Why on Earth... in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20697927 en Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:20:31 EDT Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:20:31 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21023013 thefoxbox : Where was my 8/8? or 8/4? or 8/2?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21023013 Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:48:02 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21023007 thefoxbox : Isn't the reason cable co's have to spend so much more money is because their technology is so outdated?

And the coverage of FiOS is so SMALL/minute compared to cable's...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21023007 Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:47:30 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20717613 moonpuppy :
said by fiberguy See Profile :

Wow! You call me a shill and then you say that I'm calling you names? Seriously, I can't take you for real any more.
That's o.k, no one takes you seriously either.

For someone who says they want to stay on topic, you sure do go off on tangents.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20717613 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:28:18 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20717598 moonpuppy :
said by fiberguy See Profile :

Um, looney bin, seriously.. you need an education. Do you know what it is to have WORKED for cable for many years? Seriously, you need to get a life and stop before i pull out the keyboard and go ape on ya.

WHAT I do for a living is NONE OF YOUR F&*$#ING business. Get it? Keep to the rules which is to keep on topic and not about the user.

We'll leave it at that before I get another moderator warning.

I will not respond further to you in this thread.
Take a look at your previous posts. YOU made it known you work for Comcast. If you didn't want it known, you should have never mentioned it.

As for moderator warnings, you earned those yourself. Maybe if you stopped insulting people and start debating issues civilly, you wouldn't have that problem.

The facts remain that Verizon's fiber system is easily scalable and can do more now than cable's coax. For Comcast of any other cable company to upgrade to what FIOS provides, will require a lot of infrastructure upgrade and lots of equipment being swapped out. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20717598 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:25:18 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20714388 anon : This is a late reply but on the question of who has more fiber in their network. This is from comcast web site one year ago. comcast plant route miles 563k --- fiber route miles 126k If you take fiber route miles from plant route miles you have 437k miles of coax in comcast outside plant. So for every mile of fiber you have maybe 3 miles of coax. 1/3 of the outside plant is fiber. 126000 miles is a lot of glass but nowhere near what the BIG DOGS have,This is a 2001 press release,before the acquisition of MCI or the start of fios »www.newscenter.verizon.com/press···29737158]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20714388 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:19:42 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20714292 MrSpock29 :
said by fiberguy See Profile :

Maybe if you were reading everything in its entirety and kept up with the context, you would not have posted what you did. Follow the whole thread instead of picking out a line or two.
Oh I have read everything, and can see you have zero credibility. You are the one picking and choosing. Since the topic is fios and not uverse, cut with the copper garbage too. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20714292 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:46:44 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711697 Dogfather :
said by fiberguy See Profile :

Wow! You call me a shill and then you say that I'm calling you names? Seriously, I can't take you for real any more.
He calls you a shill because you are a shill. You have ZERO objectivity and demonstrate time and time again that you have a complete lack of understanding about cable and telco networks. You are an utter joke here.

It's time I put your lame shilling ass back on Ignore while you go cash that cable propaganda check and collect your next round of mindless talking points from your cable masters.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711697 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:03:11 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711695 Dogfather : Huh? You're comparing current MoCA 1.1 throughput speeds which are in the 100+Mb range to what then? Certainly not cable.

Yeah, if you have a current generation MoCA install you currently max at about 270Mb in house with the Actiontec router being the true limiting factor at 130Mb for MoCA and 100TX for RJ45. Next gen MoCA will support 300-400Mb in house and that is if they bother sticking with MoCA for HSI. My CAT6 install, which took my installer 20-30 minutes to cleanly pull (including installing RJ45 wallplates) obviously supports 1Gb and the newest ONTs being installed already have 1000TX RJ45 ports on them which would make in house copper capacity irrelevant.

But this just another of your red herrings. You were drawing comparisons to cable struggling over copper and saying well Verizon has copper too, as if their limitations are the same. It's apples and oranges. There is Cu between everyone's router and computer. By your logic, Verizon maxes at 100Mb given most people don't have 1000TX LAN adapters and they're running 130Mb WAN routers.

Verizon has no bottleneck because they're not running at capacity. They could double their speeds tomorrow and offer a synchronous 100Mb tier if they chose to and with how the top tiers are priced, they could do so with ZERO network management.

Meanwhile cable with their DOCSIS limitations (again, zero to do with coax/Cu) is struggling to do 20/1 and even Comcast, with the latest and greatest DOCSIS 3 is managing 50/5 for $150 ($10 more than I pay for 50/20 and I believe that is $60 more than the VZ NYC market pays for 50/20).

Cable's upload speeds are a total joke...yet again, another DOCSIS limitation. Even with SDV, channel bonding and other BW saving tricks, they're supporting 1/4 the speed of G-PON and sharing that with HUNDREDS of homes. B-PON is shared with 32 homes (not subscribers) and G-PON is 32 to 64 depending if it's an upgraded area or not (my area is 32 homes).

Most importantly...this so-called in-house bottleneck of 130Mb-1Gb for Verizon (depending on which ONT is install) is EASILY upgraded. ONT swaps are easy and bridge/router swaps even easier. Hell in my case, it's easier to swap the ONT than to get to my STB because of the cabinet it' s in.

And while Cablelabs finishes finalizing DOCSIS 3 specifications, companies are already working on standards for 10 Gb, yeah, TEN GIGABIT G-PON. Between here in there is WDM (already in the field in Korea serving tens of thousands of subs, not on some drawing board) which can do 10Gb on a single stand, which like channel bonding for cable, isn't a titanic leap for Verizon given WDM can run over Verizon's CURRENT fiber pole/ground infrastructure (the expensive part of the network).

And competition need not drive Verizon to WDM given WDM-PON doesn't require encryption and it makes the fiber infrastructure easier to maintain because of the improved diagnostic abilities provided by WDM. So as the network ages, WDM becomes more attractive no matter what cable competitors are up to.

So while DOCSIS 3 BARELY gets cable competitive B-PON, Verizon has already indicated that the next step for them after G-PON (which is currently being deployed) will in fact be WDM. So G-PON does 4X DOCSIS 3, WDM will provide 16X DOCSIS 3 thoughput...again, divided between just a fraction of the homes cable does. 1Gb residential service is certainly within reach of Verizon without huge changes to their fiber network.

Just as telco had handily lost the speed/capacity war in cable vs DSL, cable even with DOCSIS 3 loses handily to FTTH.

