Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! in Verizon Online DSL http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20641758 en Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:46:42 EDT Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:46:42 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20773852 NormanS :
said by Carnivore See Profile :

Now today we see AOL and AT&T have jumped on the bandwagon. I don't know how much service they've dropped but this is just the tip of the censorship iceberg from Cuomo as he tramples his way to power.
AOL dropped Usenet long before Cuomo started blowing smoke. I am not sure what control Cuomo has over AT&T; they do not provide ILEC service within the State of New York. In any case, the old SBCIS (now ATTIS) NNTP servers were never good at binaries.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20773852 Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:39:59 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20771522 Carnivore : Cuomo is trying to build his image so he can run for Governor of NY again. What safer way to do it than by going after "child porn", a cause no one would dare to criticize no matter what unintended consequences go with it.

Now today we see AOL and AT&T have jumped on the bandwagon. I don't know how much service they've dropped but this is just the tip of the censorship iceberg from Cuomo as he tramples his way to power.

Of course he's probably sitting at home jackin' it to child porn himself, just like Spitzer was doin' it with hookers the whole time he ran as the anti-prostitution hero. NY has a great history of corrupt AG's -- let's not forget Cuomo only got elected after his opponent, Jeanine Pirro, got caught for illegal wiretapping and tax fraud among other things.

There really needs to be some organized opposition to this by the net freedom groups.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20771522 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:07:54 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20754824 anon : I guess what irks me is the attitude of the company in bending to Coumo's thuggery.

One could site hundreds of methods and systems within the net that could or demonstrably do promulgate disgusting or illegal activities such as child pornography. If NNTP (newsgroups) today, what about the entire rest of the net?

Has Coumo or the weak babies at Verizon's legal department come up with some kind of data on the percentage of nntp traffic that is illegal child porn? I would bet dollars to donuts is is in fact no more than web, irc or other traffic.

Years ago (decades) when I studied journalism, one of the main methods of surreptitious censorship is was called "the chilling effect." No actual charges had to be made, but just broad accusations and the owners and editors of publications would shut down potential offense or potentially offensive material or writers without any specific illegality.

Coumo is working in the style of the prohibition era views. An abuse by a few means he can raise the populist flag and shut down the freedoms of the many, including the 99.99% of usenet users who are not collecting, disseminating, viewing or in the slightest bit interested in child pornography.

today I called and canceled my verizon account. The loss was not just the $32 net access but with my $70 in phone plan and use as well, a net of $102/month (before taxes). I use the usenet about 5 times per year, and even though I do it through google, I just don't like the fact that they decided to ABET Coumo's grandstanding. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20754824 Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:39:31 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20741682 anon : there are a few things that need to be clarified,
1. removing a group will NEVER stop child porn, as they will just move to a new group, making things MUCH worse, now THAT group has unwanted material in it..
2. a group with a name that MIGHT suggest child porn has either SPAM or ADULT porn..
3. a charge of fraud or deceptive business practices would never stick, as the people that pay for internet access are NOT getting ripped off because verizon was not enforcing their TOS as good as the NYAG would like..the TOS, when enforced, does NOT give anyone an added service, you can't pay for an enhanced TOS, so you're not losing anything.. you're NOT being charged for it!!!...
4. USENET has been this way for MANY years, no MAGIC will fix it, also, uploaders of child porn NEVER use their ISP's server to post, so an ISP's server has NOTHING to do with it..
5.you can read all about this on google, select groups.. google will search newsgroups about the topics of the problem..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20741682 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 13:23:48 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20714161 NormanS :
said by verizonsucks1000 :

Isn't this a breach of contract?
Unless your contract specifically mentioned newsgroups, it isn't a breach.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20714161 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:09:01 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20712396 Jodokast96 : To answer your second question first, I don't know but it really doesn't matter in this case anyway. This was an agreement made between Verizon and the AG, not a law. And the agreement was only to block the kiddie porn; how Verizon actually blocked it was up to them. Why make the agreement in the first place? Because they weren't being anywhere near diligent in handling complaints of porn on their networks. block access to Internet bulletin boards and Web sites nationwide that disseminate child pornography. It was either agree to block it or be charged with fraud and deceptive business practices (of which they should be charged anyway for so many other reasons). Why not Cablevision? I suppose they did a better job of keeping things clean.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20712396 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 11:45:37 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711319 anon : I have a couple of questions:

1. Why didn't Cablevision, who has the majority of their business in NY, also agree to this? When I used to have them as my provider, I could get the alt.* domain.

