Re: Dish Network in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20570009 en Thu, 03 Dec 2009 11:03:58 EDT Thu, 03 Dec 2009 11:03:58 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20582037 KrK : That's TIVO's side of the story anyway.

Once nice thing Dish did though was they setup their DVR's to record the actual raw digital stream before decompression, processing back to image for TV. The result of this was that the recorded show was of the exact same picture and sound quality as the show appears on the TV.... while still getting the benefits of compression.--- IE no quality loss.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20582037 Tue, 03 Jun 2008 05:22:52 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20576755 Morac :
said by KrK See Profile :

This is really what DirecTV has bought--- and one reason why they have a "Tivo can't sue us" clause... They have ReplayTV's patents and crosslicensing agreement with Tivo now.
I'll mention the "won't sue" contract went into effect (in 2006) a year before DirecTV bought out ReplayTV's patents (2007). It occurred when DirecTV was going to drop the DirectTV manufactured TiVo box and go solely with it's own boxes. The agreement is that DirectTV will support the TiVo boxes until 2010 and that neither company will sue the other for patent violation. See the press release.

said by KrK See Profile :

Tivo is after Dish now.... but honestly Dish has developed it's own DVR's in house. Still with patent law it may not matter.... It's kinda a crock.... :(
There is a rather interesting history between TiVo and Dish. The story, according to TiVo, is that TiVo originally approached both Dish and DirecTV to license TiVo's DVR technology. TiVo allowed both Dish and DirecTV to examine TiVo's prototype DVR. DirecTV chose to license the technology while Dish chose not to. Shortly later Dish came out with their own DVR that basically did the same exact thing as TiVo's prototype.

TiVo's patent is very specific in that it is designed to allow a machine with very little processing power to perform DVR functionality. That's not very important these days because processing power is cheap, but back in 1999 it was a big deal. That Dish came out with a DVR very similar to TiVo's at that time right after TiVo showed them how the TiVo DVR works is why TiVo chose to sue Dish. Think of it as this century's Philo Farnsworth vs. David Sarnoff.

That said, most likely, Dish has worked around TiVo's patent at this point. That's why Dish is suing TiVo to show that their new software does not infringe. Unfortunately for Dish, it's most likely too late for that to prevent the injunction from taking effect.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20576755 Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:53:56 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20575864 AD7BK : I was quoting George Carlin and Canada disturbs me LOL]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20575864 Mon, 02 Jun 2008 01:42:30 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20575356 KrK : Ok in researching this further, there seems to be mass confusion. It appears that ReplayTV and Tivo were unveiled at CES, and ReplayTV was pretty much ready to go while Tivo needed some more work, so Tivo's team busted hump working night and day.

From what I can tell, finished replayTV's may have been shipping first to warehouse or etc but their actual debut was scheduled and Tivo may have therefore beaten them to the punch on hitting store shelves. Some say ReplayTV was first, some say Tivo was first. It matters not much....

However what I did find out was Tivo already tried to sue ReplayTV for patent infringement..... BUT due to ReplayTV's strong set of relevant DVR patents themselves apparently what happened was both companies settled with a cross-licensing agreement--- IE they agreed to not sue each other over patents and actually did like a legal technology share agreement.

This is really what DirecTV has bought--- and one reason why they have a "Tivo can't sue us" clause... They have ReplayTV's patents and crosslicensing agreement with Tivo now.

Tivo is after Dish now.... but honestly Dish has developed it's own DVR's in house. Still with patent law it may not matter.... It's kinda a crock.... :(

Tivo focused on easy of use, while ReplayTV focused on powerful features and cutting edge tech. IE Networking, Commercial Skip, etc

In fact it was Commercial skip and networking that sealed their doom. They got sued bigtime by Hollywood, and the cost of the ongoing legal suit really buried SonicBlue... We lost a good Tech company. Remember SonicBlue's routes were in S3's, IE the old Diamond Multimedia....

Long before the Ipod, there was the RIO MP3 player.... Remember that? It too was sued by the RIAA and Hollywood but it actually won the lawsuit... still cost millions to defend though, and Diamond Multimedia wasn't a huge company with deep pockets.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20575356 Sun, 01 Jun 2008 23:10:55 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20575272 Morac :
said by KrK See Profile :

Nope. ReplayTV was first.
They may have announced their product first, but TiVo was first to actually have a product on the shelves. Here's a link to the story from someone at TiVo.

»www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sh···t=389014]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20575272 Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:51:02 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20574624 KrK : ReplayTV hit the markey January 1999. Tivo's first was March 31st-ish same year. I was very interested in the "PVR". I own a ReplayTV and am familar with their legacy. Back when they had their SonicBlue site and ReplayTV site it used to be up on that site.

Checking for third party references....

From ZDNET »updates.zdnet.com/tags/replaytv.html

"Even though ReplayTV beat it to market by a few months in 1999, it was TiVo that quickly became synonymous with digital video recorder DVR..."

