pete424
Premium
join:2001-03-09
Andover, KS
clubs:
| reply to KrK
Re: Roof inspector liabilty?
I am a Realtor in the state of Kansas and the laws regarding home inspectors are different state by state. To begin, home inspectors are not scum and if they have ASHI certification you can be pretty sure they know what they are doing. Many states do not have license requirements for inspectors and in fact most are only liable for the amount of the inspection. Here in Kansas we just got a bill passed by the state legislature that now requires inspectors to be licensed and they now have a $10,000 liability for this kind of issue. By the way Ross, the home inspector is hired by the buyers, not the sellers. If I am the Buyer's agent and our inspector does not do a good job, I will NEVER use him again. The main issue here is the disclosure document filled out by the sellers. There is where you have recourse. |
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Kringle
Dr.D
Premium
join:2004-02-27
Pierrefonds, QC | reply to KrK
What's with the chip board for the roof anyway? Is that even allowed by code? Ours (up here) is always 5/8 ply, often tongue and groove. |
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ross
join:2000-08-16
 ·Digizip
2 edits | reply to Hellrazor
in reply to HellRazor:
Nope, NOT an engineer.
I assume you charge for your services. Post a copy of your complete standard contract, and let's see what responsibility you take for your "expert" opinions. What makes you think you're qualified to have a professional opinion? Are you credentialed or licensed in any profession? Do you have liability insurance, including professional errors and omission coverage? Do you indemnify your customers who rely on your judgments?
I agree engineering firms charge for their expertise, but they are also liable for their opinions. |
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dolphins
Miami Dolphins
Premium
join:2001-08-22
Westville, NJ
 ·Comcast
| reply to KrK
A little more info that might help you.
Here in NJ the use of and ice & water shield under tabbed shingles for any roof under a 4/12 pitch is required by code.
Unfortunately any roof repair under 25% of the total roof does not require any permits in NJ.
Kringle  What's with the chip board for the roof anyway? Is that even allowed by code? Ours (up here) is always 5/8 ply, often tongue and groove.
--
Prevent Malware |
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Kringle
Dr.D
Premium
join:2004-02-27
Pierrefonds, QC | Thanks. Must say I'm a little surprised about OSB, though, since it only has 1 axis of strength and plywood has 2. Can't argue with the code. |
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robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX | I don't think that's correct. The fibers in OSB are not aligned but go in random directions. I would consider it equally strong in any direction in the two dimensional plane parallel to it's surface. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
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·AT&T Southwest
1 edit | reply to ross
said by ross :P.S.- I forgot to ask if there was an access door to the attic space above the addition, either from the main dwelling attic, or through the ceiling in the addition? It would be illegal for it not to have one or the other. Also, what ventilation was provided for the attic space above the addition? It's in the addition itself. It's an access panel in the roof.
About the permits, etc... Wow. Ok that's a lot of info to digest. Thank you.
I guess I need to do more research! |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
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| reply to builderbob
Re: Building permit?
said by builderbob :
Ross makes some good points, especially #1. I hadn't thought about recourse via building permits/licensed contractor warranties. If this construction is living area (heated), the construction required a building permit. Again, looking at your pictures I'm guessing that the homeowner might have been the contractor? Ok, since I'm a nooby on this, is there any general way to lookup permits filed on a piece of property? I see you're talking about contacting the building inspector, but frankly the last thing I'd want to do *at the moment* would be the city ordering me to tear it down or something. Also, as for heated area.... There's a rub! This "addition" is called a "Sunroom" and my understanding is that it involved "enclosing" an existing porch. It's not a heated area at all--- but--- the homeowner did something--- he added a vent with a fan, and a piece of ducting that goes through the original roof (hole) and connects to the living room. You hit a switch and the fan pulls air from the house thru this one duct and out into the sunroom. It's by no way what I would call an adequate heating or cooling system. It's also only one way (ie no air return.)
I'll check into your recommendations.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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Kringle
Dr.D
Premium
join:2004-02-27
Pierrefonds, QC
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to robbin
Re: Roof inspector liabilty?
I may be wrong and there's a specific OSB for roofing but:
said by »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriented_strand_board :
While OSB does not have a continuous grain like a natural wood, it does have a specific axis of strength. This can be seen by observing the alignment of the surface wood chips. The most accurate method for determining the axis of strength is to examine the ink stamps placed on the wood by the manufacturer.