2. Is it actually legal for the AG in NY to affect what happens to me in NJ?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711319 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 01:48:20 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20710974 anon : I hope you guys are doing more than whining. You should be writing and calling and then spreading the word to others to do the same. We make enough noise and good stuff will happen :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20710974 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:45:44 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20709342 anon : Verizon's new system covers model airplanes but try to find a photo of one. It covers music but where are the MP-3's? Not a video on the system I could find. Their removal of UseNet had nothing to do with pornography. It was an excuse to save the money they would have to spend to keep up with the increasing traffic binaries required.

When you can charge the same thing and deliver half the service that's about the same as doubling the price.

Follow the money.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20709342 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:50:55 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20709119 JSarella : This blows, but I gues its a good thing I left VZ like 2 months ago, but I went with another ISP who didn't have usenet either, so I had to find a "premium" provider. I found this place called »www.hitnews.eu/english/, check it out, I have been getting consistently good speeds, and its about $11 a month, it depends on the dollar vs. euro, because the charge is 7.5 Euro. In any case, they have a pretty good server, comes with SSL and works well for me, so try them out. Btw, i used paypal to pay them. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20709119 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:01:19 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20704731 robertpil : What is going on with Teranews ? I just signed up for an account for 6 months and literally within 20 mins the server and their website went down and I have not had access since. No returned emails. No access to their website. I have read complete BAD BAD BAD things about this company. Why are people promoting it in this thread if their service is bad ? :mad:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20704731 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:20:22 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20703018 dbl2010 : I opened a new discussion to get more info from DSL Extreme about their newsgroup service.

»Need more info on newserver service.

Some of you maybe interested.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20703018 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:24:06 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702877 anon : There are a few Premium Newsservers out there for $15 per month like Newshosting.com and NewsRazor.net--Sucks but it also makes ya wonder Whats the next type of Censorship coming our way? I'm afraid to guess.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702877 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:57:11 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702790 anon : I specifically chose Verizon over Comcast for their unlimited newsgroup download policy!

Isn't this a breach of contract? They should give everyone who was using Usenet an internet discount from now on.

Why did they remove 100,000 groups to avoid child porn in just a few? Either they are lazy or stupid or both.

The sad and hilarious thing is that I called FiOS tech support to complain. The "internet expert" that answered the phone had never even heard of usenet newsgroups!!!! What kind of people to they have working tech support down there!??! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702790 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:40:52 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702728 dbl2010 : It seems DSL Extreme (»https://www.dslextreme.com) offers DSL service on Verizon areas. And they also have newsserver service outsourced from supernews. I couldn't find much information but from the dslreports faq, (»DSL Extreme FAQ »Does DSL Extreme offer newsgroup access? ) it is a 2 connections limits capped 256kpbs per connection. So you can get 512 kpbs max. And it seems there is no download limit. If speed is not a big deal for you, it may be worth to try.

I am trying to find a way to terminate my Verizon without paying early termination fee. I am on this 2 year agreement, unfortunately. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702728 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:32:59 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20701723 anon : Some of you guys will quietly accept this value reduction from Verizon but I'm of the opinion that a mass phone and email campaign will make Verizon rethink this move. At the very least, it will give them fodder to present any state official trying to pressure them to censure. Call (800)567-6789 and have the rep record this objection:
"The recent reduction in newsgroup availability warrants a money rebate/reduction for the decrease in service. There should also be an automatic release from any term obligation that I have with Verizon because the service has substantially changed since my contract/enrollment. Limiting the availability of public newsgroups is more than just a serious reduction in value of your service, it also inhibits the avenues we have as Americans for free speech and expression which is an important part of our personal freedom under constitutional right."
I encourage everyone reading this thread to copy and paste this post into any other forum thread dealing with this subject. I thank all the OP's who have taken the time to make this issue publicly known and suggest the moderators sticky this thread. I believe it is the most significant things to happen in broadband since its inception.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20701723 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:17:41 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700918 gsorel : »wwww.ngprovider.com has added ngroups.net special offers to verizon

