and personal gift. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20480499 Wed, 14 May 2008 10:43:15 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20479711 markopoleo :
said by raw See Profile :

said by markopoleo See Profile :

You must be new here, they don't charge that much for internet anymore.
You must live in a market where there is actual competition.

Charter only game in town, price for 16meg internet is $55 a month. Cheap for me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20479711 Wed, 14 May 2008 06:38:02 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20479444 scoosdad :
said by WhiteKenny See Profile :

i am also thinking about sending this thread over to the consumerist. maybe if we get enough people to do so then they will run a nice little story about it and get charters attention.
Too late, it's been running on The Consumerist since Monday night:

»consumerist.com/5008801/charter-···eted-ads

See the transcript there of an online chat which one poster had with Charter, for Charter's explanation to him as to how it works:

»consumerist.com/5008801/charter-···c5674488

--
Worcester MA
Charter Pipeline 5M/Verizon DSL 3M
Charter digital cable with HD
Vonage VOIP phone
ICIA CTS-D

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20479444 Wed, 14 May 2008 02:44:12 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20478666 clickie : It'll tell them apart by the HTTP headers the browser sends. Unless of course you set them all to be the same.

This pisses me off, but the truth is that I think all ISPs are doing this to some degree. The ones that Wired Magazine contacted, Verizon, Comcast and AT&T didn't respond to any questions as to whether or not they were doing the same thing. If they were not doing it or didn't have plans to do the same thing, they would have simply said "no". If Charter starts making money at this, they all will. And the truth is, according to past articles on this site, sharing clickstream data results in as much as a $5 boost per subscriber.

I think they all do it. It doesn't make it right.

My kids are the ones who need 10 megabits with their Xboxes, Playstations and downloading movies and music from iTunes and Amazon. If Charter thinks they'll display compelling and targeted ads, I wish them luck. My kid doesn't see a damned ad on his computer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20478666 Tue, 13 May 2008 22:56:32 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20478545 WhiteKenny : i just got the letter in the mail today here in CT also.

i have to agree that the opt-out process is pathetic at best, and it should definitely be opt-in! as a previous poster mentioned, i am also thinking about sending this thread over to the consumerist. maybe if we get enough people to do so then they will run a nice little story about it and get charters attention.

how will this work for people who use routers? if i visit mostly gaming sites and somebody else in the house visits mostly news sites will i get ONLY the gaming ads and they get ONLY the news ads? if this is tied to the modem MAC i don't see how it's gonna be able to tell multiple PCs apart.
--
»www.myspace.com/white_kenny]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20478545 Tue, 13 May 2008 22:36:15 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477602 anon : I will be ditching Charter for DSL, which is also cheaper, if they start doing this in my area. Charter has already been having troubles, I can't imagine ticking off customers by spying on them for targeted ads will do them much good.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477602 Tue, 13 May 2008 19:51:25 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477570 scoosdad :
said by mutetiger :

Would it be possible for anyone who received a letter from Charter to post the full text of the letter?
Here it is, complete:


Dear xxxxx,

I am writing to inform you of an enhancement coming soon to your web browsing experience via Charter's High-Speed Internet service. While continuing to deliver the same fast and reliable internet service you've always received, innovative new technology enables Charter to provide you with an enhanced online experience that is more customized to your interests and activities.

As a result, the advertising you typically see online will better reflect the interests you express through your web-surfing activity. You will not see more ads - just ads that are more relevant to you.

This service was designed to ensure that your privacy as a Charter customer will continue to be protected. Your personal information will remain confidential and your online activity will never be linked by anyone to your individual identity through this service. The service is completely anonymous and does not collect or use any information that identifies you or your family.

As your trusted communications provider, it is important to us that you continue to be in complete control of your online experience. If you would like to learn more about this exciting new service please visit www.charter.com/onlineadvertising. For information on Charter's privacy policy and how to opt out of this service, visit www.charter.com/onlineprivacy.

Charter is committed to offering the highest quality service to our customers, and we thank you for the trust you have placed in us to deliver it to you.

