how-to block ads
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Re: Enhances my experience how??? What has an ISP got to do with Ads? That's up to the content provider of the sites I visit, not the ISP that's delivering them. If they want to provide pages of ads on their own website, that's up to them, but don't touch the content being delivered from my content providers. | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Enhances my experience how??? said by sbrook  :What has an ISP got to do with Ads? That's up to the content provider of the sites I visit, not the ISP that's delivering them. If they want to provide pages of ads on their own website, that's up to them, but don't touch the content being delivered from my content providers. Also the ISP is stealing from the Content Provider site since by swapping their own ads for the ones the Content Provider supplied, the Content Provider is no longer being paid for the ads they attempted to send. | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
| Re: Enhances my experience how??? said by RARPSL :Also the ISP is stealing from the Content Provider site since by swapping their own ads for the ones the Content Provider supplied, the Content Provider is no longer being paid for the ads they attempted to send. This is a common misconception, but one with some foundation.
In this case, they are not overlaying or replacing anyone else's ad buys -- according to NebuAd.
If you're on a NebuAd ISP and you surf to a page with one of NebuAd's ad-network partners on it, then you will see a targeted ad instead of a random one. The advertiser for the random ad will not be charged and the advertiser for the targeted ad will be charged a premium.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Enhances my experience how??? said by funchords :said by RARPSL :Also the ISP is stealing from the Content Provider site since by swapping their own ads for the ones the Content Provider supplied, the Content Provider is no longer being paid for the ads they attempted to send. This is a common misconception, but one with some foundation. In this case, they are not overlaying or replacing anyone else's ad buys -- according to NebuAd. If you're on a NebuAd ISP and you surf to a page with one of NebuAd's ad-network partners on it, then you will see a targeted ad instead of a random one. The advertiser for the random ad will not be charged and the advertiser for the targeted ad will be charged a premium. OK. I attributed the "stealing from" to the wrong party in the process. Here is a revised analysis.
Content Provider 1 gets ads from Ad Provider 2 and is supplied with an Ad from Company 3 which it sends. It will be paid for serving this Ad (or it might be only if the ad is clicked - I forget). The page is sent to User 4 at ISP 5 (who intercepts the page and swaps in an Ad Provider 2 Ad from Company 6 (who gets charged a premium for replacing the Ad from Company 3 [who is still paying for the Ad even though it was never delivered).
Thus Ad provider is double-dipping since it is being paid to replace ads as well as being paid for feeding ads that never get displayed (since they were replaced in transit after being supplied and charged for at the Content Provider injection point). | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: Enhances my experience how??? I really can't follow that without a whiteboard and some Ritalin, but I'll offer this instead --
What's to keep the Transit provider (e.g. XO, Level3, Abovenet, Cogent, etc.) from cutting its own deals, which cut into the ISP deals, and our datastreams get sold umpteen times?
This has to stop, now, completely, dead.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Enhances my experience how??? said by funchords :I really can't follow that without a whiteboard and some Ritalin ... "Sorry about that" - Maxwell Smart
The Executive Summary is that the Content Provider is supplied with Ads to serve which are paid for by the Ad Client Companies (they pay so that for every X Ads served, theirs will be served Y times). When the ISP swaps Ad2 for Ad1 (due to being told to due to Targeting) the Ad Client is being charged for Ads that are not actually getting delivered (they get counted as being delivered by get hijacked/suppressed before getting delivered to the User's Browser). Thus the Ad Company is not only getting paid for Ads that never reach the User but also getting paid a premium for the Ads that get substituted for the suppressed Ads.
My explanation only documented the steps that are occurring when this scam happens. | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: Enhances my experience how??? said by RARPSL :the Content Provider is supplied with Ads to serve which are paid for by the Ad Client Companies (they pay so that for every X Ads served, theirs will be served Y times). When the ISP swaps Ad2 for Ad1 (due to being told to due to Targeting) the Ad Client is being charged for Ads that are not actually getting delivered (they get counted as being delivered by get hijacked/suppressed before getting delivered to the User's Browser). Thus the Ad Company is not only getting paid for Ads that never reach the User but also getting paid a premium for the Ads that get substituted for the suppressed Ads. According to THEM (famous last words), it's not the ISP swapping the ads but its the ad network upon detecting the NebuAd cookie. So, in theory (or at least in hope), the ads delivered will be counted correctly. All the ads are presented from the same ad networks.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Enhances my experience how??? said by funchords :said by RARPSL :the Content Provider is supplied with Ads to serve which are paid for by the Ad Client Companies (they pay so that for every X Ads served, theirs will be served Y times). When the ISP swaps Ad2 for Ad1 (due to being told to due to Targeting) the Ad Client is being charged for Ads that are not actually getting delivered (they get counted as being delivered by get hijacked/suppressed before getting delivered to the User's Browser). Thus the Ad Company is not only getting paid for Ads that never reach the User but also getting paid a premium for the Ads that get substituted for the suppressed Ads. According to THEM (famous last words), it's not the ISP swapping the ads but its the ad network upon detecting the NebuAd cookie. So, in theory (or at least in hope), the ads delivered will be counted correctly. All the ads are presented from the same ad networks. OK - To be precise, I should have said "When the ISP receives Ad2 2 not Ad1 ...". This does not affect my main point of the page being sent with Ad 1 and arriving at the User's Browser with Ad2 when Ad 1 was paid for and counted as being served.
If the swapping code looks at the Ad that was there before it modified the HTML and decrements the counter for that Ad (so it will go back into the rotation as if it had not been given to a Content Provider to serve in the first place) then this is "fair" to the Ad Purchaser. I do not know the internals of the Ad Network's system so I can not state that this can be done. It would probably require that all the Ad Selection (and Monitoring) be done from one database so that the counting can be done. OTOH: I can see a setup where the Ads are spread over a number of databases (none of which share an Ad) so that if the swapping is done from a different database, the served times count correction can not be done unless the server talks to the server with the correct database. | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: Enhances my experience how??? Here's the disconnect:
There is no ad swapping code. (According to them.)
(but I don't blame you for believing that there is, because there is ad-swapping history in a couple points in this company's history.)
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Enhances my experience how??? said by funchords :Here's the disconnect: There is no ad swapping code. (According to them.)(but I don't blame you for believing that there is, because there is ad-swapping history in a couple points in this company's history.) In that case where in the process does my web viewing history trigger a targeted as opposed to random ad? Are they saying that when an ad is selected to be sent me by the content provider, that the ad supplied is a targeted as opposed to random (rotation) ad and thus what ends up a at my browser is what the content provider originally sent? | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC | Re: Enhances my experience how??? Yes, now you got it. And they can do this because NebuAd force loads cookies for its partner ad networks that identify you as a NebuAd profile when you visit that page. | |
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