degauss1
join:2001-07-02
Hillsboro, OR
 ·ViaTalk
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Comcast
·Axvoice
| reply to WasteNot
Re: Gluttony?
In my home we have 2 seperate VoIP phone lines and 3 users (one doing loads of traffic over VPN for telecommuting).
768Kbps would only slow me down dramatically.
People need to realize that not everyone is using the internet to pirate things. My company made a large portion of it's workforce 'mobile' to save $$. I think with gas prices rising sky high many more companies will do the same.
I don't need my full 15/2 bandwidth all day but I do use all very regularly. |
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Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Huntsville, AL
1 edit | reply to slimpickinz
Re: Hey Dumb Ass
Yes, I have been to Atlanta during rush hour. And in my limited experience, its for speed AND volume. (You Atlanta drivers are fucking nuts, 4 lanes side by side going 50 bumper to bumper? I was scared shitless the whole time driving there)
Anyway, how does agreeing that someones analogy is better than mine make me a dumbass? I dont agree with his point, just that his analogy fits better.
amiga_boy, I understand your side, and I can see from a business perspective how that way should work, but when looked at from a consumers perspective, it would be like ordering fries from McD's and only getting a half order because everyone else was ordering fries at the time too.
Its just part of the cost of doing business. In an office, you dont always need someone sitting at the desk to answer phones, because the phone doesnt ring constantly, but you pay someone to be there all the time for when the phone does ring.
*EDIT* huge spelling mistakes |
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kba4
join:2001-10-23
Canton, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to BF69
Re: Gluttony?
of course the amount of data is not the same. HDD's are cheaper than ever, and so is the cost of computing. but somehow it suddenly costs more for the ISP to connect me to their network? of course not- it's all gotten cheaper over time and the only things changing are the number of users (which should take care of itself because users pay for service and that money should be invested at least partly into maintaining the network) and the type of data being transmitted.
ISP's like comcast have long snooped in on users habits and more and more often over the past few years it seems that p2p and video have become targets to isolate and boot. the problem is, these ISP's (I can't speak of comcast, I live in TW territory) like to tout their network's speed and potential uses, actually using pseudo progress bars in ads sometimes with familiar file formats on them (mp3, avi) showing us all just how quickly we can 'stream music, movies, download and share, etc.'. But the moment a sizable number of users decide to use their connections they become hogs.
As I've said, and I'm sure a lot of people will agree with me here: I pay for 15/768 and I'd like to use it without paying a second or third time. I'm not asking for anything for free, I just want what is advertised. If cable's main product (video) wasn't threatened then I seriously doubt there would be any issue raised in the first place.
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"I saw Matlock in a bar last night; the sound was off, but I think I got the gist of it..." |
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XBL2009
------
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL
 ·AT&T Midwest
| reply to WasteNot
said by WasteNot :
Other than those who will use the internet as a giant DVD library, I can't see how anyone fills more than a 128kb pipe.
People like you seem to forget that other people actually exist and have a need/want for more bandwidth. Businesses would love low priced bandwidth instead of being gouged.
I would love to watch more tv show and movies online with better quality, I hate all the buffering and stuttering. I would also like better video conferencing.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Benjamin Franklin
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
1 edit | reply to kba4
said by kba4  :as many others will agree, charter (and the rest of these miserly cable ISP's) is instituting caps not because someone downloads multiple GB's of data, but because that data is more and more often video-data which is competition for the cableco's. they didn't care much 5 years ago did they? no, it wasn't until youtube, and netflix and the other services mentioned by others above went online that suddenly even a few GB became a big deal. if you think the amount of data going through the pipes of the ISPs is the same as it was 5 years ago you're nuts.
Does INTENT really matter to you? You're convicned these caps are for nefarious purposes and no amount of proof is going to pursade you to think otherwise. You also dislike caps so even if the ISPs did have proof that caps where necessary adn you believed them you simply wouldn't give a shit. You want what you think is yours and that's all there is to it. If your ISP said they were going to have caps but the caps was going to be 600 GB a month and only 15 cents per GB overage you'd still be against it.
I don't think at this point that Comcast's proposed 250 GB is to small. That may change in 5 years. Now the overage fees that both TW and Comcast have proposed are a joke.
