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lvlorpheus
join:2008-02-17
Eureka Springs, AR
4 edits | reply to fiberguy
Re: Try it in a college town
At this point I am going to have to quote someone else from the conversation.
"are you that stupid?"
"Further, I could care less about oil - you brought it up and I think it's not appropriate in this conversation." You keep saying the internet is not necessary in society today or tomorrow ... Every tool that can be used to keep money out of the hands of people that want to destroy our way of life is a necessity.
"Further, I could care less about oil -..."
If you don't care about major impacts on our society why am I even wasting my time on you. | |
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to lvlorpheus
So.. now that you've gone to this length.. you still haven't addressed the very issue as to WHY it needs to be a "UTILITY"..
You've steered clear of everything, spun, and side stepped the issues. You sure quoted me a lot which was un necessary. I think the fact that my message is RIGHT ABOVE YOURS is pretty clear what I said. I stand behind my statements.
The one thing you did mention was the desire of Verizon to buy Altel Regulating it as a utility isn't going to change anything about you and your "2 EV-DO" connections. I happen to have a few of them myself. Regulations mean NOTHING in that regard. Even under regulation or utility, all a provider has to do is petition and show that they need to charge more for their service, and guess what?
The ultimate reason you want the service to be a utility is that you HOPE that it will lower your bill! My So-called blinders remain on, thank you, because I am realistic in my thinking. I TOLD you in my last message it was about your hopes to keep service "cheap"..
Mobile broadband isn't ready for high usage right now. THAT is reality! When there is a supply and demand issue, it's always going to make prices stay high. The mobile broadband service (or as you like to call it, EV-DO) is not ready for prime time and everyone to just throw the kitchen sink at it. I am GLAD it still expensive. I use it all the time for business when I travel. I NEED to stay connected. I know some people want to buy it as unlimited and then start pulling the same crap they do with a residential connection and download everything they can! The reality is, is not going to happen.. not now, not at this time!
Since I use my service for business, which it still is built and modeled for, I know that if I use more, I will pay more.. and I am ok with that. I've been an early adopter in MANY technologies INCLUDING DLS when a 256 line cost $120 a month with a $300 install, $120 modem fee, and 3 year contract. How about you? I had cell phone service back in the late 80's when you paid a $29 access fee and 30 cents peak and 15 cent off peak rate. Did you? I had expensive ISDN lines in my home costing upwards to $200 a month for 144k, did you? I'll take my so called blinders off when you take off your rose colored glasses.
Further, I could care less about oil - you brought it up and I think it's not appropriate in this conversation.
.. and, keep up with the name calling, it's very adult of you. | |
lvlorpheus
join:2008-02-17
Eureka Springs, AR
1 edit | reply to fiberguy
fiberguy/string-N-canGuy statements.
1.) "Ever heard of 911?"
2.) "The internet REMAINS a LUXURY. You've provided nothing that can't be done outside of the internet."
3.) "Does a car make it easier for you to get from point A to B? Sure.. people can still walk or take a bus, or ride a bike and do the same."
4.) "And, I could care less if people get charged a fee to NOT use the internet to pay a bill. WHO CARES?"
5.) "Please, name ONE thing that can ONLY be done online that is an integral part of society."
6.) "NOTHING you have described is not perfectly able to be done now, AND with as little as a 256k line."
7.) "all these "life sustaining" things that everyone's thrown at me, none of that can't be done with something as little as a 256 line."
8.) Everything you just described has all been things that makes things more convenient.
9.) "It still doesn't make it a "necessity".. it means you still have the option to, oh my, MAIL your payment! Novel concept! Fees are not an excuse."
10.) "Cutting out oil isn't the answer."
Early on you ask for "ONE thing that can ONLY" be done on the internet as you insist it is not necessity or that will improve society. Then you are given a number of examples and you change your point of view and say "NOTHING you have described is not perfectly able to be done now, AND with as little as a 256k line." Until you are going to stand behind one point or the other it is a waist of my time to try to get you to come out of the dark and take your blinders off.