The offers are visible from their start page. But it is only visible if you access it from Verizons network. The price is $29.99 per quarter ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700918 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:10:03 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700696 NormanS : I am already used to crippled NNTP service. No AG threats, just AT&T being SBC.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700696 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 01:56:53 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700072 Bobcat : Ha, ha, they don't want any complaints:

said by Verizon :
Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:

Recipient address: customersupport@verizon.com
Reason: Server rejected MAIL FROM address.
Diagnostic code: smtp;550 5.7.1 Access denied
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700072 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:39:08 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700055 Bobcat : My response to the idiots at Verizon:

said by me :
You didn't answer my question!! Why did Verizon drop nyc.transit, nj.general, and alt.cellular.verizon? There was absolutely no child porn on those (and tens of thousands of other) groups.

Why doesn't Verizon admit that the REAL reason for dropping those groups is to reduce the expenses of running the news servers? Why does Verizon continue to LIE?

Verizon's management should be ASHAMED for the way they have acted regarding this issue, i.e., continuing to LIE to their customers.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700055 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:35:34 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699992 anon : I remember that Verizon already deleted a number of questionable news groups years ago to get rid of the child porn. I think there was a lot from spammers lately in many binary groups, wish they could have just filtered them. Maybe they just saw this as an opportunity to get out before "other" reasons just became too contentious. Free movies, software, songs and porn. Copyrights?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699992 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:20:07 EDT Re: Dropping Verizon DSL http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699635 Bobcat : My combined POTS and DSL bill is $51. That's much cheaper than OOL+OV.

DSL plus a premium news server is less than OOL. The premium news server maxes-out my connection at 2.7 Mbps.

No matter which way I look at it, Verizon is cheaper than Cablevision. And my DSL is far more reliable than my OOL service ever was.

Now your experience may be different. I encourage you to do whatever's best for you.
--
02NH NORMAL HALT]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699635 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:58:49 EDT Re: Dropping Verizon DSL http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699519 MisterBill : My entire DSL connection was limited to 1.5 Mbps because of distance from the c/o. It's not clear I was doing the 1 Mbps from their news server. And now that I'd have to go off-network to get to an outside news server, what are the odds I'll get anything close to that?

Also, I'm paying $29.95 a month for OOL for 6 months. That's less than I was paying for DSL. After 6 months (or maybe during) I may decide to go for Optimum Voice and I can save even more.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699519 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:35:05 EDT Re: Dropping Verizon DSL http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699475 Bobcat : Yeah, but you'll find that OOL's newsgroups are outsourced, and speed-limited to 1 Mbps. And for the extra money you pay for OOL, you can buy access to a premium news server and have money left over. That's why I'm sticking with Verizon.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699475 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:21:40 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698823 MisterBill :
said by NormanS See Profile :

said by niblifar See Profile :
But this disease seems to be spreading; the state AG/Governor request for ISPs to curtail Usenet access, not the running afoul of existing laws.
It sounds like Verizon could have chosen to just curtail access to the offending groups, though.
The really scary thing about this is that the AG claimed that he was doing something good, when anyone who had a clue knew that is was really bogus since stuff can be posted anywhere (I am waiting for misc.consumers to be spammed and taken down). And then the ISP's turn around and use it as an excuse to cripple their newsgroup service, which was WAY beyond what was needed as a response. It's like they were waiting for an excuse to do this, and Cuomo gave it to them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698823 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:14:10 EDT Dropping Verizon DSL http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697887 MisterBill : I have been a Verizon DSL customer for several years and stuck with them even though I have slow 1.5mbps DSL service (no FiOS for a few years due to underground wiring and I am too far from the central office for faster DSL. Yet I stuck with Verizon because the service was pretty good and they had decent newsgroup coverage.

At 2am on Tuesday, all of the alt. newsgroups were removed from the Verizon servers. At 3pm yesterday, my Verizon phone and DSL went out because a careless Verizon tech who was doing some work in the box that services my house damaged my wire. At 5:20pm yesterday I stopped by my local Cablevision office and picked up a cable modem. They have all of the newsgroups and as the CV ad says, it really is 5 times faster than my DSL service.

