dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
20095
share rss forum feed


HarvInSTL

@charter.com

Wiring requirement for UVerse?

We just purchased a new home and ATT will be here on Wednesday to install UVerse.

Long story short the previous owners drilled holes in the hardwood floors to bring coax & cat3 to surface board mounted boxes.

The first thing we did was pull the wiring and fill the holes so that we could have the floors refinished.

I planned on running new coax and cat5 thru the walls. What type of wiring is needed for a normal UVerse install?

The internet will need to be connected in our office while the tv will be in the living room at the other end of the home.

Do I need coax and/or phone/ethernet connections at either locations (living room for the tv or the office for internet)?

Thanks in advance!



gdm
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-15
Mchenry, IL
kudos:3
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

If you are doing it yourself then I would run cat5e for PC's and TV's. The STB's and DVR can handle coax for Cat5e.

I have my DVR on rg6 coax and the other STB on Cat5e. If I could fish it I would move my DVR to cat5e.

My RG is in my basement and everything is fed from that point. All coax was coming down into the basement. I get wireless signal throughout the house off the RG and outside no problem either.

Just make sure where you put the RG it's in a safe location and wiring from the NID to the RG is good.



ILpt4U
Premium
join:2006-11-12
Lisle, IL
kudos:9
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

I take it this is for a 1 TV and 1 Computer install?

If you are going to run new wire before the install, Run Cat 5/5e/6 from the NID (FTTN)/ONT (FTTP) to your gateway (RG) location (usually by either a TV and/or a computer that you want hard-wired). Then this connection can be punched down to an RJ-11 or an RJ-45 jack (if FTTN) or only an RJ-45 jack (FTTP). The tech will install the punch-down jacks at install.

Then another run of Cat 5/5e/6 from the RG location to the other device (from the RG to the TV if the RG is next to the computer, or from the RG to the computer if the RG is next to the TV). You could also use Coax to run from the RG to the TV, but I would recommend Cat 5/5e/6.

Assuming this is a FTTN job (this does not work with FTTP), you could run All RG-6 Coax as well, as we techs have Baluns that convert the VDSL signal from twisted pair to Coax. So if the RG is going by the computer, the run from the NID to the RG by the computer could be coax, and then the run from the RG back to the TV could be coax. But I would recommend Cat 5/5e/6.


Netpecker

join:2002-02-10
Naperville, IL

So do you have to run COAX or CAT5 from the NID?

I have a 2 story house on a cement slab (no basement or crawlspace), so running new cable is hard/impossible to do right. I have AT&T DSL now, and there is a phone jack right by my computer and one of my TV's. Can the RG be located there and hooked up via the phone jack?

If so, I have a COAX connection near that location that runs to the other TV. Could that work to take the signal from the RG to the other TV?

I really want to try UVerse, but I am leary of the wiring requirements.

Thanks in advance.



ILpt4U
Premium
join:2006-11-12
Lisle, IL
kudos:9
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

said by Netpecker:

So do you have to run COAX or CAT5 from the NID?

I have a 2 story house on a cement slab (no basement or crawlspace), so running new cable is hard/impossible to do right. I have AT&T DSL now, and there is a phone jack right by my computer and one of my TV's. Can the RG be located there and hooked up via the phone jack?

If so, I have a COAX connection near that location that runs to the other TV. Could that work to take the signal from the RG to the other TV?

I really want to try UVerse, but I am leary of the wiring requirements.

Thanks in advance.
It would depend. What kind of phone wiring is serving that phone jack right now? And is it a "home run" from the NID to that jack? Or does the line go to some inside wiring room/distribution point/panel?

If it is Cat 3, 5, 5e, or 6 wiring, it is usable IF IT IS or CAN BE MADE a home run. If it is quad or untwisted phone wire, then a new home run of either RG 6 Coax or Cat 5/5e/6 will be needed to serve the RG.

Is wrapping the house on the exterior an acceptable alternative for the home run? Some people do not want the wire on their house, and that is understandable, yet others are ok with a neat wire-wrap job.

As far as the coax between the TVs, if it is RG-6 or good quality RG-59 (and passes our HPNA tests), AND we can find any and all old splitters, boosters, and/or barrels, then yes we can use the current coax between that coax jack and the other TV.

What part of Naperville are you in, if you don't mind my asking? Naperville had been one of the towns that was fighting U-Verse by not granting Public Right-of-Way Permits for the VRADs. Has this changed? Is the service available to you now?

Netpecker

join:2002-02-10
Naperville, IL

wow.... thanks Joe.... you are over my head on a lot of these questions.

My house was built in 1997, so it's fairly new. The NID is in good shape. I researched the wiring before getting DSL back in 2003 when I was looking at putting a filter in the NID instead of each jack.

I have no clue if the wiring is a home run or if it is Cat 3, 5, 5e, or 6. Any easy ways to tell?

