NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Re: So what Yeah but you're talking about people who wont go to jail.
Bush would just pardon them if that happened. They should of held off on Scooter Libby's sentencing until Bush was out of office. | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: So what said by NOCMan  :Yeah but you're talking about people who wont go to jail. Bush would just pardon them if that happened. They should of held off on Scooter Libby's sentencing until Bush was out of office. Doesn't matter. Step 1 is always a full accounting of events. We can't get to punishment stage until the charges are read out loud in public and the traitors have an opportunity - regardless of the fact that they denied this to others - to mount a defense of their treasonous conduct.
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»www.DumbLogic.com | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
 ·Comcast
| Re: So what Who are the traitors here?
The companies that complyed with a request from their gov't during a time of national crisis, or the s***bags that want to further the mayhem by limiting our governments 1 true obligation to the constitution--- our defense!
And why oh why hasn't Klein been charged, theres the true traitor!
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"Anything worth having is worth cheating for." WC Fields | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: So what said by S_engineer :Who are the traitors here? The companies that complyed with a request from their gov't during a time of national crisis, or the s***bags that want to further the mayhem by limiting our governments 1 true obligation to the constitution--- our defense! And why oh why hasn't Klein been charged, theres the true traitor! There is no "crisis". I'd say that the constitution is a little bit more complex than just "defense". And speaking out for your beliefs, in the face of all sorts of odds, makes you a hero not a traitor.
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| Re: So what said by kapil :said by S_engineer :Who are the traitors here? The companies that complyed with a request from their gov't during a time of national crisis, or the s***bags that want to further the mayhem by limiting our governments 1 true obligation to the constitution--- our defense! And why oh why hasn't Klein been charged, theres the true traitor! There is no "crisis". I'd say that the constitution is a little bit more complex than just "defense". And speaking out for your beliefs, in the face of all sorts of odds, makes you a hero not a traitor. So by your logic...Adolph Hitler was a hero with his actions after the Treaty of Versailles? | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| Re: So what So you cite an ambulance chaser trying to establish political correctness rather than argue your own words on merit. The North side must be proud of you.... | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| Re: So what I didn't call Hitler a hero....Kapil did when he said "And speaking out for your beliefs, in the face of all sorts of odds, makes you a hero not a traitor."
I'm sure he also feels Ho Chi Mihn, Pol Pot, The Ayatollah Ruhollah Musavi Khomeini, and Fidel Castro were all heros too when the "faced the odds" | |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
| Re: So what said by S_engineer :I didn't call Hitler a hero....Kapil did when he said "And speaking out for your beliefs, in the face of all sorts of odds, makes you a hero not a traitor." I didn't call the founding fathers traitors and terrorist either... You did when you implied Kapil's statement = Hitler is a hero.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| Re: So what said by jhboricua :said by S_engineer :I didn't call Hitler a hero....Kapil did when he said "And speaking out for your beliefs, in the face of all sorts of odds, makes you a hero not a traitor." I didn't call the founding fathers traitors and terrorist either... You did when you implied Kapil's statement = Hitler is a hero. Your missing the context of the analogy. His blanket statement "And speaking out for your beliefs, in the face of all sorts of odds, makes you a hero not a traitor" has serious outcomes. By calling this clown Klein a hero after he breached national security shows where his allegiance is. The damage that Klein did was irrevocable on several different fronts, and the fact that he has not been charged treason speaks volumes about the impact that media carries on our national policies.
I took an oath to the constitution as did all of you, I'm sure. My question is, are you trying to defend it or subvert it? | |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
1 edit | Re: So what said by S_engineer :Your missing the context of the analogy. You assume I'm missing the context of the analogy. I'm merely making a point to the fallacy of your initial response to kapil.said by S_engineer :His blanket statement "And speaking out for your beliefs, in the face of all sorts of odds, makes you a hero not a traitor" has serious outcomes. No more than your blanket statement about Klein being a traitor for exposing an illegal spying program.said by S_engineer :By calling this clown Klein a hero after he breached national security shows where his allegiance is. Right, because you're either with the Administration or you're a terrorist and traitor.  said by S_engineer :The damage that Klein did was irrevocable on several different fronts, and the fact that he has not been charged treason speaks volumes about the impact that media carries on our national policies. The fact that he hasn't been charged with treason, and that the phone companies are spending billions on lobbying to get immunity speaks even louder about how right his actions were.said by S_engineer :I took an oath to the constitution as did all of you, I'm sure. My question is, are you trying to defend it or subvert it? Does turning a blind eye when the constitution gets bypassed qualifies now as defending it? My, how far we've become.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | Re: So what Sorry. Exposing an illegal wiretapping program is not breaking the law. The illegal wiretapping program is breaking the law. Your opinion on the matter, while amusing, is simply wrong. | |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
| Re: So what said by JakCrow :Sorry. Exposing an illegal wiretapping program is not breaking the law. How would a landlord or employee know whether a warrant wasn't used? Or, that the AG hadn't certified it?
