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No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC
Host:
Wireless Networking
All Things Unix
Cox HSI
Qwest
Efficient
| Should I buy an "N" router? Seems like we get this question a lot, along with frequent misconceptions about range and speed. I'd like to tap the extant brain trust for some content then sticky it for newcomers to see.
So, please post your technical rationale for or against buying 802.11N. State any assumptions - upgrade vs. buy new, for example - brand preferences (tell us why, though) and personal observations.
Thank you. | |
|  stevech0
join:2006-09-17
San Diego, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·VoicePulse
1 edit | Re: Should I buy an "N" router? in my opinion, you SHOULD buy an 11n router if you wish to fatten the profits of you local retailer and you don't have expectations for a good benefit for your $.
You should NOT buy 11n client devices that match the vendor/vintage of W-router, since it's moot that they too are 11n compatible if the w-router is lame. | |
| | 
Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
| Re: Should I buy an "N" router? The originator posted a question to which he already knew the answer, or he was giving us a big clue. NO!
The answer is NO, if you have not done any research and thus are asking, and if you have done your research then you NO the answer already (as per stevo). | |
| | |
No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC
Host:
Wireless Networking
All Things Unix
Cox HSI
Qwest
Efficient
| Re: Should I buy an "N" router? Gigabit wired ports is obviously a big plus for some. Can you expound a bit on the extended range of the wireless? I see conflicting reports and have no experience to reference.
How much of an increase did you see? What's the RF landscape like there? | |
| | |
Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS | Re: Should I buy an "N" router? The problem with N, is that approval has been given to systems that seriously degrade standard G units without appropriate safeguards. The standards to prevent this were either poorly written or not enforced. | |
| | | | 
JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Should I buy an "N" router? I run a mixed N and G environment - I have 2 G routers, and a Dlink 655, all within 10 feet of each other.
The Gs are not degraded. At the same location, 25' and 2 drywalls from the AP, a G based card got 60%, "good" signal and 12-18Mb/sec throughput. Swapping it for an N card signal is 92-96%, "Excellent" - speed is 240-300 at the link layer, and throughput is 30-40Mb/sec (as measured by iperf) across the wireless link.
Range out to the farthest unit is only 50' and one exterior wall + 2 drywall... G is poor, 20-30%, N is Good to Very Good, 70-80%, speeds are 20-25Mbit for N, and 8-10Mbit for G. (Note G was there before, tested G before and after installing N, G performance identical - still use several G units in the house talking to a Linksys G router, without issues. N is used for higher speed HD Media streaming.)
I've done the site survey, there are 4 other G networks at 10-20% signal, and one at about 50% - I put my three networks such that they don't overlap each other (much)
My results in a residential single family home (but tightly packed homes!) have been pretty positive - more throughput (not 20X, but a solid 10-20Mbit more) and about the same signal boost as moving everything halfway closer to the AP.
This is all draft 2.0 stuff, perhaps thats better then the first wave of attempts?
--
My place : »www.schettino.us | |
| | | | |
Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS | Re: Should I buy an "N" router? Good to hear! | |
| DaveCinSL1
join:2007-12-02
San Leandro, CA
·Comcast
| well unless people buy a multi in multi out wireless adapter to go along with the Pre N it's a moot point. I would recommend PreN phase 2 as this will be the approved standard around 7 2009 the first poll had over 12,000 negative responses to the standard the second had less than 25% of the responses meaning that it's not going to change again. so feel free to buy N phase 2 it's going to be the standard just remember to also buy an N adapter or multi antennea adapter I use a linksys WRT54GX4 MIMO G router when I get a round tuit I'll get a multi antennea adapter right now I have 54G thru 3 walls and they are OLD lath and plaster walls I also have a version 1 wrt54g with open sourced firmware but it's been so long since I played with it I forgot whose lol
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H/P system with a WD caviar 250G HDD added wireless networked using a "G" Linksys WRT54GX4 (srx400) router tweaked firefox mem settings and Dr TCP | |
| 
SkyBlue
join:2007-03-31
| I have found "N" Routers stink.
I have tried several and in most cases the devices either connects G rather than N.
I made it connect to the N standard and got lousy unreliable signal/throughput.
IMO "N" standard or Routers/Cards are not ready for prime time.
IMO & Experience G using Atheros chipset seems to be a hair better than Broadcom. | |
| |
JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Should I buy an "N" router? said by SkyBlue  :I have found "N" Routers stink. I have tried several and in most cases the devices either connects G rather than N. As helpful as this post was, it would *really* help if you told us which models you tried, what the environment was (mixed N/G/B, N -only, etc) and what testing you performed*. Saying "they stink" isn't very scientific, and hardly repeatable.
