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GmanZR1

join:2008-06-03
Trenton, NJ

Ditch the Actiontec MI424WR router!

I run a small office with 6 users and have had nothing but headaches with the FIOS interent for the past several months, working with various techs and having the router replaced by Verizon, many soft & hard reboots, etc

I've read many posts of problems and we've faced very similar issues, with the major problem being latency in IE and not having web pages load. Digging into the router log files revelead many errors with the firewall and NAT.

Over the weekend I decided to purchase a REAL router, so I got a Linksys 4 port gigabit router RVS4000 and I am happy to say everything works PERFECTLY.

So, to all of you out there with the crappy actiontec MI424WR router, return it to Verizon and purchase your own equipment. I know we shouldn't have to deal with inferior equipment, but you get what you pay for.


ciucca

join:2004-05-24
Westfield, NJ

I am considering getting a new router also, but isn't the actiontec needed for the TV portion for some functions?

How did you integrate the 2 together?


GmanZR1

join:2008-06-03
Trenton, NJ

We don't have the Verizon TV service, still using Comcast TV at my office. They haven't been authorized to sell TV services to commercial businesses.

You are correct about the need to have the coax cable connected to the router. I disconnected the coax cable from the router at my home, and lost all of the programing info for the tv listings.

You may want to have two routers: one for the internet access, and the other actiontec for the TV.



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
reply to ciucca

said by ciucca:

I am considering getting a new router also, but isn't the actiontec needed for the TV portion for some functions?

How did you integrate the 2 together?
There are PLENTY of threads already covering this topic quite well Search on: actiontec bridge


birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:9
reply to ciucca

As Darcilicious suggested you can search the threads, but try this, it goes straight to the FAQ: Bridge Actiontec Rev D and keep VOD

If you have problems with this process, come on back for answers.


msmma

join:2007-10-06
Buffalo, NY

Have had Residential FIOS since 10/07, and I use the Actiontech router.

Absolutely zero problems....


Pzykotic

join:2002-06-27
Arlington, MA
reply to GmanZR1

It baffles me that Verizon provides the Actiontec router for residences, let ALONE business accounts - it's pretty horrible once you have more than a few active users.

I bought a Linksys WRT54GL, installed Tomato on it, and haven't looked back since.

Been too lazy to put the Actiontec into bridge mode for guide info though, I wish there was a better way - I'd rather not have the router in my network *at all*, and for it to work it can't even be behind my Linksys afaik.



VZ FiOS

@verizon.net
reply to GmanZR1

If you have your internet connection over Ethernet it is well worth it to use a better router instead of the Actiontec if you are having issues or are a heavy internet user.

If you have FiOS TV too, like I do, then you can just attach the Actiontec to your other router so that it gets an internet connection for your STBs.

Otherwise, if you are connected via Coax you can always bridge the Actiontec to your other router which has been discussed through several threads on here.

I've found that the Actiontec is very slow on dishing out IP Addresses compared to most other routers. Also, its NAT table is a big problem when having a lot of connections like torrents or even some games.



keyboards

join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA
reply to Pzykotic

said by Pzykotic:

Been too lazy to put the Actiontec into bridge mode for guide info though, I wish there was a better way - I'd rather not have the router in my network *at all*, and for it to work it can't even be behind my Linksys afaik.
You could always buy a NIM-100 on EBay. It is how VZ used to do the Ethernet to MoCA bridge BA (before ActionTec).
--
REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !!


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:31
reply to Pzykotic

said by Pzykotic:

for it to work it can't even be behind my Linksys afaik.
The Actiontec will work behind your own router. You have the folllowing options.

1) Connect a cat5 cable from a LAN port on your router to the WAN port on the Actiontec. You will want the two routers on different subnets (e.g. yours on 192.168.0.x and the Actiontec on 192.168.1.x). The Actiontec will be double-natted, but that won't matter for the STBs.

2) Connect a cat5 cable from a LAN port on your router to a LAN port on the Actiontec. Disable DHCP server in the Actiontec. The Actiontec will be functioning only as a switch and a MOCA bridge. In this configuration everything is on one subnet. This is the only configuration that will work if you use VZ's PC based Media Manager for media sharing.


