Re: Filibusters - our last remaining hope in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20699292 en Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:56:28 EDT Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:56:28 EDT Re: 1st Senate vote on bill indicates ultimate passage http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700853 JakCrow :
said by S_engineer See Profile :

I see...authoritarianism is only "good" where you see fit!~

Maybe off topic...but it highlights the hypocracy of your statement.
No. It highlights you trying to derail the topic train. Not that it wasn't coming off the tracks already, but still.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700853 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:32:40 EDT Re: 1st Senate vote on bill indicates ultimate passage http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700353 jhboricua : Something looks wrong here...

These are the Senators that are weak on defending Americans from terrorist. They are also the most right wing losers in the Senate. And to my great disgust, 2 are from MN:
quote:

Akaka (D-HI)
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Inouye (D-HI)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCaskill (D-MO)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Tester (D-MT)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wicker (R-MS)
There, fixed it for you.
--
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA *]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20700353 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:50:51 EDT Re: 1st Senate vote on bill indicates ultimate passage http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699690 S_engineer : I see...authoritarianism is only "good" where you see fit!~

Maybe off topic...but it highlights the hypocracy of your statement.
--
Next on Maury Povich's "Wheel-O-Dad", Katrina chooses between 80 potential fathers!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699690 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:12:49 EDT Re: 1st Senate vote on bill indicates ultimate passage http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699522 fatness :
said by S_engineer See Profile :

And why is "authoritarianism" good when it comes to health care and education?
Nice topic shift.
--
Female monkeys often utter loud, distinctive calls before, during or after sex..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699522 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:35:41 EDT Re: 1st Senate vote on bill indicates ultimate passage http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699387 JakCrow :
said by S_engineer See Profile :

kind of like the hyperbole and empty rhetoric changed the make-up of congress in 2006. What are the accomplishments of the current congress?

And why is "authoritarianism" good when it comes to health care and education?

Splits both ways slick!
And irrelevant to the topic.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699387 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:02:02 EDT Re: 1st Senate vote on bill indicates ultimate passage http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699372 S_engineer : kind of like the hyperbole and empty rhetoric changed the make-up of congress in 2006. What are the accomplishments of the current congress?

And why is "authoritarianism" good when it comes to health care and education?

Splits both ways slick!
--
Next on Maury Povich's "Wheel-O-Dad", Katrina chooses between 80 potential fathers!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699372 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:58:50 EDT Re: 1st Senate vote on bill indicates ultimate passage http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699320 vpoko :
said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

These are the Senators that are weak on defending America from terrorists.
And I bet they hate children, puppies, and ice cream!

Could TK Junk Mail be Stephen Colbert (in character)?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699320 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:48:44 EDT Re: 1st Senate vote on bill indicates ultimate passage http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699309 JakCrow :
said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

»news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080625/ap_···eillance
An electronic surveillance bill has cleared an important hurdle in the Senate. A test vote on the measure Wednesday won the support of 80 senators who want to begin debate. Only 15 senators tried to kill the bill by blocking the debate.

The Senate is expected to vote on final passage by late Thursday. The House approved the bill last week.
Here is how they voted:
»senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_···position
A NO vote meant they tried to kill the bill.

These are the Senators that are weak on defending America from terrorists. They are also the most left wing losers in the Senate. And to my great disgust, 2 are from NJ:
Biden (D-DE)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin (D-IA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Wyden (D-OR)
The great hope for the Democrats(Obama) in Nov threw his support to passage of the FISA bill. »blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trai···tio.html

Like this kind of hyperbole and empty rhetoric. The moral of the story is authoritarianism "good!", Bill of Rights "bad!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699309 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:46:22 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699302 JakCrow :
said by wierdo See Profile :

If it were that clear cut, the defendants could have asked for and gotten summary judgement in their favor. As a matter of law, there would be no way for the plaintiffs to prevail. Apparently either the telco attorneys suck (unlikely) or there is more to this than you are willing to see, as it does not fit your preconceived position.

I do have to give you some credit, though. Unlike TK Junk Mail, you at least engage in discussion, rather than hit and run. I respect that, even though I have no respect whatsoever for your position.
Wait until he starts throwing around the hyperbole and empty rhetoric.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699302 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:44:54 EDT Re: Filibusters - our last remaining hope http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699292 S_engineer :
said by lordofwhee See Profile :

Agreed. It allows a bit of sanity to return to a government largely run by corporations with millions of dollars to give away in "campaign contributions".

