mv32
join:2008-05-21
 ·Cogeco Cable
| Quick question, is it possible to be "always on"?
Hey all,
I've been on cable inet way too long and the value has disappeared...anyway, my question, can a static (perm) IP DSL connection connect to any dhcp/static/ device or are there any issues to consider? Ethernet hubs, routers, anything pertinent would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
mv36 |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
 ·ELECTRONICBOX
| There are 2 types of DSL connections: GAS and HSA.
GAS uses PPPoE. This is very similar to dialup. Your router sends login information and a PPPoE session is established. During this session, you can exchange all the packets you want. Modern routers have the ability to "fake" a permanent connection by automatically trying to re-establish a PPPoE connection as soon as it detects one has been lost. In practice, this gives you near 100% connection.
HSA is a permanent virtual circuit that carries Ethernet packet from you to your ISP. There is no "session" to be established. This is architecturally "always on". But while maintenance by Bell or the ISP would cause a detectable outage with PPPoE, with HSA, your packets will simply not get through. (similar to unplugging the ethernet cable from your cable modem.) Short outages may not be noticed on HSA because no SYSLOG alarms would be generated whilst similar outage on PPPoE would be detected by the router.
HSA gives you real TCPIP with transport of 1500 byte frames.
GAS gives you a maximum MTU of 1492 bytes because PPPoE header uses 8 bytes of the 1500 ethernet payload.
In practice, the use of a good router allows you to be fully shielded from the quirks and inferiority of PPPoE and get a functionally "always on" connection. |
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mv32
join:2008-05-21 | reply to mv32
Thank you for the great reply...
Now I feel rather ignorant ...what is GAS and what is HSA? |
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mv32
join:2008-05-21 | sorry, what does it stand for, non acronym? |
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mv32
join:2008-05-21 | Final question, I think I need the HSA, does teksavvy offer that service? |
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justhad2sorry
@teksavvy.com
| reply to mv32
said by mv32  :Thank you for the great reply... Now I feel rather ignorant ...what is GAS and what is HSA? GAS is about $1.23/litre here in Ottawa.
HSA is, Well, HSA is HSA.   |
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mv32
join:2008-05-21 | hehe, gas is absurd, don't buy it no more LOL |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
1 edit | GAS = Gateway Access Service
HSA = High Speed Access
The names themselves don't really mean anything relative to how they differ.
PPP daemons actually won't kill the link quite so easily. For example, our PPPd config in Tomato/MLPPP requires the PPP link to be down for at least 70 seconds before it will terminate the link.
Effectively, all PPP-related downtime of less than 70 seconds will simply drop packets, just like HSA. You can reboot your DSL modem and the router won't even notice; it will just drop packets until the modem syncs again. It won't even have to re-establish the PPP session, since it will still be valid.
As has been said by JF, good consumer routers (like, say, the WRT54GL running Tomato/MLPPP :P) will pretty much completely mask the difference to the user.
That is, regardless of if you have HSA and set the router up to use DHCP for access, or if you have GAS and set it up to use PPPoE, the behaviour will be identical. Only differences will be the connection will die after 70 seconds of downtime, and it will take slightly longer to reconnect after more than 70 seconds of downtime.
EDIT: That said, there are other differences on the service offering level. HSA connections are treated by Bell as more important. They're not throttled (although, Tomato/MLPPP currently solves that for GAS service too). And supposedly, they're not oversubscribed to the same extent, although I think that's just marketing BS. |
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mv32
join:2008-05-21 | reply to mv32
There are totally psycho concoctions for the diesel users out there LOL, only 47 cents per litre, but really i know nothing and plz don't blow yourself up, (and educate at your own risk) :P |
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mv32
join:2008-05-21 | reply to Guspaz
Fantastic info ,my friend, what if however i used a wired ethernet hub of say 10 years plus ago, which does apply one new ip to each connect, any thought or foresite there? Once again, thanks |
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mv32
join:2008-05-21 | reply to mv32
As for throttled, that is my reasoning for leaving cable, that and old school caps, more speed, less download, and now you are the guilty party LOL |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
1 edit | reply to mv32
Why would you? Ordinary switches can be had for nothing these days; they're even built into most consumer routers.
Consider this: HSA service costs $99 per month and has a $250 setup fee (and a 200GB cap). GAS service costs $30 per month with no setup fee. At that point, buying a switch for $20 or whatever would be something of a savings, no?
Anyhow, general topology is you get a home router (WRT54GL is quite nice), plug the modem into the WAN port, plug computers into the four switch ports, and you're off.
If you don't want to use a home router, you plug the modem into one switch/hub port, plug the computers into the others, and one computer acts as the router, establishing the PPP session.
If you don't want to have any computer acting as a router, individual computers can establish separate PPPoE sessions, although they'd all have different internet IPs. There may also be some performance degradation from doing that, but I'm not sure. |
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mv32
join:2008-05-21 | reply to mv32
My scenario is i need the modem/connection, active always, regardless of a computer being present, would it work with my old Smart Link 5 port hub (10 Mbps)? |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
3 edits | reply to mv32
Consider that, ignoring hardware costs, one (first) year of GAS service costs $359.40, and one (first) year of HSA service costs $1438.00.
So, you pay an extra $1078.60 per (first) year for HSA service. At that point, any extra hardware you need for GAS (like a $70 home router/switch) are completely irrelevant; they're far cheaper after the first MONTH.
EDIT: Why do you keep saying you need to use an ancient hub? The setup fee alone for HSA service costs more than three times more than a real router/switch!
EDIT2: It should be noted that most modems today can act as very basic PPPoE routers, so just a modem and your old hub would do what you want. Modems that can act as routers can be purchased for as little as $25 refurbished. |
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mv32
join:2008-05-21 | Thanks Guspaz, makes sense, yet, i want to pay less than the cable i am with now, and ultimately cancel all dealings with ... I must know that it will be a properous endeavour  |
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mv32
join:2008-05-21 | reply to Guspaz
I see, and much appreciated, any idea where such a modem could be purchased? |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC | Caneris sells them for $25. Delivery varies between $0 (GTA) to ~$10 (elsewhere, such as Montreal).
»www.caneris.com/Order?c=W |
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mv32
join:2008-05-21 | As for filters, one is necessary for the phone line? |
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databird
join:2008-05-17
London, ON
| said by mv32 :As for filters, one is necessary for the phone line? I'm pretty sure you only use filters on phone jacks where you are actually connecting a phone. |
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mv32
join:2008-05-21 | I would be leading a line across the ceiling to make a dsl connection from an existing phone jack, not sure now how that might work |
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