By definition, Klein broke the law simply because he wasn't privy to the details.
Mark | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
1 edit | said by S_engineer :Who are the traitors here? The companies that complyed with a request from their gov't during a time of national crisis, or the s***bags that want to further the mayhem by limiting our governments 1 true obligation to the constitution--- our defense! And why oh why hasn't Klein been charged, theres the true traitor! The telcos were not presented with warrants. If there were no warrants issued within 72 hours of the request for wiretaps, the wiretaps should have ceased. The requests were illegal without warrants. The current wiretapping laws were sufficient for dealing with the "time of national crisis".
Bush admitted on camera that he authorized these warrrantless wiretaps, which is illegal, violating both the FISA law and the Constitution. It was an admission of guilt. This alone was enough to impeach him, but unfortunately, the republicans in congress were more interested in covering the ass of their team captain than doing their Constitutional duty to uphold the law and keep the administration in check, and the democrats haven't had the balls to do the same since they took control. | |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| Re: So what said by JakCrow :The telcos were not presented with warrants. If there were no warrants issued within 72 hours of the request for wiretaps, the wiretaps should have ceased. The requests were illegal without warrants. Wrong. See »Re: Ya Gotta be Kidding Me
Mark | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| Re: So what The Department of Justice conceded that the NSA program was not authorized by any of the provisions in 18 U.S.C. 2511. Using 18 U.S.C. 2511 is something like the 6th excuse for breaking the law with warrantless wiretaps. You guys need to pick one and stick with it. For once. | |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| Re: So what said by JakCrow :The Department of Justice conceded that the NSA program was not authorized by any of the provisions in 18 U.S.C. 2511. Reference please.
Mark | |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| Re: So what Contrary to your assertion, I see no mention of 2511. Do you have an explanation?
Mark | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| Re: So what Actually, you're correct. However, 18 U.S.C. § 2511(2)(a)(ii)(B) is irrelevant, and as already stated, yet another excuse that people, such as yourself, have tried to trot out while running interference for the administration. If this gave Bush and the AG the right to authorize warrantless wiretapping, then there would have been no reason for Gonzolas to make the claim that HJR114 gave Bush all the authorization needed to wiretap without a warrant. Of course, that also ignores all the other excuses used by both the admin and people, such as yourself, while scrambling to cover Bush's ass and try and justify violations of both the FISA law and the Constitution. Of course, the hypocrisy of it all is that if it weren't for the fact the president has an R next to his name, people, such as yourself, would be calling for the president's head on a pole. | |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| Re: So what said by JakCrow :If [2511] gave Bush and the AG the right to authorize warrantless wiretapping, then there would have been no reason for Gonzolas to make the claim that HJR114 gave Bush all the authorization needed to wiretap without a warrant. It's not amazing that the administration would use Joint Resolution 114 (authorizing the President to wage war on terror) as the source of their power *under existing law*. There's nothing in 2511 (or anywhere else, AFAIK) that defines when the AG can certify a warrant isn't necessary.
Mark | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| Re: So what said by amigo_boy :said by JakCrow :If [2511] gave Bush and the AG the right to authorize warrantless wiretapping, then there would have been no reason for Gonzolas to make the claim that HJR114 gave Bush all the authorization needed to wiretap without a warrant. It's not amazing that the administration would use Joint Resolution 114 (authorizing the President to wage war on terror) as the source of their power *under existing law*. There's nothing in 2511 (or anywhere else, AFAIK) that defines when the AG can certify a warrant isn't necessary. Mark But neither is a good excuse. Bush broke the law by authorizing warrantless wiretapping, and all the excuses team players like you try to continue to use don't change the fact that he broke the law and violated the Constitution. I realize people, such as yourself, think that the team is more important than the good of the country, but still, that's not a good reason. | |
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