Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20595017 en Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:32:35 EDT Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:32:35 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20603545 dentman42 :
said by espaeth See Profile :

said by maartena See Profile :

But you should also look at the bigger picture. These days, an average American family has 2 to 3 PC's, sometimes even more.
According to Census bureau in August 2000 only 51% of US households had one or more computers, and only 41% of households had Internet access. Granted it's been 8 years, but do you think the other half of the country went out and bought not just 1, but multiple computers *AND* high speed Internet in the last 8 years?
Source: »www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/p23-207.pdf
Bought? Not necesarilly. Some did, prices have come way down since 2000. But what do you think has happened to all of the computers that have been replaced during that time? Many have been given to friends or relatives who didn't have a computer. I know plenty of people on welfare that have 3 or 4 computers (including laptops) and broadband internet. (And we'll leave the issue of whether welfare should pay for brodband for another topic). And in most cases, those 3 or 4 computers are all better than what I had in 2000 (after all, a 1 GHz machine is pretty well considered obsolete now, but was the top end in 2000).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20603545 Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:55:08 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20600434 Matt :
said by espaeth See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

I personally know 4 households that did. Mine went from 1 to 3, so yes.
Again, I'm not saying things aren't improving, but we're not to a household average of 1+ computers yet in the US. Heck, according to a study done this year about 20% of US head of households have never sent an email.

Source: »newsroom.parksassociates.com/art···_id=5067
What does 20% of households never sending an email have to do with whether the average number of households with more than 1 computer has increased?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20600434 Fri, 06 Jun 2008 09:50:21 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20600419 espaeth :
said by Matt See Profile :

I personally know 4 households that did. Mine went from 1 to 3, so yes.
Again, I'm not saying things aren't improving, but we're not to a household average of 1+ computers yet in the US. Heck, according to a study done this year about 20% of US head of households have never sent an email.

Source: »newsroom.parksassociates.com/art···_id=5067]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20600419 Fri, 06 Jun 2008 09:46:00 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20600333 Matt :
said by espaeth See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

Actually, yes. Dell, HP, IBM, Lenovo and Apple have all reported record growth and minus the past couple years, record sales.
Many of those sales were to both business and personal customers that already had a computer to begin with. You don't honestly believe we went from an average of 0.5 computers per household to 2+ computers per household in 7 years, do you?
I personally know 4 households that did. Mine went from 1 to 3, so yes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20600333 Fri, 06 Jun 2008 09:25:28 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20598715 espaeth :
said by Matt See Profile :

Actually, yes. Dell, HP, IBM, Lenovo and Apple have all reported record growth and minus the past couple years, record sales.
Many of those sales were to both business and personal customers that already had a computer to begin with. You don't honestly believe we went from an average of 0.5 computers per household to 2+ computers per household in 7 years, do you?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20598715 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:10:40 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20598702 espaeth :
said by NOCMan See Profile :

Once they drive out the competition we'll all get what they want us to have. AOL all over again.
What? When did AOL *ever* take over the Internet?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20598702 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:07:12 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20598222 openbox9 : Or continue your Netflix delivery via the USPS.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20598222 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:34:58 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20597580 nasadude :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

Yes it would. You would just have to pay more for the content is all.
EXACTLY!

let me see...download the netflix movie...wait, crap I'm close to the cap.

...may as well get it from TW on pay-per-view.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20597580 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:23:23 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20597262 Matt :
said by espaeth See Profile :

said by maartena See Profile :

But you should also look at the bigger picture. These days, an average American family has 2 to 3 PC's, sometimes even more.
According to Census bureau in August 2000 only 51% of US households had one or more computers, and only 41% of households had Internet access. Granted it's been 8 years, but do you think the other half of the country went out and bought not just 1, but multiple computers *AND* high speed Internet in the last 8 years? (In an economy that has been struggling with the costs of a war and lackluster economic growth)