My DSL and phone service wee repaired this morning so I now have both DSL and Optimum Online but I suspect that I will be dropping my DSL connection before long.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697887 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:19:01 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697671 NormanS :
said by niblifar See Profile :

Am I to believe that child porn and some ignorant, political schmuck are the reasons for dropping them?
»corp.sonic.net/ceo/2008/06/20/th···nternet/

According to the above, Sprint, Time-Warner Cable (Road Runner) and Verizon ran afoul of a sting operation. The resulting decision to trim newsgroups (or drop Usenet altogether, as Road Runner is doing) is a result of a settlement between the NYAG.

But this disease seems to be spreading; the state AG/Governor request for ISPs to curtail Usenet access, not the running afoul of existing laws.

It sounds like Verizon could have chosen to just curtail access to the offending groups, though.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697671 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:34:39 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696435 Jodokast96 : Well, that's not really all that much of a disagreement. I don't think it's the current cost that concerns them, but what the cost would be for them to manage (monitor) the service would become given the slap on the pee-pee they just got. It's just not worth the increasedcost and hassle for them to do it, so they just dropped it to 8. They probably came to the conclusion that to keep costs the same, that's what they could handle. Otherwise, why not just drop them totally? The backlash is still the same.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696435 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:46:52 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696318 Bobcat : I disagree. It has nothing to do with child porn and everything to do with the expense of managing the news servers. I just want Verizon to stop LYING about it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696318 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:27:06 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696251 Jodokast96 :
said by Bobcat See Profile :

How will it "dramatically cut down on the availability of child pornography" when it "does not prevent you or any other customer from accessing alt newsgroups through other Newsgroup services"? The answer is: It doesn't.
Actually, it will, at least as far as content that's coming from them. It can be argued that, even though they aren't placing the content there, they are responsible for it since it's on their servers. Combine that with the complaints from the AG being that Verizon did little to nothing when they were notified the material existed, dropping down to 8 makes it a hell of a lot easier to monitor what's actually there. They just don't want the hassle. I don't doubt they were seeing dollar signs about the reduced costs from managing them, but saw bigger dollar signs from the savings in fines, legal fees, and threat of lawsuits that the AG of NY opened them to. Anyone thinking this is about saving bandwith needs to reconsider, since people will just go elsewhere, the bandwidth is just going to be moved off network.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696251 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:14:19 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20695991 Ryno : now they get to pay more for backbone as many people will be going out of network.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20695991 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:22:34 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20695486 Bobcat : I asked Verizon about this over a week ago. Today, I got the following LIES from them:

said by Verizon :
We believe that limiting our Newsgroup service to the Big 8 groups will dramatically cut down on the availability of child pornography, which we believe is an important step in the overall fight against the exploitation of children online. We remain committed to combating child pornography and where we discover it on any Verizon server, we will immediately take action consistent with our terms of service to remove the content and report the matter to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Verizon's decision to limit its Newsgroup service to the Big 8 hierarchies does not prevent you or any other customer from accessing alt newsgroups through other Newsgroup services, including commercial Newsgroups as well as web-based services like Google Groups which are available at no charge.


How will it "dramatically cut down on the availability of child pornography" when it "does not prevent you or any other customer from accessing alt newsgroups through other Newsgroup services"? The answer is: It doesn't.

Any they don't even address the other (non-alt) newsgroups, like nyc.transit or nj.general.

Verizon doesn't even have the guts to admit they did it to reduce costs. Fucking liars.
--
02NH NORMAL HALT]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20695486 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:46:26 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20694976 oldnslow2 : I don't like this either, but complaining will likely have little impact. The best revenge if for all to sign up for a commercial service. The off network traffic will cost Verizon.

Here is a site which offers suggestions and prices. One offers a 20% discount for Verizon, Sprint, and TWC subscribers who just lost services (Newsgroupdirect). There may be others.

»www.ngprovider.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20694976 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:32:14 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20694387 anon : "the ISP would not know the exact content of any transmission."

Sorry for the typo]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20694387 Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:24:58 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20694377 anon : That's really bad. As an ISP, Verizon should at least know that they have the responsibility to set the record straight with AG of NY even if they has no more interest in providing newsgroup service. Without this understanding, the these AG might as well ask ISP to shut down email, IM or even the internet services itself since since the ISP would now know the exact content of any transmission.

