Topic 'From the ground up!' in forum 'Canadian Broadband' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/From-the-ground-up-20764263 en Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:43:17 EDT Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:43:17 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-25271250
...especially you, Oinktastic, my dear friend!

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-25271250 Sat, 01 Jan 2011 09:21:19 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-25033650


But a post seemed to justify that i keep it around for a while longer:

»Re: Velcom rant



Of course chances are there will never be an update from that one.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-25033650 Fri, 05 Nov 2010 00:27:53 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-25027577
Remembering the days before your cable connection?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-25027577 Wed, 03 Nov 2010 21:08:47 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-25027270 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-25027270 Wed, 03 Nov 2010 19:55:34 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24757794 It seems i was about to forget posting this important capture
without which the present thread would have felt incomplete.


VelCom to Videotron Transition (2010-Jun-22) - Test Results History
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24757794 Sat, 04 Sep 2010 23:00:03 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24484550 affect other aspects of life negatively, not just DSL alone:
health costs may come to mind indeed!!!

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24484550 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 23:39:56 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24484148
Leaving DSL is the best thing for you, your sanity, your hair, and your blood pressure. That's right. Bell causes premature balding as well, in case no one knew.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24484148 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 22:01:27 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24482537
I thought i had left ADSL for cable but it turns out that ADSL
didn't leave me just yet! Lucky me, i had the idea to call the
ISP just to make sure their files showed that i had cancelled,
euh... But i discovered instead that i can still connect - even
if Bell's dial tone is gone, actually... That's Bell's last trick but
i didn't fall for it: they made it look like my phone line & ADSL
signal were both dead but it seems my InterNet access with
VelCom was down on a temporary basis only (it came back
on line after i disconnected every single wire from Bell). Well,
the ADSL signal is even worst than it was before anyway and
i'm not blaming VelCom for it: my last capture shows i was
right as hell to switch to cable! Bell downgraded me to 3008/
800 Kbps and the link still fails to be reliable, can you believe
it?! Of course you can, there's plenty of horror stories besides
mine on this web site alone! Oh and my CRC Error Rate remains
astronomical, of couse!... Why am i not really surprized?!...


ADSL signal: Still Mediocre after Downgrade!
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24482537 Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:19:31 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24454301 a consequence of Bell's way to treat 3rd-party partners, not to
mention their customers!... This thread lasted two years and it
was meant to explore topics such as MoDem comparisons so i'll
post the rest of my records if that's still of interest. Meanwhile,
here's one conclusion so far: it was the tweaking features of a
non-"T" TP-Link TD-8841 (A) which saved the day for me in the
end. My two GNet (BB0060B & GBB2060-Xi) were the next best
option to remain connected at 5056 Kbps but a "trade-off" was
necessary (in the form of UpStream Spectral Shaping, to create
some more room for the DownStream band). Both the Thomson
ST5x6 and Siemens SpeedStream 4200 simply failed to meet my
expectations miserably and i think that the ST's reputation was
clearly over-estimated when i bought my 1st one years ago. I
fear i'll miss my hobby of monitoring the DSL performance and so
on but something is telling me that i'll manage to find some other
ways to spend my spare time. Beu Bye Bell!

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24454301 Tue, 29 Jun 2010 15:35:01 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24433904 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24433904 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 22:13:29 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24433816 Six months after New Year's Eve...


MoDem & Bell Portal BitRates both concur to be false!, Bicephale, 2010-Jun-3

My move: Beu bye Bell! , Bicephale, 2010-Jun-16

TP-Link TD-8841 - Avg Curves (2010, May, 27-28, 31, Jun-1)
TP-Link TD-8···-1) .ZIP 99,294 bytes
SpreadSheet Document in .CSV format		  
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-24433816 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 21:50:14 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23961396 {Reserved space: i decided not to let it die just yet, post presently in preparation...}

GNet GBB2060-Xi - Preliminary Analysis (2009-Dec, 5-30)

GNet GBB2060-Xi - DS SNR, Average vs Overlay (2009-Dec, 5-30)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23961396 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:15:17 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23660111 This one has been waiting on the back-burner long enough, it
is about time to see what that long-term record has to say!!!



