mn wonder
@frontiernet.net
thumbs down from:
guypd 
| Sad News For Frontier.net Customers
This is continued from the discussion> Siemens Gigaset SE567 Port Forward Problems. It should be read by anyone that plans to continue using Port Forwarding and etc.
Sad News For Frontier.net Customers:
Today I ran into several frontier dsl folks who are in charge of upgrading the new system here in the state of Minnesota. What is to follow, is the information they gave me, and then we also did a test at my home so they could prove to me once and for all that the problem wasn't with my old SpeedStream (bridged) Modem dying.
First the tests. We tried four different types of SpeedStream 5200 Modems at my home. All had the same exact result. Lights would come on indicating a connection, but no handshake (lights blinking). This was also proved with the fact that we could not get out to the internet.
We then put the Siemens Gigaset SE567 in place of the SpeedStream 5200. Immediately there was a connection (lights on the front panel blinking) with a handshake. This was proved by acessing Google which came up on the monitor screen.
A discussion then followed for over 30 minutes as to why this was occuring.
The problem is not on the customers end!
The problem is at Frontier's end. They are changing things folks, plain and simple. They Do Not Want You to use port forwarding anymore and the IP Addesses will be business class if you want to do that. The PPPoE/Alcatel will not allow a Bridged Modem in the future, thus the SpeedStream 5200 Bridged model will no longer work. And, if you Succesfully Bridged the Siemens Gigaset SE567 Modem, it will only work that way for a short time until the change is system wide.
Case in point. The frontier folks then bridged my Siemens Gigaset SE567 and the result was the very same as the now non-working SpeedSteam 5200. Nope, doesn't work.. Once they put it back into PPPoE mode it works just fine.
So as of now, anyone that has a SpeedStream 5200 or similar bridged modem, their time of life is coming to an end.
I made my case to the frontier people that competition is good and that what I'm paying for 3Meg Down with a voice telephone is costing me $60.00. However, I can jump right over to Charter Communications (another internet provider) and get 10Meg Down for $34.99, first six months, and then $59.99 after that. It now makes very little sense to stay with Frontier if they indeed plan to Restrict Port Forwarding.
*Note: I wanted to use Windows Media Encoder using Port Forward for use with a NannyCam every now and then to check on my child at home. It worked before with the SpeedStream 5200, but not anymore*.
Frontier's Response: "Most people don't use features like Port Forwarding, and that their service was never intended to be used for streaming video, audio or anything else other then just downloading as the vast majority of Frontier's DSL Customers do". "If you want to do those other things such as Port Forwarding and etc., you need to pay for a Business Class DSL".
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the time these guys took to finally answer questions that the Frontier Help Desk Denied, or said was an outright lie by people in the field.
These Frontier guys proved it by showing me the problem along with explaining it to me.
Thank God someone was finally honest about what is really going and the future plans of Frontier.net
I plan on calling Charter Communications tomorrow (Wednesday). After being with Frontier over five years and never having a problem with their DSL service, it now comes to this 
P.S. All the days and time I spent trying to figure out a problem that Frontier Created, and then for the Frontier Help Desk to tell me (repeatedly) the problem was on MY END! |
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turls
Premium
join:2004-05-23
Carlinville, IL
edit:
July 9th, @08:40AM
| Can anybody else confirm this is changing system wide? The genie is out of the bottle, what are they thinking? I don't have a Charter to switch to. I'm also in the middle of a 2 year contract, so isn't that breach of contract?
The problem with moving to business class as far as I can tell is that you pay much more for less bandwidth.
I've got some contacts at Frontier I can talk to about this, but I don't want to cry wolf. |
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guypd
join:2008-05-08
Silver Springs, NY
 ·FrontierNet Intern..
 ·tw telecom
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| I have a pretty hard time believing that this is the case, since many online games, require port forwarding.
I can't think of any reason that Frontier would want to stop port forwarding, either. I would think it would be creating more problems, than it would be solving for them. |
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turls
Premium
join:2004-05-23
Carlinville, IL
| Online games, here's what else I have that is most likely going to be broken by lack of port forwarding--Eaton Home Heartbeat, Slingbox, Remote Desktop, and webcams. Of course it is a small percentage of people that can even figure it out, but that percentage is going to increase. I'm sick of companies using the excuse that most people don't use something to excuse dropping it, the people that do use it need it and pay the same others do. |
|
Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state
·Verizon Online DSL
·FrontierNet Intern..
