Re: Centurytel drops NebuAd in CenturyTel http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20714791 en Thu, 03 Dec 2009 06:52:30 EDT Thu, 03 Dec 2009 06:52:30 EDT Re: Centurytel drops NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20731147 seagreen : Well, I got the email today from CTel:

said by email :
CenturyTel is not currently using online behavioral advertising tools in any of its markets, and we are delaying our plans to move forward with the deployment of online behavioral advertising services - either through NebuAd or any other vendor - at this time. CenturyTel is delaying its implementation plans so that Congress can spend additional time addressing the privacy issues and policies associated with online behavioral advertising.


This is, in no way, particularly reassuring. They clearly are not renouncing the concept. I believe the company suits continue to look at this potential revenue stream with great longing and that our privacy will once again be for sale once they figure out a way to implement this scheme in a way that won't come back to bite them legally.

edit to add: It's also clear that NebuAd isn't giving up and will be looking at ways to "educate" our lawmakers and privacy advocates. NebuAD Responds To ISP Backlash. In other words, they'll throw some money around where they think it will do them some good.

What is particularly telling is that they are not simply going to an "opt-in" setup which would likely fail spectacularly. It continues to be an "opt-out" scenario which clearly they assume the average person connecting to the Internet will not do.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20731147 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 11:39:36 EDT Re: Centurytel drops NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20718520 GeekJedi : Yeah, but you really can't compare the two...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20718520 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:57:26 EDT Re: Centurytel drops NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20718450 funchords : That's fine, but -- especially in the TelCo world -- there's stupidity and there's criminal wiretapping.

I've checked 18 USC 2511 and I can't find the Stupidity defense. :) :D :o ;) :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20718450 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:43:06 EDT Re: Centurytel drops NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20717396 GeekJedi : I understand, but to quote Hanlon:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

I don't think the people involved thought for a minute that what they were doing was nefarious. They simply were offered a way to potentially generate a new revenue stream. For companies, it's easy to see things the way you want to see them when there is money involved.

Believe me, I'm not defending them, but I do understand how big business works. Many times, the "evil plot" was simply hatched by some middle manager who doesn't know any better.
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The goal of the broadcast engineer is to get all the meters on the transmitter to go as far to the right as possible!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20717396 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:36:33 EDT Re: Centurytel drops NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20716953 funchords : Your skepticism is healthy -- keep it.

That said, corporations don't admit that they were wrong. Something being suspended indefinitely is probably the best we're ever going to get from Charter, CenturyTel, or Embarq.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20716953 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:43:24 EDT Re: Centurytel drops NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20716875 seagreen : I guess I'm just skeptical because, (to me), any company who has once shown their willingness to engage in nefarious behavior will likely do so again.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20716875 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:23:18 EDT Re: Centurytel drops NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20716189 GeekJedi : Sounds to me like they've given it up. Seeing as they're telling anyone who asks as much, and changing their privacy policy is pretty concrete proof.

If they were simply waiting on congress, why go through the trouble of changing anything? It would be much better from a PR standpoint to say nothing and continue on as usual. That way, if they decide to actually continue, they wouldn't have to tip their hand, since the wording would already be there. It seems to me that they realize that it isn't going anywhere, and instead of saying "oops" they're using this as an out - "delaying" it forever, essentially.

It makes little sense to go as far as to openly say they aren't going to do it *and* change their privacy policy to reflect that, only to flip-flop down the road.
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The goal of the broadcast engineer is to get all the meters on the transmitter to go as far to the right as possible!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20716189 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:00:20 EDT Re: Centurytel drops NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20715706 seagreen :
said by GeekJedi See Profile :

The proof is there - NebuAd is history.
I think that that conclusion is premature, at best. They apparently are waiting to see which way the congressional winds are blowing before proceeding. No where do they state that they figured out it was a really bad idea to be spying on their customers. :huh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20715706 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:39:35 EDT Re: Centurytel drops NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20714931 GeekJedi :
said by BigVe See Profile :

I am a Centurytel subsciber with 2 accounts and i have not seen ANY email from them even slightly mentioning any changes either way so i still assume that they use NebuAd or something similar.The change in Privacy Policy don't mean nothing.Besides, if you read a little closer you will find that Nothing is really changed what it goes for 'spying' on your browsing habits.Spying is 1 thing but using a place snooping around that is worse than a Trojan.To bad i don't have any other choice for ISP or i would drop them really fast.
Don't assume...it's dangerous.

Anyway, they won't be sending you anything, because you didn't ask them to. The proof is there - NebuAd is history.
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The goal of the broadcast engineer is to get all the meters on the transmitter to go as far to the right as possible!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20714931 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 01:28:22 EDT Re: Centurytel drops NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20714791 funchords : Here is the text that they appear to be sending to people who write in to ask about NebuAd:

CenturyTel is not currently using online behavioral advertising tools in any of its markets, and we are delaying our plans to move forward with the deployment of online behavioral advertising services - either through NebuAd or any other vendor - at this time. CenturyTel is delaying its implementation plans so that Congress can spend additional time addressing the privacy issues and policies associated with online behavioral advertising.