VZ FiOS

@verizon.net

Is it possible to have the Actiontec connected to the main router LAN to WAN so that all 4 LAN ports on the Actiontec can be used as a switch and still have it on the same subnet?



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:31

2 edits

said by VZ FiOS :

Is it possible to have the Actiontec connected to the main router LAN to WAN so that all 4 LAN ports on the Actiontec can be used as a switch and still have it on the same subnet?
It might be possible, but would be a PITA. You would basically follow the instructions in the infamous »How-to: make ActionTec MI424-WR a network bridge thread, except you would be creating a three way bridge including the COAX WAN, COAX LAN and ethernet LAN.

This is would be similar to what yubin7 See Profile did in the »Make your actiontec a bridge with VOD working with REV D thread, except you would be creating a three way bridge including the ethernet WAN, COAX LAN and ethernet LAN.

Because you have to reconfigure the bridge whenever the Actiontec loses power, not something I would recommend, especially since you can buy a good GB switch for $30.

edit: Right idea, wrong thread (it was late).


VZ FiOS

@verizon.net

Well, I currently have a combination of #1 and #2 of what you posted.

My Actiontec is connected to my main router LAN to WAN. I have a GB switch that is also connected to the main router for additional ports. One of those ports on the switch is connected LAN to LAN with the Actiontec.

My main router operates on the 5 GHz frequency accomodating wireless a/n devices. The Actiontec then operates on the 2/4 GHz frequency letting b/g devices connect to it. Devices that connect to either router grab their address given to them by the main router and not the Actiontec, even when attached to the Actiontec. I left the Actiontec with most of its default settings (other than enhanced wireless security) so its DCHP Server is still on. Yet, for the most part, everything connects on the same subnet and works alright.

However, if the Actiontec is rebooted, wireless clients connected to it, and sometimes the STBs, always seem to get on its subnet and not the main routers; so sometimes I have to go around and re-assign their addresses. Obviously, I also cannot access the Actiontec when on the other subnet so I would like it if there is a way to get them both on the same subnet.

My main router's subnet is 192.168.0.x and the Actiontec is on its default 192.168.1.x. Would I just have to give the Actiontec an address of 192.168.0.2 and turn off DCHP? Or am I missing a step still?


ProFiOSDude
Premium
join:2005-05-27
Chesapeake, VA
reply to GmanZR1

Unless things have changed, business customers had 4 different router they could choose from. Not sure about pricing, though. Also, the reason that Verizon is supposed to connect all business customers on Ethernet is to allow them to purchase/use whatever device they want.

PFD



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:31
reply to VZ FiOS

said by VZ FiOS :

My Actiontec is connected to my main router LAN to WAN. I have a GB switch that is also connected to the main router for additional ports. One of those ports on the switch is connected LAN to LAN with the Actiontec.

My main router's subnet is 192.168.0.x and the Actiontec is on its default 192.168.1.x. Would I just have to give the Actiontec an address of 192.168.0.2 and turn off DCHP?
You have created two paths between your router and the Actiontec.

{Your Router}      { Actiontec   }  
{192.168.0.1}      { 192.168.1.1 }
{         #a}<---->{#b WAN       }
{           }      {      coax #c}<----->{STB}
{           }      {  ethernet #e}<-+
{           }                       | 
{         #d}<----------------------+
 

Since you said you were using the default settings in the Actiontec, neither router is communicating over the LAN to LAN link (#d to #e) since these are assigned different subnets. This could be done by setting up static routes in both routers.

This works (after a fashion) because the Actiontec is also connected via it's WAN port to your router. The Actiontec is assigned a WAN IP address on the 0.x subnet. The NAT function in the Actiontec is translating LAN IP addresses on the 1.x subnet to a single 0.x IP address. In other words, you are double NAT'ed.

The other problem is that you have two DHCP servers and paths to both servers. The STB's and any wireless devices connected to the Actiontec will initially send a DHCP DISCOVER request to find any DHCP servers. The DHCP server in the Actiontec will respond with a DHCP OFFER response on the 1.x subnet. Because of the MOCA bridge and your LAN-LAN connection, the DHCP DISCOVER request is also broadcast to your router which will respond with a DHCP OFFER response on the 0.x subnet. This is why you sometimes get addresses one router or the other. The client (STB) chooses which DHCP OFFER to accept.