It is my opinion that cable should take a page from the telco playbook and battle price 'cause we see from Verizon customer's buying patterns that speed doesn't mean shit. People buy on price. If cable would run their 4-6Mb tiers back down into the $30-35 range, they would KILL Verizon just as the telcos killed cable in new adds when they offered dirt cheap DSL and getting those subs gives them a better chance of selling double-triple play deals. We see that TWC $99 triple play is effective since video competitors are spending hundreds of thousands to counter advertise against it saying it's only a "promo" deal. The fact they mention it at all means the $99 is HUGELY effective.

In one of your silly posts, you said Verizon shouldn't be proud because they're not maxing their throughput. Quite the contrary. They should be proud because they're soundly beating next-gen cable's offerings without having to come even close to their current capacity.

Where is cable's response?
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711695 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:02:28 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711645 fiberguy : Maybe if you were reading everything in its entirety and kept up with the context, you would not have posted what you did. Follow the whole thread instead of picking out a line or two.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711645 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:47:34 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711643 fiberguy : Wow! You call me a shill and then you say that I'm calling you names? Seriously, I can't take you for real any more.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711643 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:46:09 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711642 fiberguy : Um, looney bin, seriously.. you need an education. Do you know what it is to have WORKED for cable for many years? Seriously, you need to get a life and stop before i pull out the keyboard and go ape on ya.

WHAT I do for a living is NONE OF YOUR F&*$#ING business. Get it? Keep to the rules which is to keep on topic and not about the user.

We'll leave it at that before I get another moderator warning.

I will not respond further to you in this thread.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711642 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:44:32 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711640 fiberguy : If you are going to stand behind that post, then I give up on you.

I'm done here. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711640 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:42:08 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711636 fiberguy : I can't get past your bandwagon speak.. and I certainly can't get past your 120/node.. you must not be able to read or smokin' something really good tonight. I do believe that I clearly said "120 per node." Since we're talking home per node served, you should be able to put 2 and 2 together. I know you're smarter than that, Skeet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711636 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:40:13 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20707013 moonpuppy :
said by Dogfather See Profile :

Of course cable is crapping their pants over FiOS. They're spending millions in counter advertising and lies to try and combat it. Cable ramps of speeds to the point their networks are collapsing and they're turning to traffic shaping, caps and boost gimmicks to try and match it.

Anyone who doesn't acknowledge this simple fact is either a shill, an idiot, or both.
The issue is simple. Telcos rested on their laurels for decades. I remember when long distance was one company and you paid for it. To get people to use it, they told you to "reach out and touch someone."

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b3313ch···=related


Wish I could find those commericals where ATT was begging companies to use long distance to get things done instead of mail. Something along the lines of long distance bills being way up but overdue accounts are down and cash flow is doing great. I beleive it was Edward Andrews (grandpa Baker in the Sixteen Candles movie) who played the guy touting long distance.

»www.imdb.com/name/nm0028647/

Cable came along and after many years, started going into other areas like high speed internet. The Bells tried to counter with ISDN (too expensive) and then DSL (too slow and not as widespread.)

Verizon comes along with fiber and starts offering TV as well as faster speeds. Even ATT tries UVerse which doesn't seem to be doing as well. Now the pendulum swings back the other way and cable can no longer be the ONLY way to get TV via some type of wired medium.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20707013 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:50:32 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706895 moonpuppy :
said by Rick See Profile :

You seem to miss the point entirely however.
The POINT is that my connection is a STANDARD cable connection..not a top tier Fios connection.
Really? I had Comcast for 3 years in 2 different locations and NEVER got above 6MBits/s. Motorola Surfboard 4100 was the modem. Never saw Powerboost kick in and never had full upload. Called to find out what was wrong and was told repeatedly nothing was wrong, that's all you'll get.

Must be nice to work for them and get better customer service than a normal customer. :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706895 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:26:21 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706885 Dogfather : Of course cable is crapping their pants over FiOS. They're spending millions in counter advertising and lies to try and combat it. Cable ramps of speeds to the point their networks are collapsing and they're turning to traffic shaping, caps and boost gimmicks to try and match it.

Anyone who doesn't acknowledge this simple fact is either a shill, an idiot, or both.

And of course, fiberguy See Profile accuses everyone else of being what he is...an industry shill. Of course he ignores posters long histories of objectivity and ripping into providers of all ilks despite given those people thumbs up for it when it's a pro-cable or anti-telco post. He thinks such lame claims and diversions actually work.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706885 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:23:11 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706872 moonpuppy :
said by fiberguy See Profile :

BLaaa BLaaa Blaaa.. the rule of BBR, when you have no response, resort to the old cable shill post. Bravo! Take a bow.
Blah blah blah, the rule of fiberguy, when you have no response, resort to name calling. Bravo! Take a bow.

said by fiberguy See Profile :

Back to reality now.

In addition, Skeedatl, ALL of the companies are pretty much in the hole.. all are low.. some just happen to be lower than the others.

You get that big, you're going to be more exposed. FURTHER, what does comcast, cable for that matter, sell primarily?
You would think Comcast was the phone company with all the ads for phone service they put out. I get an average of 4 mailers a week begging me to subscribe to Comcast's phone service. Verizon bothers me maybe once a week.

said by fiberguy See Profile :

Ratings and satisfaction are polls. Polls are stupid.. I don't care if they showed comcast on top, I won't believe them. I measure satisfaction on income and base that also on competition available.

Telephone still has a bad rap and I stand behind my statement. AGE PLAYS LARGE! When cable first started, they were the good guys.. now phone is coming back on being the "good guys" but look at how THEY rate too.
The 2 above paragraphs are contradictory. First you don't care about polls and yet you bring up the supposed bad ratings of the phone company.

I have personally spoken to a Comcast rep in my area and their statement was, "Comcast is very worried about FIOS." The rep went on to explain that while they were concerned about the substandard contractor installing the main fiber lines (cutting Comcast's lines in the process) they were more afraid of the competition since Millenium (now Broadstream) was basically in the toilet with the same price and fewer channels.

Polls do mean something and the fact that Comcast themselves responded to them saying they needed to do better, shows that they need to do something to show they aren't like the old cable company. DirectTV seems to be showing a few commercials that take direct aim at cable's statements. ;)

said by fiberguy See Profile :

Cable, no matter how good they can do, will still always rate low. NO ONE likes to pay for TV - period. You want to get some better understanding on the numbers, they need to do a more intense study on what makes up a number.
This falls into the category of perception. Look at the airlines. With the exception of Southwest, everyone is raising their fares but in a backhanded way. The fares stay the same but now we have fuel surcharges and baggage charges. No more food or even bags of chips and peanuts for free and soon to be charged for drinks.