I would love to talk to someone like you, and do an assessment, before placing the order. I am VERY happy with my AT&T (formerly SBC Global) Elite DSL package and don't want to screw with it.

I do not want external wiring run, nor am I excited about poking more holes through my siding. If a "good" installer would perform the wiring, I would be fine with any option. In my experience, you never know what you're gonna get until they get here. If I could use my existing phone/COAX cabling, I would order now.

I am actually in Aurora city limits (corner of North Aurora and Eola). I haven't updated my DSL reports profile since moving from Naperville to Aurora. I have been getting tons of U-Verse offers in the mail, so I assume I am eligible.



Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL
reply to HarvInSTL

The best thing to do, is figure that for every place there will be Coax to the TV, pull at least two Cat-5e for Networking, and Cat-3 for Telephone.

If you plan on having Home Theater (ie Surround Sound), or Wall mounting a LCD or Plasma in the Living Room now, or Later, figure also at that point having to pull down the wall from the mount point a wire for HDMI, Coax, possible Fiber connection, and at the lower point, 7 wires for the Sound.

Best to have a plan on paper, before committing to multiple trips to the store for all the parts.



ILpt4U
Premium
join:2006-11-12
Lisle, IL
kudos:9
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

2 edits
reply to Netpecker

Easy way to tell if you have a home run: Attempt to follow the wire from that jack that your DSL uses back to the NID, and see if there are any splices or junction points where other phone wire breaks off.

As far as how to tell if it is Cat 3 or better, I'd say the easiest is to take the jack off the wall and look at the wires that serve the jack. If there are wires that are blue, blue white, orange, orange white, green, green white, and maybe brown and brown white, etc etc, you have twisted pair wiring (which is good). If you have wires that are green, red, black, and yellow, then you have Quad wiring (which is no good). If you have untwisted wire, which could be red and white or any color, that is really no good.

You could snap a close up picture or two of the wiring that serves the jack, too, and post it. I'd let you know if it is Cat 3 or Cat 5/5e/6 (I can't really easily tell a visual difference between Cat 5, 5e, and 6). Also post a close up picture or two of the wiring inside the customer side of the NID (The customer side of the NID can be opened with a regular flat head screw-driver).

If you want to talk to someone who does low voltage wiring, look up low voltage electricians in the phone book (As a union tech, we are not supposed to do side-jobs, as it takes work away from union brothers and sisters).

As far as the Coax being acceptable, the tech on install day would have to test it out.

You could always place the order, it is free install (or at least was), and then be there with the tech, see what he is thinking and how to run the wire, and if it does not meet your expectations, tell him to get out and then call and cancel. I do not think there is a penalty for canceling because the customer did not approve of the installation...

I'd take care of you at your install, but unfortunately, I could not get a local garage (Lisle) and instead have to commute all the way up to McHenry County for my location. As a result, I will soon be moving to Crystal Lake...


harvinstl4

join:2006-02-11
Saint Louis, MO
reply to ILpt4U

said by ILpt4U:

I take it this is for a 1 TV and 1 Computer install?

If you are going to run new wire before the install, Run Cat 5/5e/6 from the NID (FTTN)/ONT (FTTP) to your gateway (RG) location (usually by either a TV and/or a computer that you want hard-wired). Then this connection can be punched down to an RJ-11 or an RJ-45 jack (if FTTN) or only an RJ-45 jack (FTTP). The tech will install the punch-down jacks at install.

Then another run of Cat 5/5e/6 from the RG location to the other device (from the RG to the TV if the RG is next to the computer, or from the RG to the computer if the RG is next to the TV). You could also use Coax to run from the RG to the TV, but I would recommend Cat 5/5e/6.

Assuming this is a FTTN job (this does not work with FTTP), you could run All RG-6 Coax as well, as we techs have Baluns that convert the VDSL signal from twisted pair to Coax. So if the RG is going by the computer, the run from the NID to the RG by the computer could be coax, and then the run from the RG back to the TV could be coax. But I would recommend Cat 5/5e/6.
Correct. At this time we are only planning on the single HDTV upstairs and the internet access in the office. (Which has 4 servers and my workstation. All three laptops are wireless. I am making the assumption that I would be able to take the cat5 that would normally connect to the computer and connect that to the Internet port on my router and allow the router to handle dns forwarding, dhcp,etc?

We are moving some more stuff over to the house tonight so I will take a look at the NID. I was incorrect earlier when I stated that they had run Cat3, they had indeed ran quad.

Does it matter where the RG is located? For my instance it would be easier if I only have to run a cat5 to the office for the RG and a cat5 from the office to the living room for the tv. (Basically that only requires a single whole house run, compared to the two whole house runs needed if the RG is located by the tv.)

Is there a simple way to check if I would be dealing with fiber to the premise or to the node?

Thanks again for the prompt and information filled replies!


