I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) in World of Warcraft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20757116 en Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:58:06 EDT Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:58:06 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20817579 ErikVKing : Here's an old Beast Lore pic of Jeztor's War Rider. This is one of the three Horde War Riders that you could get to fly with enough flesh turn-ins. This was one reason people back then actually cared if these guys made it back to town alive. Nowadays both sides release them and leave them to fend for themselves!
--
"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."

Jeztor's War Rider
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20817579 Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:02:42 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20788690 Tehuno : i got a bonereavers edge off rag before i ever got my ice barbed spear, because you could not win an av on my server before cross realm bg's were put in =/ i sure dont miss that. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20788690 Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:16:32 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20787745 Vathral : Didn't read this thread thoroughly but the only ONLY thing I miss were the AV games that could span for days. God I loved those days for some reason. I remember being in one AV game for 19 hours and actually enjoyed it >.>
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Anime / F@H]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20787745 Mon, 14 Jul 2008 06:12:17 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20787359 saillaw :
said by Zyncotl See Profile :

said by Tehuno See Profile :

lol..i dont afk bot, i "earn" my gear. over 10k lifetime kills on 3 toons, dont get those in the cave.
Well, you can if it's the opponents cave, which is really fun if you can pull it off. It's not something a pug will manage, but if you queue with some friends it's pretty funny.
We did this once (before they had the deminishing resources that end the game) and it was a blast! I wish I had taken a screenshot... the pile of bones in the Horde cave was fantastic by the time we were done. Its not easy though, the NPC's in there hit hard and fast and have a quick respawn rate.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20787359 Mon, 14 Jul 2008 01:07:46 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785874 Zyncotl :
said by Tehuno See Profile :

lol..i dont afk bot, i "earn" my gear. over 10k lifetime kills on 3 toons, dont get those in the cave.
Well, you can if it's the opponents cave, which is really fun if you can pull it off. It's not something a pug will manage, but if you queue with some friends it's pretty funny.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785874 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:24:27 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785844 Tehuno :
said by kingdome74 See Profile :

said by Tehuno See Profile :

pvp isnt kill lots of people, collect honor and tokens and do it again and again and again? BORING
It's probably boring sitting in the cave.
lol..i dont afk bot, i "earn" my gear. over 10k lifetime kills on 3 toons, dont get those in the cave. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785844 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:15:40 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785797 kingdome74 :
said by Tehuno See Profile :

pvp isnt kill lots of people, collect honor and tokens and do it again and again and again? BORING
It's probably boring sitting in the cave.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785797 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:00:41 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785756 Tehuno :
said by kingdome74 See Profile :

said by Tehuno See Profile :

want random?
how about where the void sentinel that melee's for 10k and has a 4k aoe is gonna spawn on the m'uru fight?
how about who gets encap on felmyst?
how about who gets portaled on kalecgos? burn on brutallus?

And yet you already knew the result before you began. That's the point. Grind gear X, kill mob Y and brag about Z. Not my cup of tea. What I find exciting about the game is unexpected. You won't find that is any high-end raid group because if something happens you weren't planning you're probably not going to be raiding with that group again. B-O-R-I-N-G.
youve obviously never done any of these fights, or you would realize the amount of impact certain abilities have when they happen to certain people.
if felmyst encaps rogues and mages only, its an easy fight. if he is hitting people with it in populated areas, if the people around them dont move instantly, you lose several people and wipe.

pvp isnt kill lots of people, collect honor and tokens and do it again and again and again? BORING
the only reason i do it is because its so EASY to get tier 5 level gear for doing not a whole lot, and it lets me bypass all of 5 mans, another part of the bigger problem. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785756 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:52:49 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785728 kingdome74 :
said by Tehuno See Profile :

want random?
how about where the void sentinel that melee's for 10k and has a 4k aoe is gonna spawn on the m'uru fight?
how about who gets encap on felmyst?
how about who gets portaled on kalecgos? burn on brutallus?

And yet you already knew the result before you began. That's the point. Grind gear X, kill mob Y and brag about Z. Not my cup of tea. What I find exciting about the game is unexpected. You won't find that is any high-end raid group because if something happens you weren't planning you're probably not going to be raiding with that group again. B-O-R-I-N-G.
--
"And guess what this liberal would be all about. This liberal will be about socializing … uh, um. … would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies. …" - Maxine Waters, D-Cal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785728 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:46:04 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785347 Omega :
said by Zyncotl See Profile :

Again, does it matter? Just because you choose to PvE doesn't mean you should get superior gear to a PvPer. Stop whining about how others play the game. You get your gear your way, if someone chooses a different you can a) go do it their way or b) shut up and enjoy the game your way.
Yes, it does. Gear should be based on effort put in. PVE gear takes more effort to obtain than PVP gear, thus it should be better. Keep in mind, I have no problem with season 4 arena gear because you need a rating to achieve it, thus you just can't lose 10 games in a row and be in top notch gear. All BG gear requires you to do is be in a BG for X number of hours. You don't have to participate, you don't have to help the team, you don't even have to win. It seems the only challenge is to avoid being tagged AFK.