Now, if the cable companies want sympathy, then stop treating the customers like idiots. Tell them the rates are going up because ABC/Disney/ESPN demands more money and must carry channels. You will see the tide turn from you and against the content providers that cause the rate increases in the first place.

said by fiberguy See Profile :

The only one around here drinking the so-called Kool-aid (can anyone speak like adults here or do they need to use the cute little kiddie terms to make a point) is those that buy for-pay polls.

The only reason I'm a "shill" &*%#&Q*, is because I am not spending as much time and effort shilling for your side.

When you understand that statement, boys, you'll be better people.
Well, asking people to speak like adults and then calling them children. Hypocrisy at its finest. :uhh:

said by fiberguy See Profile :

Kool-aid, as you guys call it, works both ways. Since this is a two sided conversation with two distinct sides (and yes, you're both blinded by it) If you're not drinking the kool aid and shilling for cable, then you're doing it for phone.

I also blast cable when necessary and have.. it seems that people only pay attention when something is said that goes against THEIR beloved.
Again, if you have even bothered to look at my previous ratings, you would have seen how I blasted Verizon for its substandard DSL service when I lived in Baltimore City. I have yet to see you bash cable since your "income" depends on it.

Try again. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706872 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:20:03 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706761 Dogfather :
said by fiberguy See Profile :

.. yea yea.. and when FIOS converts over to coax, they are limited to to the 200 to 300 meg range. Your point?
Again, what is it about the cable topology that you don't understand?

It's how many channels the cable operator dedicates to HSI that is the bottleneck not the coax. The bottleneck is between the node and headend, not node and end user.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706761 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:41:51 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706758 moonpuppy :
said by fiberguy See Profile :

My Paycheck? MY PAYCHECK? I knew something stunk around here.. what you are saying is coming out of the wrong end. PLEASE tell me where my check comes from, Einstein.

Like I said in my other post, you forget that the shilling works both way. If I do see this right, and trust me, I do, you're shilling for phone right now.

Enjoy!
Wrong again but thanks for playing. I WISH I worked for the phone company but I do not though I did get rid of Comcast for TV service just last Friday when I went to FIOS for ongoing issues that Comcast can't seem to fix.

You, however, have flip flopped from not working for the cable companies to working for them. Which is it this week? At least Rick admits who he works for. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706758 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:41:14 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706732 Dogfather : 120/node? What is 120/node? FiOS isn't, cable isn't. FiOS is 32/64 (in my area it's 32) and cable here is 600-900.

And polls and surveys are stupid? Oh, okay. You would be singing a different tune if Comcast's ratings weren't in the toilet.

Cable's network topology can't support their current offerings (which is why they're having to deploy such draconian network management) and they have little hope of ever catching Verizon in capacity without a major renovation of their network. That's just a result of DOCSIS limitations.

Cable should take the tact telcos did with DSL. Drop the price. Quit trying to sell the low mileage BMW lease.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706732 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:35:39 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706400 MrSpock29 :
said by fiberguy See Profile :

Maybe it's because I've done it professionally for so long.

Care to share the rest of us how much speed can be currently pushed across the copper? and with MOCA?

It doesn't matter WHAT they CAN push.. it's what they ARE pushing.
Your whole post was dealing with what-if's. Now you say it doesn't matter what they CAN push. No need to try to bully people, it doesn't work.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706400 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:55:17 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706023 fiberguy : Um.. this system's node is up to 120 per node, so you know. Second, they can continue to split notes both physically, and virtual node splits.

Also, SDV isn't the only option. When they remove analog from the line up, they can reclaim about 2/3 of the available channels. I doubt we'll ever see SDV to begin with.

It still doesn't matter what they CAN do, NOW, it's WHAT they are doing with it that matters. 4 channels bonded, now, is 100 MB. continue to bond channels, continue to increase BW. Add in the future of Mpeg4 for video, and compression becomes even better and quality improves drastically.

Taking into consideration what's in the pipeline now, there is PLENTY of life in coax to last for years. Of the models out there for sustainability, the fiber coax system is still superior.

In case anyone here hasn't noticed, gas is over $4.00 a gallon. In CA, it's upwards to $4.70 already. This also has a MAJOR impact on what providers can spend on their networks. (Oil is currently at $138 per B and expected to hit $179 by the end of summer)

How long do people think Verizon is going to be able to push out the expense of fiber as costs continue to rise, and the available dollar to spend shrinks? Look at the cable model, capacity available with minimal upgrades,.. who do you think is going to have an easier time continuing with the next gen?

All the talk about how many homes per node, cable runs, etc. mean nothing today. To consumer, which is getting more and more cash strapped each day, isn't in a place to demand the best for less. People here often forget to take into account the real world economy when talking about the future of technology.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706023 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:15:21 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706003 fiberguy : .. yea yea.. and when FIOS converts over to coax, they are limited to to the 200 to 300 meg range. Your point?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706003 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:08:09 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20705999 fiberguy : My Paycheck? MY PAYCHECK? I knew something stunk around here.. what you are saying is coming out of the wrong end. PLEASE tell me where my check comes from, Einstein.

Like I said in my other post, you forget that the shilling works both way. If I do see this right, and trust me, I do, you're shilling for phone right now.

Enjoy!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20705999 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:06:56 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20705992 fiberguy : BLaaa BLaaa Blaaa.. the rule of BBR, when you have no response, resort to the old cable shill post. Bravo! Take a bow.

Back to reality now.

In addition, Skeedatl, ALL of the companies are pretty much in the hole.. all are low.. some just happen to be lower than the others.

You get that big, you're going to be more exposed. FURTHER, what does comcast, cable for that matter, sell primarily?

Ratings and satisfaction are polls. Polls are stupid.. I don't care if they showed comcast on top, I won't believe them. I measure satisfaction on income and base that also on competition available.

Telephone still has a bad rap and I stand behind my statement. AGE PLAYS LARGE! When cable first started, they were the good guys.. now phone is coming back on being the "good guys" but look at how THEY rate too.

Cable, no matter how good they can do, will still always rate low. NO ONE likes to pay for TV - period. You want to get some better understanding on the numbers, they need to do a more intense study on what makes up a number.

The only one around here drinking the so-called Kool-aid (can anyone speak like adults here or do they need to use the cute little kiddie terms to make a point) is those that buy for-pay polls.