Sincerely yours,
Joe Stackhouse
Senior Vice President, Customer Operations

--
Worcester MA
Charter Pipeline 5M/Verizon DSL 3M
Charter digital cable with HD
Vonage VOIP phone
ICIA CTS-D

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477570 Tue, 13 May 2008 19:46:00 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477562 anon : i came to this website, www.charter.com/onlineadvertising because i recieved the "enhancement" letter in the mail. I did not expect to find this forum. I'm not very savvy in the computer department and don't quite understand what is going on with this situation. Is there anyone out there that can explain the pros and cons of this 'enhancement' to me in simple terms. charter should be the one doing this. I'm not thrilled about "big brother" monitoring everything i and my family are doing on my pc. I prefer to have as little advertising as possible anyway. if i want something I can find it myself]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477562 Tue, 13 May 2008 19:44:38 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477537 raw :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

You must be new here, they don't charge that much for internet anymore.
You must live in a market where there is actual competition.

Here in Auburn, AL, I'm paying $120 a month for 1 HD box, the digital sports tier, the HD tier (no movie channels), and 5 Meg net.

If I had another option, believe me, I'd take it. I'm in an apartment with no wiring for a phone line and no legitimate shot at the southwestern sky.

As for the topic at hand, this calls for me to start using my university VPN connection for basically every task. This is on top of calling them and bitching.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477537 Tue, 13 May 2008 19:39:08 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477124 anon :
said by zed260 See Profile :

i just called and apparently you can opt out for good for 10 dollors a month and dont have to use cookies
You can opt out for free for forever by changing your ISP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477124 Tue, 13 May 2008 18:12:50 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477067 zed260 : i just called and apparently you can opt out for good for 10 dollors a month and dont have to use cookies]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20477067 Tue, 13 May 2008 18:01:27 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20476486 DG : And I'll continue to use AdBlock Plus with Firefox to stop all these ads.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20476486 Tue, 13 May 2008 16:12:39 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20475497 markopoleo :
said by clickie See Profile :

So you'd have no problem with your phone company listening into your telephone conversation to your spouse/friend complaining that you've been suffering a bout of constipation, and sending you marketing material for a laxative?

Right now, the Nebuads people say they exclude health issues. That is subject of course, to change at whenever they like.

The big deal for me is that it always starts small. "We're not going to correlate this information to your personal identity" is what they say now, but when? If you think they'll never do that, you're being naive.
No problem at all with it. They do it for Direct Mailing with snail mail already, they have for long as I can remember. Off the top of my head I can think of 4 places that do it already.

Heck even programs do it now, even MS messenger has it, it will put ads in bottom based on browsing habits. The internet is just playing catchup to what everything else in the world does.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20475497 Tue, 13 May 2008 13:08:44 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20475008 skj : Front page article regarding Charter's invasion of a user's privacy: »/shownews/Char···ry-94356
--


The foundations of character are built not by lecture, but by bricks of good example, laid day by day.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20475008 Tue, 13 May 2008 11:41:21 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474828 clickie : So you'd have no problem with your phone company listening into your telephone conversation to your spouse/friend complaining that you've been suffering a bout of constipation, and sending you marketing material for a laxative?

Right now, the Nebuads people say they exclude health issues. That is subject of course, to change at whenever they like.

The big deal for me is that it always starts small. "We're not going to correlate this information to your personal identity" is what they say now, but when? If you think they'll never do that, you're being naive.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474828 Tue, 13 May 2008 11:05:53 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474704 BF69 :
said by Davebo See Profile :

said by markopoleo See Profile :

Not sure what the big deal, don't most people just use ad blockers anyways now?
Wow.

Ignorance is bliss, eh? You must be a happy mofo, then.
Hey as long as he doesn't see the ad the fact that charter is keeping tabs on him and basically letting 3rd party have his surfing info who cares?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474704 Tue, 13 May 2008 10:42:28 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474566 Davebo :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

Not sure what the big deal, don't most people just use ad blockers anyways now?
Wow.

Ignorance is bliss, eh? You must be a happy mofo, then. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474566 Tue, 13 May 2008 10:12:19 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474451 anon : Would it be possible for anyone who received a letter from Charter to post the full text of the letter? Maybe it could be scanned in an OCRed? Thanks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474451 Tue, 13 May 2008 09:44:48 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474240 rahlquist : Ok let me get this right.

ISP with 6 million customers is starting a program where they will replace existing banner ads (for example) with ads that they get paid for that based on the content your viewing would be relevant.

So say I am searching for a job on zippyjobsite.net (made up) and they have a banner ad for a temp agency like Kelly Services. Charter seeing where you're at can, under this program, replace that Kelly Services ad that Kelly Services paid to have placed on that page with say a MrMegaJobsite.net ad that Charter was paid for?