Do you know what you get if you lose X number of BG games in a row? You get honor and tokens which allow you to buy gear.

Do you know what I get if I wipe to a boss X number of times in a row? A repair bill.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785347 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:59:51 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785313 Tehuno : want random?
how about where the void sentinel that melee's for 10k and has a 4k aoe is gonna spawn on the m'uru fight?
how about who gets encap on felmyst?
how about who gets portaled on kalecgos? burn on brutallus?

Pve is infinetly harder than random bg's that pvp'ers do to get their gear. high level arenas are a different story, but how random is it really when 90% of the 2's teams are druid/x, or warrior/x.

my warrior is full t6
shaman is full s1/partial s3
rogue is mostly s2.

ive put a million times more effort into getting the warrior geared compared to the other 2, and no less than 30k gold since i started raiding.

its my own choice and i enjoy raiding, but dont try and tell me some random person could come in and tank my side on m'uru, cause they would get fucking wrecked.

at least blizz put ratings on s4, so skillless scrubs can quit thinking they are good because they lost 10 games a week. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785313 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:53:29 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785308 KCP :
said by Zyncotl See Profile :

said by ErikVKing See Profile :

Next you will say that you *do* have to work hand-in-hand with others to get the honor. To a point that is true, since winning a BG takes a collective effort of sorts and honor comes faster with winning ... but ... you can still lose every BG you're in and get the gear. Whereas if you "lose" every raid you get nothing. See my point here?
So you have no problems with Arena fighting? That takes more than 1 person and always losing will get you nothing. And before you say you still get points.. trash mobs still drop epic loot now and then too and if you never win it'll take forever to get anything.

Just because other people are there doesn't mean you did anything worth obtaining gear. Coordinating people to play WoW takes nothing from all but the officers of a guild, and most of the time it takes 1 of them to say "We're raiding" to make it happen or you find a new guild and ride their coattails. Same difference.

There is no justification for PvE elitism and acting like it is the only valid way to get the best gear.
i apologize for not reading the first page thoroughly. you do have a valid point here. but keep in mind, the guild he is in cannot raid currently. so all him and i do is log in every wednesday (our time) lose 10 times in arena, and get our arena points.

i more recently than not am going heroics. since love to instance, i am going for my badge gear. i'll see how things go with that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785308 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:53:06 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785230 Zyncotl : Again, does it matter? Just because you choose to PvE doesn't mean you should get superior gear to a PvPer. Stop whining about how others play the game. You get your gear your way, if someone chooses a different you can a) go do it their way or b) shut up and enjoy the game your way.
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I'd take the time to insult your intelligence, but you probably wouldn't get it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785230 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:28:39 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785220 Omega :
quote:
LOL, please. I generally stay out of these mindless rants but come on... every goddamn boss is going to act the same goddamn way every goddamn time you fight it. THAT is why I find raiding so boring I want to pull my fingernails out just to stay awake. You can go read guides, blah, blah, blah in the end the mob will only act one way.


For the lower level raid content, of course. But the higher end content, not really. Yes, we all know they only have so many abilities, but there is a random factor.

Archimonde - we all know what he can do, but WHERE will his abilities go? That is the challenge. Kalegcos - we know he will port a group, but which group? you have to adapt to the random element. Felmyst - you find out which section of the area will get her breath ability 5 seconds before she does it, this is while you are DPSing 20+ undead.

It is getting the boss to a killable status that makes raiding fun. That random element still exists. I bet Nihilum and SK-gaming still occasionally wipe on bosses due to that simple random element.

And please, PVP is just as cut and dry and PVE. Uh oh, a PVP group. Hmmm...SL/SL lock, frost mage, sub rogue, discipline priest, BM hunter. You know what each one will do (or at least what they are suppose to do). You know which kill order you need to do.
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Whats smells like blue?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785220 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:26:00 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785148 KCP :
said by Zyncotl See Profile :

You don't get it. You act likes it's hard to get people online to raid. In fact I bet when you go to a raid the only thing YOU ACTUALLY DO is log on. If anyone does anything it's NOT YOU but the GUILD OFFICERS who had to ... wait for it... say "Raid tomorrow guys".

Wow, that's amazing difficult. How do you manage to be so superior to someone who does battlegrounds? Oh you have to be online at 8 instead of 8:30 or else you might not get to go. AMAZING and so deserving of better gear than a PvP'er.
i don't know the type of server you play. i don't know what guild you are in. for all i know, you play a PvE server and just do a lot of BGs for your gear. or raiding can come easy for your guild because you have BT on farm. but what you said here makes absolutely no sence because you don't know what server i play on or what guild i am in or what my guild even does. in my guild, it is hard to get anything going. i blame me. i am the guild master of the guild that ErikVKing is in. (at least on my server; he has a hunter on another.) we have a total of 36 members now.

i quit recruiting because i want to get rid of all of the trash alts that most everyone rolls. in my guild, i have 4 dedicated people: ErikVKing, Tehbur, Ktw and myself. i also have people who will come to help with any raid that i want to if i ask.

but raiding isn't an option right now for my guild. too different of schedules doesn't allow.

i second, VKing, you didn't read what he said. you just assumed what he said and flamed.

edit:

@Kingdom:
its easy to depict how each and every class is going to fight their toon just by their spec. healers are going to heal all of those around them, MAYBE try do dps a little. stun lock rogues are still going to keep people stunned while they do massive dps. hunters are still going to send their pets in and drop a trap. dps-ers are still going to do dps.