The only reason I'm a "shill" &*%#&Q*, is because I am not spending as much time and effort shilling for your side.

When you understand that statement, boys, you'll be better people.

Kool-aid, as you guys call it, works both ways. Since this is a two sided conversation with two distinct sides (and yes, you're both blinded by it) If you're not drinking the kool aid and shilling for cable, then you're doing it for phone.

I also blast cable when necessary and have.. it seems that people only pay attention when something is said that goes against THEIR beloved.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20705992 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:04:57 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20705969 fiberguy : Maybe it's because I've done it professionally for so long.

Care to share the rest of us how much speed can be currently pushed across the copper? and with MOCA?

It doesn't matter WHAT they CAN push.. it's what they ARE pushing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20705969 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:57:04 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20704420 MrSpock29 :
said by fiberguy See Profile :

You clearly, as you try to dis Rick, also show how you are a bandwagon expert.

First of all, your 100/400 comparison.. really. No.. wrong.. not now.

Verizon CAN get there... sure.

Cable's 100.. sure.. You do know about channel bonding, right? Even phone does it. Splitting and combining lines and signals has been done for some time now. However, with fiber as close to the home as it is now with cable, the hard line coax is still strong, AND large enough, to carry far more than it is now. 3.0 can do up to 100mb now.. bond more channels, get more speed.

Fiber lovers think that fiber is THE only answer. However, where do you think fiber goes in any network when it reaches is termination point? Copper.

So many of you guys sit back and read headlines and act like experts. The bottom line is that both fiber AND coax are capable of pushing out speeds much higher than they do now. To sit back and claim specific limits right now only draws out a limit in one's thinking.
The point is, they are capable of 400. The rest of your post is a monologue, and is your attempt to discuss things how you want.
Guess what dude? I don't even have Fios. But I recognize a winner when I see one. So many others can't.
And the only one acting like an expert here is you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20704420 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:08:04 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702831 moonpuppy :
said by Dogfather See Profile :

It seems these 2 rarely if ever criticize their cable religion.
Can't criticize your paycheck. ;)

The problem with being objective is that you not only point out the short comings of your target but also yourself.

Verizon has billing issues. So does Comcast. Verizon has had some idiot techs. Same with Comcast. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702831 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:48:51 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702767 Dogfather : They can be cable shills, but they should be objective shills. Whether it's TWC, Comcast or Verizon, there is no such thing as a perfect company. I like FiOS but could rip Verizon all day long about overpriced POTS stuff like the $1.50 how dare you not want to be in the phonebook fee or the ever-bitchen 'you didn't use enough long distance' fee.

It seems these 2 rarely if ever criticize their cable religion. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702767 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:37:22 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702664 moonpuppy : You'll have to excuse Rick and fiberguy since both drink the Comcast Kool-Aid pretty heavily.

And as far as how Verizon treats their customers, Comcast better take a look in the mirror before they start making any customer services claims. :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702664 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:18:09 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702651 moonpuppy :
said by fiberguy See Profile :

Nice try, however, once the service hits the side of the home, and then converts to copper.. guess what kind of a system you have?

Hybrid Fiber/Coax. Anyone's system is only as strong as it's weakest point.
Well since there is less copper in a FIOS installation than a Comcast installation, FIOS still has more fiber than cable.

;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20702651 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:14:49 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20701226 Dogfather : Go look at Comcast's satisfaction ratings and tell us all who is abusing who. The IRS gets higher ratings than Comcast video services does. And Comcast's ratings are on the way down.

Even in telephony satisfaction, both AT&T and Verizon beat Comcast.

In internet services, next gen telco services U-Verse and FiOS beat ALL cable internet providers according to hundreds of DSLR reviews.

»/gbu

»www.theacsi.org/index.php?option···emid=186

»Comcast Customer Satisfaction At All Time Low]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20701226 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:49:59 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20701202 Dogfather :
said by fiberguy See Profile :

Nice try, however, once the service hits the side of the home, and then converts to copper.. guess what kind of a system you have?

Hybrid Fiber/Coax. Anyone's system is only as strong as it's weakest point.
Huh? It's not the copper itself that is HFC's limitations, hell my GigE network runs on twisted pair. And obviously there is no comparison between a 50' run of copper and a 5000' run of copper.

The problem is the DOCSIS spec and cable not dedicating enough channels (especially upstream channels) to HSI bandwidth between the node and headend. That's why they're doing SDV...to free up bandwidth so they can dedicate more channels to HSI and with DOCSIS 3 they can bond those additional channels to get higher speeds to the end users.

But even with those changes they still have to share that limited bandwith with hundreds of homes while Verizon shares 4X the DOCSIS 3 capacity with only 32-64 homes (in my area is 32).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20701202 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:42:23 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20701175 Dogfather : In these particular ads Time Warner isn't arguing availability...they're arguing performance. TWC in their ads is drawing a direct performance comparison between their HFC and FTTH and misleading customers in the process.

Meanwhile while RR is finishing upgrading to turbo/extreme tiers to 15/2, the comparable FiOS tier is already at 20/5 and for a couple of bucks more offers 20/20. The BASIC FiOS tier is currently 10/2]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20701175 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:31:06 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20701170 Dogfather :
said by maartena See Profile :

I think what he is trying to show that cable can do something with COPPER that no telco can. Telco's NEED the fiber to perform, cablecompanies don't.... not yet anyways. In 10 years they will.
No he's not, he's trying to explain away cable's lying about their network being a fiber network when it's HFC.

Meanwhile cable isn't doing stuff with last mile copper that telcos can't. You have providers like Qwest doing 20Mb over copper which TWC can only do with gimmicks like Boost and as cable rolls out DOCSIS 3, SDV, etc. for 50Mb service (eg Comcast), telcos can do bonded ADSL2+ can do the same 50Mb over copper. FTTH already does 50Mb and it's nothing for them to offer 100Mb or more over the existing network with NO upgrades.

TWC's claims of having a "fiber-fast" network are bullcrap. Their claims of "fiber without the lawn trama" are bullcrap.

To get the mediocre download speeds they get now requires draconian network management while Verizon with true FTTH rolled out 50Mb tiers without ANY traffic shaping nonsense.

TWC's upload speeds are a complete joke. When TWC rolls out 20/20 and 50/20 tiers, they can claim to have a fiber-fast and fiber without the lawn trauma network but of course by then, Verizon will just bump their tiers up again and TWC will be behind...again.