I've download DU meter on both my computer and my son's. Last month I used 28 GB total both DL and UL my son used 23 GB. He plays games online and downloads demos from Steam all the time. So that's 51 GB total. Now that's doesn't count any XBL useage since I haven't measured that. Not sure if I can. From what I have read on various places even a hardcore gamer wouldn't use more than 15 GB a month. So adding that up that would come to 66 GB. Hell let's round it up to 70 GB just to be safe. I'd still have 180 GB left over using Comcast's cap. |
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kba4
join:2001-10-23
Canton, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to BF69
as many others will agree, charter (and the rest of these miserly cable ISP's) is instituting caps not because someone downloads multiple GB's of data, but because that data is more and more often video-data which is competition for the cableco's. they didn't care much 5 years ago did they? no, it wasn't until youtube, and netflix and the other services mentioned by others above went online that suddenly even a few GB became a big deal. technology has advanced a lot since cable internet started up, logically the cableco's would be embracing the idea of adding users, not creating ways of making them feel unwelcome after showing people doing just what they claim is 'hog activity' on their tv commercials.
is it any coincidence that longtime cap-avoider TW is now seriously considering caps, now that DirecTV has a VOD service that can potentially use the TW network to work?
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"I saw Matlock in a bar last night; the sound was off, but I think I got the gist of it..." |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to alg
said by alg :Last week when my brother was still on vacation we had three computers connected to our 1.5 DSL line. While my mother was doing bills and stuff on the family computer, my dad and I were watching sports on ESPN360 and my brother was doing work related expense reports. Even those modest activities (all 100% legal by the way) were really dragging on the connection (which is the fastest connection we can get for the house). That's not even counting the fact that I cannot stream films from Netflix (another legit activity) even when I have the connection all to myself. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to have faster connections. No one is saying there is anything wrong with FASTER connections. Hell I have 10 Mbps form Charter. It's normally $50 a month. I do not however expect that for $50 that entitles me to download 3 Terrabytes of data in a month. And frankly if someone doing that is going to make MY conenction slow then hell yeah I'm all for Charter capping his ass. |
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alg
Just a shot away
Premium
join:2001-04-10
Houston, TX
clubs: 
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
| reply to WasteNot
Last week when my brother was still on vacation we had three computers connected to our 1.5 DSL line. While my mother was doing bills and stuff on the family computer, my dad and I were watching sports on ESPN360 and my brother was doing work related expense reports. Even those modest activities (all 100% legal by the way) were really dragging on the connection (which is the fastest connection we can get for the house). That's not even counting the fact that I cannot stream films from Netflix (another legit activity) even when I have the connection all to myself. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to have faster connections. |
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slimpickinz
join:2003-11-29
Conyers, GA | reply to Boogeyman
Hey Dumb Ass
If you have ever been in Atlanta during rush hour, the extra lanes are not for speed, but for VOLUME.
And that would apply to the pipe as well. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| reply to BF69
Re: Gluttony?
said by BF69 :said by dadkins :Ever see a large... game demo? Or something like America's Army(1800+MB)? Ever want to maybe play it... TODAY? @ 128kbps, it's going to take you a while to download America's Army.  Some games hit the multi-GB size. Meanwhile, someone with 6mbps+ will get it in a more timely manner and be playing it WAY sooner than - you. Got Steam?  Movies are trying to make a play via internet(Netflix streaming? Movielink? Amazon Unbox?) Care to guess how long it will take someone on a 128 or 256kbps line to download a DVD? A HD movie? How about a 46GB Blu-ray? HD movies from places like XBox Live and Itunes are typically 5-6 GB not 46 GB. Those HD movies are 720p and have bit rates of 4-6 Mbps. Places would never have movies in "blu-ray" format for download. If you mean "blu-ray"-like as in 1080p and 40 Mbps bit rate then ok maybe down the road they might. Yes, that's why I added Blu-ray as it's own line - as another possible future item someone might wish to try and download - if it or similar is ever offered.
What "they" offer as HD currently is... poor at best. 
I'll edit the post to reflect this.
Thanks BF!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx :But we're not ASKING for roads that let you go 160mph. We ARE asking for roads where you can always go 60mph, and if that requires them to upgrade from a 4 lane road to a 12 lane road, well, that's what they should do. Why do they ADVERTISE 160mph, if the only let you do that for 1/2 hour a day? Why do telephone companies advertise that you will reliably get a dial tone (and complete a call) when they know that's not the case when *everybody* tries at the same time?
