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  digitalfreak
join:2005-12-09 49533
| reply to TKJunkMail Re: So much for a Democratic Congress.....
said by TKJunkMail :said by moonpuppy :Just proves my point that Congress is bought and paid for no matter what the party affiliation. No, it just proves most Congresscritters recognize the need to spy on our enemy and face the reality of the world as it is today. LOL. Just LOL. | |  moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD
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| reply to Blackened said by Blackened :France also targets religions known for certain crimes and heinous acts. Although, they do it officially, while the U.S. does it unofficially against Muslims, and has it's own history of open hate or bias against gays, women, blacks, italians, germans, japanese, etc. The French, like the U.S., have laws stating freedom of religion. Granted, they can use a bit less paranoia, but sure as hell can the U.S. So because France has laws that allow them to discriminate it is o.k? Stalin would be proud. 
And how does the US "unofficially" discriminate against Muslims? | |  Blackened Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29
| said by moonpuppy :And how does the US "unofficially" discriminate against Muslims? »www.nytimes.com/2006/06/01/us/na···&emc=rss Terror Fears Hamper U.S. Muslims' Travel quote: Azhar Usman, a burly American-born Muslim with a heavy black beard, says he elicits an almost universal reaction when he boards an airplane at any United States airport: conversations stop in midsentence and the look in the eyes of his fellow passengers says, "We're all going to die!"
quote: Next month, the American Civil Liberties Union will go back to court to broaden a suit on behalf of Muslims and Arab-Americans who are demanding the United States government come up with a better system for screening travelers.
The delays, humiliation and periodic roughing up have prompted some American Muslims to avoid traveling as much as possible. Some even skip meeting anyone at the airport for fear of a nasty encounter with a law-enforcement officer. Those who do venture forth say they are always nervous.
quote: Mr. Salhab, 36, says his family remains shaken by their treatment at the border. Officers, their hands on their guns, swarmed around his vehicle, barking at him to get out as alarm bells clanged, he said.
"If I had sneezed or looked the wrong way, who knows what would have happened," Mr. Salhab said in a telephone interview. "I feared for my life."
Now, he said, every time his daughter, 4, sees uniformed officers, she asks if they are going to take him away.
"What happened to me at the border is inexcusable," Mr. Salhab said.
A complaint filed with the Department of Homeland Security in January got Mr. Salhab a form letter saying the government was looking into the situation. There has been no further response.
A number of American Muslims similarly upset by how federal agents treated them and their families are seeking relief through the courts. About eight men with Muslim or Arab roots are joining a suit already filed last year by the American Civil Liberties Union branch in Illinois demanding that the government improve its treatment of returning American citizens.
But similar suits have made little headway. In general, the Constitution protects all Americans against unreasonable search and seizure. But much more aggressive searches have been deemed reasonable at airports and at the border than elsewhere. Just how elastic that standard can be is what the lawsuits are addressing.
quote: Still, traveling makes many Muslim Americans feel like second-class citizens. Mr. Ahmed, the comedian, often travels wearing a T-shirt that says "Got rights?"
-- Moore/Alexander 2008
Conservatives love religious-like aphorisms so here's one: "Freedom isn't free. It's Made in China." | |   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
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| reply to TKJunkMail said by TKJunkMail :No, it just proves most Congresscritters recognize the need to spy on our enemy and face the reality of the world as it is today. No, it just proves most Congresscritters believe the need to spy on American citizens to protect their Governmental authority. -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |  moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | reply to Blackened Maybe if they were out more against their radical brothers and sisters, they would not be in the predicament they are in.
Want to talk about the 6 Muslim men on a Southwest Airlines flight who deliberately disobeyed flight crew orders to stop moving around the cabin and acting suspiciously?
How about this case:
quote: Muslim women at Love Field "acting suspiciously" Camouflage pants under traditional Muslim garb.
"Women at Love Field 'acting suspiciously': Dallas: Police have no evidence Muslims have ties to terrorists," by Jason Trahan for the Dallas Morning News, with thanks to Doc Washburn:
Dallas police and federal terrorism officials are investigating two women, both dressed in camouflage pants under their traditional Muslim robes and scarves, who were seen conducting what appeared to be surveillance and acting suspiciously at Dallas Love Field. One of the women, Kimberly "Asma" Al-Homsi, 42, of Arlington, who is on probation for a 2005 Garland road rage incident involving a fake grenade, is said to have long-range assault rifle and explosives training, according to a Dallas police intelligence bulletin issued March 5.