Source: »www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/p23-207.pdf
Actually, yes. Dell, HP, IBM, Lenovo and Apple have all reported record growth and minus the past couple years, record sales.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20597262 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:16:27 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20597001 espaeth :
said by maartena See Profile :

But you should also look at the bigger picture. These days, an average American family has 2 to 3 PC's, sometimes even more.
According to Census bureau in August 2000 only 51% of US households had one or more computers, and only 41% of households had Internet access. Granted it's been 8 years, but do you think the other half of the country went out and bought not just 1, but multiple computers *AND* high speed Internet in the last 8 years? (In an economy that has been struggling with the costs of a war and lackluster economic growth)

Source: »www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/p23-207.pdf]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20597001 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 16:22:06 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20596689 JamesPC : In the future 20 AVERAGE houses are going to demand more bandwidth than the entire internet does today. This is a cash grab fueled by IGNORANCE. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20596689 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 15:30:55 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20596270 BF69 :
said by odog See Profile :

by a large for every appleTV user or Hulu user.... you've probably got 100+ hardcore BT users eating 100+GB per month.
MLB.TV allows you to watch basbeall games live on your comuter. If you use their highest settings( and why wouldn't I on a 15 Mbps conenction ) they stream at 1.4 Mbps. The average MLB team plays 26 games a month. If you watch all 26 games that 48 GB a month. This is LEGITIMATE use. And I'm paying $120 for this. Why should I have to pay more?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20596270 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:14:50 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20596130 djrobx :
said by odog See Profile :

by a large for every appleTV user or Hulu user.... you've probably got 100+ hardcore BT users eating 100+GB per month.
What I find ironic is that ISPs have been putting up with bandwidth-hostile P2P applications that are predominantly used for piracy for almost a decade now. When Napster first came out, I thought for sure that all those PCs maxing out their upload around the clock would surely prompt ISPs to start charging by the byte to put a stop to it. Didn't happen.

Now, that we're finally getting reasonable, legal repalcements for those activities (DRM-free music and legal online video rental), they're cracking down on bandwidth usage.
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20596130 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:48:12 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff..NO they aren't http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20596005 halfband : If the primary purpose is to limit competition for video content it will be time to split the pipe from the content providers.
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Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20596005 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:25:31 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595697 maartena :
said by odog See Profile :

by a large for every appleTV user or Hulu user.... you've probably got 100+ hardcore BT users eating 100+GB per month.
You're right on that. But you should also look at the bigger picture. These days, an average American family has 2 to 3 PC's, sometimes even more. With the way the web has been developing over the last few years with online gaming, youtubing, iTunes, and newer services such as the Netflix download service so that you can download you movies instead of waiting for them by mail.... and the fact that simple OS updates are getting bigger and bigger, not only on Windows. The amounts of data that an average family transfers, without even touching on the more shady side of internet, is ever increasing, and with the TV networks now placing full episodes online on their websites, HDTV finally breaking through, 12 Megapixel DSLR camera's (6 Mb per picture) becoming more affordable, VOIP services getting more popular, I don't see only an upwards curve in the amount of LEGAL data we transmit.

Add to that IT professionals such as myself. Last week alone I downloaded three Linux distros on DVD because I wanted to decide which would be best on my laptop. That is 12+ GB right there, and since I used torrents because they are often much faster, I also upload, so say 15 Gb of traffic. Then I downloaded Exchange Server 2007 SP1 from my MSDN subscription, a 5.5 Gb download. I also downloaded OS disks for Server 2008, another 3 Gb right there. Just in 1 week time, because I want to do some testing (I plan to bring online my first Exchange 2007 server, until now I have only done 2003's and I needed to test it first before I order the production software for my client), I have transmitted 25+ Gb of data.

And the rest of this month? Well, OpenSUSE 11 is about to be released, that's 4 Gb right there. But I think I also want the x64 edition, so make that 8 Gb. Oh, and to save everyone's bandwidth I always use torrents on Linux distros, so say 10 Gb because of uploading.