Of course it cost Verizon $21 billion to do it but that isn't really something TWC can argue in ads.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20701170 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:29:09 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700952 fiberguy : You clearly, as you try to dis Rick, also show how you are a bandwagon expert.

First of all, your 100/400 comparison.. really. No.. wrong.. not now.

Verizon CAN get there... sure.

Cable's 100.. sure.. You do know about channel bonding, right? Even phone does it. Splitting and combining lines and signals has been done for some time now. However, with fiber as close to the home as it is now with cable, the hard line coax is still strong, AND large enough, to carry far more than it is now. 3.0 can do up to 100mb now.. bond more channels, get more speed.

Fiber lovers think that fiber is THE only answer. However, where do you think fiber goes in any network when it reaches is termination point? Copper.

So many of you guys sit back and read headlines and act like experts. The bottom line is that both fiber AND coax are capable of pushing out speeds much higher than they do now. To sit back and claim specific limits right now only draws out a limit in one's thinking.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700952 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:27:45 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700943 fiberguy : You obviously YOUNG guys can worship telephone all you want, but some of us that have been around know well enough exactly how well the telephone company treats the customer and how long they abused and raped this nation at the privileged of the government.

I don't get why people are so fast and quick to defend any telephone company ESPECIALLY one such as crooked as the now Verizon. This is the only company that can, in broad day light, make millions and millions of the public's money disappear.

And.. "time to join the big boys?" What the HELL do you think Telephone is trying to do? I swear, Verizon lays a small about of Fiber and you all think that cable has to "catch up".. what you forget is that if Cable wanted to, they could EASILY bury telephone LONG before they could get any major foot hold into the business.

... "join the big boys".. where do you guys get this stuff?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700943 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:22:42 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700928 fiberguy : Nice try, however, once the service hits the side of the home, and then converts to copper.. guess what kind of a system you have?

Hybrid Fiber/Coax. Anyone's system is only as strong as it's weakest point.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700928 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:17:23 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700753 maartena :
said by swhitney2003 See Profile :

5mbps upload for the top tier? Doesn't compare to fios.
FIOS is only ONE provider. Verizon. Something that about 75% of the country does not have access to because they are AT&T who is struggling with UVerse, or BellSouth or some other Bell who have their noses in the big DSL pie still and offer LIGHTNING FAST internet of a whoppping 6 Mbps.

Cable companies can actually deliver 10 Mbps+ speeds to pretty much everyone in a major metropolis. Take the entire Los Angeles area for instance..... pretty much everyone around here can get 10/1 from RoadRunner, and it will be 15/2 by the end of the year - or so the rumor goes. Only about 5% of the Los Angeles area has access to FIOS, and only about 30% every wil, IF they actually fiber up ALL of the Verizon territory.

The rest is on AT&T or some other Bell. And if they are LUCKY (that is, they live close to a CO with UVerse) they can get 10/1, but 15/2 is impossible with copper over POTS. (And if they ever make it possible it will be for people that have a CO in their back yard).

Except for those areas that are FIOS ready, cable has the ability to deliver fast internet to the WHOLE city, not to just those that live within a certain distance of a CO....

Cable has a future yet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700753 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:24:54 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700740 maartena : I think what he is trying to show that cable can do something with COPPER that no telco can. Telco's NEED the fiber to perform, cablecompanies don't.... not yet anyways. In 10 years they will.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700740 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:17:22 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700731 maartena : It's not too far fetched actually. Sure, Verizons 45 million landlines is almost twice as much than TWC's 25 million customers, but in reality cable operators actually run fiber to the BLOCK you live on, whereas there millions of those landlines who won't see a string of fiber until they reach the local CO, which in turn.... leaves the city with that fiber ;)

If you can't get more then about 6 Mbit/s if you are 12k feet to the CO and no more then about 3 Mbit/s when you are 15 or 18k feet from the CO, it is pretty much certain there isn't a single bit of fiber between your home and the CO.

If you can get digital television in your city, it's almost guaranteed that there is fiber running less then a mile from your house, most likely a lot closer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700731 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:14:21 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699871 dvd536 :
said by Rick See Profile :

The fact of the matter is..the cable co's DO service every home with fiber optics..over a very effective network that produces speeds that the majority of Telco customers can only dream about today.
Are you kidding me? OK, i'm on cable. wheres my 20000/20000? or for that fact wheres my 10000/10000?
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699871 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:55:41 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699578 bogey780 : For the Google stumblers, Rick isn't a technician, has no technical experience, and is wrong on almost all points he just mentioned.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699578 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:47:51 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699067 anon : Really? because I have Comcast right now, once again it's the only thing where I live. I have moved 5 times in the last 2 years, always closer to work and usually to a nicer place, all 5 times I have had Comcast service, I will be the first to admit that I have seen speeds as high as 25 mbps rarely on the service, I have also seen sustained speeds as low as 600 kbps. and I currently average around 3~4 mbps with occasional dips under the 1 mbps barrier, the only time I get good speeds is if I am on very late at night. Oh and at 3 locations I have experienced terrible HD service, with frequent highly visible compression artifacts syncing issues, low frame rates with stuttering, and occasionally a signal so poor that I just end up with a blue screen. And the customer service is so bad that I refuse to call them any more I didn't even bother with video service at my new location, and as soon as I have access to an alternate provider I am kicking them to the curb.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699067 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:59:26 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698737 en102 : This is still a little better
--
Canada = Hollywood North
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698737 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:57:29 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698435 MrSpock29 :
said by Rick See Profile :

said by Dogfather See Profile :

Wow a whole 40MB and you're barely at the mid-level FiOS tier even with boost gimmicks. Let's see the end of test512.

How's yer upload speed for a 40MB file?
1500 to 2000k.

You seem to miss the point entirely however.
The POINT is that my connection is a STANDARD cable connection..not a top tier Fios connection.

I mean.if you're going to try to compare apples to apples..why not compare fios's tier with the 50,000k tier people are posting about in the comcast forum.

For comcasts standard FIBER OPTIC/Coaxial connection to be delivering the kinds of results I posted above is outstanding and demonstrates exactly what i've been saying which is comcast and the cable industry has every right to be countering these Verizon commercials by saying exactly what they are saying...which is that Cable co's have been using fiber optics for YEARS.

If anyones ad's are misleading..it's Verizons..to some extent. And that is because so much of their network isn't fios..but rather plain old twisted pair.

Comcast, tw and others however..have had a huge fiber optic network for years.