"I'm a trained sniper and proud of it," Ms. Al-Homsi said in an interview Thursday after first refusing to comment on whether she has any terrorism ties. She then said no.
Police officials said they have no direct evidence the women have ties to terrorism.
"I am not a dangerous individual," said Ms. Al-Homsi, who said she is an accountant who has dual Syrian-U.S. citizenship.
On the afternoon of Feb. 25, Ms. Al-Homsi and a friend who could not be reached for comment, Aisha Abdul-Rahman Hamad, 50, of Irving, were spotted at Love Field wearing Muslim robes and camouflage pants and "acting suspiciously," the bulletin states. The surveillance video shows one of the women walking back and forth, apparently pacing off distances.
When confronted, the women told officials they were looking for the Frontiers of Flight museum. They left in a red Honda. Descriptions of the incident and the car were circulated at the airport.
Two days later, the museum executive director was leaving for the evening when he noticed the Honda parked facing the runway. A woman, later identified as Ms. Al-Homsi, was sitting on the hood, looking through binoculars at the airplanes. He told the women the museum was closing, and they left.
Dallas officers stopped the car nearby, but the women refused to let police search their car, , according to a police report. The women had digital camera memory cards, binoculars, a flashlight and several lighters on them.
Police issued one of them a citation for having no front license plate and failing to change her address on a driver's license. They were released.
"We were watching the airplanes," Ms. Al-Homsi said. "That's not a crime, unless you're Muslim."
| |  Blackened Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29
| How does this disprove the U.S. discriminates? Not sure where you're going with this, although it is ironic that Americans are essentially criminals in the fight against who-knows-what "terrorism" abroad, needing to be wiretapped 24/7. Ironic that Americans look down their nose to other countries or denounce them because of their government system, or some perceived lack of freedom, while allowing it to be done locally, and this well-noted hypocrisy (especially well-noted abroad) is somehow okay. -- Moore/Alexander 2008
Conservatives love religious-like aphorisms so here's one: "Freedom isn't free. It's Made in China." | |   Shamayim I already have a Messiah. Premium join:2002-09-23
| reply to nogreenz1234 said by nogreenz1234 :
...choose one of the many socialist or communist parties who have not endorsed Obama -- yet. Fine-tuned it for ya. -- Who is Jesus? and Why it matters (to YOU).
| |  Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26 Spring Valley, CA
1 edit | reply to Blackened said by Blackened Not a bad choice. Voting Socialist this year. Fed up with the Democrat/Republican nonsense. I'd encourage anyone considering third parties to do so as well. So you would rather vote for nanny-statism instead. Yeah, that will show em'. | |  Blackened Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29 | If I wanted that, I'd move to the UK. | |  Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26 Spring Valley, CA
| reply to Blackened said by Blackened :And those who clearly do not understand the USA Socialist party's platform compare it to other countries using ZOMG (extreme) examples like this. For the most part, the democratic socialism practiced is all across Europe. Sweden, France, and Greece are but a few examples. They don't seem to be going under. There's more to a government than "communism", "socialism", "democracy", and any democracy has just the same likelihood of failure with corrupt government and stupid/repressed people. People still amaze me. Right, so you would advocate an exorbitant tax structure based on the Northern European model and call it a day? of course they don't seem to be going under, but yet they aren't doing very well either. Sure, Denmark may be the happiest country on earth, but you would be as well, if you had North Sea Oil fully funding every government endeavor you wish for. Not to mention that most Northern European countries, including Greece (which you mentioned) have population bases that magnitudes less than that of the US.
But go ahead and vote for a economic/social structure to teach those horrible politicians a lesson, while they laugh in your face and pocket lobbyist money. | |  Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26 Spring Valley, CA
1 edit | reply to Blackened said by Blackened France also targets religions known for certain crimes and heinous acts. Although, they do it officially, while the U.S. does it unofficially against Muslims, and has it's own history of open hate or bias against gays, women, blacks, italians, germans, japanese, etc. The French, like the U.S., have laws stating freedom of religion.