* for example, I have found that B & G routers stink, Powerline HD stinks, switches stink, laptops stink, desktops stink, vista stinks, etc. But without specific details, those are hardly helpful to anyone else. They're all true statements, too. Just try and prove me wrong! | |
| | |
SkyBlue
join:2007-03-31
| Re: Should I buy an "N" router? I have tried Netgear wireless N 2 models 360 = stinks
" Linksys wireless N 3 different product = Stinks
" D-Link Wireless products 2 models = Stinks
" Wireless N USB adapters D-Link/Linksys/Netgear = Stinks.
I could give you all the model #'s but if you are looking for a more comprehensive test try it yourself.
If you still want model #'s let me know & I will give you all the info.
I bough them and returned them to the store and told them they stink.
----------------------------
If you are not sure. If they are good do what I did buy and try and then post your conclusions. | |
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JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA | Re: Should I buy an "N" router? Can you define "stinks"? The dlink I reported in my post above performed exactly to specs and expected throughput/range, for example. | |
| | stevech0
join:2006-09-17
San Diego, CA | From the manufacturers' viewpoint, the 11n w-routers are great. Gets more sales going becuase the w-router market was saturated with 11g products. | |
| 
Snakeoil
Taxes are Armed robbery.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| I just brought a WRT160N router. The only reason was so my Wii had an internet connection.
The Wii found the hot spot and was easy to get to connect.
Not sure how it will be for computing, but I might try it in a few months. My network is currently a combo network and power line.
--
Omne initium est difficile | |
| kenz
join:2005-07-28
North Canton, OH
| There is no good single answer to that question. The answer depends on a number of factors, the primary one being how valuable to you is the added range and bandwidth offered with the N router.
N is obviously more expensive. A decent model will set you back $100 or more. You are considering the bleeding edge which tends to run up costs. Do you already have a G network up and running? G remains the sweet spot.
Also consider throughput you need to get your day to day work done. If you are only using the router for internet access then your ISP bandwidth and other remote servers/routers will be the limiting elements, not the wireless router you choose. For example, my ISP usually provides about 3 MB access bandwidth--far less than the throughput provided on a wireless G router. It would make little sense to go with N in this case.
On the other hand, if you have a server in your network which you access for fileshares etc. then it could be a different story. You may need the bandwidth that N provides, depending on what you are doing with the server and how many clients you are supporting on the wireless network.
I have considered upgrading to N, but see no real value to spend the additional $$ needed to do so. My G wireless subnet is working just fine for what I am using it for. It provides reliable service at reasonable throughput. The router that I use USR WRT5461 was purchased on sale for $9.99 with rebate. Really a no-brainer at the time. Most of my network remains wired. I use only 2 clients at most on my wireless subnet. The cheap G router works perfectly in my case.
So what are your circunstances? Budget restrictions? throughput requirements? range requirements? | |
| 
tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Enfield, CT
·Cox HSI
| N routers after they get out of the Pre-Draft mode will give you 600Mbps, but 4th Gen of N for business is at 869mbps. Right now for the money you better of with N, but N wit wired 10/100/1000mbps is the way to go. All N routers will still do G. I doing G until N becomes more standard and out of the draft. Going from 100mbps for wired LAN to 1000Mbps is a huge jump. Still some devices just can't do GIG Ports, so you need to have mix bag of tricks. Next mix 100mbps with 1000Mbps on the same switch. So you would need to buy two switches on for 10/100 connected to router port 4 and another one for 10/100/1000 connected to the Router port 1.
I know some here don't like DLINK, I prefer DLINK routers. DIR-655 is rock solid. But I won't buy there switches as then tend to overheat. My choice would be NETGEAR PROSAFE or the rounded white ones GS series.
LINKSYS new black disc routers have some issues, so I'll won't recommend them also seem slower than DLINK in test.
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| | Eug
join:2007-04-14
Toronto, ON
4 edits | My client adapters aren't n, and some have weak transmitters 802.11n may be useful for some people, but it's moot for me. I have 6 wireless-capable computers in the house right now, as well as an Xbox 360 and an iPhone, and none actually support n. All are g/b (or a/g/b) or b-only.
I'll probably get n hardware later, but I'd rather wait for the prices to drop and the n standard to actually be approved before I start investing in it. By that time I might even actually own an n-capable computer.  In the meantime I can purchase three or four 802.11g routers for the price of just one 802.11n router.