"You too can own your own US senator for the low, low price of 1.7 million dollars a year!"
are you speaking of the telcos...or dodd himself who received sweetheart deals from countrywide.
»www.portfolio.com/news-markets/t···-Scandal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699292 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:42:57 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699200 boober321 : Way to go Senator Feingold! He's the most reputable and honest person in the Senate. He voted no on the Iraq war, and he was the ONLY senator that didn't give Bush a free pass on his Wipe You Ass with the Constitution Act... er I mean Patriot Act...

Makes me glad I supported him for re-election, and will continue to do so.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699200 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:24:32 EDT 1st Senate vote on bill indicates ultimate passage http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699141 GOLFnSUN : »news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080625/ap_···eillance
An electronic surveillance bill has cleared an important hurdle in the Senate. A test vote on the measure Wednesday won the support of 80 senators who want to begin debate. Only 15 senators tried to kill the bill by blocking the debate.

The Senate is expected to vote on final passage by late Thursday. The House approved the bill last week.
Here is how they voted:
»senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_···position
A NO vote meant they tried to kill the bill.

These are the Senators that are weak on defending America from terrorists. They are also the most left wing losers in the Senate. And to my great disgust, 2 are from NJ:
Biden (D-DE)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin (D-IA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Wyden (D-OR)
The great hope for the Democrats(Obama) in Nov threw his support to passage of the FISA bill. »blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trai···tio.html

--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699141 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:14:30 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699096 amigo_boy :
said by wierdo See Profile :

If it were that clear cut, the defendants could have asked for and gotten summary judgement in their favor.
Initially the government tried to quash the suits by claiming state secrets. The problem was they'd already discussed the program on Sunday Morning pundit shows.

Someone suggested earlier in this thread that the "compromise" may be an intentional plan to trap the President. That sounds plausible to me. The administration didn't want any of this coming to light. And, it seems "someone" doesn't want the telcos to do exactly what you suggest they could have done (ask for dismissal by showing their certification letters).

The compromise would force the issue. And, it would also force them to reveal whether they were operating under 2702 (belief of danger). What if the spooks disclosed to the telcos various details of attacks foiled, religious nuts captured, etc? To claim 2702, the telco would have to disclose all that. The compromise would force them to say they were operating without certification, but with "belief."

said by wierdo See Profile :

I do have to give you some credit, though. Unlike TK Junk Mail, you at least engage in discussion, rather than hit and run. I respect that, even though I have no respect whatsoever for your position.
Thanks. That means a lot to me -- coming from a self-styled freedom fighter. ;)

EDIT: The above theory would also explain why 2702 was modified in 2006 to reduce "reasonable belief" of "imminent danger" to merely "good faith belief" of "danger."

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699096 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:06:03 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699040 wierdo :
said by amigo_boy See Profile :

said by vpoko See Profile :

18 USC 2511 shields the carriers from criminal prosecution for disclosing a private communication.
Did you even bother reading it?

No cause of action shall lie in any court against any provider of wire or electronic communication service, its officers, employees, or agents, landlord, custodian, or other specified person for providing information, facilities, or assistance in accordance with the terms of a court order or certification under this chapter
Mark
If it were that clear cut, the defendants could have asked for and gotten summary judgement in their favor. As a matter of law, there would be no way for the plaintiffs to prevail. Apparently either the telco attorneys suck (unlikely) or there is more to this than you are willing to see, as it does not fit your preconceived position.

I do have to give you some credit, though. Unlike TK Junk Mail, you at least engage in discussion, rather than hit and run. I respect that, even though I have no respect whatsoever for your position.
--
It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20699040 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:55:12 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698952 amigo_boy :
said by vpoko See Profile :

18 USC 2511 shields the carriers from criminal prosecution for disclosing a private communication.
Did you even bother reading it?

No cause of action shall lie in any court against any provider of wire or electronic communication service, its officers, employees, or agents, landlord, custodian, or other specified person for providing information, facilities, or assistance in accordance with the terms of a court order or certification under this chapter
Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698952 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:39:40 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698849 vpoko : 18 USC 2511 shields the carriers from criminal prosecution for disclosing a private communication. It doesn't shield the phone companies in civil court from their contractual obligations with their customers to protect information unless disclosure is required by a court order.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698849 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:18:51 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698819 vpoko : I agree, but did you mean to direct that to me? I was stating my support for filibusters.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698819 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:13:36 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698777 nixen :
said by JakCrow See Profile :

And the American people do not want this legislation.