My recommendation is still #2.

•Leave the LAN-LAN connection.
•Remove the LAN-WAN connection.
•Disable DHCP in the Actiontec.
•Assign the Actiontec a static IP address on the 0.x subnet (e.g. 192.168.0.2). This will allow you to access the Actiontec user interface.
•You can leave the wireless on in the Actiontec for the b/g devices.

The Actiontec will be functioning only as a switch and a MOCA bridge. In this configuration everything is on one subnet. The three remaining LAN ports on the Actiontec can be used.


VZ FiOS

@verizon.net

Wouldn't devices only be double NAT'ed if they were on the 1.x subnet since that would be going through both routers and not just the single 0.x?

Also, is it possible to change the WAN Ethernet port on the Actiontec to function as a LAN port instead by changing around the settings inside of the Actiontec?



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:31

said by VZ FiOS :

Wouldn't devices only be double NAT'ed if they were on the 1.x subnet since that would be going through both routers and not just the single 0.x?
Correct. However, the problem is that devices have a 50/50 chance of getting a 1.x address because of the dual DHCP servers giving out addresses on different subnets on the same LAN segment. Turn off the DHCP in the Actiontec, and all addresses will be on the 0.x subnet.

said by VZ FiOS :

Also, is it possible to change the WAN Ethernet port on the Actiontec to function as a LAN port instead by changing around the settings inside of the Actiontec?
Two posts up, I had suggested this was possible by turning the Actiontec into a bridge. The difference from yubin7 See Profile's instructions is that you would be creating an internal bridge from the ethernet WAN port instead of the coax WAN port. The down side, as other users have pointed out, the Actiontec loses the bridge settings if it loses power.


VZ FiOS

@verizon.net

With my current setup the only time devices have a 50/50 chance of getting a 1.x address is immediately after the Actiontec is rebooted. Otherwise, all devices that connect always get a 0.x address.

I believe the LAN to LAN connection is taking priority over the WAN to LAN one after the Actiontec is booted up. For instance, when a PC connected directly into the Actiontec is doing downloading, the LAN to LAN connection shows heavy usage compared to the LAN to WAN (Ports 1 & 2 on the LAN side blink repeatedly while the WAN Ethernet and Internet lights do not). This would also explain why any new devices that connect always get a 0.x address as well.

I also believe that while the Actiontec is still powering up, devices receive a 1.x address from it because the LAN to WAN connection has priority until the Actiontec is fully booted. After which, it would appear that the LAN to LAN then takes priority and gives the correct 0.x addresses.

If I were to bridge the Actiontec, would it then not register that it has an internet connection? If so, then I think my setup might be easier than bridging the Actiontec because I don't have to reconfig it after a power loss.



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:31

2 edits

said by VZ FiOS :

I believe the LAN to LAN connection is taking priority over the WAN to LAN one after the Actiontec is booted up. For instance, when a PC connected directly into the Actiontec is doing downloading, the LAN to LAN connection shows heavy usage compared to the LAN to WAN (Ports 1 & 2 on the LAN side blink repeatedly while the WAN Ethernet and Internet lights do not). This would also explain why any new devices that connect always get a 0.x address as well.
There is no "priority" involved. Which link gets used depends on the IP address assigned. If a 0.x IP address is assigned to a device, then ALL traffic from that device will flow over what you are calling the LAN-LAN link (#d-#e) in my earlier diagram.