Anyways..people can judge for themselves. I think clearly however my results posted above speak for themselves.
And the cable industry is right in saying what they do.
Nice try. Verizon has NEVER said all of their network is fiber.
One point you conveniently ignore is where the fiber ends, and how important the last mile is. It is clearly the case that cable's intent is to mislead. Errors of omission or commission are still lies. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698435 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:02:59 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698416 Supafly : No seriously, let's see the end of the 512mb test. Your "results" only speak for the fact that you are BOOST-enabled, which is NOT sustainable throughput, and NOT the same as, say a 50mbps FiOS customer being able to sustain THREE TIMES your speed 100% of the time (2.26MB/sec = 18.08mbps * 3 = ~54mbps).

The point everyone here is trying to make is that the speed that Verizon has capped FiOS at are completely arbitrary. The Fiber connection is virtually limitless in the bandwidth it can provide as long as you replace the hardware at each end, and this is just the BEGINNING! Cable, on the other hand is at the point (and has been for years) of trying to figure out how to squeeze every drop out of the HFC system. HFC is perfectly adquete for the CURRENT market, but they SERIOUSLY need to look at how the marketplace will look in about 5-10 years.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698416 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:59:36 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698407 MrSpock29 :
said by ptrowski See Profile :

Just because multiple people here point to the fact that cable companies are stretching the truth doesn't make anyone here to do "damage control".

One could say that you are doing the same thing for the cable industry.

I just find it funny that cable is now using the term fiber optics in their advertising since FIOS is gaining popularity. Looks at TWC's site. They specifically mention FIOS. You don't find that odd?
I think there is an old advertising philosophy that says you shouldn't spend excessive time on your competitor's product in your ads like that. It draws more attention to the competition, and allows people to find out "what the big deal" is. If TWC realizes it, they may ask Verizon to pay for the advertising they are giving them lol]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698407 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:57:59 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698347 swhitney2003 : 50mbps tier? The $150/mo Tier? Comcast doesn't compete with fios when comparing apples to apples... and that is, no powerboost gimmicks.

5mbps upload for the top tier? Doesn't compare to fios.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698347 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:48:18 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698344 en102 : Yup - FTTH _is_ as good as it gets.. hands down.
I do applaud most Cable Co's for attempting to keep up.
Most other telco's are FTTN + VDSL or ADSL2+ on RT's.
--
Canada = Hollywood North]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698344 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:48:00 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698342 sivran :
said by Rick See Profile :

said by Dogfather See Profile :

Wow a whole 40MB and you're barely at the mid-level FiOS tier even with boost gimmicks. Let's see the end of test512.

How's yer upload speed for a 40MB file?
1500 to 2000k.

You seem to miss the point entirely however.
The POINT is that my connection is a STANDARD cable connection..not a top tier Fios connection.

I mean.if you're going to try to compare apples to apples..why not compare fios's tier with the 50,000k tier people are posting about in the comcast forum.

For comcasts standard FIBER OPTIC/Coaxial connection to be delivering the kinds of results I posted above is outstanding and demonstrates exactly what i've been saying which is comcast and the cable industry has every right to be countering these Verizon commercials by saying exactly what they are saying...which is that Cable co's have been using fiber optics for YEARS.

If anyones ad's are misleading..it's Verizons..to some extent. And that is because so much of their network isn't fios..but rather plain old twisted pair.

Comcast, tw and others however..have had a huge fiber optic network for years.

Anyways..people can judge for themselves. I think clearly however my results posted above speak for themselves.
And the cable industry is right in saying what they do.

$fontbg Results not typical.
Actual results may vary.
Screen is simulated.
Paid spokesman for Roadrunner. $Fontbg
Ahha! Found it!
--
Think outside the fox...Seamonkey]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698342 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:47:52 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698327 SilverSurfer :
said by Rick See Profile :

Comcast, tw and others however..have had a huge fiber optic network for years.

Point conceded, but that particular fiber optic network is, technically, not quite what the real fiber optic network is when one hears about FIOS, is it, Rick. You're being disingenuous and otherwise kidding yourself if you think otherwise. The only folks you're fooling with your spinjob are the ones who haven't bothered to investigate "fiber" beyond what the cableco corporate spin is. :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698327 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:44:10 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698306 Dogfather : I'm comparing TWC's claims of "fiber fast" internet to reality. As far as Comcast, FiOS is faster and cheaper with the 50Mb offering). RR services is anything but "fiber fast". It's barely mid-grade FiOS fast for the first 40MB.

And even with Boost, traffic shaping to free up traffic and all the other crap, you BARELY compare to a mid grade $53 Verizon tier that offers more than 2X your upload speed and can do it all day every day, no boost, no traffic shaping, no caps, no BS.

TWC tries to trick customers into think their network is as advanced as Verizon's new FTTH network, and it's not.

Rick, at what point do your boost speeds fall off? 80MB? 100?
Click for full size
And yes, the results really DO speak for themselves, averaging 24Mb over 3000mi while running ARD
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698306 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:40:09 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698298 mobbo : That's what I get on my FiOS 20/20 tier. Now show us your upload speed :D

Also, please take a picture of that screen once you've hit the monthly transfer CAP!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698298 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:39:07 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698286 Rick :
said by Dogfather See Profile :

Wow a whole 40MB and you're barely at the mid-level FiOS tier even with boost gimmicks. Let's see the end of test512.

How's yer upload speed for a 40MB file?
1500 to 2000k.

You seem to miss the point entirely however.
The POINT is that my connection is a STANDARD cable connection..not a top tier Fios connection.

I mean.if you're going to try to compare apples to apples..why not compare fios's tier with the 50,000k tier people are posting about in the comcast forum.

For comcasts standard FIBER OPTIC/Coaxial connection to be delivering the kinds of results I posted above is outstanding and demonstrates exactly what i've been saying which is comcast and the cable industry has every right to be countering these Verizon commercials by saying exactly what they are saying...which is that Cable co's have been using fiber optics for YEARS.

If anyones ad's are misleading..it's Verizons..to some extent. And that is because so much of their network isn't fios..but rather plain old twisted pair.

Comcast, tw and others however..have had a huge fiber optic network for years.

Anyways..people can judge for themselves. I think clearly however my results posted above speak for themselves.
And the cable industry is right in saying what they do.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698286 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:34:45 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698260 ptrowski : Just because multiple people here point to the fact that cable companies are stretching the truth doesn't make anyone here to do "damage control".

One could say that you are doing the same thing for the cable industry.