P.S. My current setup actually consists of four 802.11g routers, all bridged through powerline networking. (My network topology map is here. There are three routers in that map, but I also have a fourth one off the top of the picture at the end of the backyard.) One might argue that a high-end 802.11n router might be able to reach further than my 802.11g routers, but I doubt it, since part of the issue is my receiving hardware. My iPhone for example isn't likely to benefit that much from a stronger source signal since the iPhone itself can't supply a huge amount of power to WiFi. Battery life is precious. So even if n routers can go further, my existing hardware would still necessitate multiple routers. And like I said, none of my existing wireless clients are 802.11n capable anyway.
--
Everything Apple | |
|
tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Enfield, CT | Eug interesting layout there.. I doodle this from my job one day, I should get around making it into Network drawing
My Network Layout | |
| andyi
join:2008-08-14
San Jose, CA
| I would buy N because prices have come down significantly and they are at the same price level as G now (in the $35-$40).
At the same time, N is backward compatible with G devices and provides higher throughput and longer range. Moving files over wireless will be faster than G.
»www.amazon.com/s/qid=1218837679/···500-4999 | |
| Cutter59
join:2008-08-18
Alachua, FL
| I recently switched from a Linksys G router to a Belkin N-Vision router. I have 3 Windows PC's and 3 Macs. The macs have an internal card that supports N. With the new Belkin router I am clocking speeds of 103 mbps/sec. That is a significant step up from the max of 54 mbps/sec offered by G. At this point my Windows PC's have seen no slowdown. In fact they are slightly faster. An N router can make sense as long as your devices make use of N as is the case with my Macs. | |
| | Eug
join:2007-04-14
Toronto, ON
1 edit | Re: Should I buy an "N" router? said by andyi :I would buy N because prices have come down significantly and they are at the same price level as G now (in the $35-$40). I just bought a g wireless router for CAD$19.99 new on sale at a major electronics chain. TRENDnet TEW-452BRP.
said by Cutter59 :I recently switched from a Linksys G router to a Belkin N-Vision router. I have 3 Windows PC's and 3 Macs. The macs have an internal card that supports N. With the new Belkin router I am clocking speeds of 103 mbps/sec. That is a significant step up from the max of 54 mbps/sec offered by G. At this point my Windows PC's have seen no slowdown. In fact they are slightly faster. An N router can make sense as long as your devices make use of N as is the case with my Macs. You won't get 54 Mbps with standard 802.11g wireless. More like 20-something. ie. Your n network is 4X as fast as a g network.
--
Everything Apple | |
| | | 
Kais
@rr.com
| Re: Should I buy an "N" router? I have to neighboring houses that we own. One house we have the linksys wireless g router (the one with speedbooster), forget the model, and the adapters to go with it. In that house, the computers were one room apart from each other so signal strength was not an issue and it was working perfect.
I just moved into the house nextdoor. Older house with more walls and interference. Computers were on opposite sides of the house this time. Figured I'd buy the linksys router because of how good a service it was giving me in the other house. Well, I was getting NO signal to both computers at all. Had another friend try out his router he brought over (forget the name) and got the same results. Did some research and found the N routers. Purchased the belkin n1 with the adapters and now both computers have perfect signals.. $269 is a little pricey but at least I know I wont ever have problems losing my signal. | |
| jsciii
join:2002-08-19
Petersburg, VA
| Here's a real world example.
My son lives about 200 yards down the road. Since I have SpeakEasy, I have excellent DSL service which I share with him.
My set up was to use a LinkSys WRT45GL running OpenWRT with the power set to maximum and a pair of +7 Db antennas. The result, he could receive a signal in most parts of his house and he had acceptable speed both up and down using his HP laptop's built-in G adapter.
I had resisted draft N because the adapters are expensive even if the price of the routers has come down. But TigerDirect has D-Link Range Extender DWA-142 adapters for $29, so I bought several of those and a DIR-625 D-Link Range Extender router.
The LinkSys +7 Db antennas wouldn't fit on the DIR-625, so I used the stock antennas.
The result.... No Signal at all with N!
Through last night, D-Link had a $20 rebate on their ANS24-0700 antennas, so I ordered a pair. we'll see if that helps.
But for now, my recommendation for improving range is to:
1) Stay with G
2) Install OpenWRT so you can turn the power up
3) Buy good antennas when they are on sale.
Good luck,
Jamie | |
|
Scot
@as9105.com
| My existing laptop is 802.11g, although I have never actually used its wireless capabilities.
I am in the process of buying a new one that is 802.11n (and apparently 802.11g backward compatible) which I would like to use wireless.
If I buy an 802.11g modem router, am I right in thinking that I could link both laptops to it, the old one wired and the new one wireless ?
