Re: EPC error in Automotive http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20731361 en Sat, 04 Jul 2009 21:29:28 EDT Sat, 04 Jul 2009 21:29:28 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20750057 fixrman : In case you didn't read my post, I have been in the automotive business for twenty four years, twenty of them as a full time technician.

I know what an EPC lamp is for, and I do know how to do diagnostics on CEC vehicles, but thanks. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20750057 Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:49:59 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743513 Maccawolf : I won't SWEAR to it, but I think it's only 4 cyl, not 6.

$150 is right on the mark, cos THEY say 149.52.

I disagree with what Jwersan said though, I only paid $7500 for the car last Nov, so maybe a new car WOULD be covered for 3 years, but I bought a 25000 car 6 years down the road for less than 1/3 of what it cost new. I probably won't need to put that kind of money into it again til next year or so (hopefully), so I figure I'm still WAY ahead of the game.

thanks for your help and the info joako See Profile
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Mom and Crockett...... I miss you both!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743513 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:46:36 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743307 joako : Oh that's a crankshaft position sensor. Engine certainly won't start without that working. List price ~$150 (my price source hasn't been working right today it seems.. I want to say its $124.60 but refuse to attest to its accuracy.) I think a quick scan on VAG-Com should have given you something like "CPS no signal" "short to ground" or "impassable signal"

You probably have the 2.0L 4cyl engine (if not then its the 12v 2.8L 6cyl)... not sure since that part applies to many cars including newer Audis. No need to use synthetic on that.

Not that bad....
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743307 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:40:47 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743261 Maccawolf :
said by joako See Profile :

Cost of oil change seems reasonable (assuming its synthetic) which should be used if its a 1.8t engine.
I think it's NOT a 1.8, (1.4?) and they don't say whether it's Synth or not. Just 5 QTS engine oil.
quote:
Mind posting the P/n of "EPC sensor" maybe we are talking about different things?


06A-906-433-L
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Mom and Crockett...... I miss you both!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743261 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:27:19 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743246 joako : Cost of oil change seems reasonable (assuming its synthetic) which should be used if its a 1.8t engine.

Mind posting the P/n of "EPC sensor" maybe we are talking about different things?

Price of brakes @ your dealer don't seem that bad either.
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743246 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:22:03 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743220 Maccawolf : Oil change was included in the !k.

It was $425.98 for brakes and rotors $51.50 for oil change (next time I find a place for $19.95...LOL)

$384.78 for the EPC sensor and hose (including labor of course) and a $20.00 MISC. charge that I have already emailed questioning. I won't find out about that til Mon at least.

Grand Total $994.02

Thanks NY forum for the LOVELY day at Rye Playland that ended up costing me over a grand...LOL ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743220 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:15:16 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743115 jwersan :
said by Maccawolf See Profile :

said by joako See Profile :

@fixrman:

Please don't take it to the dealer. VW dealer seem to be one of the worst.
NOW you tell me....LOL

Went yesterday and the EPC thingy only cost me $350, but then they determined that I needed brakes AND rotors.
All told I spent $1K on the car yesterday.
$650 for brakes and rotors!?!?!?! :o
Next time bring it to my house and I will do the brakes & rotors, and I will throw in a free oil change for only $500!! :D :D :D :p ;)
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RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743115 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:45:03 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743063 joako : The MAF? Here's a trick if you add an "X" to the end of the part number you will get the "exchange part" which will be way cheaper and has the same 12,000 mile, 12 month warranty as the "new" part. For some reason this isn't present in the VW parts catalog but is in the Audi catalog. There really is nothing they can fix in those I'm convinced they just re-use the housings and replace the actual sensor (you will notice there is a security torx bit holding the sensor to the MAF housing) Pelicanparts.com has the MAF $89 "exchange" or $150 "new". Just FYI the VW list price for that part "NEW" is $210.00 and they get it for WAY below that price and also sell them to shops below list price... so if you paid $350 for a MAF that means the dealer made over $150 on you in parts mark-up in addition to labor on a part thats very common to replace (so noone pull the "oh but the cost of storing it on a shelf for 2 yrs) Just as an example, 1stvwparts.com which is Auburn VW sells them for $139 and $157. You get a dealer receipt with your order so any VW dealer will honor the warranty with no hassles.

$1000 for a brake job!!?? And I bet you got OEM parts. My indy mechanic charged me $300 for the labor (felt it was a little overpriced) and I supplied the parts. Not on a VW but brakes are the same on just about any car (you do need a "special" tool to reset the rear calipers but its like 10 bucks... basically you need to turn and push at the same time vs most cars you just can push it back with a c-clamp)

Just as a comparison you can get Brembo rotors and Hawk HPS pads (better performance, low dust, low noise setup) for about $375 (parts only) add a liter or two of ATE Super Blue or ATE Typ. 200 ($15/liter approx) and you should be good for at least 30k miles.

