Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| From the ground up! .GIF/thumb.jpg "18536 bytes")
VelCom - Thomson ST546v6, FW v7.4.3.2 (Limoilou, 2008-Jul-8) |  .GIF/thumb.jpg "18463 bytes")
VelCom - GNet GBB2060-Xi (Limoilou, 2008-Jul-8) |
I'll cease updating my "Tweaks" thread next week
after moving to Quebec city (Limoilou), the phone
line conditions will change and this means that
future MoDem comparisons will need to be based on
new grounds as a consequence. Further confusion
can be avoided, hopefully, by launching a separate
thread where my future findings can be posted so
here it is: those are my very 1st static numbers
and they're so fresh i can't actually join speed/
latency tests because PPoE authentification works
but there's no real connectivity yet... Perhaps
i must explain... Well, VelCom was very kind to
me as they agreed to activate the DSLAM a few days
before i'm finished moving to my new appartment!
In other words, the DSLAM card is ready and VelCom
is able to access Bell's Line-Test portal for that
phone line but my DSL access still isn't providing
browsing capability - and that's totally normal or
i'd have to pay for two DSL accounts, obviously...
Honestly, i value this level of cooperation shown
by the VelCom guys as their solution garantees my
access is ready (and maybe even optimized) by the
time i'm done moving (e.g. no delays whatsoever)!
Warm salutations to Matthew and his co-workers!!!
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
1 edit | Re: From the ground up! I guess i can make two preliminary observations at this point:
1) My electrical distance is about 3.9 Kilo-meters
2) The best CRC Error immunity is probably achieved
at the expense of Relative Capacity Occupancy...
Addendum:
...and maybe even one more...
3) I may be ready to call my ISP for a profile raise! | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: From the ground up! .GIF/thumb.jpg "46917 bytes")
VelCom - DMT (GNet GBB2060-Xi, 2008-Jul-30) |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: From the ground up! .GIF/thumb.jpg "19070 bytes")
VelCom - ST546v6 FW v7.4.4.7-iA (2008-Jul-31 23h26) |
to observe that everything seems to be OKay by now!
Settle time for this capture was only about two hours,
(it's just for preliminaries), i'll post more details later... | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: From the ground up! .GIF/thumb.jpg "19211 bytes")
VelCom - GNet GBB2060-Xi (Tweak, 2008-Aug-3 11h53) |
such as rain and lightnings have become the norm here!
Perhaps i'll be able to publish one 24 h curve tomorrow... | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: From the ground up! Time for an update...
Here is an approximation of the phone line's spectral response
while it's still not completely optimized... Areas where colours
are fully saturated represent high probability levels. Take note
that my samples were taken at random intervals between July
31, August 1st, August 2, August 11, August 12 and August
13 via either a Thomson SpeedTouch 546v6 (FW v7.4.3.2-AA)
or my newer Thomson SpeedTouch 516v6 (FW v6.2.29.2-GE). | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: From the ground up! .GIF/thumb.jpg "78349 bytes")
VelCom - Siemens SS4200 (2008-Aug-20 20h) |
This set of curves demonstrates how misleading it
might be to trust the SNRM curve alone - imagine if
using "static" numbers only!... I don't recall what's
the exact timing but i sure remember that i turned
on the 3 fans (Intec's XBox 360 'Air Cooler', item#
G8648C) late after midnight. That's a "green" device
(environmentally friendly) using a small switching-
mode power supply and it was found at Zellers, it's
installed right below my MoDem (or in front of it for
the old GNet) since i arrived here in Quebec city. I
suspect there's noise comming from the fans, their
PSU or both so it's something i must investigate!...
But right now, my point is this: the SNR Margin data
which was captured at 20 h simply didn't allow me to
foresee what would happen in the next few minutes:
SNRM was 5 dB for the most part of the day and it
was even lower during the period between midnight
and 5h30, actually. Yet, a major disruption occured
after 20 h which even twenty hours worth of curves
couldn't help to predict, nonetheless! Put shortly, a
24 h set of curves is nice to have but it's even nicer
to collect many of those so that a pattern emerges.
Back to the SNR Margins, we'd find it most impractical
to watch the numbers every fifteen minutes so that's
why i prefer 'STMT' over 'DMT' if using a SpeedTouch:
the curves are much more informative than a pair of
numbers which may be great for a SpeedStream 4200
while the very same figures appear to be dangerously
marginal (at best!) for a typical SpeedTouch 5x6v6...