 ·Dish Network
edit:
July 9th, @11:48AM
| reply to mn wonder
Well, one of my family relatives still have a SpeedStream 6520 that's 2-3 years old now, and Frontier hasn't sent them a thing to swap out that modem. They're still using PPPoA as well! Right now Port Forwarding is working fine in Sanborn, NY (as I can host Halo games for friends from their connection) but I'll keep an eye on things with Frontier regarding Port Forwarding. My family relatives though, have the DSL on their business phone line which belongs to a registered home business, so I'm not sure if they have business class DSL or not, but there is a neighbor next door to them who also has Frontier, but is on a residential line and has DSL. |
|
Sandford Spaniel
@comcast.net
| reply to mn wonder
I think we have to face it folks. The only place Frontier will spend money on network upgrades and better service is Rochester, NY. Everyone else can pound salt. They will milk the existing decrepit infrastructure till 85 percent of their subs jump ship. They will put a choke hold on features that have worked for years if they think they can squeeze a few more dollars from their user base. |
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mkrasz
join:2000-03-06
Rochester, NY
| reply to mn wonder
Frontier does not restrict port forwarding. As mentioned, it's use is vital for many applications. Frontier is however adding PPPoE to the network. Support for 'legacy' Bridged and PPPoA users should not be affected. As your Bridged 5200 no longer works it would appear that the change has effected your area. As the PPPoE SE567 does work and the Bridged 5200 doesn't, this indicates that frontier is waiting for PPPoE authentication (account username and password). If the SE567 is bridged and the BEFSX41 handles the PPPoE, that should satisfy the network.
I was able to bridge my SE567 and authenticate using a WRT54G set up for PPPoE and my user/pass. The WRT54G pulled a 74.46.x.x ip addy. This didn't work the first time. The first time I was still pulling a private addy from the SE567. I reset the SE567 to factory defaults (held in the reset button for 10 sec - till power blinks red), had my pc plugged into LAN 1, connected to 192.168.254.254 and let the auto-config complete, finished the setup and confirmed I could browse. I then followed your bridging steps and rebooted.
I was then able to pull a 74.x.x.x address through the SE567. I would guess at this point you may time out to a 169.254.x.x addy. I plugged the WRT54G into port 2 on the SE567 and the WRT54G successfully PPPoE authenticated.
I would stay away from the SE576 WAN/LAN port until things are working. If something is plugged into it when the SE567 auto-configs, it will expect the Internet connection to be on the WAN/LAN port and disregard the dsl port. |
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mkrasz
join:2000-03-06
Rochester, NY
| reply to mn wonder
I was playing around a bit more, and found that after the SE567 is bridged and rebooted, if you release and renew you will still get private addresses. But if you then move your LAN cable to a different port it no longer gives out private addresses. The resetting to factory defaults (as I mentioned above) wasn't necessary - just moving the LAN cable. |
|
mn wonder
@frontiernet.net
thumbs down from:
guypd
| reply to mn wonder
Update.
I had a nice conversation with a Frontier District Manager this morning on the telephone and here is what is happening in his own words:
*Quote*
The ATM Bridge Network is now gone.
The Cicso Server is now offline.
Alcatel Server with a Juniper Router is now online which
will prevent port forwarding.
PPPoE is now the backbone, PPPoA is Gone.
Anyone wishing to Port Forward will now have to upgrade to a Business Class DSL which costs:
$79.00 for a 1 year contract.
$69.00 for a 2 year contract.
This will provide you with a static IP Address and other little tricks to get your Port Forward working again by using MTU Settings and reconfiguring your router for 1400.
*End of Quote*
He then went on to say that way too many people were leaving their modems on and thus the IP Addresses could not be reused for someone else. Even if the person powered down the modem, the IP Address would still be assigned to that person for over 24 hours. That was unacceptable to Frontier. With the new system in place, as soon as you power down your modem, you automatically get assigned a new IP Address. No more hanging onto the previous IP.
His comments then referred to people like me who still use the old SpeedStream 5200 Modem and how that will no longer work, and how many of the little tricks we used to fool the system for our uses would no longer work by continuing to use that old bridged modem. "With the new Siemens SE567, in place, those days are now gone".
I then told this Frontier District Manager that there was a lot of local competition now in regards to internet providers, not to mention the faster speeds and lower prices those compeditors offered when compared to Frontier.
His comment follows>
"Because people were leaving their modems on, the IP Addresses were not being released and reused as they should. People were taking all the IP Addresses we had available and because of this, others could not access the internet thru our company. During severe weather people wanted to access the internet to get information and couldn't because of IP's being tied up. This just wasn't acceptable".