Due to the lack of action by Verizon and these ISP, the front page news of arstechnica indicated that California Governor and AG has also send letter to ISP to block access to certain newsgroups. The ISP really need to get AG of each state understand what they are doing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20694377 Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:22:59 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20693458 anon : This is only tangentially about child porn. What really happened was the AG in New York successfully argued that the ISPs have to censor the traffic coming in. Verizon (and everybody else) knew this was impossible since anybody can post anything in the alt.* groups regardless of the actual topic at hand. You could get an Xbox 360 game posted in alt.binaries.beastiality if you really wanted to.

So instead Verizon said "Hey, we can use this ruling as a cover to remove all the alt.* newsgroups because they're using up our bandwidth for (mostly) non-legit purposes."

It's not about Verizon covering their tails. This is about Verizon removing a service that they didn't like to provide in the first place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20693458 Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:22:42 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20693362 Jodokast96 : It seems that Verizon got smacked for not doing anything when law enforcement (though Verizon didn't know they were) informed them of instances of kiddie porn. So they promised the NY AG they would monitor things and deal with them in a better manner. Just getting rid of them makes it a whole lot easier to monitor now, doesn't it? Now it's someone elses problem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20693362 Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:05:28 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20693130 anon : This is got to be some kind of conspiracy. What does the problem of child pornography has to do with newsgroup!?!? Shouldn't they go after the people who post them at first place as the root cause of problem? What if someone working for RIAA was the one who posted them? Would these same people go around internet and stuff these garbage into other service and make the same claim that those service should be shut down as well? This is some serious flaw in logic and violation of rights.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20693130 Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:16:34 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20691085 anon : I just called the Verizon Online number to complain. The guy I spoke with was also surprised that they dropped most Usenet groups, too. The Verizon Online number is 800 567 6789]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20691085 Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:43:27 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20689632 Lysis : just checked road runner forum, same post, both companies taking away newsgroups. Also for the guy saying Verizon is the worst company ever created, people say the same things about the cable companies in their forums, just a bad broadband situation in the USA methinks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20689632 Tue, 24 Jun 2008 03:02:54 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20689564 Iceberg32 : Well, there we have it!

The verizon news server has basically had its balls cut off. The only reason to stay with the worst company ever created IMHO, Verizon, is now gone.

I can't wait to be free of this abomination to mankind.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20689564 Tue, 24 Jun 2008 02:14:46 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20688542 ajf3 : I think this is going to cost verizon a lot more than they think... they probably thought of it in terms of only a small % of their users even use usenet & if some % of them leave they're still making out due to the bandwidth saved.

However, I think the majority will stay & just buy external usenet access - I just did. I used to get 300 down from the verizon news servers... with my new one it's not as steady, but it fluctuates between 250 and 600 (which is a nice suprise). The majority of the bandwidth they were losing to usenet is still going to be lost, but it's going to be out of network bandwidth - which I believe is much more expensive for them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20688542 Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:37:15 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20687692 anon : child porn has nothing to do with it.they want their bandwidth back and they are a tool of the riaa.They could get rid of child porn by killing specific sites.They are taking away newsgroups from paying customers and lying about the reasons as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20687692 Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:47:57 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20667279 Philly888 : I signed on with Verizon because of the newsgroups. Their killing them, along with the terrible customer service (India) is reason enough for me to consider a switch. Are there any national ISPs or more specifically any Philadelphia area ISPs who offer anything like Verizon USED TO offer? Or is searching for such an ISP a lost cause?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20667279 Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:37:28 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20661223 royhandy : "In preparation for this change, you will need to modify your news client(s) and unsubscribe from all newsgroups other than the newsgroups listed above. Failure to do so may interfere with the functioning of the Verizon network or use of the network by other Verizon users which is a violation of our Acceptable Use Policy."