GIVEN: their movements are going to be a little bit more sparatic, they are still scripted. tell me, do you use a different strategy when you fight EVERY SINGLE PERSON? no! and if you say you do, you lie. you use what works for your class and spec, and you stick to it. tell me i am wrong.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785148 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:06:31 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785090 anon :
said by Omega See Profile :

But raiding and high end pvping does require some.
Yes. Staying out of fire and reading your class FAQs take large amounts of skill.

...and LOL @ BG players taking no skill. I had a T6 mage (no, not S4, I know the colors) trying to spam polymorph on me in cat form. Yeeeaaah. You'd think the big honking "Immune" popup the first 2-3 times would've been a giveaway. Was pretty funny seeing him get mulched in no time by a S2 warrior.

Maybe it's different in your guild, but coattail runners are alive and well in all content levels.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785090 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:53:14 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785040 kingdome74 : LOL, please. I generally stay out of these mindless rants but come on... every goddamn boss is going to act the same goddamn way every goddamn time you fight it. THAT is why I find raiding so boring I want to pull my fingernails out just to stay awake. You can go read guides, blah, blah, blah in the end the mob will only act one way.

Go find a guide to fight me.

You want to raid have a ball but don't disparage those of us who find doing the same thing over and over and over the same way every time to be a complete waste of time.
--
"And guess what this liberal would be all about. This liberal will be about socializing … uh, um. … would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies. …" - Maxine Waters, D-Cal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20785040 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:41:38 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20784860 Omega :
said by Zyncotl See Profile :

You don't get it. You act likes it's hard to get people online to raid. In fact I bet when you go to a raid the only thing YOU ACTUALLY DO is log on. If anyone does anything it's NOT YOU but the GUILD OFFICERS who had to ... wait for it... say "Raid tomorrow guys".

Wow, that's amazing difficult. How do you manage to be so superior to someone who does battlegrounds? Oh you have to be online at 8 instead of 8:30 or else you might not get to go. AMAZING and so deserving of better gear than a PvP'er.
Raiding is just more than just getting people online. A lot more. I'm sure you are such an experienced wow player, maybe some Karazhan and season 1 pvp gear?

Raiding requires coordination and general knowledge of boss fights and abilities. And guess what, they are FAR superior than people who only BG in this game. IMO only the pvpers who legitimately reached 2000+ rating are on the same "skill" level in wow as end content raiders.

You try finding a guild and riding their coattails in sunwell. It simply isn't going to happen. In my guild, if you are sucking on a particular night, we remove you from the raid. No "oh give him another chance" screw up or suck and you're out.

and btw, I fully realize it does not take a whole lot of skill to be good in WoW. But raiding and high end pvping does require some. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20784860 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:01:57 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20783999 Tehuno : and then there is sunwell, where you weed out the paste eaters and coattail riders, maybe they can get by kalecgos, but not brutallus +.
seriously though, it is a little more difficult to get people to log on when youve wiped 200+ times to the same boss, people get demoralized, and stop wanting to log on. personally i know we just recruited like 6 new people to fill out.

so please, lets not try and there isnt attendance issues with raiding, because there most certainly is. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20783999 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 10:53:41 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20783827 Zyncotl : Yes, you're right. It's hard to join a guild and ride coattails. Amazingly challenging.
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I'd take the time to insult your intelligence, but you probably wouldn't get it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20783827 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:52:30 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20783504 ErikVKing :
said by Zyncotl See Profile :

You don't get it. You act likes it's hard to get people online to raid. In fact I bet when you go to a raid the only thing YOU ACTUALLY DO is log on. If anyone does anything it's NOT YOU but the GUILD OFFICERS who had to ... wait for it... say "Raid tomorrow guys".

Wow, that's amazing difficult. How do you manage to be so superior to someone who does battlegrounds? Oh you have to be online at 8 instead of 8:30 or else you might not get to go. AMAZING and so deserving of better gear than a PvP'er.
Wait for it, wait for it ...........................................

LOL!

I won't even bother telling you how foolish you sound, since you don't really even read what someone posted. Good day sir!
--
"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20783504 Sun, 13 Jul 2008 06:01:58 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20780806 Zyncotl : You don't get it. You act likes it's hard to get people online to raid. In fact I bet when you go to a raid the only thing YOU ACTUALLY DO is log on. If anyone does anything it's NOT YOU but the GUILD OFFICERS who had to ... wait for it... say "Raid tomorrow guys".

