piggy2
@verizon.net | reply to Iceberg32
Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!!
"the ISP would not know the exact content of any transmission."
Sorry for the typo |
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oldnslow2
join:2005-11-24
Waldwick, NJ
| reply to Iceberg32
I don't like this either, but complaining will likely have little impact. The best revenge if for all to sign up for a commercial service. The off network traffic will cost Verizon.
Here is a site which offers suggestions and prices. One offers a 20% discount for Verizon, Sprint, and TWC subscribers who just lost services (Newsgroupdirect). There may be others.
»www.ngprovider.com/ |
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Bobcat
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Iceberg32
I asked Verizon about this over a week ago. Today, I got the following LIES from them:
said by Verizon :
We believe that limiting our Newsgroup service to the Big 8 groups will dramatically cut down on the availability of child pornography, which we believe is an important step in the overall fight against the exploitation of children online. We remain committed to combating child pornography and where we discover it on any Verizon server, we will immediately take action consistent with our terms of service to remove the content and report the matter to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
Verizon's decision to limit its Newsgroup service to the Big 8 hierarchies does not prevent you or any other customer from accessing alt newsgroups through other Newsgroup services, including commercial Newsgroups as well as web-based services like Google Groups which are available at no charge.
How will it "dramatically cut down on the availability of child pornography" when it "does not prevent you or any other customer from accessing alt newsgroups through other Newsgroup services"? The answer is: It doesn't.
Any they don't even address the other (non-alt) newsgroups, like nyc.transit or nj.general.
Verizon doesn't even have the guts to admit they did it to reduce costs. Fucking liars.
--
02NH NORMAL HALT |
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Ryno
The Wanderer
Premium
join:2001-04-07
Danielsville, PA | reply to Iceberg32
now they get to pay more for backbone as many people will be going out of network. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Bobcat
said by Bobcat  :How will it "dramatically cut down on the availability of child pornography" when it "does not prevent you or any other customer from accessing alt newsgroups through other Newsgroup services"? The answer is: It doesn't. Actually, it will, at least as far as content that's coming from them. It can be argued that, even though they aren't placing the content there, they are responsible for it since it's on their servers. Combine that with the complaints from the AG being that Verizon did little to nothing when they were notified the material existed, dropping down to 8 makes it a hell of a lot easier to monitor what's actually there. They just don't want the hassle. I don't doubt they were seeing dollar signs about the reduced costs from managing them, but saw bigger dollar signs from the savings in fines, legal fees, and threat of lawsuits that the AG of NY opened them to. Anyone thinking this is about saving bandwith needs to reconsider, since people will just go elsewhere, the bandwidth is just going to be moved off network. |
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Bobcat
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ | I disagree. It has nothing to do with child porn and everything to do with the expense of managing the news servers. I just want Verizon to stop LYING about it. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| Well, that's not really all that much of a disagreement. I don't think it's the current cost that concerns them, but what the cost would be for them to manage (monitor) the service would become given the slap on the pee-pee they just got. It's just not worth the increasedcost and hassle for them to do it, so they just dropped it to 8. They probably came to the conclusion that to keep costs the same, that's what they could handle. Otherwise, why not just drop them totally? The backlash is still the same. |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to niblifar
said by niblifar :Am I to believe that child porn and some ignorant, political schmuck are the reasons for dropping them? »corp.sonic.net/ceo/2008/06/20/th···nternet/
According to the above, Sprint, Time-Warner Cable (Road Runner) and Verizon ran afoul of a sting operation. The resulting decision to trim newsgroups (or drop Usenet altogether, as Road Runner is doing) is a result of a settlement between the NYAG.
But this disease seems to be spreading; the state AG/Governor request for ISPs to curtail Usenet access, not the running afoul of existing laws.
It sounds like Verizon could have chosen to just curtail access to the offending groups, though.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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MisterBill
Verizon FiOS
join:2002-06-05
Yorktown Heights, NY
| reply to Iceberg32
Dropping Verizon DSL
I have been a Verizon DSL customer for several years and stuck with them even though I have slow 1.5mbps DSL service (no FiOS for a few years due to underground wiring and I am too far from the central office for faster DSL. Yet I stuck with Verizon because the service was pretty good and they had decent newsgroup coverage.
At 2am on Tuesday, all of the alt. newsgroups were removed from the Verizon servers. At 3pm yesterday, my Verizon phone and DSL went out because a careless Verizon tech who was doing some work in the box that services my house damaged my wire. At 5:20pm yesterday I stopped by my local Cablevision office and picked up a cable modem. They have all of the newsgroups and as the CV ad says, it really is 5 times faster than my DSL service.
