BobTheVeg
join:2004-09-05
Montreal, QC
| Need help/tips about DSL connection speed
Before They Fixed the Problem | 
After They Fixed the Problem | 
DMT Tweaks |
I recently had trouble with my connection ( getting disconnected very frequently ). I called my ISP ( aei.ca ) and they told me that Bell would handle it and verify my line. A day after I got a call from both Bell and aei. Bell said that there was indeed a problem and that it was fixed. Aei called and asked if the problem was solved and they did fix the connection problem.
This problem never happened to me in the last 4 years I have been with aei.
Now I am facing a new problem and it is my connection speed.
I am using a GNet BB0060B.
Model: Viking
H/W Version: 810012
S/W Version: VIK-1.38.030917a
My connection profile seems to have changed. I am wondering if I can tweak it back as it was before or there is nothing I can do.
I could not find any information on those:
RValue, SValue, DValue
I would like to know if this information is good and if I can improve it:
Local Tx Power: 12.13 dB
Remote Tx Power: 8.11 dB
Local Line Atten.: 35.0 dB
Remote Line Atten.: 16.0 dB
Local SNR Margin: 17.5 dB
Remote SNR Margin: 6.0 dB
The DMT screen shows that I could change:
- lower the Tx Attun
- the bits per bin
- the coding gain
- ec fdm mode
- up/down bin allocation
I have no idea what to adjust. | |
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McSummation
Mmmm, Zeebas Are Tastee.
Premium,MVM
join:2003-08-13
Round Rock, TX | Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed It looks like they "fixed" your problem by dropping your sync speed. You might want to start by calling them and asking why they did that instead of fixing what ever it was that was wrong. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Hi,
I use a GNet BB0060B as well so i wrote this for the GNet owners:
GNet Tweaking, Bicephale, 2008-Feb-18
Considering you're now on a 2496/640 Kbps profile, try:
"max. Bits/Bin" = 14
"UpStream (Tx) Bins" = 8 (Start), 24 (End)
"DownStream (Rx) Bins" = 36 (Start), 192 (End)
"Coding Gain" = 7
Once this is done you'll need to capture 24 h CRC Error
rate curves in order to see if it's reasonable to ask AEI
for a better profile... By the way, Bell didn't "fix" much
that i could see! Your "Remote SNR Margin" remains too
close to 6 dB and that's the problem they had to fix...
Oh, one other thing: DON'T FLASH YOUR GNET BB0060B
OR YOU MIGHT END UP READING THIS SORT OF THREAD:
Now you've been warned!
Finally, i suspect you may have a wiring issue so i'd
like to know if you can deal with it: house wiring...
I also wrote something in order to help a bit with that:
The customer's own wiring, Bicephale, 2007-Jun-13
The objective is to turn as much red/purple into green as you can,
so that in return your CRC Error rate and RCO figures improve - the
later being available only through your ISP using Bell's resources... | |
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 | BobTheVeg
join:2004-09-05
Montreal, QC
| Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed I was looking for something like this: »www.wilcominc.net/Item.cfm?ProdID=35
To centralize my home wiring. Is there a good online shop where I can find comparable product in Canada.
I also tryed to set my GNet BB0060B to:
"max. Bits/Bin" = 14
"UpStream (Tx) Bins" = 8 (Start), 24 (End)
"DownStream (Rx) Bins" = 36 (Start), 192 (End)
"Coding Gain" = 7
But I am facing the problem that in order to be able to make my router connect with a PPPoE connection I must reboot the DSL with default configuration otherwise my router will never connect. Doing so, I lose the configuration.
I assume that I must have a COM1 cable to use the console in order to apply configurations. | |
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| | | BobTheVeg
join:2004-09-05
Montreal, QC
| Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed I guess I am now part of the pioneer club !
I managed to build my own rs-232c cable and I can connect with DMT/change settings while using my ipCop router for PPPoE dial.
I'll have results in 24h. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed Wow! That's a 1st all right, especially with a GNet!!!
Now there's a very good reason to like console ports!