If thats what happening here holy monopolistic hijacking batman! It wont take long for them to be sued for this. They are acting as a content provider, opting out of their section 230 protection in the CDA (by editorializing any content they become liable for all content).

What it amounts to in my book though is theft plain and simple. In any other space if you simply took over someone's ad space, billboard, commercial etc its theft plain and simple. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474240 Tue, 13 May 2008 08:46:48 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474158 markopoleo :
said by clickie See Profile :

The point isn't the ads, the point is that Charter is peeking into every packet sent to and from your computer and allowing a third party to track what you do via (ostensibly) the MAC address of your cable modem.

People install cookie blockers because they don't want marketers and advertisers creating a profile, regardless of how "anonymous", of where they go on the internet. And I find it highly offensive that they peek into communications I have with the likes of Google to determine my interests. I have to believe that this intrusion is illegal under the ECPA of 1986.

Even if you install ad blockers, they will still create a profile of your habits. And I'm certain they'll sell it to the highest bidder.
/shrug Not that big of a deal. No different than the millions of other things that collect data from you. You might as well stop using a visa/mastercard, shopping from stores, paying taxes, etc. Welcome to the future. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474158 Tue, 13 May 2008 08:17:37 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474152 markopoleo :
said by hlpM3 :

charter is so far in debt besides charging more for internet service they are now making money by selling its users browsing activity's....

When they start loosing customers over privacy concerns I wonder how long it will be before they realize this isn't the way to make a buck.
You must be new here, they don't charge that much for internet anymore.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20474152 Tue, 13 May 2008 08:14:53 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473212 clickie :
Do you or anyone here happen to know the deployment schedule?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473212 Mon, 12 May 2008 23:36:36 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473202 clickie : That's sweet. And what wonderful anti-deep packet inspection tools does noscripts and adremoval have?

None. And that's the problem, because as I've stated above, the ads are only the symptom of the real problem. These people are looking at each and every packet to and from your computer.

Reading email on Yahoo mail --- they're reading over your shoulder.

Doing a search for something on Google -- they are looking at your queries.

Reading funny things on The Onion -- yep, they know that too. And how long you spent reading.

That's the problem. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473202 Mon, 12 May 2008 23:35:27 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473183 anon : charter is so far in debt besides charging more for internet service they are now making money by selling its users browsing activity's....

When they start loosing customers over privacy concerns I wonder how long it will be before they realize this isn't the way to make a buck. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473183 Mon, 12 May 2008 23:31:37 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473091 robertfl : BLOCK the ads by using firefox with noscripts and adremoval..

if your looking for something more powerful, try admuncher »www.admuncher.com (not free)

-Rob
--
»www.cband.info - unique radio you won't find elsewhere. join the chat and join our growing family.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473091 Mon, 12 May 2008 23:13:18 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473073 clickie : I agree, and it seems to be a solution in part with the comments in an interview from the CEO of Nebuad who said that 40% of people clearing their cookies at least once a month is making life difficult for online marketers.

Well, that's just too bad.

I just converted over from Verizon DSL because in the evenings, I'm lucky to see 768k. But this outrage hasn't hit my neck of the woods just yet, so I figure I'll wait to see how far I get on my promo rate and when it hits, I'll think about jumping back to Verizon.

Well, until Verizon implements this kind of nonsense.

I've fired off a couple emails to the EFF about this. This is an obscene infringement into the privacy of customers by peeking into search and form submissions.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473073 Mon, 12 May 2008 23:08:25 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473024 clickie : The point isn't the ads, the point is that Charter is peeking into every packet sent to and from your computer and allowing a third party to track what you do via (ostensibly) the MAC address of your cable modem.

People install cookie blockers because they don't want marketers and advertisers creating a profile, regardless of how "anonymous", of where they go on the internet. And I find it highly offensive that they peek into communications I have with the likes of Google to determine my interests. I have to believe that this intrusion is illegal under the ECPA of 1986.

Even if you install ad blockers, they will still create a profile of your habits. And I'm certain they'll sell it to the highest bidder.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20473024 Mon, 12 May 2008 23:01:11 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20472906 anon : I just opted out, and was pretty shocked when it told me that I had to opt out AGAIN every time I clear my cookies. That's hard core.

Yes, people use ad blockers. That's not the point. The point is that our ISP is collecting data from our computer use.

Everything we do is being logged by the company, or at least much of it.