I wouldn't get a $80 Midas "lifetime" brake job either... poor quality parts. I think I spent $1200 (parts) for a big brake setup and sport suspension when I owned a VW. Big brake setup paid off when I avoided by literally 1" a rear end accident by someone with no brake lights... but the stock setup isn't too bad and honestly unless you upgrade your calipers as well the big brake upgrades aren' that much better.

So all the naysayers when I say "all dealers are crap"... I have no idea what dealer Maccawolf took his car to infact I know nothing about any car dealer, not even the names, of any in NY or NJ!
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743063 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:30:00 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20742922 Maccawolf :
said by joako See Profile :

@fixrman:

Please don't take it to the dealer. VW dealer seem to be one of the worst.
NOW you tell me....LOL

Went yesterday and the EPC thingy only cost me $350, but then they deternined that I needed brakes AND rotors.
All told I spent $1K on the car yesterday.
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Mom and Crockett...... I miss you both!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20742922 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:53:02 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20742822 joako : @fixrman:

1)You can get a VAG-Com which will provide the same diagnostics as the VAS-5051 (except for GFF [proves most ofthe techs are idiots... they need a "fix the car wizard"!?] and firmware upgrades for control modules and now of course immobilizer stuff but there are ways to get the PIN or SKC and once you do you can do all the immobilizer functions with VAG-Com. Per Ross-Tech many dealers are actually using VAG-Coms!) Don't bother with generic OBD-II tools most I would do is get a free scan at AutoZone. There are many other tools that will do the same thing as VAG-Com but it seems to the the most popular and Ross-Tech provides excellent support and frequent updates.

2) Of course the Hayes is crap. Get the Bentley on CD-ROM it is the "Official Factory Repair Manual" and will provide you the same in-depth technical information the dealers and techs have *ACCESS* to only difference is chances are higher someone buying it to fix their car will actually *USE* it.

3) Brake light switch should not (AFAIK -- never heard that one) make the EPC light turn on

4) EPC = Electronic Power Control, aka "drive by wire" so I take it you don't have the 2.0l engine. Common issue seems to be the MAF (airflow meter) has gone bad esp. on the 1.8t engine. This is very common. Try this -- unplug the 4 pin connector. If you trace from airbox it will be right there inline with the rest of the tubing. This will cause the ECU to run in a closed loop meaning air-to-fuel ratio will be determined by a table in the ECU based on engine RPM, requested torque, etc, etc.

said by Maccawolf See Profile :

It felt/acted like exactly what I think a theft prevention shut off would do. (I don't have it). It turned over and started but died within two seconds as it didn't get any gas.

P. S. all are moot points now anyway as I have an appt. for 7:30 tomorrow morning to have VW take a look at it.
If its related to the immobilizer-II system in your car it will start as normal and then shut off within 5 seconds and there will be an amber light on the dash with the image of a car and a key. I forget now if it flashes, or not.

Please don't take it to the dealer. VW dealer seem to be one of the worst. Seems like anytime they have a decent tech they leave within a few years and start their own shops.
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09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20742822 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:25:04 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20734160 fixrman : How do you know it didn't get any fuel? You don't. You just think that is what happened. Perhaps it lost spark. Thinking what a theft deterrent system would do doesn't get the car fixed. You have to know. Guesswork is expensive.

A 1996 vehicle was most likely OBDII, with electronic engine controls(computerized controls were installed on some cars back in the 70s, BTW). You couldn't fix that one either, not without a shotgun. Even so, a 1996 is still twelve years old.

You do need an owner's manual. It would tell you to take the car to VW when the EPC lamp is illuminated. The Haynes manual, as you indicated, is useless because you cannot access anything - so, as you said, you would have saved money by buying something you do need.

I work at a dealership, and I have a lot more in tools, test equipment and a technical library that you do not have at your disposal. There are things that I can't do on some vehicles, and other things that I choose not to do.

I'd suggest forgetting about servicing your own car, or trying to. Why?

Because if I had a dollar for every DIYer who made a problem worse by "fixing" it, or for every backyard shade tree "spert" who tried to fix something and made it worse, I'd have enough money to pay cash for the airplane I want.

If you want to hear some of the tales. make another thread and post to me. It'd be a hoot. ;-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20734160 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:53:51 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20731361 jwersan :
said by Maccawolf See Profile :

OK, first of all, I didn't buy it new (nor have I EVER had a NEW car)
There's your problem! :D

While new cars are NOT free from their own issues, the cost to own is much lower than MOST used cars, unless you get lucky.
Remember, it was sold/traded in for a reason, and you may have just discovered it! :uhh:

Most new cars are covered "bumper to bumper" for three years or more, depending on maker.

