NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to obvoiusjoe
Re: Bring it on...
said by obvoiusjoe :
ALL isp's have this data anyway. It's called a DNS server.
What does the DNS server have to do with it? You can use any DNS server you like, including switching away from your ISP's DNS server.
What you can't do is avoid going through your ISP's aggregation routers. And that is exactly where the ISP will place the DPI appliance. You either go to the Internet through your ISP's DPI appliance, or you don't go to the Internet at all.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to shimonmor
This will be great when the low caps/bill by the byte is started too. Even if you block the ads, you will still be charged for them. |
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number3fan
Number3fan
join:2003-10-15 | reply to knightmb
Re: Fight Back Now!
Got a great name for this...... bandwidth waster :-P |
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knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to DownTheShore
said by DownTheShore  :Interesting. Your link will open up on FF, but on IE7 I get a redirect to a Gateway Google page. If I enter the IP address directly (obtained from the FF screen) I get: "The Website You Are Looking For Is No Longer Active. Please Contact Your Hosting Company" I did find a bug in the code related to the random site generation, not sure if that is what causes IE7 to bomb out. Yeah, direct site IP access is disabled for security reasons.
I did notice that it runs much slower in IE than all the others, mainly due to the way IE "stalls" on the invalid domains with it's own "domain not found" page. Can't help that in IE though, just the nature of the Microsoft beast.  |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to obvoiusjoe
Re: Bring it on...
said by obvoiusjoe :
Your point is off base. My point "nix" is that DNS servers store all this data anyway, and have been for decades. But people don't make such a big fuss over that for some reason. Actually, no, DNS servers don't "store all this data anyway". At least, not in the way you seem to think that they do, and definitely not in the way that would be useful in the context of a "service" like NebuAd. In the normal functioning of a DNS server (i.e., not in debug mode - and even then, you're generally not so much storing it as logging it), the only information that is cached, is the data that is looked up - not who (what client) looked it up.
said by obvoiusjoe :
Now all of a sudden, ISPs are cashing (or caching could be a better spelling) in and you act surprised. Only surprised in as much as ISPs used to prize their common-carrier protections. Things like this really put those protections into jeopardy.
said by obvoiusjoe :
I'll be happy to sit here and explain the OSI model and we can get deep with this if you want, Sure. Go ahead. This is 2008, not the mid 1980s, but I can sit around for story-time...
said by obvoiusjoe :
but for your sake, for your children's sake, please know that nothing you do online is ever 100% anonymous or safe. Ah, yes... The ever popular "for the children" argument. What next: NebuAd protects me from terrorism? You must have cried the day that Gonzales resigned.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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DownTheShore
Maddie Knows Poopie
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
clubs:
| reply to knightmb
Re: Fight Back Now!
Interesting. Your link will open up on FF, but on IE7 I get a redirect to a Gateway Google page. If I enter the IP address directly (obtained from the FF screen) I get:
"The Website You Are Looking For Is No Longer Active.
Please Contact Your Hosting Company"
--
Life is simply one damned thing after another. |
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rrz103
RichardZ
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Canton, MI
| reply to en102
Re: Bring it on...
I'm sure they would beg to differ since they have the most to gain by violating customer's privacy under this scheme. So why would we consider their defense of this invasion of privacy when they are obviously biased and have an agenda?
--
RichardZ @ »richardz.com |
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knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service
|  reply to knightmb
Re: Fight Back Now!
Website Screenshot |
How does it work? 
Calls up a simple iFrame, makes it small (in case it hits a site that you wouldn't want someone to see) and loads that site up. After a delay, it loads the next random site. If you have cookies enabled, you can set options like how fast it refreshes, reset the counter, pause it, how random things are, etc.
It's all client based, so it generates real HTTP traffic. The code is very simple and straight forward, should work on all browsers (tested it on Firefox, IE, Opera, Safari so far)
The different randomization modes work as:
Standard: Just a random 12 character site name, it might be real, might not.
Variable Length: Like standard except the domain will be between 5 and 15 characters, so might actually hit a real site in between sometimes.
Mix with Real Site: Basically as it says, you get random sites that don't exist and real sites that do (pop up blocker recommended just in case, it is random after all)
Crazy Random: A mixture of all three above, so you don't know what the heck it will do. Maybe a real site, maybe a bogus site, maybe garbage.
I was laughing the entire time I wrote the code for this. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | reply to rrz103
Re: Bring it on...