But if I buy an 802.11n modem router, would I only be able to link the new laptop to it ? | |
| |
JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Should I buy an "N" router? Most (all?) n routers can do mixed mode n/g (ie, they accept g clients) - however having both n and g clients tends to slow down the n client a bit.
This is not unlike when g came out, and could accept plain old 802.11 clients, but doing that would slow down the g clients.
Just make sure whatever you pick supports mixed g/n clients.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us | |
| | 
PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| said by Scot :
My existing laptop is 802.11g, although I have never actually used its wireless capabilities.
I am in the process of buying a new one that is 802.11n (and apparently 802.11g backward compatible) which I would like to use wireless.
If I buy an 802.11g modem router, am I right in thinking that I could link both laptops to it, the old one wired and the new one wireless ?
But if I buy an 802.11n modem router, would I only be able to link the new laptop to it ?
I've owned my current router (the same model as yours, incidentally; the WRT54GS) for three years, but the household just bought its first laptop - an older (used) Gateway Solo 600 that supports wireless-b or wired built-in. Laptops and even desktops can be adapted to connect wirelessly (USB-based wireless adapters will work with either, for example); at most, any home LAN needs (truly) but one wired-only computer (the administrator's station); the remaining clients can all be wireless otherwise.
However, I strongly suggest that all wireless clients support wireless-g at minimum, but for reasons of security, rather than speed or range. For non-gaming connectivity (even downloads from Microsoft or some other source) even b is certainly fast enough. However, wireless-b connectivity on older laptops has issues with even the moldy-oldie WEP encryption, let alone WPA. Wireless-g, however, due primarily to the inclusion of flash memory on most modern PC cards and USB adapters, is usually not prone to this problem. Also, all N routers will also support wireless-g (Linksys' own N routers will also support SpeedBoosted g), so you don't have to upgrade right away (just make sure the router itself is configured to support both g and N). | |
| | | 
jlsohio
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Mentor, OH
| Re: Should I buy an "N" router? I switched to Linksys WRT310N router. So far I like it. It installed in a few minutes, no issues.
I also purchased a wireless adapter for my laptop. I'm getting speeds of 130Mbps. The range is excellent.
My two cents.
--
I need speed... | |
| | | | 
dellsweig
Extreme Aerobatics
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY
·Time Warner VOIP
·Vonage
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Should I buy an "N" router? said by jlsohio :I switched to Linksys WRT310N router. So far I like it. It installed in a few minutes, no issues. I also purchased a wireless adapter for my laptop. I'm getting speeds of 130Mbps. The range is excellent. My two cents. Do you know if the 310 slows it's N connection to G speeds in a mixed environment?? I have both G and N clients. | |
| fp_goodwill
join:2008-12-19
| Haha just read this sticky.
In my experience, surprisingly most N routers are not performing that well- some even fall short behind those G routers (the greatest range so far I got is from Buffalo WHR-HP-G54). However speed claims seems to be a bit more real- considering if you have similar signal coverage, N seems really gives better speed (if you have an N client of course :P)
Anybody used a N router that really preforms as it claims? (something like 3x range of a G router...)
--
Need a router? Visit our store! | |
| |
JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Should I buy an "N" router? quote:
Anybody used a N router that really preforms as it claims?
You mean, anyone other then myself, and all of the various testing sites?
For example, the dir-655 marketingspeak says "delivers up to 14x faster speeds* and 6x farther range* than 802.11g"
What I see in my install is it has about 2x the range and 2.5x the speed of a linksys wrt54cg router with an external omni-directional antenna in the same location. Compared to the same g router without the external omni it delivers out of the box (thanks to its much better set of three antennas) about 4x the range (or a 4x better signal at the same range) and 5x the speed (measured via iperf)
So I'd say its performing as claimed.
What are you selling? | |
| slam5
Premium
join:2003-01-10
Vancouver, BC
| N ver G. You should consider a few factors. First, do you have any clients that support only b/g? How wireless friendly is your place(how many wireless router is around you)? n has mimo and that is a big bonus over g in radio noisy envirnoment. now the big question is how many g or b clients you got. imo, b is a standard that should be phrased out. i once had a client who has no connection upstairs when the router is set for b/g. once it was set for g only, it was more stable. i suspect if you have a mixed envirnoment, the same result may apply. Regardless, I think you should switch to a n router. it definitely is future proof for sure for $ 30 or so. | |
|
djleej
@charter.com
| I am new to this and I have a simple question, I want to know what type of router I need, my neighbor across the street is going to let me jump off his wireless signal, but when I tried his signal was not strong enough! He lives about 500Ft. away across from me. What router do we need? a g, g+, n or what? please help... Thanks!!! | |
|
tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Enfield, CT
·Cox HSI
| G and N which one? What are your needs? Can you live with 30mbps or better yet real world 130M for N. I say N is the way to go. Sure you won't get 300mbps as they tell you on the box, although the chips on the router is suppose to go that high but after you factor in all the signal crap then you're looking at 65mbps to 150mbps (300Mbps) for N. G is standard rates of that are much lower, but most users don't mine it.