From Wikipedia: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReplayTV

"The first ReplayTV model launched in January 1999, two months ahead of rival TiVo."
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20574624 Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:33:43 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20574162 gtoken :
said by AD7BK See Profile :

Welcome to America the country of the double standard. After all we were founded by "A bunch of slave owners who wanted to be free" Say one thing, do something different.
Canada would be a hop and a skip for you. Why dont you just get the he77 out if you dislike this country so much?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20574162 Sun, 01 Jun 2008 18:59:20 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20572826 joako : On what date was ReplayTV released to market and do you have a source for that?
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20572826 Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:11:12 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20572701 KrK : Nope. ReplayTV was first.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20572701 Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:37:48 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20572697 KrK :
said by scooby See Profile :

Was ReplayTV first or Tivo first?
ReplayTV. They were close, in development at the same time, but ReplayTV beat Tivo to market. Not that it matters much.
Tivo appears to be trying to make an example out of Dish.
They are. So far everyone's caving in to the extortion, but Dish is resisting and saying "Go to Hell." So like many just causes, they are being put through Hell. They have a history of fighting BS, and are hoping that justice will win out in the end.... which is looking a bit slim at the moment. Dish may end up having to pay the extortion fees, which of course will be passed on to customers.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20572697 Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:36:37 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20571177 Morac :
said by joako See Profile :

Both came out around the same time. I think TiVO was first but I can only find vague references to Replay being released sometime Nov 1999.
If I recall correctly, TiVo beat Replay to market by a month.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20571177 Sat, 31 May 2008 23:42:38 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20571168 joako : Both came out around the same time. I think TiVO was first but I can only find vague references to Replay being released sometime Nov 1999.
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20571168 Sat, 31 May 2008 23:39:45 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20570925 Morac :
said by EPS See Profile :

TiVo has stated to analysts that they expect patent enforcement to be a major source of revenue in the coming years for the company, so I'd expect more suits, against more than just Dish and Echostar.
I think TiVo is looking for licensing fees (which they already have with DirectTV, Comcast and soon Cox). I doubt law suits are going to become a major source of revenue, especially when they take so long to complete (TiVo has yet to see a dime from their suit against Dish).

Currently TiVo has deals with Comcast and Cox so it's very unlikely they will sue them. Since Comcast and Cox use Motorola and SA boxes (which are getting TiVo software), I doubt TiVo would sue Motorola or SA either.

TiVo also has a "no sue" contract with DirectTV, though I think that expires in a few years. DirectTV now holds the old ReplayTV contracts (many which conflict with TiVo's) so even without the "no sue" contract, it might not be in TiVo's best interest to sue DirectTV.

I'm not sure who's left to sue at this point.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20570925 Sat, 31 May 2008 22:22:27 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20570880 scooby : Was ReplayTV first or Tivo first?

Tivo appears to be trying to make an example out of Dish. The jury awarded Tivo something like $100 million in damages for the previous software violations. If this holds up, they can force everyone else to either sign a licensing contract or face a lawsuit and let the jury decide.

Comcast probably has a licensing deal with the Comcast Tivo that is in development.

DirecTV has a licensing/support contract with Tivo and they bought ReplayTV so they are probably safe from ever being sued by Tivo. The patent battle between the two would be bloody and could invalidate some of Tivo's patents.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20570880 Sat, 31 May 2008 22:07:41 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20570103 EPS : TiVo has stated to analysts that they expect patent enforcement to be a major source of revenue in the coming years for the company, so I'd expect more suits, against more than just Dish and Echostar.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20570103 Sat, 31 May 2008 18:07:45 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20570026 AD7BK : It looks like that. Perhaps the truth will come out. And once that happens, Dish better patent it.
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The following statement is true...
The preceding statement was false!! --George Carlin]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20570026 Sat, 31 May 2008 17:49:08 EDT Re: Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20570009 EPS : This is a countersuit- TiVo has already won suits against Dish for older DVRs and is making claims that their newer versions, designed to avoid infringement, also violate their patents. Dish is looking for clarification, but TiVo initiated the proceedings.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20570009 Sat, 31 May 2008 17:44:29 EDT Dish Network http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20569998 AD7BK : Well, you see when companies are not truthful, when they have a lot of money, they will use it to hire liars (Lawyers) to make it where they gain control over the said technology (like the Playstation dual shock and a company in Washington state that invented the feedback (the rumbling feature of the controller). Welcome to America the country of the double standard. After all we were founded by "A bunch of slave owners who wanted to be free" Say one thing, do something different.

Sad. But Dish network sucks for HD. Now they are tring to sue TiVo. Who was first in the Digital Video Recording market?

I hope that some day that everytghing in the US straighten out. It was great back in the 80's now it's total chaos.
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The following statement is true...
The preceding statement was false!! --George Carlin]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20569998 Sat, 31 May 2008 17:41:14 EDT