Wow, that's amazing difficult. How do you manage to be so superior to someone who does battlegrounds? Oh you have to be online at 8 instead of 8:30 or else you might not get to go. AMAZING and so deserving of better gear than a PvP'er.
--
I'd take the time to insult your intelligence, but you probably wouldn't get it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20780806 Sat, 12 Jul 2008 14:47:22 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20779661 ErikVKing : @veunad:
It seems on my Battlegroup things are pretty much the opposite. Alliance win 99.99% of the AVs, Horde normally win EotS (unless it's Horde PuG vs. Ally pre-made then the Ally win ~90%), and WSGs are 50/50 a lot of the time (and sadly take forever with all the morons in the middle fighting).

@Zyncotl:
You just don't get it, do you? Let's see you queue solo to an SSC raid, or TK run, and just run around killing stuff with no order or strat and get even trash down. Unless you want the quick honor and wins like most of us do, you could do just that in a BG and get the badges and honor you need. A prime example is the people that always HK farm etc. They still have the gear, and still get the honor/badges, but unless they are on a node or getting a flag, they aren't really making a win easier...

Arena is different, but then again it's *TWO* people minimum, not *TEN*. Yes if you don't want to wait forever to get the S4 pieces you're going to have to win more than lose and keep a decent rating ... but it's still not 10 people at a minimum to get. Both raids and arenas will likely take a long time to get all of the pieces you are really wanting, but only one of these takes a combined effort ... shall I say it again?

@Everyone saying that anyone complaining about the PvE/PvP gears:
I'm not worried about it at all, I'm not saying anything about how people want to play to have fun, I'm not saying that people need to enjoy the game the way that I do.

If you read what I say and not infer into it, you'll see that all I want is to have it make more sense. Hell, I'm going after the PvP gears right now, as you can see in another post of mine. Why? Because I know they are guaranteed loot that I can work for on a short-playing basis (i.e. with my lag and my constant disconnects, as well as my shortage of playtime). Assuming I can stay connected I can get at least a piece of non-rated gear a week, and then not long after I get the non-rated I can work on the rated pieces. It just takes time, and ... it only takes ... me! Wow, that keeps coming up here, go figure.

As far as PvP-geared people taking your slot in the raid goes. I guarantee the guy that has spent the few weeks it's take to get rid of his blues & greens will likely take a slot over the guy that is still in blues & greens. Yes that is depending on the class and the gear, but most likely the PvP epics will end up giving better PvE stats despite the PvP stats such as stam/resil taking the place of spirit/int/etc.

Yaddah yaddah yaddah really, we will all play as we prefer to play. I'll still have the same opinions about PvP gears vs. PvE gears. And we'll all still play with our pixels on a daily basis.

This thread was about pre-BC days and I guess this discussion is partly about the same, but to the question of do I miss the pre-BC days?

Emphatically YES I miss the old days a lot.
--
"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20779661 Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:26:15 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20776851 badtrip : I certainly miss the "Good ol' days" of pre-BC WoW.

There were some things about old school WoW I didn't like, like dishonorable kills, weekend long AVs, decaying honor and tedious rep grinds.

But for the most part, the old world instances were much more fun, albeit longer and the attunement quests to UBRS, Scholomance, BWL and Ony were great.

Sure, when you were grinding LBRS for your Seal of Ascension gems you were cursing Blizz, but after you had that wonderful key, you were the second coming on a younger server. Many a guild surely died a horrible death due to the fact that everyone in the guild was too lazy for someone to get attuned to UBRS; the key being a pivotal prerequisite for proper raid progression.

Add to that, my main was a warlock back in the day and in AV, he was truly an overpowered destroyer of worlds.

That's not to say BC sucks. I still have a great time running instances with my son and the time I spent leveling my Pally in the Ghostlands was without a doubt the most fun I ever had in WoW. Being a huge Warcraft fan (lore and previous games), I did every single quest there and was sad when it was finally time to leave.

I truly hope that WotLK encapsulates some of that Warcraft3 magic that the Ghostlands had...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20776851 Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:24:43 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20776647 annimossity : LOL old honor system? As someone who grinded rank 14 with 6 other people on a low pop server it was a nightmare. I highly doubt anyone who tried grinding a higher rank would be for this. Not to mention if your on a high pop server good luck, there is no way I could have done it on one. There were guys on Kil Jaeden getting 1.4 million CP a week which is insane. To reach that amount that is literally non stop playing 24/7 or multiple ppl playing the account constantly and pretty much winning every game for 4-5 months.

No thank you trying to get 40 ppl on and getting dead weight sub par players to fill the raid. My friends and I were all in the same guild on the day wow released and ended up disbanding after about 3 weeks when we made it to the twin emps in AQ. The reason why is the fights there started buckling down where everyone needed to be on there game and didnt suck. with 40 ppl that is a big issue, so many guilds disbanded doing that instance. It ended up being about 2-3 guilds that all the good/decent players went to and then went on to finish AQ and Nax.

I think WoW as it is now is better then it used to be. I can do 10 mans with all of my friends which is a blast. NEVER any loot drama and is nothing but fun, I cant say the same for any 40 man I've done. PVP system isn't perfect but WAY WAY better then the old honor system, not even close. I love arenas and think they're a blast my friends and I really enjoy them. It was nice to see them implement something competitive that required skill instead of time spent. There is just way more stuff to do on WoW now without dedicating so much time. Pre BC Wow when you logged in you were either farming or raiding if you wanted to improve your char. PVP was just a fun thing to do here with no rewards unless you wanted to dedicate a few months of your life.