I don't recall anyone saying we should all have 50 meg connections, just that the internet has become a very important and ever more necessary tool. Although it would be nice if we could get a semblance of what companies in Japan are able to provide to their customers.
I never said cutting out oil was the answer. I said "Reducing our dependence on foreign oil and sending billions of dollars to a region that does not always hold America and Americans in the highest regard makes it a necessity. Every fraction of a cent paid for gas that does not go to terrorists who want to destroy or way of life/society and kill us all makes it a necessity."
"And, to be honest, if $42 is too much for you to pay for something that is SOOOOOOOO important, then maybe you need to rethink your own personal finances." I pay $120 a month for two "unlimited" EV-DO connections from Alltel and used less than 300 GB of data last year from the two connections combined. And the #5 cell provider not once complained, contacted me, or questioned any of that usage. So with Verizon buying Alltel their 5 GB caps worry me a great deal. That less than 300 GB of data would of cost me over $70,000 under the pricing plan Verizon had last week. Now with their new plans if I use 6+ gigs a month on each account it will cost me $8640 a year for 144+ GB of data. If the #5 cell provider can do it "with no complaints" then the #2 soon to be #1 cell provider should be able to at least come up with fair caps. You have the luxary of shooting your mouth off because you get to take the internet for granted. Trade those three $42 connections you have in for three $60 5 GB Verizon EV-DO connections and lets see if you are then ready to come in out of the dark and take the blinders off. | |
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to lvlorpheus
Sorry, but half the population is out on the whole "global warming" thing, and guess which side I'm on? 
Your example on AC doesn't sway me. What you described is that for some people it's important. Can you survive with out it? Yes - you can. I've gone several summers with out it. The AC issue is over... it's going no where.
Look, you and others are missing the point. Where did I say the internet isn't important to some people in love? The fact remains that many people still don't have the internet and live their life just fine. In fact, you should ask some of your friends who don't have the internet and ask them how much better their life is with out it. Some people chose not to get it for a few reasons. You'd be surprised why.. for some, it's not money or lack of providers.
You don't need to make it a "utility" in order to make it important. I can tell you're not paying attention to this debate right now. It's not if the internet is important, it's should it be a utility. You're sounding like there is some kind of an internet crisis. I've got news for you and every single person her having this debate with me. NOTHING you have described is not perfectly able to be done now, AND with as little as a 256k line. Now, before you get your panties in a bundle, I am not saying the bill gates reasoning that we only need 256. I'm saying that for Banking, for school study, booking tickets, banking.. all these "life sustaining" things that everyone's thrown at me, none of that can't be done with something as little as a 256 line.
Why do you need a 50 meg line to do college research? Why do you need one to "save $10 booking an airline ticket".. why do you need 50 meg to check your bank account or to buy or sell stock? (Other than if the site is over bloated with extra crap it doesn't need in the first place) ... seriously. What you NEED ultra fast internet for is for what? Say it alllll together... to make your life more "fun"... so you can download movies in just a couple minutes, not 20. So you can serve your P2P software over a residential line, which you shouldn't be doing anyway..
You don't need to compete with a global market "at home"... you compete with a global market at work. Are you in competition with China to pirate those Star Wars movies faster? Are trying to compete with Japan on getting blizzard patches out faster?
I'm not denying ANYTHING, as you said. What I am saying is that the internet doesn't need to be rules a utility in order to give us all those things you stated. Just because phone was made a utility didn't make phone better - in fact, ask people in the US West territory.. I can guarantee you that 11 western states would tell you horror stories regarding their "public utility".. one benefit of a public utility is that it helps to regulate costs. And, to be honest, if $42 is too much for you to pay for something that is SOOOOOOOO important, then maybe you need to rethink your own personal finances. I, for one, am not willing to pay more taxes to sustain another bureaucracy so you can hope to have a cheaper internet service. (Which won't happen under regulation)
You are more than welcome to have your green world, but I'm sorry, I as many others don't buy, your hype that global warming is real. I, as do many scientists, write this up as mother nature going through another one of her cycles as she has in the past. Al Gore invented global warming, not the internet.
