rv65
Let's just say I like Dublin Dr Pepper
Premium
join:2008-08-02
San Diego, CA | reply to cypherstream
Re: Comcast Analog Migration
»www.lightreading.com/document.as···site=cdn
Maybe security is possible but Comcast admits that it might now be their highest priority. |
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Greg2600
join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
| reply to BSD24
cypher, you're analysis makes too much sense for Comcast I think.  I think I'm going to swallow the contract exit fee and switch to FIOS right quick anyway. I can't wait around for another 2 years for Comcast to get this DTA out there. Especially after I read they're dropping the newsgroup support. I'll miss the MoviePlex trio and News12 NJ, but I can't take CC's lack of improvement. |
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GTFan
join:2004-12-03
| reply to cypherstream
said by cypherstream  :Who knows, maybe it will use standard PSIP data and require a full channel scan prior to it's use. It would force Comcast to fix all digital simulcast PSIP information so that they all line up on the correct channels. Time will tell what method they use. One can only hope. I've seen on another forum that the FCC actually requires them to pass through the PSIP info, but we know that's not true (and the FCC doesn't care). Don't really understand why except that maybe they don't want you to see all those nice local HD's in clear QAM without a box. Very frustrating for the average user to remember that local channel 2-1 is actually Comcast channel 104.810. |
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
1 edit | reply to BSD24
I'm leaning on believing that it will be ClearQAM only. If they encrypt the QAM it includes 2 major problems. Cost per box increases as decryption capability is added. And 2, the FCC would get their panties in a bunch because there's decryption going on within the unit (not separated on a cable card).
Reusing already existing traps make sense. They are already in place on Limited basic and data only subscribers drops. No truck roll needed!
Your moving expanded basic to digital, and expanded basic would currently be trapped if you don't subscribe. Limited basic / data only users won't see a difference. Well they wouldn't get the few channels that leak through (66-74 here).
Somehow however, the DTA needs to be addressable (only one way however). It needs to be told the channel map. No guide or anything, just a table of where to find each channel. A simple NVRAM which can store a frequency/pid map obtained from either the current Motorola OOB channel, or a new OOB/addressability controller would have to be installed, and a frequency found for it. In theory they could send a signal to "Shut off" the DTA in non-bill pay/theft situations, but the capabilities all will come down to how much it costs to implement it.
Who knows, maybe it will use standard PSIP data and require a full channel scan prior to it's use. It would force Comcast to fix all digital simulcast PSIP information so that they all line up on the correct channels. Time will tell what method they use. |
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rv65
Let's just say I like Dublin Dr Pepper
Premium
join:2008-08-02
San Diego, CA
| reply to Greg2600
But if the DTA has no encryption then people with ClearQAM enabled sets can view them no problem. It has it's benefits as well. I think they will lease the DTA's for some ridiculously for much less than a regular box. Comcast may give one for free. Like I said there are a bunch of ClearQAM enabled SD CRT's. Hope this helps. |
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Greg2600
join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
| reply to BSD24
Forcing customers into buying new Television sets is the worst approach of all. They need to provide a cheap or possibly free method of offering the customer the same Analog channels, on their current TV sets. The method is unencrypted DTA's. It makes the most sense. They could probably get away with charging for the DTA's two or three bucks a month by providing access to all the non-premium SD channels below 200. Someone in another thread complained that they have 7 TV's on Analog, but honestly that is the exception by far. We have 3 on Digital, 3 on Analog, and that is a lot of TV's for a 1 family house. Comcast really should be doing this already. Their lax is foolish. |
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rv65
Let's just say I like Dublin Dr Pepper
Premium
join:2008-08-02
San Diego, CA
| reply to GTFan
GTFan,
They have cheap SD CRT's made in Asia that have ClearQAM tuners. Though many new HD sets have them. They can also engineer the traps to work with digital instead of analog. Although most cheap LCD's are coming with them. Right now security isn't the highest priority on these things though it's possible. Probably is in the customers best interest but we all know how cableco's like comcast operate. |
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GTFan
join:2004-12-03 | reply to rv65
I certainly hope they decide to unencrypt the expanded basic QAM's so I won't have to bother with DTAs - instead I'll just go buy a couple of cheap LCD's with QAM tuners to replace my remaining extra-room analog sets. |
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Greg2600
join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
| reply to JeepMatt
Re: Proof that Analog Reclaim Works
said by JeepMatt :Living proof that analog reclaims work? FIOS TV in the Philly Metro area went from 33 to 87 HD channels in the past week. 15 more are on tap in October. All analogs were reclaimed in late June - July. Yes, 54 HD channels added in a week. That was possible because Verizon planned ahead, and purchased the DCT 700's. Those are no longer available to Comcast. Plus, FIOS has a significantly smaller customer base than Comcast. It was easier for Verizon on all fronts. Comcast got caught with their HD pants down, and now they are paying the price. Oh well. |
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rv65
Let's just say I like Dublin Dr Pepper
Premium
join:2008-08-02
San Diego, CA
| reply to cypherstream
Re: Comcast Analog Migration
Yet some company says they may be able to put security on the DTA. It would be a simple Sim or smart card with some security code. Would probably be cheap and easy to implement. Broadcom says the DTA can support encryption but the FCC says no way. Yes they could easily do that. I think the trap solution is ideal even if it requires truckrolls to fine tune them. Although it could be possible to encrypt them but I think if those channels were clearQAM then more people would be able to watch them. Though some cableco's mess up the ClearQAM and thus forcing people to rescan their channels. Some are good at clear qam like Time Warner San Diego. |
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JeepMatt
Delaware Fios
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Wilmington, DE
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to cypherstream
Proof that Analog Reclaim Works
Living proof that analog reclaims work?