People should really give a rats @ss what other people do. I don't do 25 mans because it reminds me of the 40 man days which I'm not interested in doing. I don't hate or bash PVE'ers because of this, they're doing what's fun for them. If some guy wants to spend all week in AV getting his season 2 set instead of doing Kara/heroics who cares, he's having fun.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20776647 Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:40:45 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20773799 Sithra :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

said by Sithra See Profile :

said by ErikVKing See Profile :

PvP:
. I do agree that they made it too hard for people to get ranked, but at the same time how can you expect them *not* to "punish" you for not being on when others are playing and getting more HKs, more wins, etc.?

It should be a measure of skill, not how much time you can spend online, the old Honor system was utterly retarded.
And the gear now is about skill?
More so than pre-tbc, yes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20773799 Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:01:47 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20773792 anon :
said by Zyncotl See Profile :

Stop caring how others get THEIR gear or spend THEIR time.
Amen.

I just really don't understand the calibur of people that see others having fun, and then piss/whine/moan about them having fun...especially when the two worlds do not cross at all.

PvP-tards aren't going to be replacing you in raids.
PvE-tards aren't going to be hurting your arena ratings.

I just don't understand why people see others enjoying themselves, and feel compelled to dismiss/degrade/mock/etc. them. Is it so they feel better about themselves? Is it such a bad thing that other people are having fun with their games?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20773792 Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:58:49 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20773782 anon :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

Next you will say that you *do* have to work hand-in-hand with others to get the honor. To a point that is true, since winning a BG takes a collective effort of sorts and honor comes faster with winning ... but ... you can still lose every BG you're in and get the gear. Whereas if you "lose" every raid you get nothing. See my point here?
I've seen the most incompetant boobs get carried through content and pick up gear. There are also those that pay for a raid spot on such content to gather up the drops.

You can keyboard faceroll yourself to PvE gear much the same way you can do so honor farming in PvP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20773782 Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:49:31 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20773642 saillaw :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

I was semi-striving for the HWL title, and made it to Lt. General/Rank 11 or Champion/Rank 10 (I forget exactly) but let it decay to Legionnaire/Rank 8 since I got bored of PvP.
When they converted the honor system they let you keep your highest title ever earned... so if you don't remember what rank you reached, just look at your available titles, that's it.
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Fling your poo! Millions of Monkies cant be wrong!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20773642 Fri, 11 Jul 2008 03:59:38 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20771520 Zyncotl :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

Next you will say that you *do* have to work hand-in-hand with others to get the honor. To a point that is true, since winning a BG takes a collective effort of sorts and honor comes faster with winning ... but ... you can still lose every BG you're in and get the gear. Whereas if you "lose" every raid you get nothing. See my point here?
So you have no problems with Arena fighting? That takes more than 1 person and always losing will get you nothing. And before you say you still get points.. trash mobs still drop epic loot now and then too and if you never win it'll take forever to get anything.

Just because other people are there doesn't mean you did anything worth obtaining gear. Coordinating people to play WoW takes nothing from all but the officers of a guild, and most of the time it takes 1 of them to say "We're raiding" to make it happen or you find a new guild and ride their coattails. Same difference.

There is no justification for PvE elitism and acting like it is the only valid way to get the best gear.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20771520 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:07:19 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20771385 veunad : Speaking of the gear as a side item, the thing that is wearing on me the most about the current state of the game, is the PvP gearing/reward system has totally ruined the competitive game play in BGs… You are rewarded for just showing up rather than playing the game at a competitive level.

Nowadays on my Battlegroup the breakdown is thus,

AV -Horde wins 71% of the time

Since 2.4.X horde has gone to speed runs and we dropped our win rate from 90%... now 1/3 of games are speed runs. 10-15min. Alliance usually wins those, the rest of the time. Someone caps Snowfall, and forces a defensive game… or rare (of late we start with a solid defensive effort), and totally kick some arse.

EoTS -Horde wins 40% of the time

However, when we logon to EoTS, we are outnumbered, and within 60 seconds it is the alliance at 300(ish) and horde at (60ish) with the alliance holding three nodes and the flag. Horde players stop laying calling out for “just let them win”.

WSG - Horde wins 56% of the time

This by far is the most balanced and fun, as you often can get good PUGs, you can easily turn around a losing session, and with it being a 10 man queue times are nearly instantaneous. Too bad I personally dislike the WoW CFT game… but its growing on me as these are the most competitive today. However if alliance are up 2/0 horde often stop playing and just farm HKs, when it just takes a bit of coordination to turn it around in, very little time, unless horribly outgeared.

AB - Horde wins 51% of the time

These often start short handed like EoTS, but can relatively easily be overcome with organization, but to many duelist, challengers, just run around and try to kill shit and ruin the game. This BG has the most people crying “just let them 5 cap”. I spend more of my time fighting my fellow horde, by capping one node and telling them I will keep them in here a as long as possible until they actually start to play (or learn the BG) /AFK out of the match to keep their honor per hour quota, or cancel their account.