CEO's that are cashing in may beg to differ.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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obvoiusjoe
@charter.com
| reply to nixen
said by nixen :The point being, "joe", that you don't do it with the DNS servers. It's done elsewhere in the connectivity chain - or is that too obvious for you? Your point is off base. My point "nix" is that DNS servers store all this data anyway, and have been for decades. But people don't make such a big fuss over that for some reason. Now all of a sudden, ISPs are cashing (or caching could be a better spelling) in and you act surprised. I'll be happy to sit here and explain the OSI model and we can get deep with this if you want, but for your sake, for your children's sake, please know that nothing you do online is ever 100% anonymous or safe. |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to obvoiusjoe
said by obvoiusjoe :said by nixen :Really? Show of hands from the people that don't use their ISPs' DNS servers? Granted, DSLR is a bit of a different crowd... Wow. You made a point, only to slam you fingers in the door with the next point. Nice. LMAO. The point being, "joe", that you don't do it with the DNS servers. It's done elsewhere in the connectivity chain - or is that too obvious for you?
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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obvoiusjoe
@charter.com
| reply to nixen
said by nixen :Really? Show of hands from the people that don't use their ISPs' DNS servers? Granted, DSLR is a bit of a different crowd... Wow. You made a point, only to slam you fingers in the door with the next point. Nice. LMAO. |
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rrz103
RichardZ
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Canton, MI
| reply to en102
I think the more appropriate analogy is: you buy a house, and movement from room to room, what you eat from the fridge and when, etc., is analyzed by an outside party.
More to the point, there is no excuse for this kind of monitoring and privacy violation--even in the "information age." |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to obvoiusjoe
said by obvoiusjoe :said by SilverSurfer :said by shimonmor :Use FF and Adblock Plus. This doesn't stop the ISP from harvesting your browsing history at the server level. ALL isp's have this data anyway. It's called a DNS server. Really? Show of hands from the people that don't use their ISPs' DNS servers?
Granted, DSLR is a bit of a different crowd...
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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obvoiusjoe
@charter.com
| reply to SilverSurfer
said by SilverSurfer :said by shimonmor :Use FF and Adblock Plus. This doesn't stop the ISP from harvesting your browsing history at the server level. ALL isp's have this data anyway. It's called a DNS server.
And some of you think YOUR data is for sale, when it's just the data collected from your IP address. |
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knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service
1 edit | reply to knightmb
Fight Back Now!
Here you go:
»wanip.org/anti-nebuad/
Just bookmark that for future use. It's still in development, but for now it just opens a little iframe, loads some random garbage site every 3 second. With cookies enabled, I'm going to add options that visitors will be able to tweak such as how many to open at once, fake visit counter, tweaks to random site name, how many seconds to refresh another one, pause button, etc.
Maybe later a stats page of how much money they lost using NebuAD, etc. |
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knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to shimonmor
Re: Bring it on...
said by shimonmor :Use FF and Adblock Plus. I do and will, but fight back even more. If this hardware is going to log all your websites, then I say generate so much "fake" traffic that it becomes useless.
I'm already working on such a simple javascript right now that people can point their web browser to and it just loads up random domains over and over (like »blahabc.com, »googleblahbac.com, etc)
With so much fake data, it would make the machine useless and probably max out it's logs with enough fake data. Get enough people using it and bring it to it's knees. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to swhx7
True - there is a VERY big difference between session logging at the web site level and intercepting/snarfing/eavesdropping on all packets, and reselling 'some'  of the information.
I think that even if there was a significant amount of competition, most, if not all would sell your information. Those that wouldn't sell your information would charge a premium... and you still can't guarantee that they wouldn't do it anyways.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to en102
The Google cookie, and other tracking by advertisers online, is not comparable to the Nebuad spybox. The difference is that you can opt out of any online tracking by ad servers, etc. if you are well-informed enough to know what to do about cookies, javascript and other tricks that websites use. But when it's the ISP doing the data-mining, you can't opt out without the ISP allowing you to, because all your traffic is intercepted between you and the internet.
And of course the ISPs can put whatever they want in their "terms of service" and the vast majority of internet users don't have a choice of any other provider offering better terms. This is called (by economists) a market failure. (The telcos and cablecos talk about "letting the market handle it" when they want to avoid regulation, but they do all they can to prevent competition.)
That's why we need legislation to protect us from abuses like this. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to Anomaly95
Wether its from the ISP, DNS, or web servers (via cookie), all stats collection is for sale.
This is the information age, and it is and has always been for sale at some point.
When you purchase a house... do you not immediately get flooded with junk mail ? Your mortgage information is sold. Data miners are out there, and will pay for trending info.
Where it gets touchy is deep packet inspection, and what particular information is sold, and what comes with it. I.E. Selling your browsing history (google) vs. selling information which ties you to which online bank you use.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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