Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
| reply to Kringle
Re: ARRGH! False 911 Calls
said by Kringle  :As much as I tried to convince the officers that no call was made from my phone they would not leave until they had searched my house!!! Wha? I hope you rightfully requested that they have a warrant signed by a JP before you let them "search" your home! It's your right, and the burden of proof is on them, not you.
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I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. |
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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs: | The police know who I am. For many reasons.  |
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Kringle
Dr.D
Premium
join:2004-02-27
Pierrefonds, QC | LOL!!! |
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Kringle
Dr.D
Premium
join:2004-02-27
Pierrefonds, QC
 ·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Snickerdo
said by Snickerdo :I hope you rightfully requested that they have a warrant signed by a JP... Actually, no. I have nothing to hide and just wanted to go back to bed (3:45 AM). IMO, asking for a warrant would have simply prolonged the issue and served no useful purpose. It was only a superficial "search"; look in each room and open the closet (in which there are no skeletons) doors. |
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Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
| said by Kringle :Actually, no. I have nothing to hide and just wanted to go back to bed (3:45 AM). IMO, asking for a warrant would have simply prolonged the issue and served no useful purpose. It was only a superficial "search"; look in each room and open the closet (in which there are no skeletons) doors. You'd be surprised. I was in a similar situation but still refused the search. They got lippy, at which point I requested that they send their sergeant and closed the door in their face. They sat in the driveway in their car for about an hour while I went back inside and went about my day. A few hours later a supervisor showed up and apologized for the conduct of the officers.
You had every right to close the door in their face and go back to bed if they gave you any lip about requesting a warrant, and remember this - if they had legal grounds to search your home, they would have already come with a warrant.
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I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | When they're responding to a 911 call, there isn't time to get a warrant. Remember the scenario ... you could be a home invader and the real residents are bound inside. |
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Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
| said by sbrook :When they're responding to a 911 call, there isn't time to get a warrant. Remember the scenario ... you could be a home invader and the real residents are bound inside. Again, if they had probable cause to search your home, they would have never asked for permission.
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I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. |
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Grappler
join:2002-09-01
Ottawa, ON
| said by Snickerdo :said by sbrook :When they're responding to a 911 call, there isn't time to get a warrant. Remember the scenario ... you could be a home invader and the real residents are bound inside. Again, if they had probable cause to search your home, they would have never asked for permission. The fact that a 911 call was made and recorded is all the grounds they need, as they are responding to an emergency, possibly life & death situation. It will be the courts to decide if there was an illegal search. A good peace officer would risk an admonition in court if it meant possibly saving a life. |
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Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
| said by Grappler :The fact that a 911 call was made and recorded is all the grounds they need, as they are responding to an emergency, possibly life & death situation. It will be the courts to decide if there was an illegal search. A good peace officer would risk an admonition in court if it meant possibly saving a life. ... and like I said, if they wanted to do this they would have never asked permission. Anything found during a search that was claimed to be probable due to a phantom 911 call would never be admissible in court, either. A 911 call itself is not probable cause for a search. They need more than that to be able to invade your privacy without a warrant.
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I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. |
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uhg
@videotron.ca
1 edit |
The fact of the matter is that there was a 911 call. The police cared, and Kringle let them roam the house to make sure everything was safe.
{edited for content} |
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CanerisErik
Caneris
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-03
Toronto, ON
| reply to Kringle
said by Kringle :I have nothing to hide That's how it begins, with such an attitude.
Maybe you think the same about Bell's DPI? |
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Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
2 edits | reply to uhg
said by uhg :
The fact of the matter is that there was a 911 call. The police cared, and Kringle let them roam the house to make sure everything was safe. Good for Kringle. If I had cops show up at my door at 3AM demanding to search my home, I would tell them to fuck off and slam the door in their face. I, you and everyone else here would be well within their legal right to do so. As I said - and again, this isn't what I "think", it's what is correct - if the cops had legal grounds to search they would not need permission from the home owner to do so and would instead take it upon themselves to fulfil their lawful duty as a peace officer. As I said, the burden of proof is on THEM, not you. We don't live in a police state. End of story.
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I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.
{Edited to fix context due to previous modded post} |
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Keith
Why Ask Than?
Premium
join:2002-10-28
Fort Erie, ON
| reply to Snickerdo
said by Snickerdo :.. and like I said, if they wanted to do this they would have never asked permission. Anything found during a search that was claimed to be probable due to a phantom 911 call would never be admissible in court, either. A 911 call itself is not probable cause for a search. They need more than that to be able to invade your privacy without a warrant. And the Murder that just hid your body in the bedroom and was impersonating you at the door would get off because the police did not have probable cause?
However you are right the police can't just enter your home without a search warrant, or probable cause.
Judge: did you have probable cause to enter Nicks home?
Officer: Yes a 911 hangup call, and I did not believe the person that answered the door.
Judge: and what did you find?
