  sbrook Premium,Mod join:2001-12-14 H0H 0H0
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| reply to Nightfall Re: Anyone ever heard of Poor Talent and Overhype and OverPriced
The problem is that take an album of say 10 tracks. The typical mix out of the industry today is a couple good, a few mediocre and the rest spacefiller trash. People are sharing the good and some of the mediocre tracks because they don't want to pay the overpriced amount for under half an album.
People are also sharing as a try before you buy mechanism. |
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  Nightfall My Goal Is To Deny Yours Premium,MVM join:2001-08-03 Grand Rapids, MI
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| said by sbrook :The problem is that take an album of say 10 tracks. The typical mix out of the industry today is a couple good, a few mediocre and the rest spacefiller trash. People are sharing the good and some of the mediocre tracks because they don't want to pay the overpriced amount for under half an album. People are also sharing as a try before you buy mechanism. That model has been going on for years. There are just a handful of albums that I can consider every song to be excellent. Even in the years of the 60s through the early 90s. I thought albums should have been eliminated a long time ago. Bands should just be selling singles of the best stuff.
At the same time though, as an art form, music is perceived differently by different people.
Sharing as a try before you buy mechanism is fine. Sharing to avoid paying the cost of the album, single, or download is not. A majority of people sharing, over 70% of them in a recent survey, do it to save money. |
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  bolt Former Broadband Exile Premium join:2003-11-11 Charlestown, IN
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| Personally, I bought more CDs while Napster was alive than at any other time. I could count the number of CD's I've bought since Napster was closed down on one hand. They shot themselves in the foot. The could have used Napster as the most uber promotion device in the world. Instead, they decided to bury it. F-em. |
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  major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Stepford, CA clubs:
| reply to Nightfall said by Nightfall : Bands should just be selling singles of the best stuff. Which is part & parcel of why the music industry is on the decline. The head cheesedicks at the RIAA absolutely refuse to see that reality and instead cling to the album concept because that's what's made them truckloads of money. It is a textbook 101 example of an industry refusing to accept consumer demand and now they're paying for it and desperately searching for someone (the consumers who else) to blame. -- The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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  Nightfall My Goal Is To Deny Yours Premium,MVM join:2001-08-03 Grand Rapids, MI
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| said by major marco :said by Nightfall : Bands should just be selling singles of the best stuff. Which is part & parcel of why the music industry is on the decline. The head cheesedicks at the RIAA absolutely refuse to see that reality and instead cling to the album concept because that's what's made them truckloads of money. It is a textbook 101 example of an industry refusing to accept consumer demand and now they're paying for it and desperately searching for someone (the consumers who else) to blame. I agree. However, in the end, 2 wrongs don't make a right. The rampant copyright infringement going on is not the answer. A boycott of the product is. Especially if it is like the OP says and is a crap product. The problem is that it isn't. People love the music, especially if the price is free. |
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 LurkerLito
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| reply to bolt said by bolt :Personally, I bought more CDs while Napster was alive than at any other time. I could count the number of CD's I've bought since Napster was closed down on one hand. Same with me. When I first saw napster I found new bands almost every day. I must have bought about 5 CDs a month. Since they were shut down and the RIAA started suing people I am down to like 5 albums ever 2-3 years. |
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 SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| reply to Nightfall said by Nightfall : 2 wrongs don't make a right. The rampant copyright infringement going on is not the answer. A boycott of the product is. Which is a beautiful theory, but this is the market we're talking about, and, the market has ways of correcting itself. We are seing that consumers will choose convenience and risk alleged copyright infringment if necessary in order to satisfy demand. Boycotting never resolves anything. Companies laugh at boycotts. There is no leverage whatSOever over them to change their outdated business model. |
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  Nightfall My Goal Is To Deny Yours Premium,MVM join:2001-08-03 Grand Rapids, MI
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| said by SilverSurfer :said by Nightfall : 2 wrongs don't make a right. The rampant copyright infringement going on is not the answer. A boycott of the product is. Which is a beautiful theory, but this is the market we're talking about, and, the market has ways of correcting itself. We are seing that consumers will choose convenience and risk alleged copyright infringment if necessary in order to satisfy demand. Boycotting never resolves anything. Companies laugh at boycotts. There is no leverage whatSOever over them to change their outdated business model. Thats because the boycotts are done half assed. If the product is that crappy, then it should be easy to boycott it. Instead, we have a bunch of two faced liars who say the music on the radio is nothing but crap....but they freely share files anyway.