If I am trying to access a newsgroup that no longer exists on Verizon's servers how can I possibly interfere with the functioning of Verizon's network? Is there an NNTP bug that causes packet storms when an unavailable newsgroup is requested?
--
money can't give what the truth takes away]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20661223 Wed, 18 Jun 2008 10:20:35 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20660928 Jodokast96 :
said by Carnivore See Profile :

said by niblifar See Profile :

Am I to believe that child porn and some ignorant, political schmuck are the reasons for dropping them?
I knew this was a slippery slope when Verizon dumped a bunch of binary groups a few weeks back. Now they've dumped virtually everything and that slippery slope looks more ominous than ever.

What's next, blocking instant messaging programs and killing IRC? Wholesale blocking of websites and P2P because they *might* be used improperly? Where does it end?

Where's the outrage from Internet users? Left unchecked this can only get worse.
Ok, I admit up front of my ignorance of the newsgroups. I've never used them, nor even showed an interest in them. That said, where is it said that Verizon is blocking you from accessing newsgropus altogether? Maybe I missed something along the way, but the only ones you won't be able to access are theirs, right? It's no different than any other paid serice shutting their doors. The only outrage should be because people have to spend extra to access newsgroups now. The rest is just alarmist.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20660928 Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:23:02 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20658028 Ryno :
said by Carnivore See Profile :

I knew this was a slippery slope when Verizon dumped a bunch of binary groups a few weeks back.
More like straight down a cliff than a slope.

I only wish they weren't lying about and using the porn as the excuse. All that does is show that they think their customers are too stupid to know it's just about money. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20658028 Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:30:36 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20657994 Carnivore :
said by niblifar See Profile :

Am I to believe that child porn and some ignorant, political schmuck are the reasons for dropping them?
I knew this was a slippery slope when Verizon dumped a bunch of binary groups a few weeks back. Now they've dumped virtually everything and that slippery slope looks more ominous than ever.

What's next, blocking instant messaging programs and killing IRC? Wholesale blocking of websites and P2P because they *might* be used improperly? Where does it end?

Where's the outrage from Internet users? Left unchecked this can only get worse.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20657994 Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:24:56 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20654552 pende_tim : Thanks! That is a good deal.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20654552 Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:02:37 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20651823 Bobcat :
said by Bobcat See Profile :

said by pende_tim See Profile :

Thanks. Does the 90GB/$25 have any expiration time or does it last forever if not drawn down?
The "Pay-by-Download" plan lasts forever. See »www.news.astraweb.com/downloadplans.html

With the current pricing, the "Pay-by-Download" plan is best if you download less than 46.8 GB per month. If you download more than that, the "Unlimited" plan is better.

P.S. I had noticed 2 months ago that my speed to outside newsservers via port 119 was being limited, so I switched to one of the alternate ports that are available.
Astraweb changed their pricing today. $25 gets you 110 GB now! That means it's a good choice if you download less than 57.2 GB per month. More than that, go with the unlimited plan.

And you can use SSL, too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20651823 Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:54:26 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20650541 Rattler :
said by niblifar See Profile :

Am I to believe that child porn and some ignorant, political schmuck are the reasons for dropping them?
It's the "stated" reason. The probable underlying one is, "Hey! We can get out of supplying a good percentage of what's on usenet, at least volume-wise, and blame it on curbing child pornography and the NY State Attorney General's office!"

While the listed ISPs have, oh so reluctantly :p, knuckled under I'm sure others will eventually follow suit. Switching to another ISP to spite V* or Comcrap or whoever, will generate but a short reprieve from free ISP based server cutbacks.

It's only a matter of time before Cuomo (and other interests) continue the campaign by pursuing the commercial, premium server market as well. It's probably inevitable. The RIAA has already gone after usenetserver.com for providing De Facto access to "pirated" music. I'm fairly sure that there is little public support for that attack but, do it in the name of curbing child pornography, killing "alt." access covers a crapload of other bases at the same time.

Don't get me wrong, child pornography is a disgusting enterprise and anything, within a reasonable solution (which killing all alt. access is NOT), should be done to curb it. But using a 16# maul to kill a cockroach is nuts, especially when the hammer head goes through the floor.

