  happylurk
@look.ca
| [Serious] Border officials may seize iPods under trade deal
»www.nationalpost.com/news/story.···d=536951
quote: Border officials may seize iPods under trade deal
International regulator could police copyright
Vito Pilieci, Canwest News Service Published: Saturday, May 24, 2008
OTTAWA - The federal government is secretly negotiating a copyright agreement that could make some information on Canadian iPods, laptop computers or other personal electronic devices illegal.
Called the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA), the new plan would see Canada join other countries, including the United States and members of the European Union, to form an international coalition against copyright infringement.
The agreement is being structured much like the North American Free Trade Agreement except it will create rules and regulations regarding private copying and copyright laws.
Federal trade agreements do not require parliamentary approval.
The deal would create an international regulator that could turn border guards and other public security personnel into copyright police. The security officials would be charged with checking laptops, iPods and even cellular phones for content that "infringes" on copyright laws, such as ripped CDs and movies.
The guards would also be responsible for determining what is infringing content and what is not.
The agreement also proposes that any content that may have been copied from a DVD or digital video recorder would be open for scrutiny by officials -- even if the content was copied legally.
The leaked ACTA document states officials should be given the "authority to take action against infringers (i. e., authority to act without complaint by rights holders)."
Anyone found with infringing content in their possession would be open to a fine. They also may have their device confiscated or destroyed, according to the four-page document.
"If Hollywood could order intellectual property laws for Christmas, what would they look like? This is pretty close," said David Fewer, staff counsel at the University of Ottawa's Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic.
Michael Geist, Canada research chair of Internet and E-commerce law at the University of Ottawa and an expert on Canadian copyright law, said, "The lack of consultation, the secrecy behind it and the speculation that this will be concluded within a matter of months without any real public input is deeply troubling."
Both Mr. Fewer and Mr. Geist said once Canada signs the new trade agreement it will be next to impossible to back out of it.
In Canada, border guards already perform random searches of laptops at airports to check for child pornography. ACTA would expand the role of those guards.
The deal could also impose strict regulations on Internet service providers, forcing them to hand over customer information without a court order.
Well ain't that just peachy? Now I have to worry about customs goons searching thru my laptop if I wanna be entertained on a flight...
I'm gonna let them seize and destroy my notebook for a bananarama song? pfffft....
Just another reason not to travel these days... |
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 pat_lc2000
join:2006-02-04 Ottawa, ON
| There is no way this would ever be enforceable. How would they even know what on a laptop or Ipod is pirated or not. Border guards are not forezie computer experts. Plus you could just encript everything and claim privacy rights and demand a warrent to open it. |
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  Wolfie00 My dog is an elitist Premium join:2005-03-12
edit: May 24th, @04:06PM
| reply to happylurk The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement is certainly real, something that has been in the works at least since last summer. However, I'm more than a little skeptical about some of the wild speculation the writer makes about what the agreement "could" entail. The idea of border guards scanning your laptop for .mpeg or .avi files while you wait kind of stretches credibility. What also got my attention, in another wild bit of speculation, is the last sentence (emphasis mine): "The deal could also impose strict regulations on Internet service providers, forcing them to hand over customer information without a court order." Well, yes, it "could", but there have been several landmark court cases establishing precedent for exactly the contrary.
So this "could" be a huge disaster from the standpoint of privacy if it comes to pass as described, but at first glance it strikes me as a great deal of unnecessary alarmist fear-mongering on the part of a reporter who either doesn't understand what the agreement really entails, or just likes writing alarmist stuff. From what I have seen, this is mostly intended to target commercial counterfeiting. -- "Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer "A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher
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  Scoop
join:2006-08-05 Kanata, ON | reply to happylurk I don't see that customs officers would necessarily have the skills or the time to determine if downloads are legal or not. |
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  alex4life Alex4life Premium join:2001-06-22 Delta, BC
| said by Scoop :I don't see that customs officers would necessarily have the skills or the time to determine if downloads are legal or not. I thought part of the point of the article was saying that the customs officers get to decide what is legal or not, so you could be fined and have your stuff confiscated even if that Bananarama song was legally purchased. -- "For in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's future, and we are all mortal." - John F. Kennedy |
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 pat_lc2000
join:2006-02-04 Ottawa, ON | reply to happylurk The thing is, the fines would never stand up in court even if it wasn't legally purchased. Especially given Canadians laws on the subject. |
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  Snickerdo Premium join:2001-02-28 Niagara Falls, ON
·Cogeco Cable
| reply to happylurk They aren't going to go around seizing iPods. There are some counterfeit devices that are so blatantly fake and yet still have Apple trademarks on them. These are the ones that would be an issue. A legitimate issue or a knock-off that makes no mention of Apple trademarks aren't of any concern. -- I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. |
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  Feets "Your" doesn't mean "You Are", dammit. Premium join:2002-12-11 Hamilton, ON
·Cogeco Cable
| said by Snickerdo :They aren't going to go around seizing iPods. There are some counterfeit devices that are so blatantly fake and yet still have Apple trademarks on them. These are the ones that would be an issue. A legitimate issue or a knock-off that makes no mention of Apple trademarks aren't of any concern. I think they're talking about the stuff on the iPod, not the iPod itself. |