ILpt4U
Premium
join:2006-11-12
Lisle, IL
kudos:9
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

1 edit

Yes. Go to the Phone box at the side of the house. If it is roughly 8"x12", you are FTTN (the box would be called a "NID"), and of course FTTN is fiber to the node (called a VRAD), and then copper phone line the rest of the way from the node to the prem.

If your phone box is about 2'x1', you are FTTP (the box would be called an "ONT").

Also, an ONT needs power, whereas a NID does not.

Another good way: FTTP is only in green-fields (new developments). If your house/premise is brand new, then you are probably FTTP (but could still be FTTN). If your house is not brand new, then you are almost certainly on FTTN.

As far as feeding your router, that can cause problems, as the RG (residential gateway) is itself a router, and some users have reported problems having a router behind a router. However, other users have had no problems. I would set your second router to the DMZ Plus setting from the gateway's setting page. That should help.

As far as locating the RG, the only considerations I usually apply are 1) if the customer plans on using the RG's wireless internet (it is also a 802.11 b/g WiFi Wireless Router), I try not to locate it in a basement, as basements are horrible places to generate the wireless signal for whole-home coverage. 2) If I can, I like to put it either near 2 or more ethernet devices (compters and/or STBes), so I can plug straight in there and end up running less wire, or next is put in near computers, and then after that put it near the DVR. But honestly, if it is just 1 data line to feed your second router, and the 1 data line to feed the TV, then my preference as an installer would be to put it in your computer room, and have the RG near your computers.

So basically wiring needs for your job would be:

NID/ONT -->>-- Cat 5e/6 -->>-- Computer room, into a Green RJ-11/Red RJ-45 jack

If FTTN, the VDSL pair is punched down to an RJ-11 jack (I would mark with a green cover) and then the RG will plug from that jack into the "green" port on the RG, using the green twisted pair cable w/ RJ-11 ends that comes with the RG. If FTTP, the ethernet pairs are punched down to an RJ-45 jack (I would mark with a red cover) and then the RG will plug from that jack into the "red" port on the RG, using a standard Cat 5 Ethernet Patch cable/jumper.

And then, to feed your TV: An ethernet jumper/patch cable from one of the "yellow" RG LAN ports that plugs into another RJ-45 jack (I would mark with a yellow cover).

Computer Room Yellow RJ-45 jack -->>-- Cat 5e/6 -->>-- TV Room Yellow RJ-45 Jack

Then an ethernet jumper/patch cable from that yellow jack to the ethernet port on the back of the DVR/STB


harvinstl4

join:2006-02-11
Saint Louis, MO

1 edit

Ok, after doing a little searching it appears that I do not have a phone box on the outside of the house.

I had to bust out my fox & hound but I was able to track back the phone wiring in the house to a location in the basement.

Here is what I found.


So I headed back outside and found the wire that was coming into the home that was connected in the first picture.

As you can see in the picture the line comes from the basement, into the roof and out the far left part of the roof.



And I then followed that line out to the pole.

\

Thoughts? Well at least the good news is that I'm about 740 feet from the VRAD.



Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL

Instead of 3rd party hosting on the pic's, you can attach them to your message. As for the connection, you should have had a NID attached to the house sometime ago, but since it was not, I would have it done.


harvinstl4

join:2006-02-11
Saint Louis, MO

said by Greg_Z:

Instead of 3rd party hosting on the pic's, you can attach them to your message. As for the connection, you should have had a NID attached to the house sometime ago, but since it was not, I would have it done.
Is installing the NID something the uverse tech can/will do when he/she arrives tomorrow?


Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL

It is something that should of been done sometime ago. What AT&T will do, is install the required box on the side of the house, pull a length of Cat-3 to the wires in the house, and also pull a length of RG-6 & Cat-5e.

For the time you spent asking questions, I myself could of had Networking wiring & equipment, and fixed any problems in the house that needed to be done, which from the looks of it seem to be minor, unless your Coax that you have with Charter, if that is who you have for CATV now, is not RG-59, which is doubtful.



ILpt4U
Premium
join:2006-11-12
Lisle, IL
kudos:9
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

1 edit

3 Things:

1) Your drop wire from the phone pole to your house will need replaced. That is non-twisted drop wire, which is no good for U-Verse. A Traditional Phone (I&R) Tech replaces this.

2) You will need a NID, which is where the drop line from the Phone Pole meets your inside wiring. Standard practice is to put it on the outside of the house, but they might go inside where your current phone termination point is (the one you took pictures of in your basement). The Phone (I&R) Tech will install this as well

3) Your inside wiring is all quad, which is no good for U-Verse VDSL, so the U-Verse Prem Tech will need to run a new "home run" cat 5e cable from your NID to your Remote Gateway location.

They will get your going, but those elements from your premise must be upgraded, and AT&T WILL upgrade them as part of the U-Verse Install Process.

Oh and for the record, you are on FTTN for U-Verse. The "Node" is one of the tan boxes in the last picture you posted (the Node is also known as the VRAD -- the other box is your neighborhood Cross-Connect Box, X-Box for short).