roc5955
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join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY
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| reply to Dogfather
Re: So what
said by Dogfather  :If the telco broke the law, put those who signed off on it in jail. Otherwise STFU unless you can PROVE some individual was personally damaged by their actions. No! If a telco broke the law, the person who authorized them to break the law should go to jail. Civil penalties could be levied, whether or not someone was personally damaged, if intent could be proven.
If this goes to the top of the administration, than let's find out. I am tired of this administration literally getting away with murder.
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword." |
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Dogfather
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| There are no damages if there was no damage.
Civil penalties for what? No one was damaged.
So then it comes to whether or not there were criminal acts. If there were, instead of giving millions to bloodsucking scum lawyers, those who signed off on it should go to jail. |
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jhboricua
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join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
1 edit | reply to roc5955
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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1 edit | reply to roc5955
said by roc5955 :If a telco broke the law, the person who authorized them to break the law should go to jail. Civil penalties could be levied, whether or not someone was personally damaged, if intent could be proven. If this goes to the top of the administration, than let's find out. I am tired of this administration literally getting away with murder. That's a sensible position. If McCain's now opposed to immunity, maybe he should be asked if he supports congressional hearings to find out whether the current administration broke the law. Or, will appoint a special prosecutor if elected.
McCain's a huge fake. In the 90s a friend of mine wrote him complaining about his vote for the Omnibus Crime Bill (which banned so-called "assault weapons."). McCain replied saying he voted against inclusion of that ban in the bill. My friend's mother wrote McCain complaining about his opposition to the ban. McCain replied saying he voted for the crime bill. He's been in Washington too long.
Mark |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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| reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather :There are no damages if there was no damage. Civil penalties for what? No one was damaged. The law prohibiting telcos from handing over data provides for statutory damages. Anyone who feels their terms of service (with a participating telco) were invalidated could claim damages equal to what they paid for the service.
Not that I agree with civil suits. But, there is a basis for them.
Mark |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| reply to roc5955
said by roc5955 :said by Dogfather :If the telco broke the law, put those who signed off on it in jail. Otherwise STFU unless you can PROVE some individual was personally damaged by their actions. No! If a telco broke the law, the person who authorized them to break the law should go to jail. Civil penalties could be levied, whether or not someone was personally damaged, if intent could be proven. If this goes to the top of the administration, than let's find out. I am tired of this administration literally getting away with murder. The officers of those companies should also be punished as accessories to a crime. |
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roc5955
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join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather :There are no damages if there was no damage. Civil penalties for what? No one was damaged. So then it comes to whether or not there were criminal acts. If there were, instead of giving millions to bloodsucking scum lawyers, those who signed off on it should go to jail. So nobody should be held financially responsible for breaching your implied privacy within the confines of the teleco? No, you, as a customer, whose records were intended to be kept private, but were given to the government, under false pretenses were damaged. Unless your right to privacy is worth nothing to you. If it is, than perhaps you should move to a country where that is the norm, like China or Cuba.
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Dogfather
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Laguna Hills, CA
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| No one was damaged. There is nothing to be financially responsible for.
Civil and criminal penalties to be paid to the state for a violation of the law is a different matter than filling the pockets of a bunch of bloodsucking Sokolove ambulance chasing asswipes.
If you get bent over privacy so much, you better not deal with ANY bank, ANY telco, ANY credit reporting agency, ANY company as the vast majority sell far more important data than who you called. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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2 edits | said by Dogfather :No one was damaged. I'm not in favor of the EFF et. al. civil suits because I don't believe it's about damages, it's about using civil courts to accomplish what they can't through normal (criminal) channels.
But, your assertion seems excessive. IIRC, shortly after 9/11 Muslim men were required to go to immigration offices, be interviewed by the FBI, etc. Many Muslims were deported over technical violations of immigration law (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). I'm not particularly fond of Islam (backwards rednecks who get far more "diversity sensitivity" due to western norms than they deserve). But, if I were one of those affected Muslim, I'd feel I'd been damaged (assuming telcos were used during that process of weeding out the bad apples).
Mark |
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Dogfather
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| If some Muslim (or anyone else) broke an immigration law, I don't care if it's a technical violation. If the violation calls for deportation, they should be deported. There should be no exceptions to the law.
The problem is the gov't lets illegals get away with it for so long, it's de facto amnesty. All these exceptions is how we end up with 20 million illegals crushing our infrastructure. People wait in line for years and years and follow all the rules while jackasses are allow to just cross the border or over stay their Visas and nothing happens to them.
IMO, anyone violating any immigration law is a bad apple and should be deported. That is what would happen to an American if say I was illegally working in Mexico. |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| said by Dogfather :If some Muslim (or anyone else) broke an immigration law, I don't care if it's a technical violation. If the violation calls for deportation, they should be deported. There should be no exceptions to the law. The problem is the gov't lets illegals get away with it for so long, it's de facto amnesty. All these exceptions is how we end up with 20 million illegals crushing our infrastructure. People wait in line for years and years and follow all the rules while jackasses are allow to just cross the border or over stay their Visas and nothing happens to them. IMO, anyone violating any immigration law is a bad apple and should be deported. That is what would happen to an American if say I was illegally working in Mexico. 12 million |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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| reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather :All these exceptions is how we end up with 20 million illegals crushing our infrastructure. OMG. You don't understand the immigration law. What I was referring to had nothing to do with 20 mil illegals (who are here largely due to reasons unrelated to immigration law). Immigration law can be extremely subjective for those who wait in line and try to follow the rules. And they don't have to prove that they're applying the law consistently (the reason I added "wink, wink, nudge, nudge.").
There appeared to lots of Muslims who had the law reapplied to them for the purpose of getting rid of them. Not Germans or Bolivians. Just Muslims.
So, it seemed a bit over the top to me that nobody suffered damages. If I were Muslim I'd feel damaged. (And, believe me, I'm not in love with Muslims.).
Mark |
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Dogfather
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1 edit | reply to JakCrow
20 million.
Bush an his Amnesty cronies put the number at 12 million because they want to give amnesty to all of them. Illegals don't respond to census questionaires.
Independent studies by firms like Bear-Sterns »www.bearstearns.com/bscportal/pd···ound.pdf put the number at 20 million and that was a few years ago. It's only gone up since then. |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| said by Dogfather :20 million. Bush an his Amnesty cronies put the number at 12 million because they want to give amnesty to all of them. Illegals don't respond to census questionaires. Independent studies by firms like Bear-Sterns » www.bearstearns.com/bscportal/pd···ound.pdf put the number at 20 million and that was a few years ago. It's only gone up since then. Sorry. The bearstern document says "may be as high as...". It does not state with any positive determination that it is so. You're simply using your own hysteria to fill in the numbers. |
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roc5955
Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY
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| reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather :If you get bent over privacy so much, you better not deal with ANY bank, ANY telco, ANY credit reporting agency, ANY company as the vast majority sell far more important data than who you called. Believe me when I say that if I didn't have to deal with some of these companies, I wouldn't. As it is, I only deal with my local credit union for banking, and they have assured me that they do not sell their information. As a matter of fact, it's one of their policies.
As far as the others are concerned, I do not have control over them, but if I could, I would sue them for every time I had to eat a cold dinner because one of their lackeys made a cold call.
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword." |
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