Should I buy an "N" router? Page 4

Author	All Replies
mozerd Light Will Pierce The Darkness Premium,MVM join:2004-04-23 Nepean, ON 2 edits	reply to No_Strings Re: Should I buy an "N" router? You should buy "N" if the "N" system you buy incorporates 3 critical technologies. Why? without these critical technologies your "N" system [be it a Router or AP or any combination of either] will not give you the performance that you may expect or want. The critical technologies are: [1] 3x3 MIMO --- 3 transmit \| receive radios and 3 antennas [3 of each minimum] [2] Spatial Multiplexing [3] Incorporating ASIC routines that exploit multipath. What makes MIMO very special is when [1] is combined with [2] and [3] if its done the right way. There are multiple forms of MIMO and each CHIP promoter has their own unique way of doing MIMO regardless of what you may have read about the standards group have set for 802.11n Spatial multiplexing allows for the transmission of multiple distinct data stream's over multiple radios in the same band at the same time, effectively doubling [or tripling or more] data throughput. Think of it as sipping water through two [or more] straws at once. Specifically, devices that exploit MIMO chipset and RF technology transmit two [2 or more] distinct datastreams simultaneously. This is what gives you the bandwidth that needed to Stream HD Video, Listen to digital music, Play online games, Transfer photos and home videos, Handle multiple VoIP phone calls for more than 1 person at the same time. Properly implemented MIMO systems divide a data stream into multiple unique streams, each of which is modulated and transmitted through a different radio-antenna chain at the same time in the same frequency channel. By taking advantage of multipath, reflections of the signals, each MIMO receive antenna-radio chain is a linear combination of the multiple transmitted data streams. The data streams are separated at the receiver using proprietary MIMO algorithms that rely on estimates of all channels between each transmitter and each receiver. Each multipath route can be treated as a separate channel creating multiple "virtual wires" over which to transmit signals. MIMO employs multiple, spatially separated antennas to take advantage of these "virtual wires" created by multipath and transfer more data. In addition to multiplying throughput, range is increased because of an antenna diversity advantage, since each receive antenna has a measurement of each transmitted data stream. IF the "N" system you purchase does not incorporate [1] [2] and [3] I would speculate that YOU will be very unhappy with the performance of the system within a short order of time. The only CHIP promoter that I know off that does "N" the correct way -- where you will derive a great deal of satisfaction is Airgo now owned by Qualcomm. Is Airgo the uncrowned king of 802.11n MIMO? -- David Mozer IT-Expert on Call Information Technology for Home and Business
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-06-05 09:24:08 ·
tipstir join:2004-11-14 Enfield, CT	reply to No_Strings Doesn't have to do 3T3R you can some now like the Belkin N+ Ralink RT2880F uses 2T3R MIMO method.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-06-06 21:45:47 ·
leona949 @pacbell.net	reply to No_Strings You guys are too technical for me to understand everything that was posted here. From what I read, it sounds like N doubles G in term of speed if your system uses N? I currently have a Netgear WGRg14v6 which I bought in November 2006. I just bought an HP HDX18 Q9000 which has an Intel WiFi Link 5100 AGN. Would I see a difference if I buy an "N" router? How much of a difference? I do lots of files transfer and downloads, would "N" help? "G" is working for me now, but if I can get better speed, then I don't mind spending an additional $50. For the non-tech and newbies, like myself, please reply in simple terms. thank you all for taking the time to reply/post.