I wished him well with Frontier and told him I'd be looking at other options to get back what I had before Frontier made all of these new changes. He told me "technology is moving forward and that few people port forward anyway".
As of tonight, I have gotten out of my contract with Frontier and have taken my business to another ISP. I'm getting 16Meg Down, 2Meg up for $39.99 for six months, and after six months I'm only paying $79.99 per month.
If I had stayed with Frontier's Business Class.. I would be paying $79.99 per month for 2.7Meg Down and less then 4K Up, and getting assigned a static IP. No Thanks Frontier!
I will really miss Frontier because they've given me great service over the many years, but now they've made me seek business elsewhere |
|
Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state
·Verizon Online DSL
·FrontierNet Intern..
·Dish Network
edit:
July 10th, @12:38AM
| reply to mn wonder
For what they Frontier District Manager was saying, that is probably not the reason why they're doing this if anything. First of all, Juniper routers SUCK (hear a lot of problems with them down in the Verizon forum, good thing I'm not on one!) with Vista, and Frontier seems to have plenty of IPs. At any given time, I can reboot my family relative's modem and grab a new IP after the boot. If anything, just a transition to PPPoE will allow their system to release those IPs that people's modems had in the past as soon as an account connects or that it sees that a modem is no longer responding. It happens on my Verizon service doing PPPoE. As soon as I shut my modem off, within a minute my IP is back in Verizon's system to be used by someone else. Verizon's system polls my modem for PPPoE info about every 45-60 seconds. If it can't get the info, I get a red internet light and the modem has to try to send the info.
Also, DSL is meant to be an always on connection. If Frontier seriously wanted to keep people's modems offline, they need to require residents to set their modems to act like a dial-up modem and stay connected for as long as internet traffic passes within a set amount of time. OR, if Frontier is really that short on IP addresses, I'm sure there is another IP block available for sale they could buy. I'm sure ARIN won't mind that at all.
Or, if Frontier is really disparate, they can do what Verizon does when they have a shortage of IPs in large cities... make people's PPPoE session drop when someone's modem wants an IP and none are left for the area. That works until customers get mad :P
Anyways, I did hear on the news a few days ago that the Internet itself was running out of IPs (soo many people getting broadband), now all we need to do is get that IPv6 project rolling, that way, we can have an insane amount of addresses. |
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guypd
join:2008-05-08
Silver Springs, NY
·FrontierNet Intern..
·tw telecom
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to mn wonder
You have never said where you are in the US. This seems so hard to believe.
I guess if Frontier starts pulling this, it will only be for a short time, because they will find that a lot of people would be leaving their service. This is the main reason that people get broadband, instead of using dial up...for the always on connection. Who turns off their modem, when they aren't using the Internet?
I guess I'll believe it, when I see it. |
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Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state
·Verizon Online DSL
·FrontierNet Intern..
·Dish Network
| reply to guypd
Re: Sad News For Frontier.net Customers
Picture of PPPoA in Sanborn, NY. |
As for the Sanborn, NY area, it looks like Frontier hasn't done anything yet if this is true since their modem is still working over PPPoA (SpeedStream 6520) and running a trace route shows that they are not on a Juniper, speed tests on Vista show as well. Also, I can still host Halo servers from their house, but I'll keep an eye on their connection. |
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mn wonder
@frontiernet.net | reply to mn wonder
'MN' wonder = Minnesota  |
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mkrasz
join:2000-03-06
Rochester, NY
| reply to mn wonder
This doesn't make sense to me...
Anyone wishing to Port Forward will now have to upgrade to a Business Class DSL which costs:
$79.00 for a 1 year contract.
$69.00 for a 2 year contract.
This will provide you with a static IP Address and other little tricks to get your Port Forward working again by using MTU Settings and reconfiguring your router for 1400.
I could understand if we were talking static IPs and domain name hosting, but what does port forwarding have to do with any of this? Absolutely nothing in frontier's network can prevent you from setting up and using port forwarding in your router (SE567, Linksys, or whatever). A packet arrives addressed to your WAN IP address destined for a particular port, your port forwarding rule matches the destination port number and re-addresses that packet to your internal address. |
|
Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state
·Verizon Online DSL
·FrontierNet Intern..
·Dish Network
edit:
July 10th, @04:52PM
| reply to mn wonder
Frontier could be working on a system that blocks incoming initial connection requests, but the system will open up, only if you send the first packet, and not some other internet source, the port you want. I've heard of that being done before in I think Washington DC with Verizon. But really, the only thing we can really do is wait and see.