On a side note, in regards to the government wiretapping Americans


"When the Government tells you to do something, I think you all recognize, uh, that that is something that you need to do."

republican rep Kit Bonds. I think he's in the wrong country.
Any time the government tells you to do something or that you NEED to do something, it's generally a good indication that you should be highly suspect of the need or the wisdom of doing that thing...
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698777 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:05:26 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698585 JakCrow : And the American people do not want this legislation.

On a side note, in regards to the government wiretapping Americans


"When the Government tells you to do something, I think you all recognize, uh, that that is something that you need to do."

republican rep Kit Bonds. I think he's in the wrong country.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698585 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:30:05 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698482 nixen :
said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

I wish the Senate would work like the House and drop this antiquated mechanism of foot-dragging and thwarting of the will of the majority. It allows a very small minority of legislators to deny a free and open vote on an issue.
"Will of the majority"? Which "majority" would that be? Would that be the majority of the lobbyists? The majority of the bought-and-paid-for legislators? Or the majority of the American citizenry?
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698482 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:10:25 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698471 amigo_boy :
said by KoolMoe See Profile :

They do not have the authority, IMO, to give any entity such a waiver.
Sure, if you keep ignoring 18 USC 2511.

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698471 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:08:08 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698439 highhatsize : Dear vpoko,

Folks forget that until 1913, U.S. senators were elected by the legislatures of each state. The 17th Amendment changed that. The reason for the amendment was that most of the senators were millionaires. They had simply bought their office from the legislatures. That has changed in that now most senators owe their office to their campaign contributors. Since the richest folks in the United States are the corporations, (constructive persons), they owe them to corporate boards of directors.

However, the effect of corporate election of senators is obvious in corporations' current activity. They do as they please without fear of government sanction. The "class action" was born of government's failure to protect citizens from corporate avarice.

So, since corporations control the senate, if one is not a corporation, its a good thing that the filibuster still exists.
--
Cordially,

SANFRANSON]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698439 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:03:17 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698400 KoolMoe : Your claim has been refuted a few times on this site yet you constantly repeat it. Learning much from this administration!

However, I'm not as upset with this bill as I was with past ones. I agree, in principle, that any entity will have a tough time refuting the FedGov's request in such situations. If they have a signed statement for the administration saying they "won't get in trouble", maybe they get a pass.

BUT that means that this administration DAMN WELL better sit for their crimes. They do not have the authority, IMO, to give any entity such a waiver.
KM]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20698400 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:56:11 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697894 amigo_boy :
said by jt45 :

they did do something wrong. they were wire tapping without a warrent.
You need to stop listening to the mind-numbing chants from EFF. The law provides for telcos to hand over data to the government with very minimal requirements. 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(a)(ii)(B) permits it merely if the AG certifies that a warrant isn't necessary. U.S.C. 2702(a)(3) & (c) also allows it, and was amended in 2006 to reduce "reasonable belief" of "imminent danger" to merely "good faith belief" of "danger" (not imminent).

The only thing this "compromise" does is restate 2511. If you guys don't like the law, get it changed.

See: »www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html···00-.html
»www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html···00-.html

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697894 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:20:22 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697843 EPS : Would your opinion be different if they were filibustering a bill that would repeal a hypothetical pre-existing telco immunity?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697843 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:09:02 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697675 vpoko : You're either lying or just very wrong.

Wiretaps have required warrants since the Supreme Court's Olmstead v. United States decision in 1928.
Here is the decision: »caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/g···nvol=438

Even the DOJ admits as much in their legal briefs:
»www.usdoj.gov/osg/briefs/2007/2p···rep.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697675 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:35:20 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697636 bent : Care to expound?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697636 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:28:35 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697534 FAQFixer : Warrants are never used to tap any communications. Warrantless Wiretaps" is a silly buzz phrase created by the press that works well on the uneducated masses. It obviously worked as intended. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697534 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:06:48 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697445 Corydon : And although it ought to be obvious to anyone who believes in freedom, here's a flagrant example of how your taxpayer dollars get spent when the government has unfettered access to spy on its citizens. You get petty functionaries like Hoover digging for dirt on Americans (and wasting taxpayer dollars and government resources—hear that conservatives?) just because they don't like what they say.