CenturyTel highly values our customers' personal privacy, and we are committed to protecting our customers' personal information. More detailed information about CenturyTel's data collection and use practices can be obtained by reviewing our Privacy Policy at »www.centurytel.com/Pages/PrivacyPolicy/.

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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20714791 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 00:36:01 EDT Re: Centurytel drops NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20713821 BigVe :
said by funchords See Profile :

I'm happy to report that CenturyTel has dropped NebuAd. In a private email to me from a CenturyTel subscriber, the company told him today that it is no longer using NebuAd or any other Behavioral Targeting service.

The subscriber also observed, and I have confirmed, that the paragraph mentioning the service and the links to Opt Out of it, have been removed from CenturyTel's Privacy Policy page. (pdf files attached for historical reference)

--Robb
I am a Centurytel subsciber with 2 accounts and i have not seen ANY email from them even slightly mentioning any changes either way so i still assume that they use NebuAd or something similar.The change in Privacy Policy don't mean nothing.Besides, if you read a little closer you will find that Nothing is really changed what it goes for 'spying' on your browsing habits.Spying is 1 thing but using a place snooping around that is worse than a Trojan.To bad i don't have any other choice for ISP or i would drop them really fast.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20713821 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:12:38 EDT Centurytel drops NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711216 funchords : I'm happy to report that CenturyTel has dropped NebuAd. In a private email to me from a CenturyTel subscriber, the company told him today that it is no longer using NebuAd or any other Behavioral Targeting service.

The subscriber also observed, and I have confirmed, that the paragraph mentioning the service and the links to Opt Out of it, have been removed from CenturyTel's Privacy Policy page. (pdf files attached for historical reference)

--Robb
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
CenturyTel -···n-22.pdf
Google Cache of Privacy Policy
CenturyTel -···n-27.pdf
Privacy Policy fetched Today
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711216 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 01:10:04 EDT Re: Centurytel and NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711098 seagreen :
said by nunya See Profile :

I'd like to know how NebuAd works
Read the article linked in my post directly above yours. In it is a very good description about how NebuAd works.
I don't think there is much the end user can directly do to thwart the tracking.

What users of other ISP's have done is get their congressmen/women involved and looking into the wiretap & privacy laws relative to this technology. Charter, one of the other ISPs who had planned to make use of this technology has seemingly backed off on it now: »After Charter's Decision To Drop NebuAD, Will Other ISPs Follow?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20711098 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 00:18:50 EDT Re: Centurytel and NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20710599 nunya : If enough people were to use Track Me Not, I wonder if it would help obfuscate the mining of information?
I'd like to know how NebuAd works and if there is any grassroots effort to combat it or render it useless.
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All we need now is a car that runs on milk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20710599 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:20:44 EDT Re: Centurytel and NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20671995 seagreen : Source: NebuAd and Partner ISPs:
Wiretapping, Forgery and Browser Hijacking

said by report :
1. Unique Identification: The NebuAd device ties a customer’s individual record maintained by the ISP to an alphanumeric code (called a “hash code”). This method allows NebuAd to uniquely and persistently to identify individuals without ISPs needing to release data from billing records.

A man-in-the-middle (MITM) attack: MITM is a form of active eavesdropping in which the attacker makes independent connections with the victims and relays messages between them. The MITM intercepts and conveys messages going between the two victims and injects convincing replacement messages.
This attack is a MITM because NebuAd is inserted into the network between end points. To cause the browser to load cookies, it inserts code by impersonating the end-point server and adding JavaScript at a time when the real end-point server would end its transmission.

NebuAd exploits normal browser and platform security behaviors by forging IP packets, allowing their own JavaScript code to be written into source code trusted by the Web browser. NebuAd and ISPs together cooperate in this attack against the intentions of the consumers, the designers of their software and the owners of the servers that they visit.


Furthermore, the so-called opt-out in no way assures the Centurytel customer that their movements are not being tracked.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20671995 Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:25:25 EDT Re: Centurytel and NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20671813 drkllpnt94 : tstolze,

Why do you think there is an "Opt-in" link as well? Are they just teasing CenturyTel customers because by default they are already being monitored...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20671813 Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:50:13 EDT Re: Centurytel and NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20559746 chd176 : At least those (with AT&T anyway) are free I was refering to ad's via third party that would charge you if you aren't on a messaging package. Fun stuff...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20559746 Thu, 29 May 2008 18:33:40 EDT Re: Centurytel and NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20558929 dsldude08 : I have US Cellular and I already get ads sent to me via text messaging. Mostly they are advertising trivia games and things you can win, but yes, you are right. :huh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20558929 Thu, 29 May 2008 16:11:21 EDT Re: Centurytel and NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20558758 chd176 : Wow this is just as bad as the "ads" DirecTV injects into the HR20 for new channels and what not. I'm just glad we haven't gotten to the point (yet but it's very close) that we get ad's sent via MMS and SMS to our cell phones.
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10,000/768 CenturyTel PPPoE DSL line (really 5,000/768 ;))]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20558758 Thu, 29 May 2008 15:41:50 EDT Re: Centurytel and NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20557430 seagreen :
said by tstolze See Profile :

I have not done any investigating on how this works. Will it still work if you don't use CT's DNS servers?.
I don't know precisely how it works other than it is hardware wired in to the ISP's network and which uses deep packet inspection. It's doubtful that it could bypassed so simply as using other DNS servers.