"The gas is going to kill us!! The gas is going to kill us!!" Sheesh.. be real.
Your arguments are so filled with drama it's unbelievable. People like you see things as black and white.. it's either one way or another. I'll help you correct your ways.. there are more than just two sides to issues and how to resolve them. Cutting out oil isn't the answer. I'm sure you forget that it takes power to run the internet.. where are you going to get it? Windmills?  | |
lvlorpheus
join:2008-02-17
Eureka Springs, AR
1 edit | reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy  :Yes.. AC is a luxury, not everyone has it do they? I suppose that a few million in San Francisco alone haven't hear that, huh? And before you talk about how cool it is in SF, Mr. AR, San Francisco can and does get into the high 90's.. even breaks 100 there. Trust me, I've lived there. Now, back to the topic. Where did I dismiss the importance of the internet? Please try to pull yourself out of emotions for a moment and look at reality. The campus is a place of learning, right? YES. I believe that if they don't have internet, and some don't, they would do their research on the campus where they have the tools to find the information. Last time I checked, they have internet on campus in those book borrowing rooms. Stop being a drama queen here for a moment. EVERYTHING you described in that thread, ONCE AGAIN, is to make life easier. It does not sustain life nor does having it in your home make it better for society at this time. Colleges, as your example, has often better than any internet you can get at home - maybe you didn't see me say that a few times already, maybe you were at one too many parties in college and should have paid attention? And, I could care less if people get charged a fee to NOT use the internet to pay a bill. WHO CARES? That's a problem of the business and the end user. How do you know, with out the internet, that prices would have risen the amount of those fees absent of the internet? Keeping "fees" down is not a reason to make the internet a utility. It still doesn't make it a "necessity".. it means you still have the option to, oh my, MAIL your payment! Novel concept! Fees are not an excuse. Nice try. Everything you just described has all been things that makes things more convenient. Look, I have Three connections to the internet in my home. I CHOOSE TO! However, I don't believe in subsidizing it, and I don't believe in mandating it. I still believe that if people want the internet and can't afford it, then they need to walk their happy butt to their local library and use it there. Next you'll ask if I think a car is a luxury. Those with out cars use the bus don't they? Now, before you say that cities run buses, there are still cities that DON'T have bus service. Fun.. I guess with all the people that die in heat waves almost every year AC was not necessary.
"It does not sustain life nor does having it in your home make it better for society at this time." Well i have to disagree. Every gallon of gas that is used driving your car or riding a bus to campus is that much more damaging to our environment/society. Reducing our dependence on foreign oil and sending billions of dollars to a region that does not always hold America and Americans in the highest regard makes it a necessity. Every fraction of a cent paid for gas that does not go to terrorists who want to destroy or way of life/society and kill us all makes it a necessity.
How long is it OK to stay stagnant with regards to the internet. As a nation do we wait until it is glaring us in the face like our oil dependence now. From this moment forward how many students in high school are not going to want to have access to the internet. Do we wait until we can not compete on the global market and then try to solve the problem. You have got to see the internet is the future.
"However, I don't believe in subsidizing it, and I don't believe in mandating it." So you are just going to deny the inevitable future and wait until it is a problem, and keep facilitating money going to people who want to destroy our way of life.
"It still doesn't make it a "necessity".. it means you still have the option to, oh my, MAIL your payment! Novel concept! Fees are not an excuse. Nice try." Great even more gas and oil used to move a letter around instead of a few clicks of a mouse. Sometimes you have to adjust your beliefs and do things that improve you society as a whole.
Its a free country. I prefer to see my money go to improving our future. You have the right to see your money continue to go to gas and oil with portions of that money going to people that want to kill us.
I think its fair to say 90%+ of every future generation is going to want access to the internet. So we just sit in the dark with our blinders on and refuse to see the future or take any action. | |
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to HotRodFoto
The internet and the means of transport are two different things. Such as the DSL line and the carrier that takes the data to the internet.