Granted, they can use a bit less paranoia, but sure as hell can the U.S.  Surely you can't be this daft. Using this type of moral equivalency is petty pandering. Not to mention woefully incorrect. | |  Blackened Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29
| reply to Asmodeus said by Asmodeus :said by Blackened :And those who clearly do not understand the USA Socialist party's platform compare it to other countries using ZOMG (extreme) examples like this. For the most part, the democratic socialism practiced is all across Europe. Sweden, France, and Greece are but a few examples. They don't seem to be going under. There's more to a government than "communism", "socialism", "democracy", and any democracy has just the same likelihood of failure with corrupt government and stupid/repressed people. People still amaze me. Right, so you would advocate an exorbitant tax structure based on the Northern European model and call it a day? of course they don't seem to be going under, but yet they aren't doing very well either. Sure, Denmark may be the happiest country on earth, but you would be as well, if you had North Sea Oil fully funding every government endeavor you wish for. Not to mention that most Northern European countries, including Greece (which you mentioned) have population bases that magnitudes less than that of the US. But go ahead and vote for a economic/social structure to teach those horrible politicians a lesson, while they laugh in your face and pocket lobbyist money. Well, clearly voting for the same parties gets nowhere.
If you want a free market style election (remember how great the free market is?) you need more than two choices, where the rationale for one isn't "because it isn't the other". That would be no choice. I'm sure many at DSLR would understand how much better it is for voters (like consumers) more choices ends up being.
If that party affiliates itself doing the same thing, knock that off the list, or, if it's every party, start considering other options. -- Moore/Alexander 2008
Conservatives love religious-like aphorisms so here's one: "Freedom isn't free. It's Made in China." | |  Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26 Spring Valley, CA
| reply to Blackened said by Blackened :said by moonpuppy :And how does the US "unofficially" discriminate against Muslims? » www.nytimes.com/2006/06/01/us/na···&emc=rssTerror Fears Hamper U.S. Muslims' Travel quote: Azhar Usman, a burly American-born Muslim with a heavy black beard, says he elicits an almost universal reaction when he boards an airplane at any United States airport: conversations stop in midsentence and the look in the eyes of his fellow passengers says, "We're all going to die!"
quote: Next month, the American Civil Liberties Union will go back to court to broaden a suit on behalf of Muslims and Arab-Americans who are demanding the United States government come up with a better system for screening travelers.
The delays, humiliation and periodic roughing up have prompted some American Muslims to avoid traveling as much as possible. Some even skip meeting anyone at the airport for fear of a nasty encounter with a law-enforcement officer. Those who do venture forth say they are always nervous.
quote: Mr. Salhab, 36, says his family remains shaken by their treatment at the border. Officers, their hands on their guns, swarmed around his vehicle, barking at him to get out as alarm bells clanged, he said.
"If I had sneezed or looked the wrong way, who knows what would have happened," Mr. Salhab said in a telephone interview. "I feared for my life."
Now, he said, every time his daughter, 4, sees uniformed officers, she asks if they are going to take him away.
"What happened to me at the border is inexcusable," Mr. Salhab said.
A complaint filed with the Department of Homeland Security in January got Mr. Salhab a form letter saying the government was looking into the situation. There has been no further response.
A number of American Muslims similarly upset by how federal agents treated them and their families are seeking relief through the courts. About eight men with Muslim or Arab roots are joining a suit already filed last year by the American Civil Liberties Union branch in Illinois demanding that the government improve its treatment of returning American citizens.
But similar suits have made little headway. In general, the Constitution protects all Americans against unreasonable search and seizure. But much more aggressive searches have been deemed reasonable at airports and at the border than elsewhere. Just how elastic that standard can be is what the lawsuits are addressing.
quote: Still, traveling makes many Muslim Americans feel like second-class citizens. Mr. Ahmed, the comedian, often travels wearing a T-shirt that says "Got rights?"
Right, so you are using civil litigations and social/cultural animosities as a means to bolster your point that the government actively discriminates against Muslims? Who the hell are you trying to fool? Just stop already. You make a horrible argument based on emotional ethics that have no basis in relevancy, much less reality. Get another schtick, yours just wore itself out. | |  Blackened Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29
2 edits | reply to Asmodeus said by Asmodeus :said by Blackened France also targets religions known for certain crimes and heinous acts. Although, they do it officially, while the U.S. does it unofficially against Muslims, and has it's own history of open hate or bias against gays, women, blacks, italians, germans, japanese, etc. The French, like the U.S., have laws stating freedom of religion.