	to forum · permalink · 2009-06-08 03:21:03 ·
mozerd Light Will Pierce The Darkness Premium,MVM join:2004-04-23 Nepean, ON 1 edit	said by leona949 : I just bought an HP HDX18 Q9000 which has an Intel WiFi Link 5100 AGN. Would I see a difference if I buy an "N" router? How much of a difference? I do lots of files transfer and downloads, would "N" help? IMO, the Intel WiFi Link 5100 AGN technology will not provide you with long term satisfaction -- so if your objective is [a]performance via greater bandwidth and speed [b] greater range and [c] superior interference handling THEN you need to match technologies being used at the Router and at your HP HDX18 Q9000. If you want to take advantage of "N" today then look at the Belkin N+ and the matching N Wireless Notebook Card [using 2 x 3 radios/antennas etc.] or the N1 Vision and the matching N1 Wireless Notebook Card [using 3 x 3 radios/antennas etc] The KEY phrase is matching. The 2 WiFi Routers and matching Network interfaces I mention above us MIMO technology from a CHIP makes called Ralink. The Ralink MIMO system being used by Belkin in the products I mentioned is decent [not great like Airgo now Qualcomm tech] . The N1 Vision and its matching N1 Wireless Notebook card work better in larger homes because the N1 Vision and its matching N1 Wireless Notebook Card use 3 x 3 radios/antennas etc. IF you do NOT match the technologies being used your level of satisfaction with the products will be far less. -- David Mozer IT-Expert on Call Information Technology for Home and Business
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-06-08 07:19:34 ·
tipstir join:2004-11-14 Enfield, CT ·Cox HSI	said by mozerd : said by leona949 : I just bought an HP HDX18 Q9000 which has an Intel WiFi Link 5100 AGN. Would I see a difference if I buy an "N" router? How much of a difference? I do lots of files transfer and downloads, would "N" help? IMO, the Intel WiFi Link 5100 AGN technology will not provide you with long term satisfaction -- so if your objective is [a]performance via greater bandwidth and speed [b] greater range and [c] superior interference handling THEN you need to match technologies being used at the Router and at your HP HDX18 Q9000. If you want to take advantage of "N" today then look at the Belkin N+ and the matching N Wireless Notebook Card [using 2 x 3 radios/antennas etc.] or the N1 Vision and the matching N1 Wireless Notebook Card [using 3 x 3 radios/antennas etc] The KEY phrase is matching. The 2 WiFi Routers and matching Network interfaces I mention above us MIMO technology from a CHIP makes called Ralink. The Ralink MIMO system being used by Belkin in the products I mentioned is decent [not great like Airgo now Qualcomm tech] . The N1 Vision and its matching N1 Wireless Notebook card work better in larger homes because the N1 Vision and its matching N1 Wireless Notebook Card use 3 x 3 radios/antennas etc. IF you do NOT match the technologies being used your level of satisfaction with the products will be far less. Atheros N 2T2R and 3T3R MIMO chips are not as stable I have those devices also prior to the Ralink for N. Marvel N 3T3R MIMO no good. Broadcom N 3T3R MIMO still not convinced, I have that too. I have no issues using Ralink N with Realtek 8190 2T2R adapters. Everything has to work together and don't believe you need to buy matching adapters for G or N. I've use Buffalo G/N routers/ap with Belkin and Buffalo adapters they work. I use Buffalo/Belkin/Trendnet adapters with Belkin N+ and works great! None of these adapters have Atheros! Once you introduce Atheros Router/AP issues happen. Still Intel wi-fi works with Belkin N + without issues. I've tested pretty much everything. Again I am not impress with Atheros.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-06-08 16:13:43 ·
leona949 @northropgrumman.com	reply to mozerd David, you are rediculous. I read your post three times trying to understand your tech talk. Here's my translation, please correct me if I'm wrong in SIMPLE English please. The Intell WiFi Link 5100 AGN is not compatiable with an "N" router because it's not an "N" Wireless Notebook Card? If I want to use the technology from an "N" router then I need to replace the Intel WiFi Link 5100 AGN with a matching "N" Wireless Notebook card to go with the Belkin N+? If I walk into Fry's or Best Buy, what would I ask to buy? Belkin N+ and "N" Wireless Notebook Card? They would understand what I'm talking about? because I sure don't understand what I just wrote. Is this going to cost me $300+? For the extra cost would I see a difference compare with what I currently have? What I have now is a "G" router with an Intell WiFi Link 5100 AGN wireless card in my HP HDX Q9000. Thank you.