The guy who built the garden shed on my property before I bought it used OSB (we really do just call it chip board) and, strength-wise, it really does suck compared to plywood. |
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UDubergamer
join:2004-03-03
Zeeland, MI | reply to KrK
Roofs are generally rated for 10 years but some are less. So you are about due for a roof anyway. |
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builderbob
@cox.net
| reply to KrK
telephone the inspection office and ask if there are any record of permit applications/inspections for your address. you shouldn't have to give them any other information other than your a new owner. if there was a permit, they will provide the date and name of the general contractor.
from your pictures it appears that someone added a roof based on the intersecting valleys. that type of alteration would typically require a permit with the applicant having to file a drawing stamped by a professional engineer or architect.
if you ask your neighbors- one of them will probably give you details.
you shouldn't be concerned about what the inspection official might do as the seller and/or his contractor have liability for any violation. |
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY | reply to KrK
»www.cityoftulsa.org/OurCity/Busi···censing/ |
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robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
| reply to builderbob
Quite easy for an anonymous poster to tell you you have nothing to be worried about if you contact the building inspector. Personally I think you would be opening a can of worms that you probably don't want opened. From the looks of it a few hundred in materials, a little of your time and you can repair that section of roof yourself. It's not that big of deal now but if you make a big deal out of this little problem you may find you have big problems on your hands. You bought a house "as is" knowing it needed some work. This just adds a little more. |
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
 ·T-Mobile US
1 edit | said by robbin :Personally I think you would be opening a can of worms that you probably don't want opened. Very excellent advise as once the authorities have wind of a problem a machine starts and a timer begins ticking and that machine gives not a hoot who caused the problem all it wants is a resolution to the problem before the bell rings.
IMHO unless the problem is a life safety or health issue the better course would be to mediate or litigate vs. getting the AHJ involved.
Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician.
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whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
2 edits | Simply ask for a copy of the permit and other history on the house. I have worked with the Tulsa 'building department' on a large scale commercial project, and they are really easy going folks. Unlike many other cities, they don't provide permits or inspections for many classes of work. If they ask why, simply tell them you are a new homeowner, and want to find out everything you can regarding its history. You can also explain you are considering putting an extension on the house, and want to know the process. You may also be able to perform a permit lookup using your address here:
»www.cityoftulsa.org/OurCity/Busi···censing/
(Click on 'PermitWeb' on the right side.) |
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LeeWL
join:2002-11-10
Morrisville, NC
·AT&T Southeast
| You might also be able to look up any permits on your jurisdictions tax site. In our area the county keeps those records and I beleiove most places that is the case as well. »services.wakegov.com/realestate/ You can check via the address and see the records for that property. THey do keep track of permits, since additions and work can affect the valuation of the property and you know the tax man wants his money.
Now, just because it is not listed there does not mean they did take a permit out, but it is a totally anonymous place to start.
I will have to say that from the pictures and everythign you are saying, I would be quite surprised if they took a permit out on the renovation.
Your inspector also screwed you over as that roof "work" should have set off alarm bells in his mind. Also, you definitely have a case against the homeowner as they clearly did some of that caulking recently and changed their answer on teh disclosure. About that, a word of advice (and I am sure you would do it differntly next time) the next time you see a disclosure form with something so important crossed out and changed, you should not buy that house without some explanation of why. |
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robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
| I don't understand where the permit issue is going. It is quite obvious from the pics that it was not done under permit. Saying that the seller is responsible is easy, proving it more difficult and getting money could be very hard and costly. Even if the buyer sued and won doesn't guarantee payment, only a judgement in favor. This looks to me rather minor and trying to enforce the contract could be both lengthy and costly. I don't believe it's worth either the time or energy needed in this negative direction. Just fix the roof and it's over in a few days. Lesson learned -- no mater how many inspectors you hire and how much you pay them -- do your own inspection. If the buyer would have climbed on the roof themselves, the damage would have been obvious. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Yes, lesson learned. First time home buy. In the future, I think I'll be a little more demanding and ask a lot more questions.... and also ask for some evidence, not just take people at their word. |
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Hellrazor
join:2002-02-02
Abyss
| reply to ross
said by ross :in reply to HellRazor: What makes you think you're qualified to have a professional opinion? Oh I don't know. Maybe the 18 years I've worked dealing with every aspect of building maintenance at work. From a 2cent washer to a $30million new building. Needing to deal with every roof type under the sun. From shingles to steel to EPDM to TPO. Working on 3 phase up to 440/480. Troubleshooting HVAC system. Dealing with specs and bids. DDC controls and energy management systems.
I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I said I knew anything. It's not like I have a job doing that kind of work or anything 
BTW: If you bothered to read what I said. I only go check on houses for close friends. I don't charge a cent, just doing it as a favor. I've looked into becoming certified for inspections, but I don't know if I want to go that route. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | I appreciate everyone's advice, thoughts, opinions and experiences. It's all useful, and educational.
Even if there are disagreements, I still find the discussion itself to be very useful.
Thanks everyone! |
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