FIOS TV in the Philly Metro area went from 33 to 87 HD channels in the past week. 15 more are on tap in October.
All analogs were reclaimed in late June - July.
Yes, 54 HD channels added in a week.
--
"ONE team - ONE city - ONE dream!!" |
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
4 edits | reply to rv65
Re: Comcast Analog Migration
Yeah they can't put security on it either, due to a FCC mandate that secure decryption mechanism has to be seperated from the tuner itself (ie, a Cable Card in this example). Like you said this would throw the box price sky high. They could reorganize the spectrum so that all of the "Expanded Basic" digital QAM channels are lined up under the current "Expanded Basic" traps. They would be sent in the clear for the box and QAM tuners, but trapped out if a sub only wants "Limited Basic". Same exact system as used today, except now there's digital channels on those frequencies, rather then analog channels.
For example, currently my system deploys a trap that blocks out channels 28~65 if you only subscribe to basic service. Well with the DTA they could locate the clear expanded basic digital channels on 31-34 if they desire. Then with all the extra new found bandwidth from 28,29,30,34-65, they could locate services that require at least Expanded Basic ANYWAY, like HD versions of Expanded basic, Digital Plus, or whatever other tiers they want to call them. |
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rv65
Let's just say I like Dublin Dr Pepper
Premium
join:2008-08-02
San Diego, CA
| reply to reidcc
The Terapix setup can be used on more than 1 tv just fine. I'm not a comcast user so I don't know about alternative charge. They would probably charge a monthly fee for extra DTA's. Probably less than 3 USD a month. QAM tuners are nice since you can get local channels and even radio channels since they don't encrypt them. Clear QAM can be had on SDTV's as well. I have seen cheap Asian made digital CRT's that have a Clear QAM tuner. I do know that basic digital is slightly cheaper than expanded basic but digital basic requires a box on more than 1 TV.
The DTA box still has some issues on security. Security may be 2nd but the content providers aren't going to want some unencrypted device. Not encrypting expanded basic would allow those people with clearQAM sets to be able to view them just fine. CableCard is out of the question since the cost is expensive. |
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reidcc
join:2008-09-14
Fitchburg, MA | reply to rv65
Thank You-
But doesn't Comcast also have their alternative outlet charges as well? Over and above Box rental? |
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rv65
Let's just say I like Dublin Dr Pepper
Premium
join:2008-08-02
San Diego, CA
| reply to reidcc
reidcc,
There was a product called the Terapix from Broadlogic. This chipset can be used as a residential gateway. This chipset would be able to mux the digital SD channels as analog. However comcast will go to a DTA. DTA's are like those CECB's. No security which means it uses ClearQAM. Just a super tiny box that allows people to watch TV. A lot of new TV's are using ClearQAM tuners which are unencrypted digital channels. Comcast will make a limited number of channels analog. Limited Basic is analog. I have a small Samsung with a ClearQAM tuner in an office. Comcast will give out 1 DTA then maybe rent them for 1 to 2 USD a month. Also Tru2way is coming out which uses a special card for Digital with all the features. Hope this helps. |
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reidcc
join:2008-09-14
Fitchburg, MA
| reply to BSD24
OK-
I am just finally trying to get up on this changeover and what we lose by not changing TV's and service. I live in Central Mass.
Do let me get this straight- I have 6 analog TV's in my house- I pay $53 a month for cable service- no pay channels. If do not change service- I will lose channels as Comcrap decides to take away. If I upgrade to Digital service- I will now need to rent 6 convertor boxes(which I do not want).
So I buy 3 new Digital TV's and get the kids to buy their own Digital TV's- to avoid the Box rental- only to find out I STILL Need to RENT a flippin box for each TV. Where is the justice in that? Why do I want a rental BOX?
I can't wait to compare this to Verizon FIOS strategy when they come to town in a couple of months!!! I refuse to pay additional fees for each TV. I will cancel both ComCrap AND Internet and go back to Dialup.
Chris |
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quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI | reply to OldLady779
Because then they wouldn't be able to sell you the box per month. Just like the phone companies, they are looking for any fees they can add 'below-the-line' |
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
| reply to MadMANN
Wow that's cool! I like that company. They are upgrading around here (lots of slack fiber spooled up, extra feeder running past poles not hooked up, underground area's dug up, new peds put in, etc..).
But say a cable card is $2 a month. It would still take at least 50 months to break even! |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
 ·Comcast
| reply to cypherstream
said by cypherstream :I seriously do not ever see cable cards being SOLD directly to the consumer, especially through a retail outlet like Bestbuy or Walmart. Actually, SECV sells their Moto cards for $100. They give you the option to buy or rent, although it is not advertised. |
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OldLady779
join:2008-02-04
Knoxville, IL | reply to BSD24
My question is, why can't they just take the channels that are in the analog package and when they switch them to digital send them in the clear? So people with televisions with digital/qam tuners can still pick them up without the boxes. |
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