The telephone companies are REQUIRED to spy on us now when asked to do so (thanks Supreme Court) and now our computers are open for anyone to see as well.

I want a better opt-out, or an opt-in. I'm seriously considering switching companies over this. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20472906 Mon, 12 May 2008 22:37:00 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20472857 markopoleo : Not sure what the big deal, don't most people just use ad blockers anyways now?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20472857 Mon, 12 May 2008 22:28:29 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20471669 Sikmaz : Very good email Garnet, the only change would be to stress that the opt-out should be permanent or for 12 months or more regardless of cookie status. If the system can't integrate with their provisioning system then they should use it at all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20471669 Mon, 12 May 2008 18:47:26 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20471022 garnetbobcat : For what it's worth, I just sent the following to Joe Stackhouse, Neil Smit and the Consumerist:

Dear Mr. Stackhouse,

I am a high speed internet subscriber in the Fort Worth, TX area. For the last year or so I have had Charter’s 10 Megabit service and I am a satisfied customer. I am writing, however, because I am concerned by your recent letter discussing the “enhancement” that will be coming soon to my Charter web browsing experience (targeted, in-line advertisement manipulation). I appreciate Charter’s respect for my privacy, but the method that Charter has provided to opt-out of this tracking scheme is insecure and woefully inadequate.

The method that you provide to opt-out is as follows. First, a customer must visit www.charter.com/onlineprivacy. Once at the site, the customer must enter his or her complete name and address. Upon submission of this personal information, the customer must accept a cookie from Charter that indicates his or her opt-out status. While this process sounds simple on face, further consideration reveals that this opt-out method is fraught with privacy concerns and places the burden on your paying customer, rather than Charter.

The most pressing privacy issue with this opt-out method is that the opt-out form presented at the aforementioned URL is not encrypted. As I’m sure you realize, this means that a user submitting his or her address to Charter is doing so in the clear, leaving this personal information open to eavesdropping. It is not difficult to create an SSL-encrypted web form. It is troubling that Charter has not done so in this case.

The fact that this opt-out system relies on a cookie to keep users opted out is also a privacy issue. By telling customers who visit the opt-out page that, “if you delete your cookies or cache files… you will have to opt-out again,” you are encouraging users to keep those files that good privacy practices dictate should be frequently purged. Ironically, the best reason to purge one’s cookies often is to prevent internet marketers from tracking one’s behavior online.

In addition to the critical privacy concerns, the steps required to avoid being tracked by this new advertising system place the burden on your customers, rather than on Charter where it belongs. A customer should be able to opt-out of this advertising tracking system in a manner that will rarely, if ever, require the customer to opt-out again. Instead, because the system uses cookies, a customer must insecurely opt-out of being tracked on each PC in his or her home. Further compounding the work that the customer has to do, if the he or she deletes cookies in accordance with safe browsing techniques, it will be necessary to insecurely opt-out on each and every PC again.

I suggest that rather than force your customers through unending iterations of opting out of this advertising system, you should allow customers like me to opt-out at the cable modem level via a secure, encrypted form on your website. I’m glad to hear that Charter has an appreciation for my privacy, but please change your opt-out process to demonstrate that you also have an appreciation for my time and security online.
--
Matt, CCIE Security, »www.wr-mem.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20471022 Mon, 12 May 2008 16:51:12 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20470529 Skippy25 : Yeah, I am not sure what justification they have for wanting personal information to opt out. That cries foul.

But then again, I am not sure why they do or did many things to begin with.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20470529 Mon, 12 May 2008 15:28:47 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20470218 BF69 :
said by clickie See Profile :

You're not considering that the web site owner has entered into an agreement with Nebuad. Look on the site, why do you think there's a link for web site content creators? These people are another ad syndication service that web masters use to generate revenue. Switching from Google Adsense to these jokers will result in -- no additional ads. The web site owner simply sells the space to Nebuad resulting in -- no additional ads.
No read what Charter is doing. They are putting ads on sites that HAVE NOT signed up for this service.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20470218 Mon, 12 May 2008 14:30:47 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20470210 BF69 :
said by Skippy25 See Profile :

I do not have the service and don't know if this would work. Nor do I agree with this in anyway as I see it as an invasion of privacy and a violation to owners of websites. However, couldn't you simply set the rights on the opt-out cookie so that it can't be deleted?