By the way, looking at SNR Margins one can't tell when
i turned off my fans but it seems the CRC curve helps.
So, i invite the readers to draw their own conclusions!
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | Re: From the ground up! Euh...
By "PPP event" i mean major disruption...
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: From the ground up! Playing with MoDemOptions late at night...
N.B.:
The 'STMT' curves are not available when using FirmWare 6.1.4.6! | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
1 edit | Re: From the ground up! No graphics for today, lets just mention that my ST516
loaded with FirmWare v6.2.29.2-GE is unable to provide
a connection around 21 h each day while my ST546 with
FirmWare v6.1.4.6 (UK) works reasonably well for tasks
such as browsing and even listening to pseudo-streamed
radio (Pandora)... All of this being made accessible and
easy for anyone to try, thanks to 'DMT v7.35'! In my own
case, MoDemOption register 0 is set to #A8h, this lowers
the speed to 3072/800 Kbps FastPath and the transfers
are reduced but i still obtain a connection, at least!... | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: From the ground up! .GIF/thumb.jpg "19178 bytes")
VelCom - Bell's portal (Siemens SS4200, 2008-Aug-29 15h06) |
Rate of 4095 per day at 15 h this afternoon comparatively
to over 4840 an hour later. Perhaps the phone-line quality is
starting to degrade earlier than what i suspected previously. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: From the ground up! .GIF/thumb.jpg "19187 bytes")
VelCom - Bell's portal (Siemens SS4200, 2008-Aug-29 18h09) |
7920 CRC Errors/day (averaged) and rising... | |
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See 22 replies to this post |
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See 28 replies to this post |
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ex bell
@cgocable.net
| Re: From the ground up! said by Bicephale  :Now will someone care to explain the "voltage cross" concept? Just means a there is metallic to another pair. You are getting voltage conducted from one or more conductors in a cable to your pair.
Very common. Most often in your F1 or F2 pair. Can occur in multi pair drop and bsw.
Test board will catch this right away as well as dispatched tech. on a repair ticket (well should). | |
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U got it
@videotron.ca | Re: From the ground up! said by ex bell :
(well should).
Bingo again.
"should" is the operational word.
Don't get me going now... | |
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ex bell
@cgocable.net | Re: From the ground up! said by U got it :
Don't get me going now...
No, you've got some reading on the new Cogeco AUP to get done. | |
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best guess
@videotron.ca
| said by Bicephale :Now will someone care to explain the "voltage cross" concept? Hmm while looking up "stary current" I came across this:
"Stray Voltage"
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stray_voltage
It *appears* to fit in with what "ex bell" said. But the article is more geared to heavy power lines.
But it should be similar, *I think*.
I never was able to find something telco-related on this.
"ex bell" should add this info to a one of the wiki sites on DSL (along with "cut-ahead").
It's something ignored a lot (both terms) and kind of hidden from the user since it's a sign on the quality, age and neglict on part of the telco's. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | What do i need to monitor in order to capture positive evidence? | |
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ex bell
@cgocable.net
| Re: From the ground up! said by Bicephale :What do i need to monitor in order to capture positive evidence? There are current telco techs with more dsl training than I in this forum »AT&T Southeast that could probably answer that. Try a thread there. | |
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great question
@videotron.ca
| Evidence?
Unless you can measure voltage cross, or find a tech willing to check it out, or get an "honest" test center person at bell to monitor your line and communicate with you (maybe privately), no clue.
I will be very impressed if you find a way to do this (provide evidence) Bicephale.
Maybe a couple of electro-engineers/techs could help you find the answer, or some uni-prof (maybe some forum with these experts)? | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | All right. What i meant was what parameter i should try to monitor?
• Attenuation
• Voltage
• Etc... | |
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my case
@videotron.ca | Re: From the ground up! In my case both SNR and occupancy were jumping.
Occupancy would jump like 2 points or more that I noticed. That value should be very stable. Yours is already high.
no other clue i can offer. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | Thank you everyone for your contributions!
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: From the ground up!
The graphic for this later addition used only seven daily samples
out of seventeen... The rest of those samples differed so much i
decided to divide the whole set into seven groups. I believe the
present averaged curves are more representative of reality but i
included all samples into my accompanying SpreadSheet anyway
so that the reader gets the opportunity to play with a few more
scenarios, like i have. The graph from above corresponds to my
3rd group of sample, i tagged those the "look alikes"...