»www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/···_4207013

One quote, from a satirical piece Buchwald wrote in the '60s really stands out:

Buchwald reappeared on the bureau’s radar in 1961 when, in a satirical column, he claimed to have uncovered the “Orlov Plan.” Buchwald often created fictitious characters, and in this column said Soviet agent Serge Orlov revealed a plan to cripple the United States by using right-wing anti-communist groups to sow seeds of distrust in the nation.

“When I proposed the plan in Moscow the Kremlin thought I was crazy. But they figured they had nothing to lose. Well, you can see the results for yourself. The seeds of doubt about America are being planted by their own people and we’ve been making more progress in wrecking the U.S. Constitution in the last few years than my predecessors have been able to do since the Revolution,” Buchwald quoted “Orlov” as saying.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
--
"Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier, or not having been at sea."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697445 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:52:30 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697343 ackman : and the point most often left out is that they may have been doing it prior to 9/11/01, which defeats the argument that it was done to keep us safe after the attack. If big corporations didn't wield so much power these days, then I would probably lean toward letting them off the hook. To hold them liable is like going after the drug user instead of the pusher. But with corporate power and abuse the way it is today, and the clear shift into fascism, I have less problem with leaving the complicit telecoms on the hook. Qwest said "no", the others could have also. But, then again, their CEOs would have also ended up in federal prison if they didn't cave, so what are you gonna do?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697343 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:32:30 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697301 Lee GWB :
said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

I wish the Senate would work like the House and drop this antiquated mechanism of foot-dragging and thwarting of the will of the majority. It allows a very small minority of legislators to deny a free and open vote on an issue.
"Free and Open vote" Excuse me ... Is was Costly!!!, my freedom and your freedom PLUS alot of cold hard cash from the Telcos.. I for one applaud it!
Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697301 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:23:31 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697105 JakCrow : What is a "John Edwards want-t-be"?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697105 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:50:31 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697061 fatness :
said by KoolMoe See Profile :

It will be...funny to see TK change his tune on filibusters if Obama is elected and Congress retains or increases its Democrat majority!
KM
A lot of people are going to do 180 degree turns in their views if the next president is from the other party. It will be fun to watch. :)
said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

I wish the Senate would work like the House and drop this antiquated mechanism of foot-dragging and thwarting of the will of the majority. It allows a very small minority of legislators to deny a free and open vote on an issue.
Um, that's exactly what they're for, to avoid knee-jerk pandering.
--
Female monkeys often utter loud, distinctive calls before, during or after sex..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20697061 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:43:10 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696951 bent : When the guys in black suits show up saying "tap that line" you're supposed to say "wheres your warrant?" You didn't, and now your bosses are in deep shit.
--
»www.lp.org/issues/family-budget

"That government is best which governs least" - Thoreau]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696951 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:25:20 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696909 anon : When the guys in black suits showed up and said tap that line -we did, I don't know what went on at exec lvl of company but in the trenches you don't ask questions with those guys.
NO worries if you did nothing wrong ?? that won't stop a John Edwards want-t-be from bring suit in the hope of a big settlement.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696909 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:17:44 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696904 JakCrow :
said by KoolMoe See Profile :

It will be...funny to see TK change his tune on filibusters if Obama is elected and Congress retains or increases its Democrat majority!
KM
Like I've said, as long as it's their team breaking the law, everything is OK.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696904 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:16:36 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696891 deadzoned : Hey, I was trying to be ironic and sassy! :)

Plain and simple though, as you said - they (meaning the current administration and the telecoms) did something wrong by doing wiretaps without warrants. They BROKE THE LAW basically.

As it has already been mentioned - the way that Congress seems to vote depends mostly on who is paying them at the time. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696891 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:13:44 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696747 DataRiker :
said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

I wish the Senate would work like the House and drop this antiquated mechanism of foot-dragging and thwarting of the will of the majority. It allows a very small minority of legislators to deny a free and open vote on an issue.
Wow...just wow. You must have been sleeping through your courses on civics and/or political science. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696747 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:53:02 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696665 DrStrange : The best way to deal with astroturf is to out the people responsible along with their employers. If you or I [or anyone else] discover this information, with sufficient supporting evidence, the information could probably be submitted to DSLR as a news item. Then the trolls could comment in our thread about longtime poster XYZISGREAT [not intended to resemble any posting handle, 'living' or 'dead'] being outed as a shill for XYZCo [not intended to resemble any corporate name, 'living' or 'dead'].