Officer: nothing sir,
Judge: Nick sorry you where inconvenienced for that few min's it took for the officers to investigate, But at least your alive Move on
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When a man talks dirty to a woman, it's sexual harassment. When a woman talks dirty to a man, it's $3.95 a minute |
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Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
1 edit | Right, no one here is denying that the police could have probable cause to verify you're who you are if there is a 911 call. The point I'm trying to make is that you are well within your legal right to tell them to piss off, and if they come inside and find something illegal it would not be admissible in court because the 911 hangup call in itself is not probable cause for a search. They can search to verify who you are and that you're safe. That's it.
I've been through this crap before. I had someone constantly calling the cops making false accusations that I had things that belonged to him. The first two times I willingly let the officers in, showed them that I had nothing and they left. The third time the cops showed up with an attitude and didn't believe me when I told them I was through it before. After a quick argument regarding their incompetence due to not checking previous records, I told them that I wanted to speak with their supervisor and to get off my porch until either their supervisor showed up or they had a warrant. They got lippy, so I slammed the door in their face. A few hours later a sergeant showed up, apologized for what happened and asked if he gave me his word that this would never happen again if I'd let him take a look. Considering how polite the sergeant was, I let him in. He looked, saw nothing, thanked me and that was that. I never had an incident like that again. I still to this day see him in the community every now and then and he remembers the situation. Really good guy.
The point I'm trying to make is that police officers will do everything they can to make their job easy and not follow proper procedure. My opinion on the situation, after going through the bullshit I did, is that they're getting paid $70,000 a year to come to my door and I'm getting paid nothing to be on the other end. I'm not going to volunteers or make your job easy when you're getting paid to do it. Earn your paycheque, and don't expect any favours from me unless you earn it. Hopefully you'll now understand why I would slam the door in the face of a cop who wanted to "search" my home at 3AM.
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I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. |
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Keith
Why Ask Than?
Premium
join:2002-10-28
Fort Erie, ON
| Sorry for hijacking your thread DKS
said by Snickerdo :Right, no one here is denying that the police could have probable cause to verify you're who you are if there is a 911 call. The point I'm trying to make is that you are well within your legal right to tell them to piss off, and face possible charges of obstruction said by Snickerdo :and if they come inside and find something illegal it would not be admissible in court because the 911 hangup call in itself is not probable cause for a search. that part may be true said by Snickerdo :They can search to verify who you are and that you're safe. That's it. how can they you just slammed the door in their face?
said by Snickerdo :My opinion on the situation, after going through the bullshit I did, is that they're getting paid $70,000 a year to come to my door and I'm getting paid nothing to be on the other end.
$70,000 a year for putting their life on the line to protect yours and that's Nothing? humm interesting.
said by Snickerdo : Hopefully you'll now understand why I would slam the door in the face of a cop who wanted to "search" my home at 3AM. No I don't understand, I don't think I ever will, refusing entry to police that are trying to protect me and my family,
Some bad cops are out but as you have stated if they find anything aside from your body that would be tossed out of court
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When a man talks dirty to a woman, it's sexual harassment. When a woman talks dirty to a man, it's $3.95 a minute |
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Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
| said by Keith :and face possible charges of obstruction A police officer requesting to search and you saying "No" is not Obstruction. It only becomes Obstruction when they demand to search and you refuse. Look up the legal difference between a police request and a police demand for more information.
said by Keith :how can they you just slammed the door in their face? Because they requested, not demanded. See above. They're more than welcome to knock on my door again and change that request into a demand, but it would look real suspicious to their supervisors and to a judge if they didn't make a demand rather than a request in the first place.
said by Keith :$70,000 a year for putting their life on the line to protect yours and that's Nothing? humm interesting. Like I said, if they had grounds to search they would have made a demand, not a request. The fact that they are requesting is just to make their lives easier. You'll be qualified to make such comments after you went through the six months of hell I did.
said by Keith :No I don't understand, I don't think I ever will, refusing entry to police that are trying to protect me and my family, You don't understand because you've never experienced what I described. If you had, you would have a similar opinion to mine.
said by Keith :Some bad cops are out but as you have stated if they find anything aside from your body that would be tossed out of court They weren't bad cops, they were just lazy cops. I am of the opinion that we have a legal framework in this country that, under Section 8 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, guarantees me the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. If the search is reasonable, they wouldn't be requesting a search, they would be demanding it either under probable cause or with a warrant signed by a Justice of the Peace. I am a staunch supporter of Charter Rights. The police, as enforcers of the law, should be the first ones to respect the Charter. With that, I am of the opinion that they need to do their job properly and within the bounds of the law before I will extend them any sort of assistance or support. They wouldn't be making my life very easy by showing up at my door at 3AM and requesting to search my home even though I did nothing wrong, my family (and possibly small children) are asleep and I have to be at work for 8AM in the morning. I would have no intention of making their job any easier under those circumstances, either.
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I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. |
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