jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
|  [Serious] Strangers on a train
And then we already had this . . . »news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7455084.stm
Lemme make sure I've got the essentials down correctly here.
• Two senior Government officials (not clear if they're civil servants, MPs, or Cabinet Secretaries) are traveling on trains headed to London Waterloo Station. And that itself rather defies imagination. 
• Both of these individuals just 'happen' to take highly classified documents out of their briefcases (attache cases, whatever) on the train and coincidentally leave the documents lying on the seat of the train on which they were traveling.
• And both of these 'mislaid' documents were 'apparently' picked up by some (perfectly innocent, of course) fellow traveler (oh, got that word in, didn't I ) and subsequently returned, not to the Government but to the new media, (BBC in one case, the Independent in the other).
Now, am I the only person having a great deal of trouble in swallowing these explanations?
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris |
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pauldenton
join:2003-12-20
London
| said by jvmorris  :And then we already had this . . . » news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7455084.stmLemme make sure I've got the essentials down correctly here. • Two senior Government officials (not clear if they're civil servants, MPs, or Cabinet Secretaries) are traveling on trains headed to London Waterloo Station. And that itself rather defies imagination. nothing implausable there - "government officials" implies either:
a) Civil Servants (of whom Cabinet Secretaries are a subset}
or
b) "special advisors" - (overpaid and overnumerous  ) political appointees outside the civil service
said by jvmorris :• Both of these individuals just 'happen' to take highly classified documents out of their briefcases (attache cases, whatever) on the train and coincidentally leave the documents lying on the seat of the train on which they were traveling. i can't see anything in the BBC report that says they were left as loose documents rather than being in a brifcase/attache case/laptop case...
{back in the day, when it was Irish Terrorism that was the danger, it used to be safer in this regard because a forgotten peice of hand luggage left unaccompanied on a train (or more commonly in a pub ) would have been reported to the police as a "suspect package"...  |
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MarkH
reserved for later use
Premium
join:2002-12-19 | reply to jvmorris
Careful dude, don't question them or their actions.
They are always watching, and if you carry on asking awkward questions, they will lock you up for 42 days without charge.  |
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poacher 1rtd
R.I.P. Desert orchid
Premium
join:2004-02-25
oxford UK
| said by MarkH :Careful dude, don't question them or their actions. They are always watching, and if you carry on asking awkward questions, they will lock you up for 42 days without charge. Maybe someone will leave a hacksaw and file in the cell to use for your escape
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"History is a myth agreed upon." Napoleon Bonaparte.
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jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
| said by poacher 1rtd :said by MarkH :Careful dude, don't question them or their actions. They are always watching, and if you carry on asking awkward questions, they will lock you up for 42 days without charge. Maybe someone will leave a hacksaw and file in the cell to use for your escape Yes, ... and one of the guards would likely turn that into the BBC, also!
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris |
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jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
| reply to pauldenton
said by pauldenton :. . . said by jvmorris :• Both of these individuals just 'happen' to take highly classified documents out of their briefcases (attache cases, whatever) on the train and coincidentally leave the documents lying on the seat of the train on which they were traveling. i can't see anything in the BBC report that says they were left as loose documents rather than being in a brifcase/attache case/laptop case... {back in the day, when it was Irish Terrorism that was the danger, it used to be safer in this regard because a forgotten peice of hand luggage left unaccompanied on a train (or more commonly in a pub ) would have been reported to the police as a "suspect package"... But that would be even more bizarre behavior, paul! Someone finds an apparently abandoned briefcase (or whatever) on a train. Rather than notifying the transit authorities (or even simply handing it over to them), one delivers it to the BBC or the Independent on Sunday? Beggars belief, that does. Hell, I wouldn't even touch such a container!
Admittedly, brain rot may be setting in on the British citizenry after watching so many abominable American TV programs, but still . . .
The whole story is just crazy.
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris |
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poacher 1rtd
R.I.P. Desert orchid
Premium
join:2004-02-25
oxford UK | Jv are you saying you think they were left on purpose, and people were told where to find them.
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"History is a myth agreed upon." Napoleon Bonaparte.
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jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
edit:
June 17th, @07:49PM
| Did I say that? Let me rephrase that. Did I say that?
Or to put it another way Did I say that? 
Or, perhaps, to respond a bit more clearly, . . .
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris |
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poacher 1rtd
R.I.P. Desert orchid
Premium
join:2004-02-25
oxford UK
edit:
June 18th, @06:58AM
| said by jvmorris :Did I say that? Let me rephrase that. Did I say that? Or to put it another way Did I say that? Or, perhaps, to respond a bit more clearly, . . . Well I think they were lost on purpose, lost to order.
1. if a member of the public found them they would take them home, read them, then not know what to do with them.
2. they were found quickly and taken quickly to the BBC and newspaper, suspicious, would a normal member of the public think that fast, not sure.
3 do you think the UK security services use DSLR/UK chat, I think I`d better hide because I think they and the politicians have`nt got the brains they were born with. they lose laptops, cd`s etc with the personal info of the uk population and tell us we and our data is safe.
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"History is a myth agreed upon." Napoleon Bonaparte.
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nemo1966
join:2005-11-15
England | I agree.. something doesn't sit right for me.
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jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
| I am, admittedly, a bit 'underwhelmed' at the capability of both UK security forces and members/employees of the Government to safeguard classified or otherwise sensitive information. Indeed, the current Government seems to have a very nonchalant attitude about the whole matter.