	to forum · permalink · 2009-06-10 13:34:36 ·
mozerd Light Will Pierce The Darkness Premium,MVM join:2004-04-23 Nepean, ON 1 edit	said by leona949 : The Intell WiFi Link 5100 AGN is not compatiable with an "N" router because it's not an "N" Wireless Notebook Card? The Intell WiFi Link 5100 AGN is supposed to be compatible with the "N" draft standard so it should work with "N" Routers but from my experience with this specific intel implementation it does not work well. said by leona949 : If I want to use the technology from an "N" router then I need to replace the Intel WiFi Link 5100 AGN with a matching "N" Wireless Notebook card to go with the Belkin N+? Under Windows, in Device Manager you would disable the Intel WiFi Link 5100AGN. Now you need to make a decision based on whether you have a small home or a larger home. said by leona949 : If I walk into Fry's or Best Buy, what would I ask to buy? If you have a small home [under 1,500 square feet] then you would buy the Belkin N+ and the Belkin "N" Wireless Notebook Card. If you have a large home [2,000 or more square feet] then you would buy the Belkin N1 vision and the Belkin "N1" Wireless Notebook Card said by leona949 : Is this going to cost me $300+? The N+ and N Notebook Card should cost you $200 or less. The N1 Vision and N1 Notebook Card should cost you $300 or less. said by leona949 : For the extra cost would I see a difference compare with what I currently have? Yes, if properly configured then you should see a significant difference. -- David Mozer IT-Expert on Call Information Technology for Home and Business
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-06-10 15:31:57 ·
tipstir join:2004-11-14 Enfield, CT ·Cox HSI	N1 is really old hardware and that router isn't even a Gig Wireless Router nor that it had USB Storage Feature. I had looked at the internals but that's Intel IXP420 NPU still couple with Atheros 3T3R. How you think that would do more in 2,000 sq house it beyond me. Atheros WPU have been lousy.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-06-11 11:49:09 ·
mozerd Light Will Pierce The Darkness Premium,MVM join:2004-04-23 Nepean, ON 2 edits	said by tipstir : N1 is really old hardware and that router isn't even a Gig Wireless Router nor that it had USB Storage Feature. I had looked at the internals but that's Intel IXP420 NPU still couple with Atheros 3T3R. How you think that would do more in 2,000 sq house it beyond me. Atheros WPU have been lousy. I have a small number of N1 Vision systems out there in 3k+ SQ FT size homes doing very well. FYI, each of the N1 Vision version 2000 I have installed certainly do have 1GB WAN Port and 4 1GB LAN ports. USB storage feature is pure CRAP. Next time check your facts before you expose your etc. NI Vision Specs After landing on the page linked above click the Specs Tab and you will see Ports WAN-- 1 Gigabit Port LAN-- 4 Gigabit Ports -- David Mozer IT-Expert on Call Information Technology for Home and Business
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-06-11 15:20:23 ·
tipstir join:2004-11-14 Enfield, CT ·Cox HSI 4 edits	said by mozerd : said by tipstir : N1 is really old hardware and that router isn't even a Gig Wireless Router nor that it had USB Storage Feature. I had looked at the internals but that's Intel IXP420 NPU still couple with Atheros 3T3R. How you think that would do more in 2,000 sq house it beyond me. Atheros WPU have been lousy. I have a small number of N1 Vision systems out there in 3k+ SQ FT size homes doing very well. FYI, each of the N1 Vision version 2000 I have installed certainly do have 1GB WAN Port and 4 1GB LAN ports. USB storage feature is pure CRAP. Next time check your facts before you expose your etc. NI Vision Specs After landing on the page linked above click the Specs Tab and you will see Ports WAN-- 1 Gigabit Port LAN-- 4 Gigabit Ports Belkin N+ NPU RT2880F 266MHz WPU RT2820 2T3R RAM 2x16 = 32MB FLASH 8MB Gig Switch (does support jumbo frames) Realtek RTL8366SR 832Kbits SRAM Packet Buffer USB Storage NEC I have check my facts there .. N1 this one you have? N1 N1 Vision NPU Atheros AR7141 400MHz RAM 16 MB FLASH 8 MB WPU Atheros 2T3R design GIG Ports Vitesse 7385 (112KB Packet Buffer) When you had said N1 this is the one.. Outdated 10/100 with Intel NPU.. Anyway Belkin N+ USB storage isn't crap so you should get your facts on point there. I have that and no issues with accessing the storage as network attached storage thus on USB. Just \\ip of the router and that's it or in my case I use Suncross Network Drive Manager.. main screen configure screen option screen more about this one here »www.suncross.nl/ndm/ Good way to monitor map drives on the network also lets you know when a system map drive is disconnected visually and tries to auto connect to the drive. Not free but you can try it out. Good more for wireless laptops though desktops. I use it on both anyway.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-06-12 19:18:27 ·
fonzbear2000 Premium join:2005-08-09 Saint Paul, MN	reply to No_Strings Based on my experience of upgrading from G to N: »Are there any HIGHLY rated wireless N routers for under $50? YES! It is VERY MUCH worth it to upgrade! -- »Check this out!