911 was an improvement to a system that was already in place. People, before 911, just dialed a number to their local fire, police, and ambulance.
And, I disagree with you on paying a fee to mail your bill to Verizon... good try. You may be lacking a discount for using bill pay, but NO ONE is charged to mail their payment in. | |
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to lvlorpheus
Yes.. AC is a luxury, not everyone has it do they? I suppose that a few million in San Francisco alone haven't hear that, huh? And before you talk about how cool it is in SF, Mr. AR, San Francisco can and does get into the high 90's.. even breaks 100 there. Trust me, I've lived there.
Now, back to the topic. Where did I dismiss the importance of the internet? Please try to pull yourself out of emotions for a moment and look at reality.
The campus is a place of learning, right? YES. I believe that if they don't have internet, and some don't, they would do their research on the campus where they have the tools to find the information. Last time I checked, they have internet on campus in those book borrowing rooms.
Stop being a drama queen here for a moment. EVERYTHING you described in that thread, ONCE AGAIN, is to make life easier. It does not sustain life nor does having it in your home make it better for society at this time. Colleges, as your example, has often better than any internet you can get at home - maybe you didn't see me say that a few times already, maybe you were at one too many parties in college and should have paid attention?
And, I could care less if people get charged a fee to NOT use the internet to pay a bill. WHO CARES? That's a problem of the business and the end user. How do you know, with out the internet, that prices would have risen the amount of those fees absent of the internet? Keeping "fees" down is not a reason to make the internet a utility. It still doesn't make it a "necessity".. it means you still have the option to, oh my, MAIL your payment! Novel concept! Fees are not an excuse. Nice try.
Everything you just described has all been things that makes things more convenient. Look, I have Three connections to the internet in my home. I CHOOSE TO! However, I don't believe in subsidizing it, and I don't believe in mandating it. I still believe that if people want the internet and can't afford it, then they need to walk their happy butt to their local library and use it there.
Next you'll ask if I think a car is a luxury. Those with out cars use the bus don't they? Now, before you say that cities run buses, there are still cities that DON'T have bus service.
Fun.. | |
HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO
| reply to fiberguy
As said above, fees are charged now for when you have to mail in things. My Verizon bill is one of them, if I don't have it directly debited from my account, which HAD to be set up online, I pay an extra fee every month. (Incidentally I have a Business connection here at home and not a residential plan)Again you mention the phone, but 911 wasn't mandated til the 80s, and before that, say 30 years before that, not everyone even had phones. Life went along just dine didn't it? And as far as pizza goes, I do all my ordering online for that cuz it's easier. Now let's throw in a unique element here, how about those folks who are handicapped? Who can't exactly take a bus or drive a car? For them would it be a utility as it allows them to carry out life in a somewhat normal manner? Hmmm now there is an interesting concept.
The Physical Infrastructure itself--here in the US, gas pipes have provided an excellent an ideal place to put and use fiber for telecommunications...check out Wilson Communications who used to be a gigantic Gas company and is now, a telecommunications company. And what about if BPL does come about and we have the utility companies actually offering services?? Another one to think about!
--
Capturing the images of Colorado
»jdebordphoto.com | |
lvlorpheus
join:2008-02-17
Eureka Springs, AR
3 edits | reply to fiberguy
So let me understand your thinking here. Students that are trying to better their selves in this country that commute to college, community college or trade school should drive 30 to 50 miles to get a book or connect to the internet at their campus. Before you respond by saying they should take care of all of that before they leave the campus think a little. Where are there kids going to go. Just stay home alone. Let someone else take care of them. Load them in the car and take them from there school work for the drive.
Have you ever though about changing your name here to string-N-canGuy. fiberguy really seems to conflict with your opinions.
A lot of bill payment and things like that you have to pay a fee to call or go in person. The business side of the internet is changing traditional ways of doing things and forcing customers to use the internet or pay a fee. So people are going to be charged a fee, or use the internet, but the internet is not a necessity.