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 horsemouth Premium join:2002-03-13 canada
·Eastlink Cable
| said by Feets :said by Snickerdo :They aren't going to go around seizing iPods. There are some counterfeit devices that are so blatantly fake and yet still have Apple trademarks on them. These are the ones that would be an issue. A legitimate issue or a knock-off that makes no mention of Apple trademarks aren't of any concern. I think they're talking about the stuff on the iPod, not the iPod itself. Bingo Quote from the National Post: The federal government is secretly negotiating a copyright agreement that could make some information on Canadian iPods, laptop computers or other personal electronic devices illegal. |
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  Wolfie00 My dog is an elitist Premium join:2005-03-12
| reply to Feets said by Feets :said by Snickerdo :They aren't going to go around seizing iPods. There are some counterfeit devices that are so blatantly fake and yet still have Apple trademarks on them. These are the ones that would be an issue. A legitimate issue or a knock-off that makes no mention of Apple trademarks aren't of any concern. I think they're talking about the stuff on the iPod, not the iPod itself. You're both missing the point. The article is talking about a new agreement regarding copyright enforcement to which Canada may be signing up, that allegedly would have customs officers examining the content of music players and laptops and giving them the power to impose fines or seize the devices if infringing material was found. The argument that I was making is that this sounds like groundless speculation about a measure that is supposed to combat large-scale commercial piracy, not whatever you happen to have on your laptop or music player. It is in fact impossible in the broad general case for an observer like a customs officer to infer whether electronic material in your possession is pirated or whether you possess it legally under Canadian copyright fair dealing provisions, otherwise you would need to walk around with Certificates of Authenticity pasted to your forehead for every song on your music player; in addition, Canadian courts have been far more active in standing up for the individual in IP cases than those in the U.S. or even the U.K. -- "Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace" -- Dr. Albert Schweitzer "A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher
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  corster Premium join:2002-02-23 Ottawa, ON clubs: 
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| If interpreting the scope of this legislation to the extreme, YES they would. However customs officials won't do it, because it's not in their union contract (and because it's a huge waste of their time) -- Conservative Party of Canada |
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 NCRGuy
join:2008-03-03 Ottawa, ON
| said by corster :If interpreting the scope of this legislation to the extreme, YES they would. However customs officials won't do it, because it's not in their union contract (and because it's a huge waste of their time) Job descriptions are not part of their collective agreement. |
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  Mashiki Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04 Woodstock, ON
·mybrighthouse
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| If the employees decide that they want to make it one they will. And they'll get job descriptions as part of their collective agreement, with the exact scope of what they have to and don't have to do.
Regardless, encrypt your data if you have to and simply refuse to give up the pass phrase. For Ipod's and data(music/movies/whatever)? Prove it. |
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  happylurk
@look.ca
| said by Mashiki :Regardless, encrypt your data if you have to and simply refuse to give up the pass phrase. For Ipod's and data(music/movies/whatever)? Prove it. Withholding a password would probably be construed as an obstruction charge.
As for them proving anything? Customs and Revenue operate under the principle of Reverse Onus. YOU have to prove you're innocent, not the other way around. They don't have to prove squat. If you try to bring anything across the border you'd better have receipts to prove where and when you bought it... |
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 yabos
join:2003-02-16 Ingersoll, ON
| reply to happylurk Can someone tell these morons that ripping a CD is NOT ILLEGAL IN CANADA. GTFO of my property. Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? How are they going to PROVE you have anything "illegal" in 5 minutes at the border. Oh yeah, copying/ripping DVDS is LEGAL in Canada too. |
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  happylurk
@look.ca
| Unless you've been living under a rock you'd realize that they are trying to ramrod another Copyright Bill a la DMCA in Canada again before the current parliamentary session ends for summer.
»Canadian DMCA May be Established to Criminalize Copyrights
And since this particular item is a matter of border control, Canadian laws need not really apply...
Frankly if yer crossing the border into the US they won't give a flying fig about your God-Given Canadian Rights... |
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 NCRGuy
join:2008-03-03 Ottawa, ON
| reply to Mashiki said by Mashiki :If the employees decide that they want to make it one they will. And they'll get job descriptions as part of their collective agreement, with the exact scope of what they have to and don't have to do. Actually, no. Their job description is separate from their collective agreement. |
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  harwoodr Pornographic Memory Premium join:2002-09-05 Hamilton, ON
·Mountain Cable
| reply to happylurk Further to the ramrodding of the US style copyright act, here's some "Frequently Awkward Questions" to ask Minister Prentice about the copyright act situation:
»www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2962/135/ -- "Yahoo Doré" is Who-speak for "Where the hell is my stuff?" - Howard Tayler - »www.schlockmercenary.com/ |
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  AR Premium,ExMod 2001-04 join:2000-09-21 Toronto, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to happylurk said by happylurk :
As for them proving anything? Customs and Revenue operate under the principle of Reverse Onus. YOU have to prove you're innocent, not the other way around. They don't have to prove squat. If you try to bring anything across the border you'd better have receipts to prove where and when you bought it... Absolutely. |
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  Airwolf Premium join:2001-10-30 Windsor, ON clubs: edit: May 26th, @02:15PM
| reply to happylurk nevermind |
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