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-04 16:57:33 ·
nwrickert sand groper Premium,MVM join:2004-09-04 Geneva, IL ·AT&T U-Verse ·AT&T Midwest	For me, there is no benefit. Most of the traffic is to the internet, with little between LAN machines. And the bottleneck for internet traffic is the ISP, not the local wireless. There might be reasons to buy a router - actually, I did recently buy one. But going "N" is not a reason, at least not for me. -- AT&T dsl; Speedstream 5100b modem; openSuSE 11.0; firefox 3.0.11
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-04 18:02:35 ·
tipstir join:2004-11-14 Enfield, CT ·Cox HSI	said by nwrickert : For me, there is no benefit. Most of the traffic is to the internet, with little between LAN machines. And the bottleneck for internet traffic is the ISP, not the local wireless. There might be reasons to buy a router - actually, I did recently buy one. But going "N" is not a reason, at least not for me. If going with N get a Gig Router do not go with 10/100...
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-05 23:17:12 ·
Millenniumle join:2007-11-11 Fredonia, NY	reply to No_Strings Looking for more range, N was worthless for me. My G equipment I was looking to replace had better reception than the Linksys N equipment. And I bought the latest and greatest, fancy Dual Band - Range Plus versions. Both adaptor and router. And what was their competition, you might ask? A Road Runner provided Ambit wireless G, cable modem, combo unit.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-09 09:38:28 ·
slpip join:2007-02-20 Springfield, VA	reply to No_Strings I suggest to buy a Trendnet TEW-633 N router. It has the best performance and stability under $80.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-07-09 13:40:48 ·
payBack join:2009-08-02	reply to No_Strings I suggest to buy a Trendnet TEW-633 N router. It has the best performance and stability under $80. As I understand, the TEW-633GR is just a DLink DIR-655 clone: »www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/···/96/1/6/
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-08-06 00:20:32 ·
Mrtchuck join:2001-03-28 Altamonte Springs, FL	reply to payBack Re: Should I buy an "N" router? Clone may or may not be true as there is a TEW-633GR v 1.1. Also I have both units and as the performance may be similar, the stability is not even close and to me diminishes the minor performance advantage of the DIR-655. I also appreciate the bridge mode (which Dlink dropped) along with my router rarely has to be rebooted. (Only when modem is unresponsive) Of the two units I would suggest the TEW-633GR also.
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-08-10 21:11:41 ·
PGHammer join:2003-06-09 Accokeek, MD clubs: ·Comcast	reply to nwrickert Re: Should I buy an "N" router? If you do local streaming (printing, video, or have NAS), you'd change your tune quickly. Heck, even simple file-sharing (depending on the file size and type) is a good reason for N. However, if you are going to deploy N (even draft-N), tther are several things that SHOULD (even MUST) be done. 1. Wireless devices - upgrade as many to N as possible (preferably all). A network is typically only as fast as the slowest connection, and the slowest connections on any N network will be wireless. However, that connection should be no worse than single-band N, not G, and certainly not B! 2. Wired connections - upgrade as many to gigabit as possible; if not possible, upgrade them to wireless-N. The reasoning is the same as above (the network is only as fast as the slowest connection). 3. Any wireless-N router should be, at minimum, dual-band simultaneous (MIMO-N) and have gigabit WAN and LAN ports. USB-based NAS at the router is needed if you have two or fewer wired gigabit devices connected to it; however, it usually isn't if you have three or four. (Any PC will have more USB ports available, even without external hubs, than USB at the router. At-the-PC connections also allows the option of external SATA (eSATA) which is far faster than USB for NAS.) 4. Last, and far from least; remember the raison d'etre for N. Wireless-N (compared to wireless-G or any other LAN standard) is all about connection speed within the LAN. Wireless-N (in fact, no LAN standard) can't do anything about external bottlenecks (so not even wired gigabit can ameliorate a server-side bandwidth crunch). Recommended residential N router - Linksys by Cisco WRT610N. Why this router - First off, it meets alll the requirements I laid down (all wired ports are gigabit, supports MIMO-N); second, it's easy to set up (as are most Linksys routers; I've set up the little-brother WRT160N, which has for some reason given a lot of reviewers pain, and I found it easier than setting up my personal WRT54GS, which I've had for four years); lastly, it's relatively inexpensive (even at full retail, it's almost never $200).
	to forum · permalink · · 2009-08-22 14:54:23 ·


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