Handy, insn't it?!... Sincere congratulations, really!
 | |
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| | | | | BobTheVeg
join:2004-09-05
Montreal, QC
| Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed
24h with config |
I just noticed that we have a different software version. I assume upgrading this is the danger of flashing you warned me about. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed Hi,
I looked at your 1st tweak attempt and marked
the elements which you may want to modify, my
suggestion is to proceed in three steps. 1st,
emulate previous tweak samples and yet try to
use realistic values when necessary (clearly,
"DownStream" and "Tx Power Atten.", considering
that an SNR Margin of 6 dB doesn't leave room
for "Tx Power Atten." adjustments). I'm not
sure the "DownStream" field can really affect
the final results but i'd give the ISP a phone
call and ask what the RCO numbers are in order
to have a clue what number to enter there...
Step 2 represents the major part of the work
to be done, you're on your own on this one as
it is not an exact "science"!... I recall that it
was necessary for me to acquire some "feeling"
relatively to how the US/DS tweaks worked, the
numbers i gave you are only for starters, it
was in hope to provide a setup that connects.
Step 3 is optional, once you got acquainted
with it much better it's permissible to explore a
tighter form of control, namely the bin weight.
I'm sorry that's all i can do, the DSL Reports
site doesn't work well for me tonight... I think
i'll be lucky if i can post at all! | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Hi again,
I revisited your inital post, i woke up and
thought maybe i could get thru once more...
When i align the numbers on a paper sheet,
these conclusions emerge: the attenuation
levels are both steady and so is the Remote/
UpStream SNR Margin which is a mere 6 dB. I
can observe both power levels fluctuate: on
the Local/UpStream side from 10.12 to 12.48
dBm, on the Remote/DownStream side from 7.63
to 8.63 dBm. Finally, the Local/DownStream
SNR Margin varies from 15.5 to 18 dB but we
see this happen quite often on DSL Reports.
Now, the "noise" curve says that your line
is suitably quiet except on some occasions.
The level of CRC Errors you're experiencing
is of no concern and it is normal to have so
few on an interleaved profile such as yours.
Well, there can be noise bursts but at the
moment this is what the curve leads to...
The UpStream SNR Margin, on the other hand,
is a major problem since there's no safety
margin left. I was hoping "Spectral Shaping"
would help here by allowing you to lower the
UpStream speed to something like 512, 384,
288 or even 256 Kbps - whatever it takes...
Unfortunately, the late 'DMT' capture appears
to indicate that your GNet BB0060B device is
not responding to tweaking the way mine does;
it's so puzzling i wonder if you saved this
configuration and rebooted (a cold power-up
boot, for example)... In any case, the final
objective is to make trade-offs relatively
to your UpStream signal as i just explained.
Lets suppose you managed to force this GNet
unit and its peer to negociate 2496/288 Kbps,
that doesn't mean you won't be able to find
a "sweet spot" where the UpStream SNR Margin
will be adequate/tolerable. Using "InterLeaved"
mode already, tweaking might buy you a raise
of profile but there's something wrong with
your attenuation levels: they tell me your
estimated "GNet distance" is shorter than my
own by five hundred meters and yet i'm on a
6016/512 Kbps Interleaving profile! So, it
seems to me it's likely because of a wiring
problem which Bell "fixed" by lowering your
profile instead of actually going after the
source of failure... I've thought of urban
cross-talk as the explanation but it would
not resurface like this just because one more
DSL neighbour arrived or switched to "Total"!
There are limits to what MoDem tweaking can
accomplish and trade-offs have to be made,
it's not going to resolve any phone line issues
magically but good trouble-shooting can help
you to understand the situation and then you
will be more persuasive when the time comes. | |
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| | | | | | | BobTheVeg
join:2004-09-05
Montreal, QC
| Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed
Reduced speed |
I enabled the log each 10min and noticed that the Downstream SNRM has hit 20.0 over the day which I never seen before. As opposed to 11.5 from my first screen shot. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
1 edit | Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed Hi,
There's still a problem with the UpStream SNR Margin
so it would be hard to convince your ISP to ask Bell
for a profile raise, in my own opinion! If the decision
were mine, i know i'd have a hard time trying to put
in the balance the fact that you're on "Interleaved"
mode vs your relatively stronger DownStream signal.