The net result is the “game play” is gone from games… hell on my server I have even seen premade form up just to sit on the rock and collect 1 mark every two minutes... freaking retards.

Thus, I can say I miss the good ol’ days of fun competitive PvP battlegrounds. THe problem with the percentages is its either win BIG or don't try at all. (E.g. Win trading & non-participation - In my book).

NOTE: The above percentages are taken from HonorFU since January.
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-- When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy. -- Author, Dave Barry]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20771385 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:33:50 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769267 ErikVKing : Go ahead and walk into Gruul's and solo it 20 times, and then make sure they drop the Tier piece you need on the 20th time. That's the equivalent of getting the PvP gear. Whether you afk your way through a raid (which, if your raid leader(s) are on the ball you will only do once) it still takes 9 or 24 other people to be there with you, whereas the BG takes ... ONE person, you.

I'm not saying that any part of the game is about gear. gear is a side-note to me, the content is what I prefer. But, the fact is, gear is a large portion of the game regardless of what you do. It's your reward for playing the game, as it were, and the fact that someone can still grind out decent gear by not having to work hand-in-hand with others gripes me.

Next you will say that you *do* have to work hand-in-hand with others to get the honor. To a point that is true, since winning a BG takes a collective effort of sorts and honor comes faster with winning ... but ... you can still lose every BG you're in and get the gear. Whereas if you "lose" every raid you get nothing. See my point here?
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769267 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:47:47 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769075 Zyncotl : Anyone crying about people getting gear from PvP while they have to "work for it" in PvE are elitist asses who think they deserve something for playing the game their way.

The problem isn't how PvP works it's how PvE drops work. And even excluding that YOU CHOOSE how to play the game. If the PVP gear is as good as PVE than PVP. If you don't like it, quit. Just because you run with 24 other people doesn't really show any skill or talent. You are facing static content that someone else told you how to do, that you simply follow a predetermined role, and repeat it ad nauseum until luck has your item drop. Yet a new player can step in and in 1 raid of riding coattails can walk out with a whole arsenal of new gear. It happens all the time and far more often that a person getting handed pvp gear.

PVE shouldn't be about gear it should be about experiencing the content. If you're bored of it because you ran it 20 times it doesn't entitle you to better gear than a PVP who ran the same instance 20 times as well. Gear comes in a predetermined way it's up to your to decide if your way is worth it or not. Stop caring how others get THEIR gear or spend THEIR time.
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I'd take the time to insult your intelligence, but you probably wouldn't get it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20769075 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:10:09 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20768971 ErikVKing :
said by Sithra See Profile :

said by ErikVKing See Profile :

PvP:
. I do agree that they made it too hard for people to get ranked, but at the same time how can you expect them *not* to "punish" you for not being on when others are playing and getting more HKs, more wins, etc.?

It should be a measure of skill, not how much time you can spend online, the old Honor system was utterly retarded.
And the gear now is about skill? You can get full Merci and Vindicator's with just putting enough time in, and the majority of the Guardian pieces are the same as well. You can the Brutal gloves with just a few weeks or less of Arena time, and the Guardian Bracers/ring & Brutal boots require points and a handful of wins thrown in to get/keep the 1575/1650 & 1500 rating.

The rest of the Brutal requires extra skill to get I'll admit, but I can the the MH and OH weps for my Shaman with more points grinding as well, and you can't tell me they don't stack up to most PvE gears.

The patience it'll take to get the points with no skill in the Arena (i.e. losing all 10 games each week and letting the points add up) will be the factor in that. The old Honor system was semi-retarded, like I said, because of the amount of time you had to put into keeping the title... But, just like the Arena, if all you want is the gear you grind out the title in the old days and the points/rating now and wear the gear.

Like I said, the old system would work fine today if they made Honor decay slower or did some other refining. But (as I also said) in the old days you couldn't expect a guy that had 30,000 HKs to be in the same ranking as the guy that had 50,000 (assuming the 30k and 50k both started at zero at the same time). That just would not make sense. It would be like letting the team that lost 5/10 arena matches be in the same rating as the team that lost 1/10.
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20768971 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:47:58 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20768637 Sithra :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

PvP:
. I do agree that they made it too hard for people to get ranked, but at the same time how can you expect them *not* to "punish" you for not being on when others are playing and getting more HKs, more wins, etc.?

It should be a measure of skill, not how much time you can spend online, the old Honor system was utterly retarded.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20768637 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:18:29 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20768522 ErikVKing :
said by Omega See Profile :

I guarantee not ONE of you missing the old PVP system ever attempted to get rank 14....or rank 9 for that manner.

The old days were NOT all that.

PVP:
honor grind was horrible. I remember I was getting up there and then went on a family trip to Florida. I lost nearly 2 ranks in 1 week. Getting punished for not being online? That is not a good design.

Players on some servers attempted to enforce "soft" caps so that they could earn the title and still see the sunlight. Many people (not all) who achieved rank 14 did it by having multiple people on the account.