I am not sure how this would effect IE or Windows when you try to clear all your other cookies, but it is certainly something to try.
Yeah but charter just doesn't let you click a button to opt out. they want your name, address, telephone number etc. befoer you can opt out. WTF do they need that for?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20470210 Mon, 12 May 2008 14:29:12 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20470041 Skippy25 : I do not have the service and don't know if this would work. Nor do I agree with this in anyway as I see it as an invasion of privacy and a violation to owners of websites. However, couldn't you simply set the rights on the opt-out cookie so that it can't be deleted?

I am not sure how this would effect IE or Windows when you try to clear all your other cookies, but it is certainly something to try.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20470041 Mon, 12 May 2008 13:50:51 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469633 clickie : You're not considering that the web site owner has entered into an agreement with Nebuad. Look on the site, why do you think there's a link for web site content creators? These people are another ad syndication service that web masters use to generate revenue. Switching from Google Adsense to these jokers will result in -- no additional ads. The web site owner simply sells the space to Nebuad resulting in -- no additional ads.

This doesn't make it any better though because it's offensive to me that Charter thinks they have a right to peek into my communications, give the information to a third-party and profit. I have to believe this is a violation of the ECPA.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469633 Mon, 12 May 2008 12:26:51 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469472 BF69 :
said by clickie See Profile :

From my reading of the Phorm and Nebuad sites, it seems to me that these do not replace existing ads, they are another ad syndication service.
Plerase read carefully

"Will I see more ads now than I used to see?

No, you will not see any more ads now than you would otherwise see."

No you can not have their ads and not have more ads without replacing existing ads. It is impossible.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469472 Mon, 12 May 2008 11:49:44 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469247 clickie : I hope you're right, because the more backlash, the better.

From my reading of the Phorm and Nebuad sites, it seems to me that these do not replace existing ads, they are another ad syndication service.

However, if Charter isn't using these people and comes up with the own solution or different provider, then all bets are off. As I said, I hope the approach this with as much stupidity as possible so it's easy for them to get sued.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469247 Mon, 12 May 2008 11:04:51 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469136 Sikmaz :
said by ant2305 :

This is just charters DNS hijack they started a year ago in some areas, if you use some other DNS server you won't be effected.
No, this is more than that. It is deep packet inspection to inject/replace ads on some websites with ads charter serves that it injects based on your browsing habits. This is pretty messed up imo...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469136 Mon, 12 May 2008 10:44:46 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469057 anon : This is just charters DNS hijack they started a year ago in some areas, if you use some other DNS server you won't be effected. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20469057 Mon, 12 May 2008 10:29:07 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468953 BF69 : This stuff should be opt-IN not opt-OUT. Why do you have to submit your full name and address and crap to opt out?

Screw all that how about I just hunt down all cookies having to do with Charter and deleting them?

Also the FAQ says you won't see more ads. That can only hapen if they are taking away ads that are already meant to be on the page you are looking at. What right does Charter have to do that? Don't be shocked when site that rely on ads to make money start blovking ISPs that do this crap. I would. A visitor to my site that can't see my ads is of no use to me. He just wastes my bandwidth and costs me money.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468953 Mon, 12 May 2008 10:04:49 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468894 clickie : I disagree. As much as I am hopeful this is the case, I can't see the legal team at Charter being party to such an act that infringes so blatantly. But, we'll disagree for now and see what happens.

As far as the dumb pipe goes, this is an interesting take on their plans:

»www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/us···00-.html

Which means, if the ECPA of '86 hasn't been sufficiently wounded (I'm checking), Nebuad and Phorm can't accept the deep packet inspect data because it's illegal to have wire communications intercepted. Period.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468894 Mon, 12 May 2008 09:53:25 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468814 haplo2112 : Got the same letter in Charlton, MA.

GOD! I Hate this Damn Company!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468814 Mon, 12 May 2008 09:33:26 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468754 BF69 :
said by MrFixit1 See Profile :

"substitute their own ads for the ones that would otherwise be displayed on the page"
I can just see the lawsuits that would lead to !

As far as I know , no one has had the guts to substitute adds yet . Add yes , but not substitute .