I am guessing you would say AC is a luxury?
| |
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to HotRodFoto
Yes, you did say "the whole backbone of.." - see your own post.
If your bank discontinues the use of phone banking, then they're in the minority. All the majors, and many small banks I know of still allow phone transactions either automated or live people.
You are right in that the internet is a big player, but, it's still not something that society MUST depend on especially in the private sector. The business side of the internet, as I said, is already using beefier and heavy duty internet services. Already running well on that end.
People have chosen to utilize the internet for a lot, yes, I agree. However, it's still not a necessity. If college students want to use the internet, the campuses have very good lines connecting them. Again, there's no need to have involvement at the campus level.
I still don't think "integral" includes chatting, gaming, email, etc. It's a convenience, yes, I agree, but you can still pick up a piece of paper and stamp and mail. You can pick up the phone and call people. You can play games with out a computer.. it's a nice thing to have and is a luxury. Many people still do not use the internet at all and live life just fine.
When do you need a phone to sustain life? Ever heard of 911? Maybe not. But, when people need medical help, the phone will save your life,.. not the internet. Even if you walk next door to use the phone, is it still the PHONE that is making a call? Please - you're really stretching here to save your side.
You ask if the internet sustains life.. you mention business. However, as I said before - business is business, and what you have in your house are two different things. People still live their lives and "conduct business" with out the internet. Bills can be paid through the mail or phone, doctors appts are set, medicine is ordered, money can be transferred, so can stock. You can order a pizza much easier over the phone than the internet. Anything that you can do in government on the internet can be done in person.
The internet REMAINS a LUXURY. You've provided nothing that can't be done outside of the internet. What you have done is stated that it makes your life easier. Does a car make it easier for you to get from point A to B? Sure.. people can still walk or take a bus, or ride a bike and do the same. Guess what, it takes more effort than the car. Cars are not utilities are they?
What it's going to take to be classified as a luxury, and I doubt it would for MANY years ahead, is where society MANDATES access to certain resources SOLELY to the internet. And even then, I think society/government is smart enough (I just thew up a little in my mouth) to determine that the internet is FAR FAR FAR away from being something to rely and trust certain vital information with as the only means of access.
Maybe down the road, but not now, and not tomorrow. This is my opinion. | |
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
1 edit | reply to BF69
Nope.. I'm not. However, I don't agree with you still.
The internet is not an important service to sustain life like phone, power, gas, or water is.
The same could have been said about Television. The internet, like television, is "information".. why isn't Cable TV a "utility"..? If you ask me, the information that comes across cable is just as important. News and information IS something that can sustain life. If the bomb is going to drop, I'd want/need to know. The internet, in my opinion, is on the same level as TV. You CAN live with out it.
The phone - a life line to emergency services.
Water - you need it to drink and be sanitary.
Electric/Gas - needed to heat and cool.
And, you keep saying "indoor plumbing".. the INDOOR plumbing is NOT the utility. The pipes in the street, however, are. And, not to mention, I still have a house that has no sewer or street pluming. I get water from my own well, and a septic tank in the back does the rest. Of course, in a city you need it.
Until and unless the government mandates certain public resources solely to the internet, which I doubt we'll see for quite some time yet, the internet still isn't a utility.
Please, name ONE thing that can ONLY be done online that is an integral part of society.