Customers choose convenience and a free product, and its a easy choice to make. In my opinion, not the right choice, but thats just what I believe. |
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  mbnt
join:2002-06-22 Clifton, NJ
| Bono, like the rest of the music industry, is smoking way too much craCk to notice anything real and substantial.  -- Unless you've seen KISS live, you don't understand the band. Paul Stanley, KISS. (2003). |
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 SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| reply to Nightfall said by Nightfall :Customers choose convenience [...] I would agree with you on this count because it is about convenience, a demand the record companies have been ignoring since 1999. As to your allegations of two faced liars saying one thing and doing something completely different, I would also add freedom from DRM. The P2P clients are just filling consumer demands -convenience + DRM-free music- two items the RIAA has chosen and continues to ignore to its own financial peril. |
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1 edit | said by SilverSurfer :said by Nightfall :Customers choose convenience [...] I would agree with you on this count because it is about convenience, a demand the record companies have been ignoring since 1999. As to your allegations of two faced liars saying one thing and doing something completely different, I would also add freedom from DRM. The P2P clients are just filling consumer demands -convenience + DRM-free music- two items the RIAA has chosen and continues to ignore to its own financial peril. DRM really has very little do with it. In a recent study as to why people pirate, over 70% said it was about saving money. Convenience is a bigger factor than DRM at least in my mind.
You are right though, the RIAA has chosen and continues to ignore customer demands. Imagine what would have happened if they would have embraced Shawn Fanning and Napster. What if they made Napster a pay service, charged everyone .25 cents a song (no DRM and various bitrates to choose from) for the entire RIAA catalog with no DRM. IMHO, music copyright infringement wouldn't be a big issue. Instead, they fought it tooth and nail. |
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 SilverSurfer
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| said by Nightfall : Imagine what would have happened if they would have embraced Shawn Fanning and Napster. What if they made Napster a pay service, charged everyone .25 cents a song (no DRM and various bitrates to choose from) for the entire RIAA catalog with no DRM. IMHO, music copyright infringement wouldn't be a big issue. Instead, they fought it tooth and nail. Absolutely. The RIAA not only missed that gravy train, but derailed it permanently. |
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  sivran Long Live The Suite Premium join:2003-09-15 Arlington, TX clubs:
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1 edit | reply to Nightfall quote: Sharing as a try before you buy mechanism is fine. Sharing to avoid paying the cost of the album, single, or download is not. A majority of people sharing, over 70% of them in a recent survey, do it to save money.
Exactly. Try it. Decide it sucks. Don't buy it.
This is exactly the model I use for software (not just games, apps too) and anime, and indirectly, music. Anime music videos are infringing too, but I would never have bought a Nightwish CD if it weren't for a couple AMVs featuring their music. I never would've bought Need for Speed Most Wanted if I hadn't pirated it first (heck later I even bought a wheel for it).
Unfortunately, the vast majority of stuff that I try in such a manner, sucks. Pacific Storm could've been such a great game, but had several fatal flaws. Far Cry, whose demo was great, turned out to suck in the full game (I loved the parts where you actually fight human enemies. The mutants totally killed it for me. Make a Far Cry with no mutants, and I'd buy it). Sure glad I didn't waste my money on it. -- Think outside the fox...Seamonkey |
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  Nightfall My Goal Is To Deny Yours Premium,MVM join:2001-08-03 Grand Rapids, MI
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1 edit | said by sivran : quote: Sharing as a try before you buy mechanism is fine. Sharing to avoid paying the cost of the album, single, or download is not. A majority of people sharing, over 70% of them in a recent survey, do it to save money.
Exactly. Try it. Decide it sucks. Don't buy it. This is exactly the model I use for software (not just games, apps too) and anime, and indirectly, music. Anime music videos are infringing too, but I would never have bought a Nightwish CD if it weren't for a couple AMVs featuring their music. I never would've bought Need for Speed Most Wanted if I hadn't pirated it first (heck later I even bought a wheel for it). Unfortunately, the vast majority of stuff that I try in such a manner, sucks. Pacific Storm could've been such a great game, but had several fatal flaws. Far Cry, whose demo was great, turned out to suck in the full game (I loved the parts where you actually fight human enemies. The mutants totally killed it for me. Make a Far Cry with no mutants, and I'd buy it). Sure glad I didn't waste my money on it. I am all for that model.
However, not everyone follows that rule.
I know of a local design business that has warezed versions of Photoshop CS3 on 8 workstations. Why? Its cheaper to do that than buy the product. Even though the product makes tens of thousands for them in the course of a year.
Then you have people who download countless movies, watch them, burn copies of them for their viewing pleasure later, and share them with others. How many times do you have to use a product before it becomes a "lost sale"? 2? 3? How about a media center full of dvd quality movies that have been illegally downloaded and are all watched multiple times?
Shareware has been a concept out there for a long time so it is nothing new. The problem comes up when consumers feel they have the right to download and use what they want without paying for it. Especially if they use the product on a daily basis.
The difference is, you paid for your material you found to be interesting. I know a lot of cheapskates who don't pay for anything they download illegally. Whats worse is that they keep hundreds of gigs of this stuff. |
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  sivran Long Live The Suite Premium join:2003-09-15 Arlington, TX clubs:
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| The guys in that shop are the ones that are really costing people (in this case, Adobe) money though. Not Joe Torrent Trader, who may or may not, but most likely not, buy what he downloads.
The line between those design shop guys and Joe is a very black, very broad one. I've no problem with software houses going after people using unlicensed software for their business. -- Think outside the fox...Seamonkey |
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