Although I referred to a 50/50 chance of which DHCP OFFER would be accepted, it is not that simple. The client can examine multiple DHCP OFFERs, and choose which one to accept. This could mean the first to arrive, or the one offering the longest lease time, or the one with a preferred router, or any number of other criteria. For example, the Motorola STBs request DHCP option 60, which is vendor specific information. The Actiontec responds with VZ specific pre-configured information for the STB's. The STBs could chose to accept a DHCP OFFER which has option 60 data, as opposed to one that does not. AFIK, this information is not currently used by the STB's.

said by VZ FiOS :

If I were to bridge the Actiontec, would it then not register that it has an internet connection? If so, then I think my setup might be easier than bridging the Actiontec because I don't have to reconfigure it after a power loss.
At this point, I'm not clear about what you are trying to accomplish. The reason for the "How to turn the Actiontec into a network bridge" posts was for users that have coax WAN connections that did not want to convert to an ethernet WAN connection and be able to run their own router without double NAT'ing and hitting the small NAT table limitations in the Actiontec. I thought what you were trying to do was place the Actiontec behind your router to provide a MOCA bridge for the STBs. First you said you wanted to use the Actiontec WAN port as a 5th LAN port, which I believe is doable with a bridge. Now you come back and say that your current configuration does what you want.

And NO, the Actiontec would NOT register an internet address in bridge mode. Bridge mode simply passes through all packets.

spooky2

join:2007-09-20
Kissimmee, FL
reply to darcilicious

We'll have a few more threads once the new Westell Ultraline Series 3 routers start getting deployed this summer -- or so the rumor goes



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

said by spooky2:

We'll have a few more threads once the new Westell Ultraline Series 3 routers start getting deployed this summer -- or so the rumor goes
I can hardly wait

jhearn2

join:2003-01-02
Leesburg, VA

If the PCs in the house are all connected wirelessly to my Belkin router as the secondary router to the Actiontec router, will the PCs in the house be affected by the small NAT table issues with the Actiontec?



birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:9

said by jhearn2:

If the PCs in the house are all connected wirelessly to my Belkin router as the secondary router to the Actiontec router, will the PCs in the house be affected by the small NAT table issues with the Actiontec?
If the Actiontec is connected to the ONT WAN port, the small NAT table is an issue. I believe it is also an issue if the the Belkin is in the Actiontec's DMZ or if firewall is turned off. I have not tested that configuration, though.

Small NAT table is not an issue if your router is primary bridged through the Actiontec. And, it is not an issue if your Belkin is the primary router connected to the ONT WAN ethernet port.

jhearn2

join:2003-01-02
Leesburg, VA

said by birdfeedr:

said by jhearn2:

If the PCs in the house are all connected wirelessly to my Belkin router as the secondary router to the Actiontec router, will the PCs in the house be affected by the small NAT table issues with the Actiontec?
If the Actiontec is connected to the ONT WAN port, the small NAT table is an issue. I believe it is also an issue if the the Belkin is in the Actiontec's DMZ or if firewall is turned off. I have not tested that configuration, though.

Small NAT table is not an issue if your router is primary bridged through the Actiontec. And, it is not an issue if your Belkin is the primary router connected to the ONT WAN ethernet port.
Okay thanks. I have the original FIOS DLink with a NIM as the primary and my Belkin as the secondary. I thought I might gain some performance by ditching the aging DLink with the Actiontec. But the small NAT table would be an issue with P2P for me.


birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:9

said by jhearn2:

I have the original FIOS DLink with a NIM as the primary and my Belkin as the secondary. I thought I might gain some performance by ditching the aging DLink with the Actiontec. But the small NAT table would be an issue with P2P for me.
If you have the original Fios DLink, you're golden. In the sense you can pick any router you want for performance, and make it your primary. The Nim100 for the STBs won't change.

In other words, if you want to bump your performance wirelessly, pick your router, and replace the DLink with it. Connect the NIM100 to the new router the same way it's now connected to the DLink.

jhearn2

join:2003-01-02
Leesburg, VA

said by birdfeedr:

said by jhearn2:

I have the original FIOS DLink with a NIM as the primary and my Belkin as the secondary. I thought I might gain some performance by ditching the aging DLink with the Actiontec. But the small NAT table would be an issue with P2P for me.
If you have the original Fios DLink, you're golden. In the sense you can pick any router you want for performance, and make it your primary. The Nim100 for the STBs won't change.

In other words, if you want to bump your performance wirelessly, pick your router, and replace the DLink with it. Connect the NIM100 to the new router the same way it's now connected to the DLink.
Was hoping to save a few dollars but I'll bite the bullet and do as you suggested. Looks like the D-Link Extreme N router is the highest rated and the big brick and mortars are selling them for $99.99.