Granted, they can use a bit less paranoia, but sure as hell can the U.S.  Surely you can't be this daft. Using this type of moral equivalency is petty pandering. Not to mention woefully incorrect. I'll ignore the daft part, since I have yet to see any decent argument, or even correct usage of the quoting system, from you. What part is incorrect? I gave a nice link which took all but 30 seconds to find of how the U.S. government discriminates. -- Moore/Alexander 2008
Conservatives love religious-like aphorisms so here's one: "Freedom isn't free. It's Made in China." | |  Blackened Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29 | reply to Asmodeus You also haven't backed up a single argument you've made. Just poo-pooing stuff off and trying to make it sound like I'm the "daft" one. LOL. | |  Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26 Spring Valley, CA
| reply to Blackened said by Blackened :said by Asmodeus :said by Blackened France also targets religions known for certain crimes and heinous acts. Although, they do it officially, while the U.S. does it unofficially against Muslims, and has it's own history of open hate or bias against gays, women, blacks, italians, germans, japanese, etc. The French, like the U.S., have laws stating freedom of religion.
Granted, they can use a bit less paranoia, but sure as hell can the U.S.  [/BQUOTE :Surely you can't be this daft. Using this type of moral equivalency is petty pandering. Not to mention woefully incorrect. I'll ignore the daft part, since I have yet to see any decent argument, or even correct usage of the quoting system, from you. What part is incorrect? I gave a nice link which took all but 30 seconds to find of how the U.S. government discriminates. Are you seriously going to peddle the notion that a muslim who "feared for his life" because a border agent "with his hand on his gun" barked at Mr. Muslim to comply with whatever orders is a sign of government discrimination. Harassment maybe, discrimination, hardly. Just to let you know, I'm not a white guy and I've never had this happen to me and I travel all over the world and the middle-east and have never had an issue. Ever. You are using emotional rhetoric as a means to make your point, even though there numerous cases of police brutality the world over, you are trying to project a system of perfection on an imperfect system and then call imperfect by pointing out discrimination of one sort or another. You want social justice, go live on the moon. You won't find it here. Discrimination regardless of who or what it comes from exists. Either deal with it or find a way to fight it, but don't whine to right thinking peoples that this is some kind of systematic institutionalized pattern. It isn't. It's humans being human. | |  Blackened Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29
| You must not be very good at reading, or just like ranting at people without much point to it. I used that as a means to show (and yes, it's true) that the U.S. is no less guilty because they don't officially write their discrimination into the law books. But since you simply defend this to me says you're just out to wave the flag and defend.. whatever. Some of us actively seek out solutions to problems, others make excuses for them. -- Moore/Alexander 2008
Conservatives love religious-like aphorisms so here's one: "Freedom isn't free. It's Made in China." | |  Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26 Spring Valley, CA
| reply to Blackened said by Blackened :You also haven't backed up a single argument you've made. Just poo-pooing stuff off and trying to make it sound like I'm the "daft" one. LOL. The problem is, is that you haven't made any. So Ashar Usman gets dirty looks. Wow, there is a shocker. The ACLU doesn't like the way the government goes about it's screening process, oh no what will we do. Mr. Salhab didn't like his treatment at the border, but yet he is still alive and well enough and not incarcerated to file a complaint with DHS and then had the nerve to travel with a shirt that proclaims that there aren't any rights while neglecting the fact that he is exercising those very rights he thinks he's lost. Fabulous.
Like I said, your type of argumentation is stale and tired. | |  Blackened Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29 1 edit | And yet you haven't brought crap to the table. A very well made argument indeed.
When you feel like actually countering with something useful, let me know.  | |  Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26 Spring Valley, CA
| reply to Blackened said by Blackened :You must not be very good at reading, or just like ranting at people without much point to it. I used that as a means to show (and yes, it's true) that the U.S. is no less guilty because they don't officially write their discrimination into the law books. But since you simply defend this to me says you're just out to wave the flag and defend.. whatever. Some of us actively seek out solutions to problems, others make excuses for them. Right. So your solution is to vote democratic socialist, oh sorry, American Socialist Party. Did I get that right? I'm quite good at reading actually, and I'm even better at filtering out your type of nonsensical sensationalism as a means to illustrate a dire social injustice. You just aren't very good at actually making real or cogent points, but then again, I'm just waiting to actually read what your 'real' solutions are.
Also, I don't need to defend any policies made by any government institution. If I have a complaint about anything my government does, I deal with it directly. I go to who represents me and work with them. That's the American way. It's to bad that armchair whiners just sit back and let it go buy and try to use other peoples misfortunes as an example of how bad things really are, when they are not. | |
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