MattE
Obama '08
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| reply to Skeedatl
Re: Bingo.
said by Skeedatl  :Yeah, because we know how efficient and successful government programs are.  Like the interstate highway system? Or the national power grid? I'd even go so far as to say the POTS system since the government stepped in a regulated the level of service. |
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA
| Ah, yes, the interstate highway system- how's about that Big Dig (Interstate 93 through downtown Boston)? And that maintainance is going so well...
And the power grid, where one failure in northern New York can mean failure in the entire Northeast- a sparkling success there. |
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kapil
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| said by EPS :Ah, yes, the interstate highway system- how's about that Big Dig (Interstate 93 through downtown Boston)? And that maintainance is going so well... And the power grid, where one failure in northern New York can mean failure in the entire Northeast- a sparkling success there. All of that because "small government" morons for the last 30 years haven't invested in infrastructure.
Foresight and good governance got us started, just like the founding fathers gave us the constitution as a framework for a democracy....it's our job to continue on that path.
So build a national highway system...and 50 years later when it needs maintenance and replacement, deny the funding and point to it as an example of how bad government programs are? I've never understood how the "no taxes" crowd sells that as a logical argument to anyone with post-secondary education.
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Skeedatl
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edit:
May 20th, @01:53PM
| reply to MattE
said by MattE :said by Skeedatl :Yeah, because we know how efficient and successful government programs are. Like the interstate highway system? Or the national power grid? I'd even go so far as to say the POTS system since the government stepped in a regulated the level of service. Yeah, the Federal highways are ashambles and clogged shut with traffic despite taxpayers paying COUNTLESS billions in road taxes and fees that just end up being stolen for bullcrap welfare programs. The power grids? At least out here they were originally built by the power companies and are now managed by CalISO and other gov't mandated ISOs that give us our wonderful rolling blackouts. POTS? Paid for by the telcos and is overpriced thanks in no small part to the wonderful taxes and fees subs are forced to pay on it. |
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MattE
Obama '08
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| said by Skeedatl :said by MattE :said by Skeedatl :Yeah, because we know how efficient and successful government programs are. Like the interstate highway system? Or the national power grid? I'd even go so far as to say the POTS system since the government stepped in a regulated the level of service. Yeah, the Federal highways are ashambles and clogged shut with traffic despite taxpayers paying COUNTLESS billions in road taxes and fees that just end up being stolen for bullcrap welfare programs. The power grids? At least out here they were originally built by the power companies and are now managed by CalISO and other gov't mandated ISOs that give us our wonderful rolling blackouts. POTS? Paid for by the telcos and is overpriced thanks in no small part to the wonderful taxes and fees subs are forced to pay on it. You described California. Move.
Here in North Carolina, we have a wonderful interstate system and a great power grid with no rolling blackouts. |
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Skeedatl
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| reply to kapil
They aren't denied funding for roads. Taxpayers are paying billions and billions in road taxes, fees and excise taxes. But the same corrupt gov't raids those funds to pad their other failed programs.
And damn straight now more taxes, not until they show some responsibility with the hundreds of billions they already get. They don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem. Don't come crying about revenue when they give hundreds of billions to supercorps like ADM for crops that are already reaping them record profits or for tax breaks for oil companies also reaping record profits or for school systems where less than .50 of every dollar actually makes it to a classroom. |
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Skeedatl
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edit:
May 20th, @10:39PM
| reply to MattE
said by MattE :You described California. Move. Here in North Carolina, we have a wonderful interstate system and a great power grid with no rolling blackouts. Wait till the illegals show up by the millions like they did here and clog your roads, ruin your schools and close your hospitals.
Nothing does quite so well for a society than to import poverty by the unchecked millions. |
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kapil
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| reply to Skeedatl
There is no "they". It's US! It's our country and our government. When we decide it's time to stop being lazy and participate in government is when this will all turn around.
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Skeedatl
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May 20th, @02:01PM
| Not my government. It's Exxon's gov't. It's Mexico and China's gov't and anyone else Washington wants to sell us out to. It's gov't by the dollar and for the dollar.
And with both Obama and McCain being free-traders and pro-amnesty nothing is going to change for the American worker except fewer good jobs, worsening schools and higher taxes. |
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kapil
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| said by Skeedatl :Not my government. It's Exxon's gov't. It's gov't by the dollar and for the dollar. Not everything is someone else's fault. Grow up and take responsibility. It's precisely this I-didn't-do-it attitude that has allowed these incompetent dimwits to become in charge and sell your country off in pieces to Exxon and Halliburton.
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TK Junk Mail
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| said by kapil :said by Skeedatl :Not my government. It's Exxon's gov't. It's gov't by the dollar and for the dollar. Not everything is someone else's fault. Grow up and take responsibility. It's precisely this I-didn't-do-it attitude that has allowed these incompetent dimwits to become in charge and sell your country off in pieces to Exxon and Halliburton. And it isn't YOUR country too? So what is YOUR country?