End of choir preaching.
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20650541 Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:54:45 EDT line running up the screen http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20650199 starrin :
said by niblifar See Profile :

»news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9967119-38.html

Am I to believe that child porn and some ignorant, political schmuck are the reasons for dropping them?
IMHO Verizon is just looking for a way to dump usenet entirely as COMCAST is doing in response to the same NY action. Usenet customers have always been 2nd class citizens receiving 2nd class service. Their proprietary groups (0.verizon.xxx) are usually full of complaints as to the service. VZ seized upon a moral issue to make a financial decision. As soon as enough folks leave and/or they figure out a way to rewrite their TOS agreement, I expect they will dump it all.
OTOH, I understand that Verizon Business is permitting all newsgroups presently carried to remain, EXCEPT for binaries.
For me, their action is a deal breaker. I'm simply undecided as to whether to go with a separate newsgroup provider, or dump VZ entirely and go with COX, entirely.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20650199 Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:44:32 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20649672 Bobcat :
said by pende_tim See Profile :

Thanks. Does the 90GB/$25 have any expiration time or does it last forever if not drawn down?
The "Pay-by-Download" plan lasts forever. See »www.news.astraweb.com/downloadplans.html

With the current pricing, the "Pay-by-Download" plan is best if you download less than 46.8 GB per month. If you download more than that, the "Unlimited" plan is better.

P.S. I had noticed 2 months ago that my speed to outside newsservers via port 119 was being limited, so I switched to one of the alternate ports that are available.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20649672 Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:22:15 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20649627 pende_tim : Thanks. Does the 90GB/$25 have any expiration time or does it last forever if not drawn down?
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20649627 Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:01:11 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20648642 Bobcat : They just added alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.singing-cowboy on May 30th and now they're taking it away.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20648642 Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:53:17 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20648618 Bobcat : »news.astraweb.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20648618 Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:48:42 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20646196 Lord_Black :
said by niblifar See Profile :

»news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9967119-38.html

Am I to believe that child porn and some ignorant, political schmuck are the reasons for dropping them?
Supposedly Andrew Cuomo, New York's Attorney General, has these big ISPs shaking in their boots. IMO, Verizon and the other ISPs have been looking for any reason to dump alt.binaries for some time now and this gives those that haven't done it yet a safe and "feel good" reason to go ahead and remove them. This whole removal of alt.* is of course an overreaction as there are probably only a few newsgroups dedicated to child porn out of the hundreds of thousands of newsgroups that exist.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20646196 Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:02:43 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20646053 Lord_Black : I don't really have a recommendation, but check these links for a list and rundown of premium newsgroups:

»www.slyck.com/ngnew.php?page=3
»www.newsgroupservers.net/
»www.exit109.com/~jeremy/news/pro···ers.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20646053 Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:29:16 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20646039 pende_tim : Anyone have a good low cost recommendation to replace this loss?

Looking for up to 10- 20 GB month.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20646039 Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:23:51 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20645949 niblifar : »news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9967119-38.html

Am I to believe that child porn and some ignorant, political schmuck are the reasons for dropping them?
--
Vita est bona.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20645949 Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:57:13 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20645901 Lord_Black : Not good. Do not want. I accept it was only a matter of time. Oh well, looks like I'm going to have to spring for a premium account. Sucks, I moved from Charter to Verizon due to them not limiting USENET access as much as Charter. Of course the short retention and the fact that some popular groups that were not accessible was a pain and I guess the writing was on the wall then, but it was still better to have the faster download speed from Verizon then being capped with Charter.

I guess the search is on for a premium account.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20645901 Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:43:33 EDT Re: line running up the screen http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20645851 just lou :
said by starrin See Profile :

How is their message retention on the servers?
On the pay servers it's 90+ days. I've noticed over 30 days on the free server. They also won't disconnect you if you're in the middle of downloading something over 50MB. Let's say you're downloading a 200MB file, they will deduct the credit from your free account, and you just won't be able to download anything for the next 3 days.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20645851 Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:28:54 EDT line running up the screen http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20645825 starrin :
said by just lou See Profile :

I posted this over in the FiOS forums, so maybe it will help some of you:

If you don't download more than 50MB per day, Teranews gives you free access to their premium usenet service. Their servers are excellent, even the free one. You only have to pay a one time activation fee of $3.95.

»www.teranews.com
How is their message retention on the servers?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20645825 Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:20:46 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20645823 BSAIII : Whew! Glad broadbandreports.com sent me an email saying I had not visited in awhile. That made me log on. And since I use Verizon glad I checked the Verizon messages.