My DSL and phone service wee repaired this morning so I now have both DSL and Optimum Online but I suspect that I will be dropping my DSL connection before long. |
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MisterBill
Verizon FiOS
join:2002-06-05
Yorktown Heights, NY
| reply to NormanS
Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!!
said by NormanS :said by niblifar :But this disease seems to be spreading; the state AG/Governor request for ISPs to curtail Usenet access, not the running afoul of existing laws. It sounds like Verizon could have chosen to just curtail access to the offending groups, though. The really scary thing about this is that the AG claimed that he was doing something good, when anyone who had a clue knew that is was really bogus since stuff can be posted anywhere (I am waiting for misc.consumers to be spammed and taken down). And then the ISP's turn around and use it as an excuse to cripple their newsgroup service, which was WAY beyond what was needed as a response. It's like they were waiting for an excuse to do this, and Cuomo gave it to them. |
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Bobcat
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ | reply to MisterBill
Re: Dropping Verizon DSL
Yeah, but you'll find that OOL's newsgroups are outsourced, and speed-limited to 1 Mbps. And for the extra money you pay for OOL, you can buy access to a premium news server and have money left over. That's why I'm sticking with Verizon. |
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MisterBill
Verizon FiOS
join:2002-06-05
Yorktown Heights, NY
| My entire DSL connection was limited to 1.5 Mbps because of distance from the c/o. It's not clear I was doing the 1 Mbps from their news server. And now that I'd have to go off-network to get to an outside news server, what are the odds I'll get anything close to that?
Also, I'm paying $29.95 a month for OOL for 6 months. That's less than I was paying for DSL. After 6 months (or maybe during) I may decide to go for Optimum Voice and I can save even more. |
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Bobcat
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | My combined POTS and DSL bill is $51. That's much cheaper than OOL+OV.
DSL plus a premium news server is less than OOL. The premium news server maxes-out my connection at 2.7 Mbps.
No matter which way I look at it, Verizon is cheaper than Cablevision. And my DSL is far more reliable than my OOL service ever was.
Now your experience may be different. I encourage you to do whatever's best for you.
--
02NH NORMAL HALT |
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groupie
@verizon.net
| reply to Iceberg32
Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!!
I remember that Verizon already deleted a number of questionable news groups years ago to get rid of the child porn. I think there was a lot from spammers lately in many binary groups, wish they could have just filtered them. Maybe they just saw this as an opportunity to get out before "other" reasons just became too contentious. Free movies, software, songs and porn. Copyrights? |
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Bobcat
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | reply to Bobcat
My response to the idiots at Verizon:
said by me :
You didn't answer my question!! Why did Verizon drop nyc.transit, nj.general, and alt.cellular.verizon? There was absolutely no child porn on those (and tens of thousands of other) groups.
Why doesn't Verizon admit that the REAL reason for dropping those groups is to reduce the expenses of running the news servers? Why does Verizon continue to LIE?
Verizon's management should be ASHAMED for the way they have acted regarding this issue, i.e., continuing to LIE to their customers.
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Bobcat
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | Ha, ha, they don't want any complaints:
said by Verizon :
Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:
Recipient address: customersupport@verizon.com
Reason: Server rejected MAIL FROM address.
Diagnostic code: smtp;550 5.7.1 Access denied
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA | reply to MisterBill
I am already used to crippled NNTP service. No AG threats, just AT&T being SBC. |
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gsorel
join:2008-04-24
1 edit | reply to oldnslow2
»wwww.ngprovider.com has added ngroups.net special offers to verizon
The offers are visible from their start page. But it is only visible if you access it from Verizons network. The price is $29.99 per quarter |
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yellaboutit
@verizon.net
| reply to Iceberg32
Some of you guys will quietly accept this value reduction from Verizon but I'm of the opinion that a mass phone and email campaign will make Verizon rethink this move. At the very least, it will give them fodder to present any state official trying to pressure them to censure. Call (800)567-6789 and have the rep record this objection:
"The recent reduction in newsgroup availability warrants a money rebate/reduction for the decrease in service. There should also be an automatic release from any term obligation that I have with Verizon because the service has substantially changed since my contract/enrollment. Limiting the availability of public newsgroups is more than just a serious reduction in value of your service, it also inhibits the avenues we have as Americans for free speech and expression which is an important part of our personal freedom under constitutional right."
I encourage everyone reading this thread to copy and paste this post into any other forum thread dealing with this subject. I thank all the OP's who have taken the time to make this issue publicly known and suggest the moderators sticky this thread. I believe it is the most significant things to happen in broadband since its inception. |
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dbl2010
join:2007-10-02
Monroeville, PA
| reply to Iceberg32
It seems DSL Extreme (»https://www.dslextreme.com) offers DSL service on Verizon areas. And they also have newsserver service outsourced from supernews. I couldn't find much information but from the dslreports faq, (»DSL Extreme FAQ »Does DSL Extreme offer newsgroup access? ) it is a 2 connections limits capped 256kpbs per connection. So you can get 512 kpbs max. And it seems there is no download limit. If speed is not a big deal for you, it may be worth to try.
I am trying to find a way to terminate my Verizon without paying early termination fee. I am on this 2 year agreement, unfortunately. |
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