The areas coloured in purple are those you must focus
for the time being, while the ones in red shall guide
you toward the goal to attain... 1st of all, call the
ISP and request that they capture the statistics from
Bell's "Line Test" portal in order to know what your
RCO numbers are with and without tweaks, additionally
to the attenuation levels. The other numbers coming
from the ISP's end would be nice to see as well. As
for the tweaking itself, once you have done this you
will find that there's no easy way to accomplish this:
it's a slow process during which you must try to learn
what value ranges are acceptable. Ideally, this must
be done one parameter at a time and then you can try
combinations later... For example, it's probable the
MoDem won't connect if you change all the numbers at
once using extreme values; lower 1 parameter slightly
(in steps) each time until you reach a limit beyond
which issues occur. Keep in mind that this limit may
very well move while other parameters are optimized,
meaning you better revisit previous limits when some
progress is made and then back off a bit to remain in
the stable operating range. The objective is to give
away some transmission power and hence related noise:
watch the UpStream "Tx Pwr" (Transmition Power) level
in hope that a few less dBm will translate as a few
more dB, with the UpStream SNR Margin but possibly
also the DownStream SNR Margin since less local noise
should leave more room for the DownStream signal too.
Euh... I made an error about the RCO in this graphic:
you should read "Enter Maximum Theoretical Speed based
on RCO"!... It may equally tell us what's a viable target.
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| | | | BobTheVeg
join:2004-09-05
Montreal, QC
| Here is 2 pictures of the custom build RS-232c cable
I took an old "D-sub" of the remaining parts of an old computer. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dsubs.png
And an old COM1 mouse. I had to cut into the connector in order to see which color is which pin number.
I also pulled out the IDE pins of an old ISA sound card (CD-rom was connected on the sound card at that time). I used the pins to connect each wire together. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | Oh, and don't forget to try the [Refresh] button when
the 'DMT v2.20' readings don't seem to make sense!... | |
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BobTheVeg
join:2004-09-05
Montreal, QC | Here is some test I ran before and after. My connection was "fixed" during the 2008-05-22nd.
»/testhistory/1071579/5940e
I can clearly see that I received a 30ms ping increase. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | Oups!
I forgot to mention the Maximum Theoretical
Speed is supposed to be a multiple of 32... | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
1 edit | Hummm...
More comments!
Your present operating rangess are:
DownStream/Remote Power = 7.63 to 8.63 dBm
UpStream/Local Power = 10.12 to 12.48 dBm
UpStream/Local SNR Margin = 15.5 to 18.5 dB
-=*=-
2008-Jun-1:
Perhaps "UpStream/Local SNR Margin" should read
"DownStream/Local SNR Margin", it's a bit confusing
if one compares the Web GUI and 'DMT' outputs!...
-=*=-
As you can see, the SNR Margin gain, even if it
is improved relatively to the very 1st post, now
doesn't make much progress since 0.5 dB can't be
considered to be signidicant due to fluctuations.
I'll know you've started to implement a form of
Spectral Shaping once the numbers moved below
the Power ranges shown above. By the way, more
Power means more heat so i suggest you find a
way to keep your GNet relatively cold if the work-
load makes it necessary... Now, in reality it's not
what i would call an overwhelming task to tweak a
GNet: it can be slow but right now i see only three
fields which need to find their "sweet spot"...
The "max. Bits/Bin" box might make the DSL signal
paradoxically stronger when its values decreases
but even if it's made a bit more immune to noise
you may actually observe a lower SNR Margin past
the sweet spot. If you don't wish to evaluate the
whole sequence from 6 to 13 then i'd suggest you
try to proceed by halves. Determine what's the
limit, find the value halway and test this one. If it
works better, use that value as one of the new
limits and proceed in the same manner by finding
another half-value again. It's not garanteed to
work in a predictable way but you can try to save
some time and effort in that manner. Once your
trade-off via the "max. Bits/Bin" field is done,
you can work on the "Upstream frequency bands".
This one is trickier but a thinner/lower range
should translate as less local interference...
