AtomicZero
join:2004-11-24
West Palm Beach, FL
| reply to Morac
Re: ugh
said by Morac  :said by yock :I can't wash or nourish myself without water or electricity. Running water and in-home electricity makes those convenient. People managed to wash and nourish themselves just fine before indoor plumbing and electricity were invented. It's only these days that people would be lost with them, because they don't know how to live without them. So based on your comments convenience begets necessity. I say in a few years people won't be able to function without the Internet even though they could go back to the old way of doing things. And those born after the Internet was invented won't know of any other way. No matter which way you wanna cut it. the PC/internet access [and most definitely High Speed Internet] is a luxury item....don't get it twisted.....and I'm sure that little hacker was just irate cuz he couldn't download his 500TB of illegal Pr0n or his YouTub videos weren't playing fast enough. |
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haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA
| reply to yock
"Then I don't believe you."
Whatever
"You do not, however, have a "right" to violate the terms of service. You entered into a contract with the service provider which you are in breach of by violating their terms. They too would be in violation of those same terms of service if they failed to deliver what they outline in that TOS. That's the problem though, they provided precisely what they said they would and to what you agreed. If you need more service, then you had better pay for it."
They will not sell what I want at any price. They will not negotiate on contract terms. I am being forced into a contract that I do not agree with, in order to even have a chance to get what I need. If they would sell me what I want and/or offer to negotiate on the terms of the contract then perhaps you might have a point. However since that is not the case then your point is invalid.
Personally I'd rather work with in the system as you seem to be suggesting, however then system makes no provision for me to do so, therefore I must violate the system. Its a precept upon which our country was built, so I feel fairly justified. |
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haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA
| reply to yock
"Your argument breaks down when we talk about necessity, which was my point to begin with. You absolutely do not need the Internet. Even if you did, committing a federal crime is not an acceptable form of protest for unfair contracts."
Worked for the Boston Tea Party! |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| reply to haplo2112
You have not been forced into any contract. You entered into it fully aware of the limitations on the service. If you require special needs, then you need to negotiate those needs with them. They can either provide for those needs or they cannot. It still doesn't justify violating the terms.
You need to find other avenues of fulfillment for those needs. |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| reply to haplo2112
said by haplo2112 :"Your argument breaks down when we talk about necessity, which was my point to begin with. You absolutely do not need the Internet. Even if you did, committing a federal crime is not an acceptable form of protest for unfair contracts." Worked for the Boston Tea Party! Your answer to all of this is to justify violating a voluntary private contract by comparing it to a revolution against compulsory and violently enforced unfair taxation?
Go back to school. |
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haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA
| reply to yock
"You have not been forced into any contract. You entered into it fully aware of the limitations on the service. If you require special needs, then you need to negotiate those needs with them. They can either provide for those needs or they cannot. It still doesn't justify violating the terms.
You need to find other avenues of fulfillment for those needs."
Yes, I have been forced into a contract, they are they only option for me to get what I need, and they will not negotiate on price, service level, and terms of service.
Therefore I do what I must to get what I need! Flog the line for all its worth 24/7 and host a personal use server. And no for the purposes of what I do I cannot co-locate, its not an option.
Just to be clear on all of this my ISP is not Comcast since we are in a Comcast thread! And I do not condone what these hackers did in any way. |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Why do you need to host your own personal server? Lease your own hosting space from one of the many reputable hosting companies. They have terms of service more in-line with your needs anyway.
What else are you doing that requires that you "flog the line 24/7?" |
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haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA
2 edits | reply to yock
It doesn't matter if you like the analogy or not, it amounts to the same thing. The Corporations have become our oppressors in this day and age. It is our right as citizens in a at least nominally free country to protest against that oppression. Further still they do so with the support and permission of government. When was the last time a major issue that came down to whats best for the citizen or what's best for the corporation, went in the citizens favor. |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| said by haplo2112 :It doesn't matter if you like the analogy or not, it amounts to the same thing. The Corporations have become our oppressors in this day and age. It is our right as citizens in a at least nominally free country to protest against that oppression. I think the analogy is distasteful and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the founding of this country. But nevermind that.
Yes, you have every right to protest, but protest must be done legally or it's hypocritical and meaningless. Cancelling your service is good protest. Encouraging others to do the same is great protest. Alerting the media to restrictive and unfair contracts is valid protest. Violating the terms of your contract is not a good protest.
Common and commercial law doesn't allow you to protest a contract of which you are in breach.
--
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
Lynch All Liars |
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haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA
1 edit | reply to yock
As I said earlier my reasons and motivations are my own. I'm not going in to it, I need to have physical access to the hardware on a basically daily basis. It is for personal use, there are no conveniently located colo facilities and the ones that are near enough to consider won't host what I need hosted anyway.
edit: stupid spell checker. |
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Hehe
@ssa.gov
| reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall :Last time I checked 2 wrongs don't make a right. But 3 do! |
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Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
 ·Comcast
 ·SONIC.NET
| reply to devnuller
said by devnuller :"I wasn't even really thinking. Plus, I'm just so mad at Comcast. I'm tired of their shitty service." So negativly impact all their customers... No kidding. I was checking for voicemails from attorneys and rental opportunities, and there was a delay in me figuring out how to get my voicemails.