EDIT: One of the reasons why I think you guys are having problems with the GigaSet modems is because you guys are probably double NAT'ing. Since the GigaSets are routers themselves, you need to log into them if you haven't done this, DMZ your router if you have another one, and that should do it. |
|
mn wonder
@frontiernet.net
thumbs down from:
guypd
| reply to mn wonder
This will probably be my last post on the Frontier subject because as of monday I will be with a new ISP 
Siemens SE567:
Port Forwarding will not work here with or without a router behind it. It's been tried for hours upon hours. Not only with the Frontier Help Desk assisting in the process, but also trying everything learned on the net. Thats one of the reasons we then tried to 'bridge the Siemens SE567 so that a Linksys Router could try to take on the task of the Port Forward. Again, it didn't work because it was now 'bridged' which is exactly what the non-working SpeedStream 5200 is currently doing. You cannot run 'bridge mode' here any longer.
Over the course of 7-9 days of dealing with this mess, I finally gave up. The Frontier Help Desk has no clue to what is going on and even denied that changes took place, which indeed they had. Even the people at the Frontier - Burnsville, MN Office said the Help Desk didn't know what was going on.
I honestly can't imagine a mom or pop (who know very little about computers) trying to deal with this type of mess. I made a great many phone calls, I spent hour after hour of watching the frontier help desk take remote control of my computer and also just talking to them. I wrote down names of people I contacted at frontier, and used those people's names when calling back for more assistance to trouble shoot so I wouldn't have to start at page one over and over again..
Even the gal at the Frontier Business Class Office was saying how sorry she was for all of this.
With all that said; if you want to keep trying different ports to plug into, or take your wire out of this port and then put it into the WAN/LAN, and then back to a regular port to find out if it works, or possibly get it to work, so be it. This shouldn't have to be like this folks and I have to imagine that many people will leave for the competition if Frontier doesn't get their act together.
Like I said before.. I'm going to miss Frontier and some of the employee's that truly tried to help. But I'm not going to miss the mess.
Good Luck |
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guypd
join:2008-05-08
Silver Springs, NY | I don't understand what the problem is, because I have the Siemens Gigaset SE567 and I have been able to bridge it to a Linksys router with no problem. I then use the router to do port forwarding with no issues, either. |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| reply to mn wonder
said by mn wonder :
Siemens SE567:
Port Forwarding will not work here with or without a router behind it. It's been tried for hours upon hours. Not only with the Frontier Help Desk assisting in the process, but also trying everything learned on the net. Thats one of the reasons we then tried to 'bridge the Siemens SE567 so that a Linksys Router could try to take on the task of the Port Forward. Again, it didn't work because it was now 'bridged' which is exactly what the non-working SpeedStream 5200 is currently doing. You cannot run 'bridge mode' here any longer.
The only way the ISP can take away port forwarding is to supply you with a Private IP Address or to block specific incoming ports of popular servers. Both are very easy to determine/diagnose. Do you have a Public IP in the Speedstream when it handles the PPP connection? If Yes, they can't stop Port Forwarding. Then that leaves blocking of ports like Port 80.
»techsupport.frontiernet.net/port···ing.html
»www.portforward.com/english/rout···ndex.htm
When you Bridge Mode, you are taking away the PPPoA or PPPoE authentication. All DSL Modems are Bridges and Bridge Mode has to work or ATM cells would not transfer.
I'm curious what you are using to supply PPPoA or PPPoE Authentication? Since only a Combo Bridge-Router can connect using PPPoA you cannot Bridge a PPPoA connection. You can only Bridge a PPPoE connection.
It sounds like you are greatly confused.
All Speedstream show this log info that proves their default mode is Bridge-Router and in Bridge Mode you are only taking away the Router so at all times it is a Bridge or the DSL would not work.
Bridge Mode cannot be taken away as you suggest as the DSL would then not work at all. You have to supply PPPoE to get an IP since you removed the firmware supplied PPPoE software by setting bridge mode. And as I previously posted, there is no PPPoA software, you can't Bridge a PPPoA connection ever. You must use a Bridge-Router that supports PPPoA in the Firmware and have to enter your Username/Password in the Modem/Router combo for that type of connection to work.
This is the proper way to set Bridge Mode in the Speedstream 5200 and 4200 units. Until I've seen different, the newer SE567 should work exactly the same way and there is no need for all that VC and RFC2684 configuration mess I read you did in another thread. All that shows is you don't understand how the devices you have actually work.
»Efficient Networks Forum FAQ »How do I change into Bridged Mode on the 4100/4200?
Regards,
Doctor Olds
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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