Seems I won't be able to get to alt.dbs.echostar to get the dish on DISH.

Off to another news server!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20645823 Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:19:34 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20644386 just lou : I posted this over in the FiOS forums, so maybe it will help some of you:

If you don't download more than 50MB per day, Teranews gives you free access to their premium usenet service. Their servers are excellent, even the free one. You only have to pay a one time activation fee of $3.95.

»www.teranews.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20644386 Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:23:37 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20643458 pende_tim : That does not make me happy. :( Don't use the groups too much but they sure are handy in a pinch.

Tim
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20643458 Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:33:28 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20642676 anon : Creeping fascism. Recent court cases find that there is no expectation of privacy on the Internet. I don't know what that means yet. I know it means that what you say in a public forum is indeed public, but I hope people aren't reading that to mean that no wire communications or the equipment connected to it are to be considered private. Phone? E-mail? Transactions? What we need is new standards in encription for web traffic and DNS since communications CAN be monitored without court order.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20642676 Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:00:59 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20642614 anon : Some problems with the newsgroups (in OE) is that it divulges your e-mail address - the login name for that account by default. If you use your main account then you rat yourself and get mined by the Veagra spammers and get bombed. With Verizon, you can't change your main acct without cancelling your service.

Limiting newsgroup service wont fix that though, because ALL the newsgroups are easy to mine for e-mail addresses.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20642614 Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:41:58 EDT line running up the screen http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20642318 starrin : Well, if you want to , you can post here - but as of right now they are not posting comments that I know have been made:
»policyblog.verizon.com
But, since this is a c0ontracted service, are we going to see a rebate each month. Why not? My guess is they will simply change their TOS agreement to match their actions and go happily on their way.
Me too, I already have COX in the house. They can have it all]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20642318 Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:24:12 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20641758 niblifar : Well, it was nice while it lasted.
--
Vita est bona.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20641758 Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:31:08 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20641072 storm64007 : It sucks. They removed every alt.binaries.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20641072 Sat, 14 Jun 2008 00:13:42 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20640619 Iceberg32 : Sorry about that. :(

I saw that the news about it had been posted, but had not seen anywhere in writing exactly what *specifically* was being removed and what was remaining.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20640619 Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:07:09 EDT Re: News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20640595 Smith6612 : This is all over the place, but it's OK.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20640595 Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:02:26 EDT News: Verizon KILLING their News Server!!! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20640581 Iceberg32 : Sorry if this was discussed elsewhere, but I haven't seen it. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but...

This was posted yesterday/thursday in 0.verizon.announce

------------------------------------

IMPORTANT: CHANGE IN VERIZON NEWSGROUP SERVICE

On 06/24/2008, Verizon will be modifying its Newsgroup offerings to only offer groups in the Big-8 Newsgroup hierarchies, which are listed below. Users will not be able to post or download from any other newsgroups.

comp.*
humanities.*
misc.*
news.*
rec.*
sci.*
soc.*
talk.*

More information on the Big 8 hierarchies is available at
www.big-8.org.

The 0.verizon.* newsgroup hierarchy will also continue to be available.

In preparation for this change, you will need to modify your news client(s) and unsubscribe from all newsgroups other than the newsgroups listed above. Failure to do so may interfere with the functioning of the Verizon network or use of the network by other Verizon users which is a violation of our Acceptable Use Policy.

INFORMATION ABOUT CHANGES TO YOUR NEWSGROUP SERVICE


When will Verizon change its News service to carry only the Big 8?

The change will be effective on June 24, 2008. After June 24th,Verizon's Newsgroup service will carry only the Big 8 news hierarchies and the 0.verizon.* hierarchy.

[snipped the rest of the FAQ]
------------------------------------------

So there you have it, folks! Because of a few pathetic child porn newsgroups, verizon is effectively going to kill off their good news server very, very soon! Why? Because the company is just that pathetic.

After all the days on hold talking to verizon tech support through the years...all the times I've wasted my life...all the slow, dial-up like speeds w/ my DSL, the only redeeming quality was the news server. Now that that is gone, there is absolutely no reason to stay with this horrible, awful, pathetic company - at least, for me personally.

I would complain, but I'm not sure who to complain too...*sigh*]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20640581 Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:59:19 EDT