Grouping of "look alikes" was done simply by using the Rx CRC
daily rate. Seven groups emerged, group #4 formed a majority
while the others remained marginal (especially group #7 which
is composed of "Not-in-Sync" and/or "eventful" daily records).


GNet BB0060B - Pre-Analysis (2009-Nov, 3-23)

GNet BB0060B - Analysis (2009-Nov, 3-23)
GNet BB0060B···23) .ZIP 429,891 bytes
GNet BB0060B - .CSV SpreadSheet Analysis (2009-Nov, 3-23)		  
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23660111 Mon, 18 Jan 2010 01:50:49 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23382503 Today's post reveals some significant changes/differences.

1st of all, the SNR Margin "bleeding syndrome" is much less
severe but this could be a result of the phone-line being a
lot more stable instead of the FirmWare's quality, go figure!

The marginal events revealing a 3+ dB SNR Margin boost of
at least twenty minutes each are still as puzzling as ever...



Analysis of "look-alike" daily records has been made: 1) by
grouping the records in respect to their slope (see the last
graph); 2) by keeping only those that were "in sync" (e. g.
with the expected number of samples)... Two main groups
emerged, each was 5 (Oct. 4-8) and 4 (Oct. 16-19) days
respectively. The top graph which compares them reveals
a tremendous improvement relatively to the records taken
in the previous months. The cause could be better phone-
line conditions, a more suitable FirmWare or a mix of both.



Take note how a manual reset took care of the SNR Margin
"bleeding syndrome"...

ST516v6 - Averaged Analysis (2009-Oct, 4-8, 16-19)

ST516v6 - Daily Records - RF Choked (2009-Oct, 2-19)

ST516v6 - Events (2009-Oct, 7-8, 20)

ST516v6 - Grouping Pre-Analysis (2009-Oct, 2-21)
ST516v6 FW v···20) .ZIP 425,275 bytes
SpreadSheet-ready .CSV Formatted Data		  
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23382503 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:57:55 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23288471 Oups! There's been a problem with the previous archived log-file...

:o
ST516 FW v6.···-30).zip 753,970 bytes
(ST516 FW v6.1 - Analysis & Comparisons (2009-Sep, 12-18, 22-30) .ZIP)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23288471 Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:54:47 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23174735 This late data harvest was done using the same Thomson
ST516v6 as before, my experimenting setup was identical
except for its FirmWare (which i've changed to v6.1.0.5).

MoDem comparisons weren't straightforward to make this
time: i could hardly expose any daily 24 h sinuosidal noise
floor from the long-term curves as i did before, except for
the noisiest averaged group-curve (Sep. 15, 17 & 27)!



It's not clear if this was due to my change of FirmWare or
some radical modification in the phone-line behaviour as a
consequence of some seasonal influence but my Thomson
now compares reasonably well with the other DSL units...

It's still noisier once the aberrations have been rejected,
in my opinion, but this represents a definite improvement!



One feature of my ST hasn't changed a bit after i flashed
it with another FirmWare, though:


ST516 - Speeds Degrade over time, Bicephale, 2009-Oct-4

The DS SNR Margin Bleeding Syndrome remains as obvious
as ever!


ST516v6 Long-Term Averaged Curves (2009-Sep, 12-18, 22-30)

Groups (5) of individual daily records (DS SNRM is Green, Rx CRC/HEC are Blue, DS BitRate is Yellow

ST516v6 Averaged RxCRC Groups (2009-Sep, 12-18, 22-30)

MoDem Comparisons - SS4200 vs GBB2060 vs ST516v6 (2009-Sep, 12-18, 22-30)
ST516v6 FW v···-18,.zip 753,970 bytes
(ST516v6 FW v6.1 - Analysis & MoDem Comparisons (2009-Sep, 12-18, 22-30) .ZIP)		  
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23174735 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:35:30 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23118252 This animation shows 'DMT' captures taken at midnight,
RCO information was obtained a few minutes later from
Bell via VelCom... The numbers are only representative
of a very short time-slice compared to the 24 h graph,
as those numbers varied throughout the day.

