| Illegal? Aren't DDOS attacks illegal? If they admit doing it, shouldn't there be legal action?
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 Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
 ·Comcast
1 edit | said by footballdude:Aren't DDOS attacks illegal? If they admit doing it, shouldn't there be legal action? Yes, what Media Defender did (and is still doing) was illegal, but it's amazing what you can get away when your clients (**IA) are throwing money at Congress.
Realistically criminal proceedings should be opened against Media Defender at this point. Barring that I hope Revision3 sues Media Defender into bankruptcy, but with the **IA and their bottomless pockets backing Media Defender somehow i doubt that will happen. Someone on Slashdot also suggested that even if Media Defender goes under, the parent corp that owns it can just open shop under another company name with business as usual. |
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| reply to footballdude
Revision3 has asked the FBI to investigate.
IMHO, Revision3 should sue Media Defender, if only to prove a point that this behavior must stop. |
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 ChiyoSave Me Konata-ChanPremium
join:2003-02-20
Charlotte, NC
kudos:1 | said by ISurfTooMuch:Revision3 has asked the FBI to investigate. IMHO, Revision3 should sue Media Defender, if only to prove a point that this behavior must stop. +1 |
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| reply to footballdude
said by footballdude:Aren't DDOS attacks illegal? If they admit doing it, shouldn't there be legal action? had their systems set to automatically bombarded the closed tracker with 8,000 SYN packets a second The systems weren't SET to create a DDos. That was a side affect of an attempt to reach a resource that was taken offline. Should MD been monitoring their system better? No doubt about it. But the characterization that they PLANNED a DDos is wrong.
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by fAcEtIOUs:said by footballdude:Aren't DDOS attacks illegal? If they admit doing it, shouldn't there be legal action? had their systems set to automatically bombarded the closed tracker with 8,000 SYN packets a second The systems weren't SET to create a DDos. That was a side affect of an attempt to reach a resource that was taken offline. Should MD been monitoring their system better? No doubt about it. But the characterization that they PLANNED a DDos is wrong. Trying to establish 8000 new sessions a SECOND is a DDoS, whether they meant to or not. Claiming ignorance is no excuse. Media Defender can claim whatever they want, but I'm sure this was completely intentional behavior that they KNEW would take the smaller trackers offline if the trackers found a way to block them.
Kind of like my girlfriend dropping a grenade in CoD4 after I killed her - only Media Defender's grenade was 9Gbps of bandwidth and hundreds of servers pumping out 8000 SYN requests per second. |
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 OmegaDisplaced OhioanPremium
join:2002-07-30
Cheyenne, WY | reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:said by footballdude:Aren't DDOS attacks illegal? If they admit doing it, shouldn't there be legal action? had their systems set to automatically bombarded the closed tracker with 8,000 SYN packets a second The systems weren't SET to create a DDos. That was a side affect of an attempt to reach a resource that was taken offline. Should MD been monitoring their system better? No doubt about it. But the characterization that they PLANNED a DDos is wrong. So you support media defender inserting fake files into legal torrents? |
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
Following that logic, if someone's gun was to go off accidentally and dispatch you from this earthly vail of tears, the shooter should get a pass because it was an accident???? |
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kcblackPremium
join:2000-09-11
Chicago, IL | reply to footballdude
I think they are terrorists.
Call homeland security, call the nsa, call the fbi! |
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:said by footballdude:Aren't DDOS attacks illegal? If they admit doing it, shouldn't there be legal action? had their systems set to automatically bombarded the closed tracker with 8,000 SYN packets a second The systems weren't SET to create a DDos. That was a side affect of an attempt to reach a resource that was taken offline. Should MD been monitoring their system better? No doubt about it. But the characterization that they PLANNED a DDos is wrong. Says who? You? Your source for this is what? Media Defender? Have you no shame?
8000 connection attempts PER SECOND. Let me repeat that so it might sink in: 8000 CONNECTION ATTEMPTS PER SECOND. That is 8 connection attempts per millisecond. Care to posit what kind of hardware and software resources are needed to send SYN packets at that rate? Tell you what: if a clueful cop caught you or me with software that was intended to work in that manner, he or she would, at the very minimum, make us his or her long-term hobby and our lives something of a living hell.