And that's just business, I haven't even started on pleasure yet.....

And did I mention I often have a Dutch TV station streaming into my office?

Time Warner Cable is wanting to cap at 40 Gb. I think that is total bull and that many, many users using 2008's internet will surpass that without a sweat and doing anything illegal.... 100 Gb would be more realistic. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595697 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:26:36 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595497 SilverSurfer :
said by NOCMan See Profile :

Once they drive out the competition we'll all get what they want us to have. AOL all over again.
+4 - Exactly. AOhell all over again and a zillion IPs on the Net with the same content of TV programming.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595497 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 11:48:48 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595186 Phil : Having to pay more is financial limitation, not a freedom in this sense. No bargain.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595186 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:47:16 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595184 NOCMan : What would be the point? Just buy it from the cable company. No need for pesky companies like Netflix.

Once they drive out the competition we'll all get what they want us to have. AOL all over again.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595184 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:46:48 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595159 TKJunkMail :
said by Phil See Profile :

Only because these technologies are just emerging and with limited scope. As I've said elsewhere, if Netflix made their entire movie library available online I would stream ALL my movies versus getting the physical DVD via snail-mail. Time Warner's caps would not allow me this freedom.
Yes it would. You would just have to pay more for the content is all.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595159 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:41:41 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595152 TKJunkMail :
said by odog See Profile :

by a large for every appleTV user or Hulu user.... you've probably got 100+ hardcore BT users eating 100+GB per month.
You aren't drinking the koolaid. Don't you know that 99% of bittorrent users are only downloading legal content like Linux distros and game patches. ;)
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595152 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:40:24 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595071 Matt :
said by odog See Profile :

by a large for every appleTV user or Hulu user.... you've probably got 100+ hardcore BT users eating 100+GB per month.
They are using those users as an excuse to head off the exodus of users to services like the DirecTV Roku, Amazon Unbox, Hulu, Vongo, etc.

They don't want to hemorrhage subscribers like the Telco's did when VoIP blew up. If they learned anything from the decimation of the POTS industry and their subsequent domination of the VoIP industry, it was to nip potential problems to their core business in the bud.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595071 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:24:53 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff..NO they aren't http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595035 danclan :
said by odog See Profile :

by a large for every appleTV user or Hulu user.... you've probably got 100+ hardcore BT users eating 100+GB per month.
no they arent going after the illegal stuff thats a straw man arguement, a ruse, a ploy, an EXCUSE

ITS ALL ABOUT THE CONTENT and what they can charge for it. Since any number you hear about torrenting traffic is pulled at random from the air these caps are all about keeping video revenue local. Its about having you use their PPV or VOIP and not Apple or netflix or any other VOIP/Video provider.

Thats it. Period. Anything else is just hot air.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595035 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:19:31 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595019 Phil : Only because these technologies are just emerging and with limited scope. As I've said elsewhere, if Netflix made their entire movie library available online I would stream ALL my movies versus getting the physical DVD via snail-mail. Time Warner's caps would not allow me this freedom.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595019 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:17:16 EDT Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595017 iansltx : Maybe at this very minute you have two or three, not 100+, BT users for every Hulu viewer, but soon the ratio will be reversed. And actually video streaming isn't nearly as hard on the network as BitTorrent. So yes it's still anticompetitive, despite your antiquated notions of what people do online.

I've used BitTorrent for some stuff, like when Hulu doesn't have all the Episodes of 24 on their site. Of course, if everything was on Hulu I'd just use my internet connection to stream that way. Oh wait, that would mean racking up a ginormous bandwidth bill :/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20595017 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:17:11 EDT they aren't going after the legal stuff http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20594998 odog : by a large for every appleTV user or Hulu user.... you've probably got 100+ hardcore BT users eating 100+GB per month.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20594998 Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:12:17 EDT