Lets say the upper limit is set to 32, that's as
close to your DownStream bandwidth as you should
get and you just want to do the opposite. Go way
down until it breaks and back off a bit to get a
working signal again. The bets are open, it may
be something like "8 - 14", "12 - 18", 6 - 14" or
whatever. Watch the transmission power level and
when you're satified that it's been decreased a
bit try a new "Bin Weight" ("max. Bits/Bin"), etc. | |
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| BobTheVeg
join:2004-09-05
Montreal, QC
| Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed
New DSL OvisLink OV303R2 |
The values are promising, I hope I'll reach a good profile with this. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed Hi,
I insisted a few times that you should get the RCO
numbers and then proceed further but i can see that
those OvisLink OV303R2 statistics suggest you can
be put on a 5056/640 Kbps Interleaved profile right
away! I'd still like to know how both devices will
compare once you're upgraded, 'DMT v8.07' supports
the BroadCom based MoDems so let us know if this
'DMT' build works for you, in any case! Good luck,
i noticed your UpStream SNR Margin is still 6 dB...
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| | | BobTheVeg
join:2004-09-05
Montreal, QC | Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed The OV303R2 can operate in both MoDem/Router and Bridge mode simultaniously. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed Hi,
I don't use a router so it's not possible for me
to make a statement with certainty but a Windows
'Miniport WAN' session using my GNet BB0060B or
my GNet GBB2060-Xi appears to indicate that they
switch modes automatically just like my ST546v6.
You probably mean that your OvisLink OV303R2 has
it's management servers available no matter what
mode you put it into but i could be mistaking...
Would this make any sense? You tell me! | |
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| | | | | BobTheVeg
join:2004-09-05
Montreal, QC
3 edits | Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed Yes exactly.
The networking gets confusing as the PPPoE dial can be on the same network as the LAN. In other word the modem, the router WAN&LAN and other PCs can all be on the same switch. and it allow you to get access to the internet via the router and still have access to the web interface of the modem. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed Hummm...
Marvelous! So, you don't have to make trade-offs
between having INet connectivity and statistics.
Just great. Now that i got the good news i'm only
more curious than i was before. Your course of
action has changed slightly since AEI decided to
provide a brand new DSL device for you to try. My
question is, how does it compare? Is it worth the
expen$e? ...and hence, can we see the figures?... | |
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| | | | | | | BobTheVeg
join:2004-09-05
Montreal, QC
| Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed I have not been re-synchronized yet. Of course I plan to compare this new modem against my old one. If I ain't getting any meaningful progress, this new modem ain't solving the real problem.
Toward my course of action, they kinda pushed me in a hurry to buy this modem in order to prevent sending someone to my home which would cost me 100+$ if the problem was the modem. To be honest, I don't mind paying for another modem after 5 years.
I also tried all version of DMT and none works with the OV303R2  . There is a several configuration page in the web interface which has similar features. Like choosing each bins 1 by 1 (255 check box).
The inner web page content is HIGHLY similar to : »www.support.dlink.com/emulators/···lcfg.htm
Only the skin is different. | |
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| | | | | | | | | BobTheVeg
join:2004-09-05
Montreal, QC
2 edits | Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed
Best I've got so far |
I am still not re-synchronized but I took off some upstream tones (0 to 4 obviously used by the regular telephone) and I received an instant boost in the downstream SNRM (21 to 23). The "Attainable Rate (Kbps)" also increased above 7000 Kbps. This confirms your post of "Spectral Shaping".
I tried other tone removal at the edge or randomly inside but no meaningful difference. I currently have no way to see which tone has the best SNRM value.
I tested for fun the impact of placing my speaker on the wire of the phone line alone the wire of the speaker and saw an instant drop in the SNRM value ( drop of 0.6 db ). Removing the speaker re-increased the SNRM value back to what it was.
Knowing this, I started trying other phone location and I achieved the following result in the screen shot.
Edit: the software seems almost identical to BEETEL 220BX ADSL2+ MODEM »www.techenclave.com/guides-and-t···916.html | |
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nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed said by BobTheVeg  :I was wondering if having the 4 wires on the telephone cable is important for the DSL modem. I am 95% sure that my current installation only has 2. You only need 2 wires (1 pair) for DSL. Most home phone wiring has 4 wires, 2 twisted pairs, in order to support 2 phone lines.