Luckily:
1. I figured out how to get in using the text replacement they put up before I ran out of time budgeted for checking my voicemail.
2. No one left any messages, obviating the need to log in.
Yes, Comcast should have better security, but fact of the matter is that now my ISP will be expending resources on making things bitchier rather than improving service, since most corporate security programs these days tend to be based upon bitchifying things more.
In other words, their prank had the potential to cause real serious problems in peoples' lives. It didn't in mine, but it was extremely close to doing so. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually did for others. |
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Goliath28
@comcast.net
| reply to Placebo
Who gets to set the price? Last time I checked gas was at $3.70+ a gallon. If I get to set the price then I want to pay .01c a gallon.
You only think you get to set the prices, you don't even get to set the price for your mortgage, and I know before you say it, well then don't buy it.. But I have to have some place to live *smacktard*. It is a shell game while you are so busy looking here they raise rates over there. And before you know it you are paying $3plus for a gallon of gas and $100+ for TV and internet. But keep drinking the governments kool-aid. I guess a sucker really IS born every minute. |
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braynes
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Waterville, ME | reply to yock
Explain to me what you must do on the Internet that you cannot accomplish any other way.
Listen to you.
Bruce |
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haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA
1 edit | reply to yock
"I think the analogy is distasteful and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the founding of this country. But nevermind that."
Neverminding! I was being somewhat extremist there anyway. However I do have a very strong grounding in and understanding on US history. Its one of the reasons that the present state of things in the country annoys the crap out of me!
"Cancelling your service is good protest."
Again not an option.
"Encouraging others to do the same is great protest."
Still not an option, and those around me do not as a general rule require what I require and are happy with what they get. Those that are in my situation do not have the option since we have only one choice, if its something you have to have, you can't just toss it away, its not a valid form of protest, I argue in that case the entity you are protesting against wins if you just go away.
"Alerting the media to restrictive and unfair contracts is valid protest."
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, used it as a dish rag, they don't care!
"Violating the terms of your contract is not a good protest."
You know what I totally agree, but if its the only form of protest that can get the sleeping dragon to pay attention for 5 minutes, and its all ya got!
"Common and commercial law doesn't allow you to protest a contract of which you are in breach."
In the letter of the law probably not, but history is rife with examples where it has worked. Happens in contract law and labor negotiations all the time. Party A of the contract is getting screwed by Party B. Party A violates contract, Party B takes them to court (or similar legal entity) over it. They argue their points some one wins, admittedly not always Party A, but sometimes. |
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Placebo
Premium
join:2005-12-14
Huntley, IL
·Comcast
| reply to Goliath28
Did you even read my post? I explicitly noted that we don't have control over fuel prices and mortgage rates, utilities, etc...
The choices you do have: you can buy a fuel efficient vehicle, you can live in a less expensive house, you can get the lower-tiered internet plan, you can go without a data package on you cell phone, you can cancel your subscription to Netflix. YOU control the amount you pay because YOU determine which package you sign up for. I'm no "*smacktard*", my eloquent friend. I'm a smart consumer.
Guess what: TV and Internet are not necessities. Even if they are, you can get broadcast channels for free, and NetZero is willing to give you a dial-up account for $9.99 , so don't tell me that I'm the one drinking the Kool-Aid.
If there is a sucker on this board, it's you: you're the one that's been convinced that you MUST have a triple-play package, and that you MUST purchase a house instead of renting. Don't blame me for your turning into a corporate whore.
--
Who wants an orange whip? Orange whip? Orange whip? Three orange whips. |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| reply to braynes
said by braynes :Explain to me what you must do on the Internet that you cannot accomplish any other way. Listen to you. Bruce Care to elaborate? |
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crischen
join:2000-11-07
Anderson, IN | reply to Placebo
Why get netzero, it's actually more expensive than cable.
By the time I pay ATT $27 a month for a landline and then 9.95 for NetZero, I can get Cable internet for 33$.
--
-Kinsey
Geeky chix0r |
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braynes
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Waterville, ME
·Great Works Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to yock
said by yock :said by braynes :Explain to me what you must do on the Internet that you cannot accomplish any other way. Listen to you. Bruce Care to elaborate? no place in the world would I ever run in to one like you.
Bruce |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
| reply to taar
said by taar :I am sure they covered their tracks pretty well before doing this. No doubt they will eventually be caught but i have a feeling it will be from them boasting all over the net instead of a trace of the IP address where the attack originated. They didn't cover their tracks at all. Also this is not "hacking". Using social engineering and a "technical flaw" does not a hacker make. Also notice they never said exploit but rather "flaw" which has me believing that like many secure sites netsol has made the mistake of making it far too easy to reset a password.
All this kid did was con his way into getting the password to their management console, then redirecting the traffic to a single page. His attack had no flair, no skill, and his "message" was your typical script kiddy "HAHA LOOK WHAT I DID" drivel.
If his attack truly had anythng to do with his "shitty service" perhaps he would of actually made a statement...you know actually wrote out a coherent legitimate complaint and redirected the pages to that...perhaps then I would find this interesting.
All in all this kid is going to be seeing quite the large array of legal fees. There is no need for a corporation to send someone to jail when it's easier to stall their case in the system and force them into bankruptcy |
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