To return to the original topic, I think that any legislator who votes for telecom immunity is violating his or her oath of office and should be summarily removed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696665 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:32:03 EDT Re: Filibusters - our last remaining hope http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696615 en102 : Time to get rid of the cookie jar.
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Canada = Hollywood North]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696615 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:19:32 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696516 anon : they did do something wrong. they were wire tapping without a warrent. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696516 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:18:19 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696582 Corydon :
said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

I wish the Senate would work like the House and drop this antiquated mechanism of foot-dragging and thwarting of the will of the majority. It allows a very small minority of legislators to deny a free and open vote on an issue.
If you can't convince 218 house members and 60 senators (and 1 President) that your legislation is a good idea, maybe you ought to take it back to the drawing board.

Personally, I'd like to see the supermajority raised even higher. It would give legislators less opportunity to cause trouble like they are with this shameful trampling of the Constitution and corporate giveaway.
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"Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier, or not having been at sea."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696582 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:13:45 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696570 pabster : Immunity equals dollars.

Friends saving friends from huge losses.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696570 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:12:25 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696494 KoolMoe : It will be...funny to see TK change his tune on filibusters if Obama is elected and Congress retains or increases its Democrat majority!
KM]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696494 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:57:48 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696390 digitalfreak :
said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

I wish the Senate would work like the House and drop this antiquated mechanism of foot-dragging and thwarting of the will of the majority. It allows a very small minority of legislators to deny a free and open vote on an issue.
Of course your opinion would be totally different if you weren't on the side of the telcos.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696390 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:38:50 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696300 hpguru : I wish astroturfing were a felony. I guess that's too much to wish for. :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696300 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:24:56 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696133 wierdo :
said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

I wish the Senate would work like the House and drop this antiquated mechanism of foot-dragging and thwarting of the will of the majority. It allows a very small minority of legislators to deny a free and open vote on an issue.
Given that it only takes 60 votes for cloture now, it's fair to say that if it's something important, a filibuster will be broken.

I think it was better back in the days when it took a supermajority to force cloture and there had to be continuous debate. It made for much better TV, and since it was impossible for the Senate to do any business at all with a filibuster ongoing, it was really and truly a weapon of last resort.

Either way, you're off the mark. If nothing else, the Senate rules are far superior in that they make it much harder to ram through bills with little to no discussion. It can obviously still happen, but it's not like the House where the leadership's word may as well be God.

In this particular case, I can be fairly certain that you hold the opinion you posted only because you're a shill for the immunity crowd.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696133 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:50:44 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696069 deadzoned : Why is the Administration and the Telecos pushing so hard for this "Immunity"? If neither did anything wrong why worry?

Money? I don't seriously believe that it would be a problem ESPECIALLY if they have done nothing wrong.

The way they are acting though - it almost seems like they are trying to cover something up... almost as if, they did something wrong and don't want it to become public. Weird that. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696069 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:38:09 EDT Re: Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696006 vpoko : You're ignoring that the Senate was meant to be a slower, more deliberative body than the populist House. They're different for a good reason.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20696006 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:26:00 EDT Re: Filibusters - our last remaining hope http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20695908 lordofwhee : Agreed. It allows a bit of sanity to return to a government largely run by corporations with millions of dollars to give away in "campaign contributions".

"You too can own your own US senator for the low, low price of 1.7 million dollars a year!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20695908 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:01:57 EDT Re: Filibusters - our last remaining hope http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20695904 pabster : The problem is that the Senate has their hands in the cookie jar with everyone else. They're bought and paid for.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20695904 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:01:06 EDT Filibusters - our last remaining hope http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20695888 mlundin : I wish the Senate would filibuster more so that fewer stupid ideas like this one get mindlessly pushed after a bunch of corporate donations.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20695888 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:57:18 EDT Filibusters - a mechanism that has outlived its usefulness http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20695863 GOLFnSUN : I wish the Senate would work like the House and drop this antiquated mechanism of foot-dragging and thwarting of the will of the majority. It allows a very small minority of legislators to deny a free and open vote on an issue.
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