Megladon
| reply to pnh102
Re: More Proof that Municipal Internet Bans are Needed
Hey dingleberry, this town didnt have any bridge falling of any kind, that was Minneapolis. Cant we let the rest of the state do whatever it wants to make its people and government happy while Minneapolis works out its own bridge problems (and already enjoys its own city wide wifi). Quit being a corporate tool. |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| reply to pnh102
It's a well established technology for disaster response in Japan (in particular for earthquake response). Japan is really the bleeding edge where they are using a dedicated ultra broadband satellite for emergency response.
In the U.S., we basically have to send out units blind and normally get up to date imagery 2-6 weeks after the disaster incident, if that. Mobile units basically go out for field assessment with old data because there is not enough bandwidth to update them regularly.
In other words, there is no existing working technology in this area in the United States.
Similarly for the parcel fabric idea... what cities basically do now is spend several hundred thousand a year ($5-10 per parcel) to do the data updates not including data acquisition and salaries. Yes, people get by without it, but the cost expenditure is easily in the millions per year for a city the size of Minneapolis. Adding in the bandwidth can allow the shift towards stronger use of lidar and aerial imagery for assessment and cadastrel resulting in a very significant drop in annual costs. On top of that, it would allow citizens to get routine free access to that data. Right now that data is free for some areas (like St Louis County) while I have seen some cities charge seven figures for that data (essentially closing all access outside of the city office). The service is there, but it is only available to major title companies.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to marigolds
said by marigolds  :Well, since my field is GIS and I know the twin cities are leaders in municipal GIS... I imagine office to office terabyte imagery transfers for the parcel fabric would be a start. I see what you're saying but on the flip side, say that the twin cities cannot currently do this because they lack this network. I could agree with the idea if the Twin Cities needed to be able to do what you say in order to provide a vital city service to the people who live there. But if the people are getting by just fine without it, it makes it harder to justify the spending.
said by marigolds :Also very useful for disaster response and public safety when prepping mobile units (ideally weekly refreshes of ~300GB of data, but realistically most cities right now are only refreshing every 2 years and using dispatchers to fill in the gaps). Hmmm... if this bleeding edge technology I don't think relying on it for disaster response is the best of ideas. Although this is a bit of a segue, we saw what happened to 911 service in New England when FairPoint decided to change out the existing, working technology for something new. It was a disaster.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| reply to pnh102
Well, since my field is GIS and I know the twin cities are leaders in municipal GIS...
I imagine office to office terabyte imagery transfers for the parcel fabric would be a start.
Also very useful for disaster response and public safety when prepping mobile units (ideally weekly refreshes of ~300GB of data, but realistically most cities right now are only refreshing every 2 years and using dispatchers to fill in the gaps).
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to marigolds
said by marigolds :I searched the whole article and did not find that phrase anywhere in it. The article stub here is a misleading. It's a municipal gigabit ultrabroadband network, not a municipal wireless network. Even if that's the case, I don't see how this is going to spur any competition in the consumer Internet market. Not many people can purchase the equipment needed to access such a network.
But it still begs the question, why is such a network needed? What can't the city do currently that it would need such a network to do?
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :said by marigolds :Okay, you did not read the article. Wireless internet is not mentioned even once in the entire article. What about this? quote:
The region says that it's continuing to look into expanding a municipal wireless network based on fiber which will hopefully offer speeds that can compete globally for years to come.
Running wifi on fiber... that just defeats the whole point of fiber if you want speed. I searched the whole article and did not find that phrase anywhere in it.
The article stub here is a misleading. It's a municipal gigabit ultrabroadband network, not a municipal wireless network.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to pipdipchip
said by pipdipchip :The state of Minnesota and their bridges have nothing with funding for Municipal Wi-Fi in St. Paul. Government is charged with particular responsibilities, keeping roads in working order is one of them, providing wifi on the taxpayer's nickel isn't.
said by pipdipchip :If residents, want their town to have Wi-Fi, who are you or who is Comcast/ Qwest to tell them otherwise? What if the next politician runs for office offering taxpayer-financed Bentleys to all the people, all on the taxpayer's nickel of course. Would that still be good?