Seeing as how the original add has paid the originating site for the placement , if Charter strips the add and replaces it with their own someone is being defrauded !
Even if the orginal ad is not getting replaced it now has more competiton. Competition that DID NOT pay for placement. Google is NOT going to be pleased about this. They would lose revenue with people clicking Charter's ads instead of adwords ads. I do not think Charter should incur Google's wrath.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468754 Mon, 12 May 2008 09:07:31 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468744 BF69 :
said by clickie See Profile :

I don't think they are going to replace ads on web pages. I think the plan of Phorm and Nebuad is to simply become another competitor to Google Adwords where the site signs up with these people as an ad revenue stream.
No you have it wrong. They plan on repalcing ads. Ads that people have PAID to be placed on sites. If I'm a site owner I don't wants my vistiotrs seein ads that I didn't ask to be on my site. If I have Adwords ads on my site I'm not getting paid if they are replaced or are in competition with ads that have no business being on my site.

This is why ISPs should ONLY be a "dumb pipe" otherwise they get stupid ideas like this in their heads. Sorry Charter I'm paying you $50 a month to provide me interent access and that's all. And that $50 is more than enough to cover that expense. I'll find my content and advertising on my own.

Boy the ISPs sure know how to screw up a good thing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468744 Mon, 12 May 2008 09:02:45 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468599 clickie : This is just wonderful as I signed up for Charter HSI after Verizon began sucking so badly.

I don't think they are going to replace ads on web pages. I think the plan of Phorm and Nebuad is to simply become another competitor to Google Adwords where the site signs up with these people as an ad revenue stream.

However, that doesn't excuse the gross misconduct of Charter doing deep packet inspection of its customers data and selling that information to a third party. Their opt-out process is ridiculous and does nothing to stop the collection of the data.

I think there needs to be a four-pronged approach to combating this kind of privacy problem.

First, there needs to be pressure put on Charter (and any ISP) to just abandon this concept. If it comes to my area, which I am sure it will, I will cancel immediately. Customers with a choice of another ISP who don't like this need to vote with their feet. Parallel to this, there needs to be a lot of letters written to the FTC and FCC about this issue. This is going to start like every other privacy erosion, they'll start small and ratchet it up over time.

The second attack needs to come with the press. Print media still holds the internet in a light as an instrument of democracy, and with the right editorial people, they can inflict a lot of public relations damage. Technology writers and maybe savy technology TV news reporters should know about this immediately.

Third, web sites that you visit who use these services need to be informed that using them will result in a privacy problem for their users. Of course, many web sites won't care, but those that do care will do the right thing and bail on using these types of services for revenue generation.

Finally, some way needs to be created that simply makes the data these people collect full of noise. I don't know if it's a screen saver that constantly runs out to Google and does random searches based upon dictionary words, but something needs to fill the databases with meaningless data. Once that happens, those who use Phorm and Nebuad will realize that this method has become nothing special and hopefully, the business will fail.

I have a serious problem with deep packet inspection of my data. There is no reason some outfit in California should be able to peek inside my searches on Google, my email on Yahoo, the IMs my kids send or any of my other data. And they say now that they'll respect your privacy in certain ways, but when it suits them, I'm sure Charter will cough up your name and address at the drop of a hat.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468599 Mon, 12 May 2008 08:10:04 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468316 scoosdad : And the thing that irritated me the most about the letter is how they tried to make this sound as if it was some kind of positive thing (just like the cheerful "we're raising rates again, but you're getting a better television experience!" letters):

"I'm writing to inform you of an enhancement coming soon to your web browsing experience... While continuing to deliver the same fast and reliable internet service you've always received, innovative new technology enables Charter to provide you with an enhanced online experience that is more customized to your interests and activities. As a result, the advertising that you typically see online will better reflect the interests you express thorugh your web-surfing activities. You will not see more ads - just ads that are more relevant to you."


It then continues by reassuring the customer that personal info will remain confidential and that online activity will never be linked to your individual identity through this service. It goes on to explain the onerous opt-out process.

The letter is signed by Joe Stackhouse, Senior Vice President, Customer Operations. [this is not a phishing thing, this was sent via US Mail and had my usual Charter mail-to address block and barcodes on it. Charter has my address slightly wrong and it was wrong the same way in this letter too.]

Note the phrase "You will not see more ads - just ads that are more relevant". That sounds to me as if they'll be substituting these ads for existing ones. This is wrong on so many levels. Someone else already mentioned how advertisers who paid someone else for ad placement possibly getting the heave-ho for Charter ads, unless they're only talking about their own ad placement in the first place on charter-branded websites such as charter.net, charter.com. Google does this now.

Opt-out consists of a webpage which collects your name, address, Charter account number, home phone number etc. I wondered how much of that opt-out registration info ends up in the cookie or linked to the cookie itself. Seems to me that in order to set a user-side thing like this cookie, you shouldn't need to provide that kind of information.