People who PVP'd for blues were basically two shotted by MC raiders.

PVE:
REP grinds were horrible. I sure loved killing undead or furbogs for 5 rep per kill.
40 mans FTL. 25 people working hard, 15 AFK. It wasn't until AQ40/Naxx that true raid strategy came into play. (Maybe with the exception of Nef and Chromaggus).
Raiding was the only way to get gear. You could either devote a crapton of time to clear raids every week (and share loot with 39 other people) or not be geared.
Tokens weren't introduced until AQ40.
Off-specs were laughed at. Every have a prot/ret pally or a feral druid in raid? I think not.

I think my only true complaint about TBC is the lack of viability my raid gear has in world PVP. I'm not asking for OMGPVP gear, just that I don't think I should be as killable in PVE gear which was earned with a lot of time to someone who got their season 2 in BG's.
PvP:
I guarantee you are incorrect. I was semi-striving for the HWL title, and made it to Lt. General/Rank 11 or Champion/Rank 10 (I forget exactly) but let it decay to Legionnaire/Rank 8 since I got bored of PvP. I do agree that they made it too hard for people to get ranked, but at the same time how can you expect them *not* to "punish" you for not being on when others are playing and getting more HKs, more wins, etc.?

The Arena tries to make it so that people are getting rewards for playing more, but I kind of wish they would have stepped down the difficulty of accessing the old reward style (making honor decay slower, etc.) as well as adding the Arena. In the old style you could at least get on, play your game the way you wanted to and not have to rely on 1, 2, or 4 other people to be on enough times during the week when you are to keep a rank.

I admit that the old 3 day long AVs were frustrating at times when you wanted the Marks for the FGH turn-ins, and things of that sort, but... At least then you could do the many things available during those times, such as summoning Lok and the air guys (forgetting their titles atm). Getting enough blood, flesh, and scraps was a viable way to help your side. Getting people to help summon Lok and enough people to defend you while you did the summoning was tough, but you felt like you were doing something more with your game than just getting to one side or the other of the map the fastest.

The way it is now Blizzard might as well take out the flesh, blood, scraps, etc. completely and remove the ability to summon since there's no time and no reason to do it now. I loved folowing a giant ice lord up to the keeps and targeting/assisting him to help wipe out person after person, and watching him grow. All that was a blast to me, and felt more like an epic battle.

PvE: 40 mans were a lot more fun and a lot more strategic than this 25 and 10-man crap. Yes it's easier to get 25 people together, and yes it makes the smaller guilds able to do some content they may not have otherwise been able to, but 40 people together and chatting strategies in Vent...? Priceless in my book!

Raiding was the only way to get gear? I beg to differ. Yes, at that time the PvP gear didn't out-do most of the PvE content like it does now, but even then there were PvP pieces that you wouldn't upgrade for a while into PvE raids. That pissed me off to no end, and now it's even worse. I understand the need to allow solo or casual players the ability to get decent gears and thus keeping them interested...

But allowing them T5 or near T5 equivalent gear by just grinding honor? Ridiculous IMO! If you can get gear equivalent by soloing to that of the gear taking 25 people coordinating together to get...makes no sense to me.

I'd like to see a combination of old and new, and also see a revamping of old-world that lets us go back and do it not just for nostalgia but for the fact there is new and decent gear there, even at 70.
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20768522 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 07:27:44 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20760655 kingdome74 : Must be none of you were mages. I loved the days long HK AV's. I could go in aoe the crap out of SF GY and bolt up the ranks. I always felt sorry for the wars and rogues with no real aoe but for mages it was heaven. Wasn't bad for hunters either. It made players play and this bullshit we have now is a complete joke.
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"And guess what this liberal would be all about. This liberal will be about socializing … uh, um. … would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies. …" - Maxine Waters, D-Cal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20760655 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:04:13 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20760074 Kearnstd : the thing i like about the current era of WoW is that smaller guilds like mind can raid both big and small content. we can run through 10mans no problem and can still field enough for progression raids.

as for pvp i think as a mage it changed greatly since resil made the crit em into a crater forever gone.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20760074 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:04:58 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20759903 03985496 :
said by JSY See Profile :

Are you kidding me? Maybe you yearn for parts of the old PVP system, but the old system was horrible with it's decaying honor crap and how you'd have to PVP all day for 7 days in a row just to barely maintain your title. And DKs? I don't mind DKs, but don't tell me that you didn't get mega-pissed when someone in your raid killed a civilian while raiding Tarren Mill or something. I think the current system is flawed that it does reward people for just standing around, but the old system was more screwed up. You might miss parts of it, but I doubt most people would rather it totally come back like it was.

I also don't remember any love for AVs that were days long, either.
That's exacly my point, I have so many 70s full arena + BG gear in no time. Indeed the new system is nice, but this also makes PvP guilds useless.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20759903 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:37:47 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20758939 Omega : I guarantee not ONE of you missing the old PVP system ever attempted to get rank 14....or rank 9 for that manner.

The old days were NOT all that.