Here in the US, if I were guilty of any of these infractions, I would not only be fired by my employer, I would be facing criminal prosecution.
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris |
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GeorgeCr
Funny it worked last time
Premium
join:2003-07-18
Sheffield,UK
clubs: 
 ·BlueYonder Interne..
| reply to jvmorris
The curious thing was when they showed them (partially) on the BBC news marked "For Your Eyes Only", yet their correspondent was openly reading them. I'm assuming he isn't authorised for that level of clearence?
The second set of papers were for a conference briefing, so not classified but still on a sensitive subject.
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Team Helix | SETI |
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nemo1966
join:2005-11-15
England
| reply to jvmorris
OMG it gets worse!!!
»www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/···6151021/
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jvmorris
I Am The Man Who Was Not There.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-03
Reston, VA
| This one's for you, nemo. 
As always, "Ve haf a bettah idea!" »www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/···peanuts/ (and don't forget to watch the video and then enjoy the comments).
And this is serious, not the dailymash or our own beloved Onion. In the case of London, the important thing is to increase the congestion charge to such astronomical rates that only MPs and senior civil servants could drive in the downtown area. Everyone else would have to rely on public transport.
Now, it's clearly impossible to 'leak' a highly classified sensitive document by 'leaving' it in your government-provided limousine or personal government-subsidized transport where it could then be 'discovered' by some anonymous mule. You'd have to use public transport, but you could only get on the public transport (tube, train, bus, coach) if you had an EMD safety bracelet. And, of course, there are always the terrorists to be considered.
All it would take would be to incorporate an automatic fare collection system into the bracelet. Unfortunately, you don't always get on public transport at a major depot, so it would be necessary for all English residents (and visitors or tourists) to wear the bracelet at all times -- if they wanted to use public transport, of course. The built-in GPS unit could then be used to determine what MP/senior civil servant occupied what seat on what conveyance and what other passengers might approach within 'reaching' distance. Furthermore, a 'steward' on each carriage/coach could then monitor behavior by all passengers and anyone seen leaving a package could then be immediately 'incapacitated' until such time as a SO-19 contingent could be contacted to investigate the suspicious behavior.
Now, I know you may think it would be difficult to find enough citizens to serve as 'public transport stewards'. Never fear, there is a ready supply of individuals with training and considerable experience in this line of work in such relatively new EU members as Poland and (the former East) Germany (GDR), who are currently looking for employment and the UK would be perfect in the minds of many of these (especially these days).
And please note, I've only scratched the surface (as it were and so to speak) of potential applications of this device that might appeal to the current Labour Government. Suitably equipped stewards could be dispatched to every street junction throughout the UK and to every footpath where they could immediately incapacitate any individuals dropping cigarette butts, fly-tipping, or failing to clean up after their dogs (or even cats!). Anti-social behavior would become a thing of the past! Even pubs could be provided with a device to identify potential under-age drinkers or subdue anyone who might become too rowdy -- and think about the possibilities of requiring everyone attending a football match to wear such a braclet to obtain entry! Truly, the possibilities are staggering!
I think you should bring this to the attention of the Home Secretary immediately.
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris |
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pauldenton
join:2003-12-20
London
| reply to jvmorris
[Serious] Strangers on a train - again.....
now it appears that nulabour's latest wheeze to pay cash to help with rising fuel bills to all parents (however wealthy) but not to anyone else below 65 - however poor!
quote:
Details of the winter fuel payment scheme were inadvertently revealed by a top civil servant who was overheard discussing the secret strategy on a train. Sir Brian Bender, permanent secretary at the Department for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform, told a colleague that ministers were keen to give extra money to “ordinary people” worried about rising energy bills. When asked whether the payments would be aimed at disadvantaged groups, Bender replied: “No, a fuel rebate for everybody on child benefit.”
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The existence of the family winter fuel payment plan had been known to only a handful of ministers and officials. However, on July 25, Bender, a veteran mandarin, was travelling in a first-class carriage of the 3.05pm GNER service from Leeds to London. A passenger who was sitting near the civil servant said she heard him disclose the prime minister’s fightback plans to a younger colleague during the journey. “I first thought they were bankers,” said the passenger, who holds a senior position in the media. “They were talking about deals, investments and large sums of money. Then I realised they were civil servants discussing government policy. “The two of them were having a wide-ranging conversation. They were talking about their career plans and their summer holidays, but they were mainly talking about the government plans relating to the rising price of fuel.” Bender, whom she identified later from pictures on his department’s website, said he was returning to London to discuss the fuel plans. “It was only as we drew into the station that it became clear exactly what the plan was,” said the fellow passenger. “I heard him say: ‘He wants to give it to the ordinary people.’ I think he was referring to Gordon Brown. His colleague suggested the extra cash would go to the needy, but he replied, ‘No, a fuel rebate for everybody on child benefit’.” A spokeswoman confirmed that Bender had been on the King’s Cross train that day but refused to comment on the fuel rebate plan. “No decisions on any new measures have yet been taken,” she said.
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Officials are examining a range of possible taxes to pay for the new benefits. About £500m is likely to be raised through a “green tax” on power suppliers, and Brown is still considering a separate windfall levy on utility companies.
»www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u···3655.ece
since such taxes will, of course, be passed straight on to customers in even higher bills, the poor will now be gouged to pay for rich parent's fuel bills
one can only hope that this is a deliberate attempt to "float" a policy to "test the water", and it will sink without trace {but somehow i doubt it....  } |
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