You're asking for the ISPs to provide capacity which would largely go unused just so they could always meet their advertised rate. Just because you can't accept the idea that they're providing average capacities.
That doesn't sound reasonable to me because, to meet their advertised speed at any time, they'd have a lot of perishable product go unused. That's expensive. If you're willing to pay for it, that's ok.
But, I do agree that if they aren't even trying to tie advertised rates to average usage (and expectations), that's a problem.
Mark |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to amigo_boy
But we're not ASKING for roads that let you go 160mph. We ARE asking for roads where you can always go 60mph, and if that requires them to upgrade from a 4 lane road to a 12 lane road, well, that's what they should do. Why do they ADVERTISE 160mph, if the only let you do that for 1/2 hour a day?
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! |
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Xioden
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
| reply to plat2on1
said by plat2on1 :or you could make install discs through steam for all your games. You still would have to have them downloaded. What if you didn't currently have them downloaded?
What about non-steam games? Plenty of MMOG can be downloaded directly from the patch server. TWC is flaunting some of their new caps as "1 GB allows for 34 hours of gaming". So cool, I don't play that much so that's fine... Oh Wait, This game is 5GB+ Well damn, its going to take me over a month just to download the game unless I want to pay overage charges.
Some games are in the 10GB+ range. Biggest I've downloaded was Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, which was 21GB. Puts a big damper on things such as Steam, Direct2Drive, and any other digital sales. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to dadkins
said by dadkins :Ever see a large... game demo? Or something like America's Army(1800+MB)? Ever want to maybe play it... TODAY? @ 128kbps, it's going to take you a while to download America's Army. Some games hit the multi-GB size. Meanwhile, someone with 6mbps+ will get it in a more timely manner and be playing it WAY sooner than - you. Got Steam? Movies are trying to make a play via internet(Netflix streaming? Movielink? Amazon Unbox?) Care to guess how long it will take someone on a 128 or 256kbps line to download a DVD? A HD movie? How about a 46GB Blu-ray? HD movies from places like XBox Live and Itunes are typically 5-6 GB not 46 GB. Those HD movies are 720p and have bit rates of 4-6 Mbps. Places would never have movies in "blu-ray" format for download. If you mean "blu-ray"-like as in 1080p and 40 Mbps bit rate then ok maybe down the road they might. |
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Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | reply to kba4
Because you work for an ISP? |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to WasteNot
said by WasteNot :
Other than those who will use the internet as a giant DVD library, I can't see how anyone fills more than a 128kb pipe. In what century do you live? We are in the 21st century, with 300-500kbps video streaming to be the average, where online gaming is a profitable industry, where iTunes rules the day (hint: at 128 Kb it would take more then 10 minutes to download a 5 Meg MP3 file) and where companies like BlockBuster and Netflix offer online DVD-rental for a fixed monthly fee. Download a DVD, burn it yourself. Watch it on TV.
Try downloading a 3 Gb+ movie from Netflix using 128 Kb. "Honey, what movie do you want to rent for NEXT tuesday, I need to start downloading it today".  |
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CO_Chris
Premium
join:2001-08-28
Broomfield, CO
·Comcast
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
·Comcast Digital Vo..
1 edit | reply to WasteNot
said by WasteNot :
I can't see how anyone fills more than a 128kb pipe.
We've been very happy with our DSL circuit @ 256kb, though they've "upgraded" to 768k over the years.
128K you are kidding right?
man how can you live on 768k? really you must read email only. It would take days to download my TopGear Ep's at that.
I remember when AOL was upgrading to 56k and i thought that was fast. I can never go back to less then the 8 megs i get from Comcast that's for sure. |
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BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
| reply to Boogeyman
said by Boogeyman :Yes, much better analogy. How much car do you really need?
Do we really need a car with v8 motor that gets 12 mpg? |
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j5
@comcast.net | reply to ninjatutle
its not an excuses some people really do that stuff daily |
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NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
| reply to WasteNot
said by WasteNot :
Other than those who will use the internet as a giant DVD library, I can't see how anyone fills more than a 128kb pipe. Other than me, I can't see how anyone fills more than 256kb of memory...
Same rationale...
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Over ten plus years of carrying The Clue Bat... |
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