I run both G and N, I use two different access points to manage both. Most DLINK wireless router with N still use mix mode G/N to give you N. Some don't like Trendnet TEW-654BRP | |
|
utdno11
@co.uk
| Okay, so 130M or so for the N router- how about if a router is on the ground floor, would it happily work through to the 3rd floor of a house? My current G router doesn't. Just says the signal is `very weak` and fails to make a usable connection of any sort.
Kris | |
| |
No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC
Host:
Wireless Networking
All Things Unix
Cox HSI
Qwest
Efficient
| Re: Should I buy an "N" router? Probably not.
The most important variable isn't G or N, it's how much radio signal is getting to the client (and back, but since you're using the "weak" signal as measured by the client as a reference point, we'll focus on that).
A typical router antenna configuration produces a signal pattern that looks something like a doughnut. You can angle the doughnut my moving the antenna, assuming it's external, and sometimes that will help.
Obstacles and the composition of them makes a big difference. Old lathe & plaster construction attenuates the signal more than modern drywall.
Interference and reflected signal can hurt range. This is where N has an advantage over G, but only if the G devices are not MIMO and both ends of the equation are N.
Throw in some variability between brands or even within a model and it makes performance predictions pretty scary. In short, 802.11N will not by itself provide a magic fix. I can help in some cases.
--
To you, I'm an atheist; to God, I'm the loyal opposition. -- Woody Allen, Stardust Memories | |
| |
tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Enfield, CT
·Cox HSI
| You need wireless access point up there to help out the main wireless router. Don't get fooled by the claims of what Wireless N can do as it really can do it. I ran some test myself and found G wireless access points overlapping on Channel 6 could cover the house more than using N. Once you had you add N to the mix using another wireless N access point then you can overlap channel 6. Each access point needs it's own wireless channel to work.
Weak areas needs wireless access point. You could use WDS (100% wireless device) connected to wired wireless access point. This WDS would be used if you don't want to run LAN cable from the main to the wireless access point to the 3rd. I've tried this works great!
Best N Router right now that works as Router or WAP is the NetGear WRN834Bv2 don't use DD-WRT with it if you plan on using it as WAP in N only mode 40Hz. DD-WRT has lousy N only results. But DD-WRT as a wired router would be ideal.
Or stick with the netgear firmware. | |
| magic108
join:2009-01-23
united state
| I have a DIR 615 from dlink, its N and I used a N card with it. It worked great, but it wasnt gigabit. It was 40 bucks so cant complain, but 3 month later i replaced it with a 4300 which is for gaming with gigabit, plus most of my stuff is G anyways. You cant go wrong with DIR 615 though for a cheap solution. Now I use a cisco aironet A/G card. Really damn good card.
This is coming form a 14 year old, with a few years of networking experience running an office network for family. | |
| | | |
tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Enfield, CT
1 edit | Great! Cisco Aironet cards are great also! Anyway I hope you continue with IT (information technology) I had started when I was 17 years old and been at it ever since.. | |
| pdp76
join:2004-06-24
| My G router is starting to get flaky, I think it's time to get a new one. Just like many others, I only have G clients, namely: 2x laptops, 1x "bridge" (buffalo ethernet client), PS3, Wii, and iPod touch.
Obviously I'm not going to get N speeds on any individual client (duh...) but what I'm wondering is if the N bandwidth will be shared across all G clients.
For example, G only gets a max of 20Mbps in practice, so if I had 2 G clients connected to the same G router running full speed, I'd theoretically get somewhere around 10Mbps to each client. I know it's not this simple, but just for discussions sake...
Now N has a max of around 80Mbps in practice... would I theoretically be able to achieve more than 10Mbps per G client if I had 2 or more G clients connected? If the answer is yes but dependent on which N router, could anyone give any suggestions on which router?
To sum up, I'm just wondering if it's worth it to get an N router from this point of view. I don't think I'll be getting any N clients anytime soon, but if an N router can improve the aggregate throughput of all my G clients, I'd be willing to consider one. Thanks! | |
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See 9 replies to this post | |
ccotton
join:2009-03-07
Alameda, CA | FYI- 802.11n is still under draft development but WiFi Certified draft products are being sold. 802.11n is still being ratified. | |
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