Also,.. a lot has changed in 100 years. If you really want to live in the past because it supports your view, then I'd be happy to pull many more things from 100 years ago, but I think many woman and ethnic groups would disagree. | |
HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :The whole back bone of our economy is not the internet. Ever heard of housing? Sheesh.. come on now. Your entire message has done nothing to convince me that the internet is a "utility".. the very nature of "the internet" itself says it is not a utility. Any idea what the "internet" is? People bank on line. Great! They check their balances to see if checks clear and maybe move money. You can't still pick up the phone and do it? (Again, convenience) Research for school. Again, go to the library. They have computers there and the lines are most likely better than you will get at home. Not to mention, last time I checked, books still exist. College courses are still offered in the classroom. Online courses are often offered for conveneince. Yes, I know only SOME courses are offered ONLY online - that's not enough to make the internet a utility. That was a stupid decision on the colleges part. Some people tele-commute - you're right. I'm one of them. Still, it's not a requirement nor do enough people do it to consider it a "utility"... "Business is done and billions of deals exchanged via net meeting, email, online account transfers, and VPN's." So, so, so and so. Those are businesses and are not enough to base the internet on a "utility".. There certainly is no issue on that end of the internet. Why? Those connections are FAR more stable and.. guess what? They PAY for their ACTUAL WORTH! .. not $16.99 a month. You said it right. A lot has changed and "not for me in line of work". You are not THE actual top of the food chain. While it's important to you, and you have integrated it in almost everything you do, that's you. And yes, many people still don't use the internet as their primary source of everything. What you want to do it protect the internet because you, rightfully so, have found ways to make your life easier and most likely cheaper. However, that still, in my opinion, is NOT enough to make the internet, today, a utility. You do not need the internet to sustain life as you do the phone, power, and water. The internet has improved your life, but you do not need it to "sustain" life. Ummmmm you can't pick up the phone and do it, at least not at my credit union...that was phased out a few years ago over security concerns. And I didn't say the whole backbone did I? However it is a BIG time integral player. My beef isn't if it is a utility or not but with your comment about about 'the masses'. Research, yes and what is that you mentioned?? Computers?!? Now where do you think those go to?? Sure they have books, but at the same time, one can't exactly access reports from MIT students can they at their local library. Why does something have to be a requirement? While you say most people don't use the internet for their primary source of everything, well what exactly classifies everything?? It is integral part of life these days, I will say that. And since when do you need a phone to sustain life?? Using your logic, you can easily walk next door and use the neighbors. Water? Sure! Power? Don't even really need that either. Does the internet sustain life?? Well it is embedded in how we do and conduct business these days, if it wasn't so important, things such as CERT wouldn't exist would it? So if the Gov't is protecting such a valuable infrastructure... »www.us-cert.gov/ and is something which is considered vital, I don't know what else ya want to have it be classified as a utility.
--
Capturing the images of Colorado
»jdebordphoto.com | |
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :... and? are you that stupid?
If people like you had their way and not spent money on getting "luxuries" like electricy, indoor plumbing and phones serivce to ALL Americans our country would be considered third world to this day.
The 3% excise tax that had been on phones for over 100 years was actually considered a LUXURY tax meant to get more money form the rich because only the rich had phones and used then to make long distance calls. Funny how things change. One day the internet wil be viewed in the same light as electricy, water and phone service. And since it will be viewed that way one day wait until that day and start accepting it NOW? | |
watice
@rr.com
| reply to qworster
Re: Try it in a college town
just the WORST logic i've seen this year thus far.
Building roads that can handle 100,000 cars an hour, when they only actually handle these loads six hours a day.
During rush hour, at least here in nyc, all lanes slow down. Even though the highway was built to handle mass amounts of traffic, the amount of cars exceeds the available space because more people have cars today than when it was built. Sound familiar? Could the lanes be bandwidth, the nodes be highways, and the cars be.. you get the idea
Building an electric system that can handle a 100 megawatt load, when that load is only used four hours a day during the hottest months of the year.
On the hottest day in NYC in 2003, I'm sweating my balls off when I realize my UPS backup starts beeping. This was the start of a very long 2 day blackout.
Building a cable TV systen that provides 200 channels, even though 80% of the viewers watch the same 10 channels during prime time.
Guess what? IT DOESN'T WORK!!! We're switching to SDV!! We need more bandwidth!
Building a water system that can provide high pressure for fire hydrants, even though fires rarely occur.
You're right, we've built a reliable high pressure system. And fires do rarely occur. Just like bandwidth demands were lower 3 years ago. What would happen if the rate of fires shot up at the same ratio bandwidth demands did? What if every fire hydrant had to put out 2 fires @ the same time? Would we still have enough pressure?
