Re: Last mile will kill them in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20590322 en Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:05:29 EDT Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:05:29 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20599321 lvlorpheus : So are you saying two of the most profitable companies in this country in the past century never made their investment back in rural America. Or are you saying it is not worth investing in all Americans unless you can get a return on your investment in a few quarters or years.

A Brief History: Origins

»www.corp.att.com/history/history1.html

The AT&T Corp., formerly known as the American Telephone and Telegraph Corporation, is as old as the telephone itself. The company that became AT&T began in 1875, in an arrangement among inventor Alexander Graham Bell and the two men, Gardiner Hubbard and Thomas Sanders, who agreed to finance his work. Bell was trying to invent a talking telegraph -- a telephone. He succeeded, earning patents in 1876 and 1877.

This is a good read too.

»verizonpathetic.com/historylesson.html

And after all of this the poor phone companies lost money for their investment in rural America. Is that what I am to believe.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20599321 Fri, 06 Jun 2008 00:39:05 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20594924 N3OGH : MMMMMM, delicious packet loss....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20594924 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:52:48 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591496 patcat88 :
said by N3OGH See Profile :

I doubt the spectrum will exist to push high def VOD, 50 MBPS symmetrical internet and phone down a NLOS wireless solution in the next 5, let alone 10 years.
It can be done, crank up the SNR to the point where a bird will fall down dead if it flys in the path of the directional antenna on your house. When you find the dead bird in your yard, you can call the kids over b/c you have some fried chicken now. You will experiance packet loss while the bird cooks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591496 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:05:09 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591453 Dogfather : Those MDUs mean a money tree for VZ.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591453 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:58:38 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591448 BosstonesOwn : Keyword is average ;)

BTW I am agreeing with ya here. Costs are coming down , cornings flexible fiber and the newer tools are reducing costs at staggering rates.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591448 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:57:31 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591438 BosstonesOwn : cool isn't it ? all this tech is driving down costs.

Personally I love it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591438 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:56:24 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591355 patcat88 : I've noticed that Verizon is cheapening the install process. They have started using this system »www.corningcablesystems.com/web/···/flexnap

for 1 block long mini-branches (side streets) off of trunk lines rather than the innerduct system they used before. The pre-assembeled fiber also has pigtails already on it waiting for someone to clip the zip ties and plug the pig tail into a FDT, I'm not sure if the FDT will be installed when a customer orders, or later on in the build out process (this area isn't live yet).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591355 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:38:38 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591110 Dogfather : If that is the case (no reasonable alternative to last mile fiber) they'll have no choice but to sell off rural systems. Or they do U-Verse style offering or pure IPTV in those areas where last-mile doesn't have the same FTTH capacity.

There's no ROI on a $20,000 per home install or whatever sick amount of money it'll cost to do deployments in very rural areas.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591110 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:00:04 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591093 Dogfather : The average so far has been $1300 ($24B/18M). No doubt those costs are coming down, but it's because the ONTs are getting cheaper and they're using existing coax.

But those saving disappear when you are starting to deploy into rural areas and you have to string or bury hundreds or thousands of fiber-feet between every home unlike typical tract neighborhoods of MDUs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591093 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:58:11 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591089 N3OGH : I doubt the spectrum will exist to push high def VOD, 50 MBPS symmetrical internet and phone down a NLOS wireless solution in the next 5, let alone 10 years. Someone could make some incredible breakthrough in compression algorithms or come up with some snazzy new transmission mode, but there is NOTHING on God's green earth that will provide the bandwidth and upgrade ability of FTTH.

Verizon may very well be laying out upwards of $900 for a triple play install, but they will get that money back. Verizon knows it, and that's why they're talking about expanding their deployment.

With a decrease in land line revenue, Fios is a "deploy or die" gamble for Verizon. They have to move into TV to assure their revenue stream.

Besides, there's more benefit to deploying FTTH than just the revenue. Once uptake reaches a certain percentage of CO customers, you know Verizon will be looking to decommission or sell off their copper plant.

The maintenance and troubleshooting of a fiber network is much easier and cheaper than on a copper network.

A certain cadre of members here seem to constantly bash Verizon's FTTH efforts. Now, I'm not going to sit here and have a love in for Verizon. They screwed us ( the people of Pennsylvania) out of a sack of money the size of Veterans Stadium by way of tax breaks.

But, I must applaud them for having the vision to be the only incumbent provider to see that FTTH is the future, and spend the money doing it.

As the Fios creeps ever closer to my front door (only about 2 miles away now, WOO HOO) I know for sure the moment I find that hanger on my door, I'm signing up.

Even if it's just to get Comcast out of my life, I'm on board.

Verizon has done a fantastic job with both the technical and marketing aspects of Fios. They built an effective brand that people seem to have a high regard for, and I think they're going to make a lot of money.


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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20591089 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:57:53 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20590908 BosstonesOwn : Where have you been ? FiOS installs costs are down to $600 and that is just phone and internet install , triple play installs are done to $900.

The fiber train is rolling along for Verizon. The american dollar going down the shitter is going to hurt them and boost costs once they eat through the current stock of gear. But that is expected around august to september. And expected to push costs up roughly $40 per install.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20590908 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:28:19 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20590731 en102 : Right ... decreased density (i.e. rural) markets become expensive. NYC = cost effective, even if its still expensive to deal with city costs. Building out rural Vermont/New Hampshire / Main would be better to use some form of wireless technology (seeh »www.look.ca).
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Canada = Hollywood North]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20590731 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 14:51:02 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20590322 Dogfather :
said by FastiBook See Profile :

You realize that FIOS has a totally different network structure to copper based technologies, right? The "last mile" has all most the same speed & latency as the first customer on the local "loop". Also, home density increase would decrease deployment costs as they could do the same work on laying lines & reach more people.

- Andy
Huh? I'm not talking about last mile performance. Read my post, I'm talking about last mile COST. Cost is INVERSLY PROPORTIONAL to density, so the more remote locations they try and deploy to, the more money per passed home it will cost. That increase in per home deployment cost will kill them if they attempt it. For those people I hope they do, I just don't see how it's financially possible with current technology. To do it they'll need a technology solution that keeps per home deployment in the $1000 or less range.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20590322 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:43:23 EDT Re: Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20590283 FastiBook : You realize that FIOS has a totally different network structure to copper based technologies, right? The "last mile" has all most the same speed & latency as the first customer on the local "loop". Also, home density increase would decrease deployment costs as they could do the same work on laying lines & reach more people.

- Andy]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20590283 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:37:55 EDT Last mile will kill them http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20590175 Dogfather : There aren't many solutions to the last mile FTTH problem. But with time comes improved technologies. Who knows, in 5-10 years a high bandwidth NLOS wireless solution may present itself as a solution for last mile costs. $1333 per home is somewhat reasonable but will be exponentially more expensive as density decreases.

Meanwhile if they want to stop POTS customers from jumping ship knock off with the "You aren't using enough LD" fee, and $7.50 Caller ID charges and the $1.50 "How dare you not want to be in the phonebook" fee. Quit dollaring people to death and they won't cancel.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20590175 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:24:00 EDT