PVP:
honor grind was horrible. I remember I was getting up there and then went on a family trip to Florida. I lost nearly 2 ranks in 1 week. Getting punished for not being online? That is not a good design.

Players on some servers attempted to enforce "soft" caps so that they could earn the title and still see the sunlight. Many people (not all) who achieved rank 14 did it by having multiple people on the account.

People who PVP'd for blues were basically two shotted by MC raiders.

PVE:
REP grinds were horrible. I sure loved killing undead or furbogs for 5 rep per kill.
40 mans FTL. 25 people working hard, 15 AFK. It wasn't until AQ40/Naxx that true raid strategy came into play. (Maybe with the exception of Nef and Chromaggus).
Raiding was the only way to get gear. You could either devote a crapton of time to clear raids every week (and share loot with 39 other people) or not be geared.
Tokens weren't introduced until AQ40.
Off-specs were laughed at. Every have a prot/ret pally or a feral druid in raid? I think not.

I think my only true complaint about TBC is the lack of viability my raid gear has in world PVP. I'm not asking for OMGPVP gear, just that I don't think I should be as killable in PVE gear which was earned with a lot of time to someone who got their season 2 in BG's.
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Whats smells like blue?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20758939 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:49:37 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20758872 pp03 : I used to miss it, but as time goes by and I have less and less dedication to the game. I like where they are going :P
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The History Channel rocks! ... you know it!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20758872 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:38:55 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20758816 JIGA : Ah, the good ole days of non-battlegroups. Where you would sit in the queue for eternity! Nope, don't miss'em :D

I only had one toon up to 60 pre-BC. The only thing I miss really is players not having resilence.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20758816 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:31:30 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20758595 Forlin : I remember quitting one AV, logging off for a few days, logging back on and after thinking I got into a new AV found out it was the same one I left a few days ago. Ahh those were the days indeed.. but I don't particularly miss them. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20758595 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:57:36 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20758057 JSY : Are you kidding me? Maybe you yearn for parts of the old PVP system, but the old system was horrible with it's decaying honor crap and how you'd have to PVP all day for 7 days in a row just to barely maintain your title. And DKs? I don't mind DKs, but don't tell me that you didn't get mega-pissed when someone in your raid killed a civilian while raiding Tarren Mill or something. I think the current system is flawed that it does reward people for just standing around, but the old system was more screwed up. You might miss parts of it, but I doubt most people would rather it totally come back like it was.

I also don't remember any love for AVs that were days long, either.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20758057 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:12:20 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20758001 ERogerC :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

I kind of miss the DK PvP days, where if someone killed civilians and such they'd get docked for their honor. I also kind of liked the old way of PvP titles where only so many people could be High Warlord, etc.

Yeah it was a grind to get the titles, and you had to play pretty much non-stop to not only get the title but to keep it as well... But to me it was more of an honor to wear that title than the system they have now.
I agree. I am trying to get my AB and WSG rep up so I can get the title for being exalted with the pvp factions (only 200 more WSG wins and 250 AB)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20758001 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:04:33 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20757294 ErikVKing : I kind of miss the DK PvP days, where if someone killed civilians and such they'd get docked for their honor. I also kind of liked the old way of PvP titles where only so many people could be High Warlord, etc.

Yeah it was a grind to get the titles, and you had to play pretty much non-stop to not only get the title but to keep it as well... But to me it was more of an honor to wear that title than the system they have now.
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"You are not your fucking khakis!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20757294 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 06:59:02 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20757280 kingdome74 : I miss the two days AV's. I liked the old HK system for gear which meant no one could just stand around and get the same gear as those who were fighting. I do like the cross-server action but we need to go back to the old system for PvP gear because the honor system has ruined the battlegrounds.
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"And guess what this liberal would be all about. This liberal will be about socializing … uh, um. … would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies. …" - Maxine Waters, D-Cal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20757280 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 06:45:49 EDT Re: I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20757247 ErikVKing : I'll likely get modded for linking to another thread again, but this thread I am linking is talking about the old days of AQ40, etc. too: »Revisiting AQ40

I agree, I miss the old days, and I wish they were the same ... but I still play, and there is still stuff I want to do, so... They haven't done *that* bad at keeping things up to par, or they'd have lost half the people that currently play still :D
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"You are not your fucking khakis!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20757247 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 06:14:17 EDT I miss the good old days :'( (Pre-BC) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20757116 03985496 : Am I alone in this, or does everyone miss Pre-BC, when things were actually good. Tier gear looked AWESOME, and was worth getting. And raiding was more fun. Like PuGing Ony, and on a rare occasion Molten Core.

And when PvP was actually fun, and didnt just matter on the fact if me (a rogue) fought a warrior i would be owned very easily.

But it actually mattered about gear.

For example... A warrior has about 10k+ health easy. We hit about... 800crit backstabs on them, with 81dps epic daggers....

Every warrior has a Might of Menithil X2.... Not balanced.. But anyways, enough of my QQ'ing about balance...

I just miss pre-bc days, am I alone, or do you guys agree that blizz sucks bad, and keeping this a fun game? =\]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20757116 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 03:48:18 EDT