No, I really guess you don't have any shame, if you are gonna come around peddling that. |
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| reply to ISurfTooMuch
said by ISurfTooMuch:Revision3 has asked the FBI to investigate. IMHO, Revision3 should sue Media Defender, if only to prove a point that this behavior must stop. IIRC, in a previous article, the Revision3 CEO said they wouldn't sue because they couldn't afford the legal costs. Very unfortunate. |
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 MchartFirst There.
join:2004-01-21
Gurnee, IL | reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:said by footballdude:Aren't DDOS attacks illegal? If they admit doing it, shouldn't there be legal action? had their systems set to automatically bombarded the closed tracker with 8,000 SYN packets a second The systems weren't SET to create a DDos. That was a side affect of an attempt to reach a resource that was taken offline. Should MD been monitoring their system better? No doubt about it. But the characterization that they PLANNED a DDos is wrong. I don't think you realize the scope of what really happened. To create that large amount of traffic one would either have to be in control of a large botnet, or have a server-farm connected to a fairly large SONET link. Regardless if it was planned or not, it is a classic case of denial of service, and considering how large and aggressive it was - it likely was planned. |
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:said by footballdude:Aren't DDOS attacks illegal? If they admit doing it, shouldn't there be legal action? had their systems set to automatically bombarded the closed tracker with 8,000 SYN packets a second The systems weren't SET to create a DDos. That was a side affect of an attempt to reach a resource that was taken offline. I'm guessing hackers should start using that one as a defense. |
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| reply to Matt
said by Matt:Trying to establish 8000 new sessions a SECOND is a DDoS Minor nitpick but I don't know as if I'd call that a 'DDoS'. DDoS == distributed denial of service attack and is typically something that is launched with thousands of different hosts on hundreds of different networks, usually using owned systems (via a botnet).
What Media Defender did definitely qualifies as a DoS but I'd question whether or not the usage of the term 'DDoS' is accurate here. |
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 nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | reply to Austinloop
said by Austinloop:Following that logic, if someone's gun was to go off accidentally and dispatch you from this earthly vail of tears, the shooter should get a pass because it was an accident???? Well, it would be the difference between a murder charge and a manslaughter charge...
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| Agreed, but T.K. is apparently indicating that MD should get a pass on any repercussions because they didn't mean to do a DDOS/DOS attack, their equipment was just set wrong. Yeah Right!!!!! |
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| said by Austinloop:Agreed, but T.K. is apparently indicating that MD should get a pass on any repercussions because they didn't mean to do a DDOS/DOS attack, their equipment was just set wrong. Yeah Right!!!!! I don't speak for TK, as he is capable of speaking for himself, but I'd like to know where he said the company should get a free pass.
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 yockTFTCPremium
join:2000-11-21
Miamisburg, OH
kudos:3 | reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:said by footballdude:Aren't DDOS attacks illegal? If they admit doing it, shouldn't there be legal action? had their systems set to automatically bombarded the closed tracker with 8,000 SYN packets a second The systems weren't SET to create a DDos. That was a side affect of an attempt to reach a resource that was taken offline. Should MD been monitoring their system better? No doubt about it. But the characterization that they PLANNED a DDos is wrong. They should have to live with the side-effects of their system configuration just like anyone else. That many packets per second is nowhere close to being reasonable, and their systems architect would know it.
It's either gross negligence, or intentional tort. |
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| reply to Crookshanks
said by Crookshanks:said by Matt:Trying to establish 8000 new sessions a SECOND is a DDoS Minor nitpick but I don't know as if I'd call that a 'DDoS'. DDoS == distributed denial of service attack and is typically something that is launched with thousands of different hosts on hundreds of different networks, usually using owned systems (via a botnet). What Media Defender did definitely qualifies as a DoS but I'd question whether or not the usage of the term 'DDoS' is accurate here. "The company, with 2,000 servers and 9Gbps of dedicated bandwidth at their disposal"
Sounds like a DDOS to me. May not have been distributed amongst many different networks, but it was many different computers within a high-speed network. |
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 dnoyeBFerrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI | I think its resonable to assume it was distributed. Otherwise 2000 computers are not getting out of the same network pipe without DOSsing themselves. |
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