I just find it funny that cable is now using the term fiber optics in their advertising since FIOS is gaining popularity. Looks at TWC's site. They specifically mention FIOS. You don't find that odd?
--
"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698260 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:29:31 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698230 Dogfather : Wow a whole 40MB and you're barely at the mid-level FiOS tier even with boost gimmicks. Let's see the end of test512.

How's yer upload speed for a 40MB file?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698230 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:25:19 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698215 MRCUR : Your comment made me laugh a little. I was trying to think of a way to reply to Rick's ridiculous post. You have summed up my exact thoughts. Thank you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698215 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:22:12 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698198 Rick : Holly molly...I see that the Rick has posted at BBR alarms must have went off in Telco central and they've sent the crew in to try damage control.

Well folks..lets just let the numbers speak for themselves..shall we? Here you go..the results from my FIBER OPTIC/Coaxial cable connection.

22,000k + speeds..still humming along at 40Mb + files sizes.

This is BETTER than many people get even on fios today!

And the cable co's and namely comcast doesn't have a right to talk about THIS? Comcast has this virtually everywhere versus the very small footprint of Fios so far.

And this isn't even on a docsis 3.0 network yet!

I realize the pain at telco central is intense with the vast majority of your network running at dsl speeds on old twisted pair..but really. C'mon now..let's be fair to what the cable co's have achieved this last decade..Ok?
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698198 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:19:14 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698190 ptrowski :
said by Rick See Profile :

said by ptrowski See Profile :

Nice try Rick. You know they aren't technically lying, but what the cable companies have and what Verizon's FIOS is are NOT the same.

It's just cable's attempt to make people think they are getting what FIOS offers, and that is pretty much a lie.

Cable and FIOS are NOT the same, but cable would like you to think they are.
Make people THINK they're getting what fios offers?
Last I checked my CABLE speeds were running at 30,000k + on comcasts networks and I had great HDTV coming in on multiple sets.

My speeds are BETTER than many fios customers get even.
And this is on a Docsis 1.1 network..and not even the up and coming docsis 3.0 one.

Please..try to educate yourself before posting next time.

The ONLY reason Verizon is doing what they are doing..and taking a HUGE financial risk in doing so..is because the majority of their network is simply as antiquated as AT&T's is and loaded with ages old twisted pair.

The VAST majority of verizons network is still not upgraded to fios..and won't be for years.

Cable companies have every right to talk about that which they've been doing LONG before verizon ever got in the game.

And for anyone to suggest otherwise is simply wrong.
I am educated Rick. The cableads make people think they are getting fiber optic connections that FIOS offers.

FIOS offers FTTH, cable doesn't. Pretty cut and dry to me. Spin it how ever you want, you know what they are implying.
--
"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698190 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:18:26 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698157 battleop : When someone reaches a certain level of ignorance there is no possible way to reply to that person in a way that will show them just how ignorant their post is.

This is one of those posts.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698157 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:10:45 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698154 MrSpock29 :
said by Rick See Profile :

shouldn't the cable co's be able to counter Verizon's ad's?
After all, they DO have more fiber than Verizon has..and will EVER have for that matter. And, they started the rollout TEN YEARS before Verizon ever apparently thought of the word...at a cost reportedly over FIVE times what Verizon will even spend when all is said and done. (100 Billion dollars)

But you think they shouldn't be able to talk about THAT?
If anything..they've been very silent about it in relation to what Verizon has been doing in trying to spout their next generation plans.

The fact of the matter is..the cable co's DO service every home with fiber optics..over a very effective network that produces speeds that the majority of Telco customers can only dream about today.

They don't need to go the last mile because their network isn't loaded with decades old twisted pair copper meant to deliver Aunt Bee's phone calls to Andy and Barney Fife.

Fiber..and a coaxial network..is a very effective next generation network. And combined with Docsis 3.0..will be able to compete with anything out there today..and in the future.

The cable co's don't have to pretend.

They have what the Telco's can only dream about today.
So in other words, you think it's ok for the cable companies to lie?
Or did you not know yourself that they are lying?

If cable and Docsis 3.0 were so good, they wouldn't have to propose throttling plans and caps. Docsis 3.0 is not able to beat FTTH. They want 100 MBps? Ok, Fios can deliver 400.
When I had Comcast, they did not service my home with Fiber Optics. They serviced the node I was on with that, but certainly not my home. Nor anyone else's.

You also inadvertently pwned cable without realizing it. You point out that they started 10 years before Verizon. With that head start, you'd think they'd be able to have a better infrastructure and to be able to do something about competing with FTTH. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698154 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:10:09 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698137 Dogfather : Yeah, and they're running 50,000kbps on Verizon's network WITHOUT boost, WITHOUT traffic shaping, WITHOUT caps.

Your speeds aren't better than FiOS. Any FiOS customer you beat, it's 'cause they LET you by buying a cheap tier. Verizon doesn't resort to boost gimmicks, caps and traffic shaping to ramp up speeds to a level they can't support.

Even with boost, TWC customers barely reach a mid-grade FiOS tier in terms of download, and upload is no contest.

FiOS »/archive?cid=73
TWC »/archive?cid=31

All day, every day, no caps, no TS, no BS
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698137 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:07:53 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698131 kleinml : Rick, Rick, Rick,
Come on man... cable companies can't possible claim to have been using fiber as long as the Bell Companies. Bell's have been deploying fiber in their Long Haul network since the late 70's or early 80's. The Bell's invented Fiber optics. Now I have no idea who has more because I have never seen data. But with 30 some odd years of deployment I think the Bells may have that won as well.
So NO the cable companies should not Lie. They should advertise on their true strengths. Things like only one Cable point of entry, easy to split and expand the network, things like that. All of which is a bit harder with Fios because everything has to run back to the ONT. But no they should not Lie. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698131 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:06:33 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698124 Rick :
said by ptrowski See Profile :

Nice try Rick. You know they aren't technically lying, but what the cable companies have and what Verizon's FIOS is are NOT the same.

It's just cable's attempt to make people think they are getting what FIOS offers, and that is pretty much a lie.

Cable and FIOS are NOT the same, but cable would like you to think they are.
Make people THINK they're getting what fios offers?
Last I checked my CABLE speeds were running at 30,000k + on comcasts networks and I had great HDTV coming in on multiple sets.

My speeds are BETTER than many fios customers get even.
And this is on a Docsis 1.1 network..and not even the up and coming docsis 3.0 one.

Please..try to educate yourself before posting next time.