Government at all levels, at least theoretically, was always supposed to be limited in scope. Unfortunately, politicians have figured out that the best way to win votes is to simply neglect doing the things that government should be doing and instead give out as many "freebies" as possible instead. It makes it much easier to raise taxes so that the things that should be done can be done.
said by pipdipchip :God forbid should these near-Monopolistic companies have any competition... There is nothing stopping private citizens from raising capital and investing their own money into such a venture. At least then should it fail, they, not we, take the hit.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to KrK
said by KrK :Fiber is a lot faster then Wi-Fi. Not if you use wifi as a mechanism for getting to the fiber. Even the fastest wifi will not come close to utilizing the bandwidth available with fiber.
said by KrK :Besides, if the incumbents have a muni threat to kill, they'll offer their best products (VDSL, DOCSIS 3.0 etc) and have sales on prices, so the consumers will have nice speed options and so on.... at least until the Muni threat is killed.... then the lockstep price hikes and so on can begin. And the taxpayers lose because of the tax hikes and/or government service cuts that will be needed to make the government provided Internet work. We've seen this happen in just about every city where municipal Internet, particularly wireless, has been tried. Why do other cities need to continue proving that municipal wifi doesn't work?
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to marigolds
said by marigolds :Okay, you did not read the article. Wireless internet is not mentioned even once in the entire article. What about this?
quote:
The region says that it's continuing to look into expanding a municipal wireless network based on fiber which will hopefully offer speeds that can compete globally for years to come.
Running wifi on fiber... that just defeats the whole point of fiber if you want speed.
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
1 edit | reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :The silly notion that the government thinks wireless is the way to go for a speedy network shows very clearly that these governments are completely and totally unqualified to set any sort of broadband policy. Okay, you did not read the article. Wireless internet is not mentioned even once in the entire article.
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
| reply to pnh102
Fiber is a lot faster then Wi-Fi.
Besides, if the incumbents have a muni threat to kill, they'll offer their best products (VDSL, DOCSIS 3.0 etc) and have sales on prices, so the consumers will have nice speed options and so on.... at least until the Muni threat is killed.... then the lockstep price hikes and so on can begin.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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pipdipchip
8 Megabits A Second
Premium
join:2003-12-04
Hanover, MN
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :The silly notion that the government thinks wireless is the way to go for a speedy network shows very clearly that these governments are completely and totally unqualified to set any sort of broadband policy. The state of Minnesota should step in and ban such activity. Perhaps instead it should focus on keeping bridges from collapsing instead. 1. The state of Minnesota and their bridges have nothing with funding for Municipal Wi-Fi in St. Paul.
2. As with law passed, it must (should) be supported by the residents of the municipality. If residents, want their town to have Wi-Fi, who are you or who is Comcast/ Qwest to tell them otherwise?
3. God forbid should these near-Monopolistic companies have any competition...
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dav0r
translate
Premium
join:2003-06-15
Albertville, MN
·Charter Pipeline
·Embarq
| reply to madon
Agreed. Wireless will rule. It doesn't matter how much it may be killing babies or whatever. It's cheaper to deploy and it's a matter of time. It's why I left landline to go over to the dark side of wireless in the telephony business.
P.S. $%#* Comcast... |
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madon
@direcpc.com | reply to halfband
dude! i remember reading a year ago wireless radios broke the 1gb barrier. forget fios forget docsis 3.0 |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL | reply to EPS
Odd, but the article seems be talking about fiber broadband to replace T1s, not wi-fi.
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Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812 |
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | reply to pnh102
Yes- why would anyone think a wireless network would offer higher speeds than a land-line network? (Well, I suppose maybe DSL would be slower, but note cable is here as well offering very high speeds) |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| The silly notion that the government thinks wireless is the way to go for a speedy network shows very clearly that these governments are completely and totally unqualified to set any sort of broadband policy.
The state of Minnesota should step in and ban such activity. Perhaps instead it should focus on keeping bridges from collapsing instead.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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