If you are a weekend mechanic, then used cars may be "fun" to tinker with.

While the dealer will cost you more than the corner mechanic, they do know your car and generally have the parts on hand to fix it.

It may be worth the time and trouble to take it to them...
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RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20731361 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:26:19 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20730794 Maccawolf : EPC is the IDIOT LIGHT on the dash.

It felt/acted like exactly what I think a theft prevention shut off would do. (I don't have it). It turned over and started but died within two seconds as it didn't get any gas.

NEW FANGLED was a joke (sort of). Besides, my last car which was a 96, I CAN work on the engine. Hardly your 20 year scenario.

Don't need an owner's manual. I have a Haynes manual (that I ordered even before I picked up the car). too bad I didn't realize it would be useless as I am unable to access anything. I could have saved myself some money.

P. S. all are moot points now anyway as I have an appt. for 7:30 tomorrow morning to have VW take a look at it.
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Mom and Crockett...... I miss you both!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20730794 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:28:10 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20730189 fixrman : >> It SOUNDS/FEELS like it has something to do with the fuel line or fuel filter. >(originally wouldn't start, but a few hours later, it did, ?

Does that mean it didn't crank? Or does it mean it cranked and didn't run? When one turns the key, the engine should crank, which means the cranking motor(it isn't a "starter" at all, one of my pet peeves) is spinning the engine. If spark, air, fuel, compression are present, the engine will fire and run.

With electronic fuel controls, there can be many reasons for the engine to crank and not run. There are too many possibilities to diagnose with the information you gave, and as suddenly as your problem appeared, it could fail again with no warning.

Once again, a brake light switch failure should not cause the engine to not run. If, as you say, "they SAID" the switch was replaced (and I am assuming you are taking a weak shot at a dealer here) - "they" did. It would be illegal for the manufacturer's representative (the dealer) to submit for a part they did not replace, and it would be a violation of Federal law for the recall to not be performed.

Point of information: These "new-fangled" cars have been around for over twenty years now, in electronic system controls. I suggest you get more familiar with the current technology. If you didn't get an owner's manual, you should have demanded one. Search on eBay, craigslist or contact the manufacturer. You of all people certainly need one. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20730189 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 07:37:56 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20729461 Maccawolf : OK, first of all, I didn't buy it new (nor have I EVER had a NEW car), so I have no idea of this warranty booklet of which you speak. (belive me, If I ever received it, I would read it...)

How much more info can I give? I have no more info. it's not POOR PERFORMANCE, it was NO performance. (although it is running fine (so it seems ) NOW). The CEL even went off again...

I have bought a can of fuel filter cleaner stuff, and it says to put it in the tank when it's almost empty, so I have to wait a few more days before I do that. (I use about 1/2 a tank a week, and am going to let it get to 1/4 so I can add this stuff.)

BTW, I believe they replaced the recalled brake switch in JAn when I brought the car in LAST TIME I had an oil change.
(at least they SAID they did...)
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Mom and Crockett...... I miss you both!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20729461 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 23:59:46 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20729297 fixrman : There is a brake switch recall that will cause the EPC lamp to illuminate, but that shouldn't cause a poor performance problem.

You didn't give much information, such as how the engine runs, or what engine it has. When you take it to a facility for repair, give them more information so they don't spend as much time trying to figure it out "blind".

When a consumer gives less information, it causes more work, consequently the owner feels "raped". I'd also suggest being an informed driver - that is why the manufacturer gives a warranty booklet with every new car - the most under-read book in the universe. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20729297 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 23:23:02 EDT Re: EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20715471 HEDP : Something to do with the electronic power control.

AKA Something is up with your electronic throttle.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20715471 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:02:44 EDT EPC error http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20715441 Maccawolf : Anybody know ? It SOUNDS/FEELS like it has something to do with the fuel line or fuel filter. to this NON-MECHANIC, I would diagnose that type of thing to be the issue.

These new fangled cars make it IMPOSSIBLE for me to do ANYTHING on my car. I guess I either have to find a mechanic PRONTO, or take it to the dealer and get raped.

Can someone advise me if this is something I can drive around with for a few days? or am I without transportation until I can get this taken care of?

(originally wouldn't start, but a few hours later, it did, I was just hesitant to drive it home on deserted roads in the middle of the night....)

2001 VW Jetta 99,000 miles. Manual transmission.
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Mom and Crockett...... I miss you both!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20715441 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:47:18 EDT