The "Attainable Rate (Kbps)" also increased above 7000 Kbps. Based on the stats that I have highlighted it looks like Bell has put you on a 3Mb/s profile. Your SNR and Attenuation both look fine. They should support at least a 5Mb/s profile. The Attainable Rate of 7.5Mb/s also confirms this.
Call aei on Monday, ask them to look at your line stats again and ask them to get Bell to increase your profile. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed Hi Nanook,
According to this, i'd say he's on a 2496/640 Kbps
Interleaved maintenance profile but i can be wrong... | |
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nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed said by Bicephale :According to this, i'd say he's on a 2496/640 Kbps Interleaved maintenance profile You are right.
In my haste to reply I forgot that the 2496 reported by the modem is not his actual speed but rather the profile setting.
In any case, his line can go a lot faster. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | Re: Need help/tips about DSL connection speed Of course it can go faster, this is why i find it so puzzling:
i've got worst atenutation than he actually does, after all... | |
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| | | | | | | | | BobTheVeg
join:2004-09-05
Montreal, QC
| said by nanook :Call aei on Monday, ask them to look at your line stats again and ask them to get Bell to increase your profile. I called them Friday and still waiting. I received the 2496/640 profile because it is what my old modem could handle without getting disconnected.
I managed to decrease the Output Power (dBm) by 0.1 for both up/down stream. I am almost connected at the demarcation box now. | |
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See 15 replies to this post |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| 
Spectral Shaping |
No black wire is going anywhere in the thread you
refer to: the last time i saw one of those doing
something, i were twenty years younger and my aunt
was making me take a look at a 'Princess' phone.
While reading "A wire is a wire is a wire", you'd
notice a flat two-conductors cable, this cable is
unusually sturdy and comes directly from the pole
located on the other side of the street. No other
wire than this pair is provided by Bell, a third
one has their label on it but it just connects to
the house's ground, actually. One photograph is
showing how the black wire wraps around the ends:
%20&%20Home%20Lines%20.JPG)
As you can see, i have no use of the black wire,
this photograph also shows Bell's main on the left.
The tones ("bins" on a GNet unit) which i believe
to be of most interest are those around the middle
ends: below 31 for the UpStream upper edge and
above 32 for the DownStream lower edge. I advise
you to make tests with as much room between those
two edges as possible. Tones going from 0 to 5
are not used as this is the voice band and bin 31
is supposed to be reserved for a marker. You can
play with the rest but Bell still hasn't upgraded
your profile just yet and the most important item
you need to know right now is the RCO numbers if
you intend to measure your progress! In fact, be
prepared to ask AEI to read the RCOs from Bell's
Line Test portal a few more times because i don't
see how you're going to determine the sweet spot
otherwise: allow me to remind you that on this
piece of HardWare you've got no Spectral Response
curve, no 24 h CRC Error rate curves and no RCO
figures... SNR Margins can be helpful but i've
shown that this sort of data can be misleading...
Relatively to RFI control, speaker magnets ain't
suitable for this task, i'm afraid. If you have
a very old A.M. radio which you can detroy then
there's a ferrite rod inside. A rod is't quite
as efficient as a toroid core but it might give
you a hint as to wether or not it's worth trying
to find ferrite toroidal cores for future tests.
Beware, ferrite rods are made of compressed powder
so these little gremlins must be handled cautiously! | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
3 edits | Hi again,
Nanook has a very good point here: call AEI to get
your profile upgrade if you haven't done so! I must
confess i'm not the best teacher around, it's easy
for me to overlook the fact that maybe you didn't
because that's the very 1st thing i'd do, naturally:
you can only use Spectral Shaping to optimize a few
parameters within the limits previously negociated
between your DSL unit and its peer DSLAM (e.g., you
cannot set the speed higher than what the profile is
set to and in your case it's 2496/640 Interleaved).
5056/800 Kbps FastPath would be nice for starters,
Spectral Shaping should allow you to find optimized
UpStream/DownStream speeds to suggest to AEI later.
Being on FastPath instead of Interleaved mode should
let you decide if the noise level is too high for you;
there again, Spectral Shaping will probably make it
possible for you to find a stable trade-off between
speeds and RCOs/CRC Error rates, etc. | |
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