FWIW: I haven't used Centurytel DNS servers for a long time because they are so slow and often unreachable. I use treewalk and OpenDNS.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20557430 Thu, 29 May 2008 11:50:32 EDT Re: Centurytel and NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20556304 dsldude08 : I have no idea about the DNS servers. I've heard if you don't use the same one's as your ISP that is using the tracking technology, that it will effectively avoid the targeted ads, but I'm not sure in this case, nor for Charter's. I guess we'll just have to wait and hope that it just gets turned back instead of having to find ways around it. There is, after all, an FTC investigation into this, which I undoubtedly saw coming due to the nature of the issue.
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"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
- Abraham Lincoln]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20556304 Thu, 29 May 2008 07:26:46 EDT Re: Centurytel and NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20555536 tstolze : I have not done any investigating on how this works. Will it still work if you don't use CT's DNS servers?

(added) This is nice, you opt out by use of a cookie. So you have to opt out on each system used on your line, then each time the cookie is removed. :mad:

CenturyTel's High-Speed Internet subscribers who choose not to receive targeted online advertisements can opt out at any time by clicking here or visiting »www.nebuad.com/privacy/optout.php. The opt out is accomplished through the placement of an opt out cookie and applies only to the computer and browser through which the opt out selection was made. If, after opting out, you obtain a new computer, use a different browser, or delete the opt out cookie, you must complete the opt out process again in order to maintain your opt out status. If you choose to opt out, you will continue to receive online advertisements; however, these advertisements will likely be less relevant to your interests.
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Ofallon, Mo Weather]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20555536 Thu, 29 May 2008 00:38:35 EDT Re: Centurytel and NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20554688 seagreen : I agree - I personally think it's outrageous that your ISP should be able to allow a third party to track your browsing habits so that you can be targeted for advertisements "to deliver or facilitate delivery of targeted online advertisements to our High Speed Internet subscribers for the purpose of providing these subscribers with a richer, more relevant Web surfing experience." Give me a break, I use pop-up blockers, hosts files and every other means at my disposal to avoid seeing unwanted advertisements.

Furthermore, there is no way the customer of the ISP should have to opt out of this tracking. The customer should have to opt IN if they want this "enriched" experience.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20554688 Wed, 28 May 2008 21:24:58 EDT Re: Centurytel and NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20554524 dsldude08 : I agree with your comments 1,000%. I have very loudly showed my nonacceptance of this new tracking option and hopefully they will turn their backs on it and not decide to do it. I do not see it as necessarily a privacy risk, because a lot of websites already do this, such as the common name of "geo-targeted" ads. Many, many sites use this. There are downsides to it of course, but we'll see. It has not been officially launched yet, but needless to say I'm fighting for this to be turned around. Charter has recently started doing this also, among others, FYI.

There is some ground on this with the FTC though...

»Behavioral Advertising Could Be Illegal
»FTC 'Investigating' Behavioral Advertising
»Congressmen Want To Chat With Charter Over Privacy
»Anti-Spyware Coalition Tackles Phorm, NebuAD

And there are more. *sigh* :huh:
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"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
- Abraham Lincoln]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20554524 Wed, 28 May 2008 20:52:07 EDT Centurytel and NebuAd http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20554465 seagreen : Heard about this months ago but Centurytel finally sent an email today outlining how they will "share" your browsing habits with a third party advertising outfit, NebuAd.

said by CenturyTel email :
Dear CenturyTel Customer,

CenturyTel continually looks for ways to improve your overall online experience. In that regard, we have enhanced our High-Speed Internet service by working with partners to provide targeted, online advertising for your convenience and benefit. Targeted, online advertising minimizes irrelevant or unwanted ads that clutter your Web pages. If you do not wish to receive targeted, online advertisements, or if you would simply like more information about CenturyTel's use of online advertising, third-party ad servers and the measures you can take to protect your privacy, please review our Privacy Policy by visiting »www.centurytel.com/Pages/PrivacyPolicy/#adv.


said by Centurytel updated Privacy Policy :
Online advertising and third-party ad servers
We may use advertising companies to deliver ads for CenturyTel-offered services and products on our Web sites or on third party Web sites. These online ads include, but are not limited to, banner ads. These online ads may contain third-party cookies or Web beacons that allow tracking of visitors' responses to our advertisements, which responses assist us in measuring the effectiveness of our ads. Although these third parties may receive anonymous Web usage information about ad viewing on such Web sites, we prohibit them from using this information in any manner contrary to the terms of this Policy.


Needless to say, I opted out although, IMHO, the customer should not have to opt out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20554465 Wed, 28 May 2008 20:40:11 EDT