And guess what: according to the info in my browser's Tools-Options-Privacy-Cookies, the cookie that the opt-out webpage sets (look for connect.charter.com, cookie is named "knanpro"), that cookie expires on its own in exactly one year from when it's set. So if you don't mark your calendar for next year and go back in to opt-out again, you'll be served those ads anyway unless they have some innovative way of updating the cookie on its own.

One more reason to dump them. I'm testing Verizon DSL and liking it more and more. Once I dump the Charter internet service, I no longer have a reason to keep their cable service either. I guess they don't realize that when they give internet subscribers a reduced rate for also having Charter cable, they shoot themselves in both corporate feet when they pull stuff like this and drive people away from the internet side. Once you find an alternative internet provider, the incentive to also have cable TV from them is gone too.
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Worcester MA
Charter Pipeline 5M/Verizon DSL 3M
Charter digital cable with HD
Vonage VOIP phone
ICIA CTS-D

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20468316 Mon, 12 May 2008 03:46:10 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20467364 MrFixit1 : "substitute their own ads for the ones that would otherwise be displayed on the page"
I can just see the lawsuits that would lead to !

As far as I know , no one has had the guts to substitute adds yet . Add yes , but not substitute .


Seeing as how the original add has paid the originating site for the placement , if Charter strips the add and replaces it with their own someone is being defrauded !]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20467364 Sun, 11 May 2008 22:01:37 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20466709 mmainprize : Ya i got the same thing in my area.

And like cork, Don't like the looks of the things i have been hearing about lately.
If the ISP's start changing thses thinks it will change the way the whole internet bussness modle is setup. With the new caps and priate filter etc.. it is going to be some fighting going on.

Everbody wants the money :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20466709 Sun, 11 May 2008 19:30:41 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20464501 dkmcrae : Apparently, Charter is not providing this "enhancement" in my area - yet! After filling out the form, I got this:

"Charter Communications is not providing enhanced online advertising services in your area at this time. Should Charter launch such a program in your area, you will be notified in advance. At that time you will need to revisit this page and opt-out of the program."
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Mac]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20464501 Sun, 11 May 2008 08:08:01 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20464302 cork1958 : Hmm? Don't think I'm liking the looks or sound of this!

Possibly PHishy?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20464302 Sun, 11 May 2008 04:56:07 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20464192 Havicaz : Someone should digg this.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20464192 Sun, 11 May 2008 03:03:51 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20463613 mmainprize : That is why many are changeing to something like this.
»archetwist.com/en/opera/operator
it will allow you to not be traced while surfing but may not this type of data collection at the ISP??

Also i don't like the fact that to op out, you have to give your customer info over and over again for each PC user and for each PC, and every time you delete cookies or cashe]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20463613 Sat, 10 May 2008 23:26:16 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20462787 dslhater : OPT out at »www.charter.com/onlineprivacy must be done each time you clear you're cookies.
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dream your dreams with open eyes and make them come true...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20462787 Sat, 10 May 2008 19:34:36 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20462011 AMDUSER : You're right..
It does resemble the Embarq annoucement posted in that news article. (Posted by a user:)»Re: Here is an interview with Nebuad's CEO .]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20462011 Sat, 10 May 2008 15:38:04 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20461968 cjhorh : Actually, looks like it's NebuAD. See »Ask DSLReports.com: What Is NebuAD?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20461968 Sat, 10 May 2008 15:19:54 EDT Re: [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ad http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20461906 AMDUSER : It very closely resembles Phorm..
»ISP Based Contextual Advertising]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20461906 Sat, 10 May 2008 15:04:20 EDT [HSI] Charter to monitor surfing, insert its own targeted ads http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20461817 cjhorh : I just received a letter from Charter informing me of an "enhancement" that I find very disturbing. They are going to monitor the websites I visit and the searches I perform, and substitute their own ads for the ones that would otherwise be displayed on the page. The privacy implications of this are obvious. Although Charter claims that my personal information will remain confidential and that my online activity will never be linked to my personal identity, I find that completely disingenuous. There is no way the system can work without tying it to my IP or MAC address, which is inextricably linked to my identity.

There are also performance implications. If the system is analyzing every page download and substituting its own ad server links for the ones originally in the page, what is the performance hit? Do we really think Charter is going to invest in more network equipment to compensate for th