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | reply to kapil
The Big Dig (or to use its legal name, Central Artery/Tunnel) is hardly an example of government projects not getting enough funds... $15 billion not enough for you? |
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JSRoman
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Callahan, FL
| reply to Skeedatl
said by Skeedatl :said by MattE :You described California. Move. Here in North Carolina, we have a wonderful interstate system and a great power grid with no rolling blackouts. Wait till the illegals show up by the millions like they did here and clog your roads, ruin your schools and close your hospitals. Nothing does quiet so well for a society than to import poverty by the unchecked millions. said by Skeedatl :said by MattE :You described California. Move. Here in North Carolina, we have a wonderful interstate system and a great power grid with no rolling blackouts. Wait till the illegals show up by the millions like they did here and clog your roads, ruin your schools and close your hospitals. Nothing does quiet so well for a society than to import poverty by the unchecked millions. So there was no traffic, school weren't overcrowded and hospitals were in top shape in Cali until the illegals showed up? Maybe you exagerating just a tad?
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Skeedatl
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Short of armed revolution, there is NOTHING to be done.
Whether it's Democrats or Republicans, both are equally corrupt and inept. |
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pnh102
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| reply to TK Junk Mail
said by TK Junk Mail :And it isn't YOUR country too? So what is YOUR country? Relax TK... inevitably there may come a time when the above poster is proud of his country for the very first time. 
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Skeedatl
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May 20th, @02:31PM
| reply to JSRoman
No exageration. California used to have best (or near the very best) public schools, the best hospitals and absolutely THE best highway system in the nation. Not any more. Hospitals are being crushed by illegals getting services that they can't pay for (and the gov't doesn't reimburse enough for), the schools can't handle the influx of non-English speakers who are already behind in education, and the increase in non-legal population (since the legal population has actually decreased) has taxed all aspects of infrastructure, whether it's electricity, water, highways, hospitals, prisons, or anything else).
I know it's hard for people living outside of Southern California to visualize or believe the problem could be this bad, but you just have to have lived here for the last 40 years to see how it has changed for the worse.
The statistics about there being 75,000 less K-12 students but spending $11 billion more and that LA county saw a $300 million shortfall for hospitals (resulting in closures of hospitals and 4 hours waits for the ERs) can get taxing, but that is the direct result of unchecked illegal immigration.
Plus illegal immigration drives down wages for legal immigrants and other lower skilled jobs. For example it used to be in California that being a carpender or in other construction trades meant great pay and benefits but not any more.
It's a mess and getting worse and despite record gov't revenues, we face another $14 billion deficit this year. |
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DaveNJ
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said by kapil :said by EPS :Ah, yes, the interstate highway system- how's about that Big Dig (Interstate 93 through downtown Boston)? And that maintainance is going so well... And the power grid, where one failure in northern New York can mean failure in the entire Northeast- a sparkling success there. All of that because "small government" morons for the last 30 years haven't invested in infrastructure. I've never understood how the "no taxes" crowd sells that as a logical argument to anyone with post-secondary education. What does the size of the government have to with maintance. There aren't even related. Plus most of the grid is private, purposefully so it will be invested in.
the "no taxes" crowd understands that the more the government gets the less it spends on the people. See SS, and medicare, 2 great examples of why the government should keep it hands out things. If you like taxes ,Sweden pays about 60% of there income to the government, i am sure its paradise.
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kapil
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said by Skeedatl :Short of armed revolution, there is NOTHING to be done. Whether it's Democrats or Republicans, both are equally corrupt and inept. Yeah. Everyone is out to get you...each man for himself. Get the guns!
Maybe you shouldn't vote after all.
Yes, things are pretty bad. But things were once very good. We can make them that way again...we just have to stop being selfish and work for the common good and for the good of the country. No armed revolution required...this isn't the 1800's.
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Skeedatl
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edit:
May 20th, @02:38PM
| It's not paranoia when it is true.
The gov't, at least here in California is absolutely gunning for the taxpayers. They're looking to raid even more highway funds, raise sales taxes to 9.25% (in LA county) and borrow from future lottery revenues. This despite already being one of the highest taxed states in the nation and 47th for business climate.
But with Obama, the rest of the nation will get a taste of Sacramento style gov't.
Things were good during the 90's when Congress controlled spending. But Republicans have become spend happy whores and the Democratic Congress has turned out to be no better.
Things can be good again, all we have to do is stop being selfish expecting other people and the gov't to pay our way. |
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kapil
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May 20th, @03:18PM
| reply to DaveNJ
said by DaveNJ :See SS, and medicare, 2 great examples of why the government should keep it hands out things. Actually, those are two of the better managed and efficient government programs with much less waste than would be expected of any program that size.
The problem with both programs is that, again, the "no taxes" idiots have refused to fund the progams at levels need to sustain them and keep them viable for future generations.
All while the 30 years of conservative government has raided the trust fund to make up for its inept policies and revenue shortfall.
Can we say burning the candle at both ends? You take the money that's already there and refuse to fund it as needed...and then point at it as an example of bad governance. |
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