Building an infrastructure of sanders and snow plows that may only be used a few days a year.
Tell you what, if you can get sanders and snow plows to be completly effective and clear all snow and provide a perfect road 24/7 during blizzards, I'll get you unlimited garanteed bandwidth 24/7 even with 300 other users on a node.
Building a drainage system that might only be used every 20 years (or less) during hurricanes (New Orleans?).
Drainage systems are used every day it rains, snows, etc. And they get backed up. You mentioned New Orleans, a perfect example of a not so perfect system.
Building a telephone system that can provide for 10,000 calls an hour when 1/3 of the time it only has to do 1/10th of that.
I'm assuming you're not familiar with the all too familiar "We're sorry, all circuits are busy now. Please try your call again later".
Building a public transit system that can move 50,000 people an hour when it's only used to move that many people 6 hours a day.
Public transportation system scales back during non peak hours. You ever try to get on a crowded train but you can't cause there's a bunch of people on the door, so you gotta wait for the next one? Kinda like a train CAP. Could get on the train with the sleeping smelly bum on it, but there's no QOS in that car. Luckily the train's TCP system will send another train in 3 mins. | |
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | reply to BF69
... and? | |
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to HotRodFoto
The whole back bone of our economy is not the internet. Ever heard of housing? Sheesh.. come on now. Your entire message has done nothing to convince me that the internet is a "utility".. the very nature of "the internet" itself says it is not a utility. Any idea what the "internet" is?
People bank on line. Great! They check their balances to see if checks clear and maybe move money. You can't still pick up the phone and do it? (Again, convenience)
Research for school. Again, go to the library. They have computers there and the lines are most likely better than you will get at home. Not to mention, last time I checked, books still exist.
College courses are still offered in the classroom. Online courses are often offered for conveneince. Yes, I know only SOME courses are offered ONLY online - that's not enough to make the internet a utility. That was a stupid decision on the colleges part.
Some people tele-commute - you're right. I'm one of them. Still, it's not a requirement nor do enough people do it to consider it a "utility"...
"Business is done and billions of deals exchanged via net meeting, email, online account transfers, and VPN's." So, so, so and so. Those are businesses and are not enough to base the internet on a "utility".. There certainly is no issue on that end of the internet. Why? Those connections are FAR more stable and.. guess what? They PAY for their ACTUAL WORTH! .. not $16.99 a month.
You said it right. A lot has changed and "not for me in line of work". You are not THE actual top of the food chain. While it's important to you, and you have integrated it in almost everything you do, that's you. And yes, many people still don't use the internet as their primary source of everything.
What you want to do it protect the internet because you, rightfully so, have found ways to make your life easier and most likely cheaper. However, that still, in my opinion, is NOT enough to make the internet, today, a utility.
You do not need the internet to sustain life as you do the phone, power, and water. The internet has improved your life, but you do not need it to "sustain" life. | |
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy : The internet is NOT a "public utility"... It may be important to YOU or to SOME, but still not to the masses. You know if it was 100 years ago the same arguments would be made about electricity, telephone and indoor plumbing. | |
HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :The internet is NOT a "public utility"... It may be important to YOU or to SOME, but still not to the masses. I don't know what masses yer thinking of, but obviously you must have one in your head if you're thinking like that! Everything these days is driven via the internet. The whole backbone of the economy is, people bank ever day online, research things which are needed for school classes, college courses are taken online, people tele-commute for work. Business is done and billions of deals exchanged via net meeting, email, online account transfers, and VPN's. The times have changed, and this is how the country is run these days. One only needs to look at Google stock prices to see that. You say remove these things and life goes on...can it? Not for me in line of work. | |
pspcrazy
Anime Freak
join:2008-02-06
San Diego, CA | reply to qworster
Nice false analogy bro, if you noticed those are all PHYSICAL things. We're talking about bandwidth people something that can travel by light. It's structure can still be expanded WITHOUT physical limitations so all your analogies are hogwash. | |
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