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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
1 edit | Bad Summary quote:
Because the Judge has decided that actually showing evidence of a crime might be a good idea.
The article summary confuses the result of civil court cases with crimes. Crimes can only be prosecuted by the government. These are all civil cases, no one is going to be sanctioned by the government if they lose.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
|  | SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| said by pnh102  :The article summary confuses the result of civil court cases with crimes. Crimes can only be prosecuted by the government. These are all civil cases, no one is going to be sanctioned by the government if they lose. LMAO. More like bad reading. Did you even read the Wired article, or were you just too much in a hurry to demonstrate your legal vocabulary?
Whether the allegation is prosecuted in civil or criminal court, proof is still necessary. The only thing different is the standard. I guess you must have missed law class the day law was discussed. | |
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vpoko
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join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| Re: Bad Summary pnh102 is right, "showing evidence of a crime" is not an element of a civil case. "Showing evidence of a tort" or something similar is. Nobody said proof wasn't required, but the word "crime" is out of place in an article dealing with civil infractions. | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| Re: Bad Summary That's not true, you're confusing "criminal damages" with "statutory damages". RIAA/MPAA only need to prove their case by "preponderance of the evidence", not "beyond a reasonable doubt", and the state is not required to provide an attorney for you. There may be civil damamges that kick in upon a criminal conviction, but the statute also allows for pure civil suits absent of a criminal prosecution. There's nothing criminal about it. | |
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Neyland
join:2003-02-04
USA
| Re: Bad Summary said by Dogfather :Hosting the files by itself is not actionable because there is nothing illegal about it and the RIAA/MPAA can't go after those people outside the statute because the have no damages from someone just hosting files. Yet... If this becomes the requirement, I honestly feel they will buy the change necessary in Washington. It shames me to say it, but in these situations our lawmakers are for sale.
Now, must you download the whole file or just a part? If you have to get the whole file... how does that work in a distributed system? They allow legal 'sampling' of songs without copyright issues correct? I could easily say that little bit you got from me was just a... sample.
Or I could say it was just data. By itself it was useless.. completely unrecognizable as anything copyrighted to anyone. | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | That's all fine and dandy, but you still haven't shown where "criminal" plays into it. There are no criminal damages without a criminal conviction. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
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join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| said by vpoko :pnh102 is right, "showing evidence of a crime" is not an element of a civil case. "Showing evidence of a tort" or something similar is.
It is? That's a new one on me. Gonna have to write that one down and use it sometime....But your honor, showing evidence of crime is not an element of the case...showing evidence of a tort is!
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The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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vpoko
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join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | Re: Bad Summary I suppose if you ever had a judge that didn't know the difference between a crime and a tort you could pull that one out. | |
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supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
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1 edit | said by vpoko :pnh102 is right, "showing evidence of a crime" is not an element of a civil case. "Showing evidence of a tort" or something similar is. Nobody said proof wasn't required, but the word "crime" is out of place in an article dealing with civil infractions. Court is a "quest for admissable evidence". Civil courts require proof, more proof better you are, and a preponderance of the "evidence" in your favor to win. Criminal court is same proof but beyond a reasonable doubt.
Actually, the lawyers are stupid since if they claim "crime", they shouldn't be there a prosecutor should. Crimes have punishements. Civil torts have damages (loss of money).
Ex: If your friend stole your iPod, that is a civil case not a crime unless a prosecutor has almost nothing to do. It could be a crime but without prosecution, isn't. So, you sue in small claims and have 2 witnesses saying, "Yeah, he took it" or a video of he took it, you win the case by the preponderance of the evidence. A receipt proving you bought it, witnesses saying it was yours, and witnesses saying, "Yeah, he has it" will work too.
Simply, without a prosecution, there is no crime. Just a tort. Now, it could become a crime if the case is won and prosecutors decided to go after the person and win.
Once the find an unfriednly judge, the RIAA and MPAA will get whacked. "It's the proof, stupid!"
Now, if the RIAA or MPAA reps downloaded from you, you might have a civil case for invasion of privacy, malicious prosecution (torts or criminal prosecution works for that), and maybe even illegal wiretapping if say you were on dialup. If you have Vonage hooked up to a HSI connection along with downloading/uploading, invasion of privacy could still take root or illegal wiretapping since you could sue them for reading all your data. How do we know what they were looking at on IP address 189.xx.xx.xx? I doubt seriously they can't look at ALL data so how are they "looking" in the first place. Just using bittorent would be illegal on both sides if downloading copyrighted material, but, where is the distribution? If nobody but the RIAA/MPAA downloaded it, they have a weak case the Judge should pounce on.
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
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join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | well the pre determined fines are listed in an FBI warning which means copyright violations do have a criminal angle as well that has to be proven.
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