The ONLY reason Verizon is doing what they are doing..and taking a HUGE financial risk in doing so..is because the majority of their network is simply as antiquated as AT&T's is and loaded with ages old twisted pair.

The VAST majority of verizons network is still not upgraded to fios..and won't be for years.

Cable companies have every right to talk about that which they've been doing LONG before verizon ever got in the game.

And for anyone to suggest otherwise is simply wrong.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698124 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:06:02 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698118 Dogfather : Of course they're lying just like they lied in their web hog counter-advertising.

said by Time Warner Ad :
Now you can get an Internet connection that's really fast for less than you would ever expect! Start enjoying all the technology that Time Warner Cable has to offer by adding High-Speed Online.

Go fast with Standard
Our Road Runner Standard is plenty speedy at 6 Mbps— 7x faster than DSL 786k! Now that's what we call fiber-optic-fast. And at just $29.95/month for 12 months, it's easy on the wallet, too.

Or go blazing fast with Turbo!
There's fast, and then there's the lightning-quick fiber-optic speed of our Road Runner Turbo 10 Mbps— 13x faster than DSL 768k! It's also affordable, at only $39.95/month for 12 months. It's so fast, it makes DSL look like smoke signals.

Fine Print:
ALL PRODUCTS: OFFER AVAILABLE TO EXISTING RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS IN THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA SERVICEABLE AREAS. All services may not be available in all areas. Offer available to customers who add High Speed Online to their Digital Cable and/or Home Phone. Discounted service applies to the 12 month promotional period only; thereafter standard monthly fees apply. Offer is non transferable and may not be combined with other offers and/or discounts. Offers are subject to change w/out notice. Some restrictions apply. Call for more details. Offer valid for customers who haven't had a promotional offer in the past six months and/or are not in a non-pay account status. Offer expires 30 days from mailing. ©2008 Time Warner Cable, Inc. All Rights Reserved. HIGH–SPEED ONLINE: Installation fee(s) of $19.95 applies if not combined with Digital Cable and Home Phone. Not available in all areas. Actual speeds may vary. DSL speed claim is based on Road Runner's Standard 6.0Mbps download speed versus Verizon's advertised DSL 768K package. Security software is currently not available for Macintosh computers. Internet Security Suite software must be downloaded on Road Runner and registration is required. Terms and conditions of this offer are subject to change at the discretion of Road Runner and/or CA at any time. Not all Road Runner products and services are available to customers using the Microsoft® Windows Vista™ operating system.



It ain't fiber-optic fast...that is unless TWC rolled out a 50Mb/20Mb tier no one knows about.

said by More TWC lies :
Time Warner Cable, the company that was first at fast and first at fiber optics, is increasing your speed again. We’re doubling it in the new year … for no extra cost.

In the first quarter of 2007, Road Runner will be doubling the download speed for its residential customers to 10 Mbps. Our Time Warner Cable Business Class customers will experience similar increases in speed.* The same monthly price that you’ve been paying will stay the same.

Increased speed. Same price. Great deal.

We haven’t told the media yet. This is a special notice directly to you, our loyal and valued Road Runner customer. In the coming weeks, you’ll see more information about this exciting improvement in your internet service.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698118 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:04:50 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698115 digitalfreak :
said by NetAdmin See Profile :

said by Rick See Profile :

After all, they DO have more fiber than Verizon has..and will EVER have for that matter.
Wow, just wow... Talk about making $hit up.
Rick has a problem with reality as far as Cable is concerned. Kinda like Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field, only turned inside out...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698115 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:03:50 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698080 a333 : Huh? Telcos have been using fiber since the late 60's/early 70's. Where've you been Rick?
Their current network has had more fiber than all the cable MSO fiber put together and strung end-to-end. Sure, they may not have FTTN just YET, but ultimately they will crush cable. For the last few years, telcos have resorted to xDSL to provide the apparently meager data rates they provide today. However, remember that telcos like ATT and VZ have been in the data business WAY longer than MSO's. Remember ISDN? T1/T3? Dialup? Hey guys, GSM/CDMA/POTS is data as well, in case you haven't noticed. And all that has been passing through, that's right.. telco fiber backbone networks. Even make international calls? Telco fiber again. Telcos were smart. They built their networks from the inside out and are now going to have the last laugh. Cable has enjoyed a smooth ride for the last decade, thanks to the marginal advantages of coax, but the party's over, and it's time to join the big boys.....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698080 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:55:27 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698054 NetAdmin :
said by Rick See Profile :

After all, they DO have more fiber than Verizon has..and will EVER have for that matter.
Wow, just wow... Talk about making $hit up.
--
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Over ten plus years of carrying The Clue Bat...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698054 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:50:26 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698012 DS : All cable companies and nearly all phone companies in North America only have FTTN (Fiber to the node) and not FTTH (Fiber to the home).

Hell not even all area's have DSL with FTTN and still run directly from a C.O. and not a street corner.

Cable companies have more Fiber then a wide spread Phone Company, I don't think so...

Didn't you know POTS exists today via fiber lines of all sizes and quanities.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698012 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:43:07 EDT Re: Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697979 ptrowski : Nice try Rick. You know they aren't technically lying, but what the cable companies have and what Verizon's FIOS is are NOT the same.

It's just cable's attempt to make people think they are getting what FIOS offers, and that is pretty much a lie.

Cable and FIOS are NOT the same, but cable would like you to think they are.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697979 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:35:15 EDT Why on Earth... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697927 Rick : shouldn't the cable co's be able to counter Verizon's ad's?
After all, they DO have more fiber than Verizon has..and will EVER have for that matter. And, they started the rollout TEN YEARS before Verizon ever apparently thought of the word...at a cost reportedly over FIVE times what Verizon will even spend when all is said and done. (100 Billion dollars)

But you think they shouldn't be able to talk about THAT?
If anything..they've been very silent about it in relation to what Verizon has been doing in trying to spout their next generation plans.

The fact of the matter is..the cable co's DO service every home with fiber optics..over a very effective network that produces speeds that the majority of Telco customers can only dream about today.

They don't need to go the last mile because their network isn't loaded with decades old twisted pair copper meant to deliver Aunt Bee's phone calls to Andy and Barney Fife.

Fiber..and a coaxial network..is a very effective next generation network. And combined with Docsis 3.0..will be able to compete with anything out there today..and in the future.

The cable co's don't have to pretend.

They have what the Telco's can only dream about today.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697927 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:26:39 EDT