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: From the ground up!%20.GIF "94499 bytes")
ST516v6 - Rx CRC - Ovl vs Avg (2009, Aug 22-27, Sep 3) | %20.GIF "70506 bytes")
ST516v6 - Rx CRC (2009, Aug 16-17, 20-31, Sep 1-4) | %20-%20(2009,%20Aug%2016-17,%2020-31,%20Sep%201-4)%20.GIF "36647 bytes")
ST516v6 - ln(Rx CRC) - (2009, Aug 16-17, 20-31, Sep 1-4) | 
ST516v6 FW v6 - Seasonal Transition? |  ST516v6 - An···-4) .ZIP 3,403,954 bytes
.CSV SpreadSheet-Ready File + SnapShots (2009, Aug 16-17, 20-31, Sep 1-4) | | |
I've really got some "fun" with that one... Finally, here's
a clear illustration of what "SNR Bleeding" looks like: we
can see it droping gradually as a few bins are being lost
to noise and then the link gets eventually renegotiated.
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Farchord
Lost somewhere.
join:2004-08-28
Shawinigan, QC | Bicephale, update your 585v7's firmware with the one I posted on the TSI forums IT'll fix your DMT's problems. | |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: From the ground up!%20.GIF "48401 bytes")
ST516v6 Long-Term Averaged Curves (2009-Sep, 12-18, 22-30) | %20.GIF "353985 bytes")
Groups (5) of individual daily records (DS SNRM is Green, Rx CRC/HEC are Blue, DS BitRate is Yellow | %20.GIF "92299 bytes")
ST516v6 Averaged RxCRC Groups (2009-Sep, 12-18, 22-30) | %20.GIF "152955 bytes")
MoDem Comparisons - SS4200 vs GBB2060 vs ST516v6 (2009-Sep, 12-18, 22-30) | ST516v6 FW v···-18,.zip 753,970 bytes
(ST516v6 FW v6.1 - Analysis & MoDem Comparisons (2009-Sep, 12-18, 22-30) .ZIP) | | |
This late data harvest was done using the same Thomson
ST516v6 as before, my experimenting setup was identical
except for its FirmWare (which i've changed to v6.1.0.5).
MoDem comparisons weren't straightforward to make this
time: i could hardly expose any daily 24 h sinuosidal noise
floor from the long-term curves as i did before, except for
the noisiest averaged group-curve (Sep. 15, 17 & 27)!
It's not clear if this was due to my change of FirmWare or
some radical modification in the phone-line behaviour as a
consequence of some seasonal influence but my Thomson
now compares reasonably well with the other DSL units...
It's still noisier once the aberrations have been rejected,
in my opinion, but this represents a definite improvement!
One feature of my ST hasn't changed a bit after i flashed
it with another FirmWare, though:
%20.GIF)
ST516 - Speeds Degrade over time, Bicephale, 2009-Oct-4
The DS SNR Margin Bleeding Syndrome remains as obvious
as ever!
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: From the ground up!%20.GIF "46465 bytes")
ST516v6 - Averaged Analysis (2009-Oct, 4-8, 16-19) | %20.GIF "457119 bytes")
ST516v6 - Daily Records - RF Choked (2009-Oct, 2-19) | %20.GIF "35455 bytes")
ST516v6 - Events (2009-Oct, 7-8, 20) | %20.GIF "29647 bytes")
ST516v6 - Grouping Pre-Analysis (2009-Oct, 2-21) | ST516v6 FW v···20) .ZIP 425,275 bytes
SpreadSheet-ready .CSV Formatted Data | | |
Today's post reveals some significant changes/differences.
1st of all, the SNR Margin "bleeding syndrome" is much less
severe but this could be a result of the phone-line being a
lot more stable instead of the FirmWare's quality, go figure!
The marginal events revealing a 3+ dB SNR Margin boost of
at least twenty minutes each are still as puzzling as ever...
Analysis of "look-alike" daily records has been made: 1) by
grouping the records in respect to their slope (see the last
graph); 2) by keeping only those that were "in sync" (e. g.
with the expected number of samples)... Two main groups
emerged, each was 5 (Oct. 4-8) and 4 (Oct. 16-19) days
respectively. The top graph which compares them reveals
a tremendous improvement relatively to the records taken
in the previous months. The cause could be better phone-
line conditions, a more suitable FirmWare or a mix of both.
Take note how a manual reset took care of the SNR Margin
"bleeding syndrome"... | |
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