Naysayers on citywide WiFi should be listened to in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20713016 en Sun, 06 Dec 2009 04:05:33 EDT Sun, 06 Dec 2009 04:05:33 EDT Re: Naysayers on citywide WiFi should be listened to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20719101 dagg : ya... the ones that we used were 3500 each for the AP and 350 for the client side units.

very not cheap]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20719101 Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:21:37 EDT Re: Naysayers on citywide WiFi should be listened to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20716679 hottboiinnc : The equipment is NOT dirt cheap. Have you ever priced a Troops AP? they're in the thousands for ONE AP. That's not including the software or any cables to hook it up to the power. Troops seen this and ran with the idea. I'm sure since they're still private they'll be taking this money and running all the way to HSBC and opening up an off shore back account somewhere.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20716679 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:21:21 EDT Re: Naysayers on citywide WiFi should be listened to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20715319 dagg : having worked on the failed Tempe AZ mesh, I can say the following:
"THIS!"

Tempe was perhaps one of the most favorable places I have seen to do this kind of stuff and yet it still failed for this very reason.
the AP density required double what they had in the initial bid and still left dark areas.
having been on the provider side in two failed markets (tempe and sacramento which was killed before it was started) i can say that municipalities have no business being in the business of providing bleeding edge technologies (which this application of wireless i still consider to be bleeding edge)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20715319 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 06:55:48 EDT Re: Naysayers on citywide WiFi should be listened to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20715198 KrK :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

Those who point out this inevitable FACT at the beginning are called obstructionist; incumbent flacks; naysayers; lacking public spirit; etc. It is just too bad they aren't listened too at the beginning before that $70 million is pissed down the drain.
The 70 million figure is the estimated costs to bring the network to completion, in three phases.

The 70 million hasn't all been spent--- the project has completed phase one only, but then the private investors financing fell through bringing a halt to the continuing build out and Phase 2.

Basically, the project hasn't run into any un-expected cost over-runs or mismanagement--- it's the economic conditions have changed and the private partners were unable to fulfill their end of the deal, halting the network. The project also uses no tax $$$ to pay for it.

As they have said, they are only a few million away from having scaled back but operational network.... But now the whole project is in jeopardy due to the failure of businesses to secure the financing to complete their contractual obligations. This isn't a case of some Government screwing up, if anything, it's an example of private enterprise dropping the ball....
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20715198 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 04:26:11 EDT Re: Naysayers on citywide WiFi should be listened to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20714402 tshirt :
said by knightmb See Profile :

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

bring up Google Earth, map out some basics of how things should be setup and then wonder where the other 95% of the quote is going? Why does it take so much for the equipment when it's so dang dirt cheap? Where is all the money going? Are they paying every one who works on the project a $1 million year salary?
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That's the problem, any jackass thinks they can plan this (via Goog earth or other ) and if the world was flat, that MIGHT work.
In reality, waveform mapping (and TESTING) may not conform to the physical landforms, or the streeview. There is Theory and there are studies (surveys) to confirm said theory .
(the FCC use to see this as a Primary mission)
A realistic bidder would bid double their estimate (plus) but those bids are ALWAYS to high.
Those with "Hype", get the low bid, ask for more, and the project fails.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20714402 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:25:14 EDT Re: Naysayers on citywide WiFi should be listened to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20713788 DaveNJ : This is what i dont understand, okay a city builds a wifi system i am okay with that. But there is no plans for "sustainability" the hallmark of liberal words. The reasonable thing to do is have corporation sponsor with ad injection, or some type of advertising. Otherwise it will go under just like every other muni wifi.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20713788 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:05:16 EDT Re: Naysayers on citywide WiFi should be listened to http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20713257 knightmb :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

People who support the project say it will take less than $6 million to remedy the current problems
And this is why projects like this are often derided. They start with great hopes and a somewhat reasonable budget. But the costs ALWAYS escalate and keep on escalating from the low-ball figure quoted to get initial approvals.

Those who point out this inevitable FACT at the beginning are called obstructionist; incumbent flacks; naysayers; lacking public spirit; etc. It is just too bad they aren't listened too at the beginning before that $70 million is pissed down the drain.
That and the logistics of this projects. I need to get a second job as a consultant for this "large wi-fi" projects because after looking over a few failed ones, I always wonder where all the money went? They quote millions of dollars to get started, you bring up Google Earth, map out some basics of how things should be setup and then wonder where the other 95% of the quote is going? Why does it take so much for the equipment when it's so dang dirt cheap? Where is all the money going? Are they paying every one who works on the project a $1 million year salary?

I think it's just technical people taking advantage of non-technical people that must make the decisions is all I see in nearly every failed large scale wi-fi project. And of course, no one is held accountable, which I imagine part of the deal. Build it or we will sue your company. But so what, doesn't really do anything to the people that worked for that company and made off with millions?
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People who support the project say it will take less than $6 million to remedy the current problems
And this is why projects like this are often derided. They start with great hopes and a somewhat reasonable budget. But the costs ALWAYS escalate and keep on escalating from the low-ball figure quoted to get initial approvals.

Those who point out this inevitable FACT at the beginning are called obstructionist; incumbent flacks; naysayers; lacking public spirit; etc. It is just too bad they aren't listened too at the beginning before that $70 million is pissed down the drain.
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