While looking at it, try not to pay as much attention to
the error rate bursts as to the overall error rate "floor";
just observe how it's correlated to the "static" numbers,
despite the warning i've expressed right above.



Intuitively, my little animated .GIF here tends to confirm
that the Error Rate & RCO figures went up when the DS
SNR Margin went down but it does't tell which came 1st.

Was it DS SNR Margin drops which caused my Error Rate
and RCO to increase or was it Error Rate bursts instead
which caused the RCO to increase while the SNR Margin
plumetted?...



Better be safe than sorry, in my opinion, so if i'm asked
what lesson can be drawn from this at all then i'll say it
must be to search for a DSL device with the best SNRM
possible, the next step being to use some RF Choking if
suitable.

GNet GBB2060-Xi SNRM vs RCO vs Err Rate (Summer '09)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23118252 Fri, 02 Oct 2009 03:58:00 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23071732 Finally, here's something i waited for patiently... It still
tells me the same old story as when i was in Louiseville.


Siemens SS4200 vs GNet GBB2060-Xi vs Thomson ST516v6 (Summer 2009)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23071732 Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:18:17 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23031209 I've really got some "fun" with that one... Finally, here's
a clear illustration of what "SNR Bleeding" looks like: we
can see it droping gradually as a few bins are being lost
to noise and then the link gets eventually renegotiated.


ST516v6 - Rx CRC - Ovl vs Avg (2009, Aug 22-27, Sep 3)

ST516v6 - Rx CRC (2009, Aug 16-17, 20-31, Sep 1-4)

ST516v6 - ln(Rx CRC) - (2009, Aug 16-17, 20-31, Sep 1-4)

ST516v6 FW v6 - Seasonal Transition?
ST516v6 - An···-4) .ZIP 3,403,954 bytes
.CSV SpreadSheet-Ready File + SnapShots (2009, Aug 16-17, 20-31, Sep 1-4)		  
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-23031209 Wed, 16 Sep 2009 06:30:11 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22893427 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22893427 Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:37:46 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22892387 The graphic for this later addition used only seven daily samples
out of seventeen... The rest of those samples differed so much i
decided to divide the whole set into seven groups. I believe the
present averaged curves are more representative of reality but i
included all samples into my accompanying SpreadSheet anyway
so that the reader gets the opportunity to play with a few more
scenarios, like i have. The graph from above corresponds to my
3rd group of sample, i tagged those the "look alikes"...


GBB2060-Xi Analysis (2009, Jul 24,28,30-31,6,8,14)
GBB2060-Xi A···14) .ZIP 1,302,231 bytes  
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22892387 Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:45:14 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22836972 Time to immortalize test results, while i think of it...

Those are the test sites i use (1 out of 3 tries each):

http://testvitesse.videotron.ca/
http://speedtest.cogeco.net/
http://www.mountaincable.net/index.php?id=3,114,0,0,1,0

Here's a link to the page where such results are shown:

http://www.dslreports.com/testhistory/1267354/b1adc

...and this is a link to the RF Choking experiment (top):


RF Choking (on the WAN side), Bicephale, 2009-Jul-18

VelCom - DSL Reports Test Results (2009-Aug-8)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22836972 Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:04:04 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22762766
:D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22762766 Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:58:38 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22757047
Occupancy would jump like 2 points or more that I noticed. That value should be very stable. Yours is already high.

no other clue i can offer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22757047 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:23:33 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22756969
• Attenuation
• Voltage
• Etc...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22756969 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:57:38 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22755718
Unless you can measure voltage cross, or find a tech willing to check it out, or get an "honest" test center person at bell to monitor your line and communicate with you (maybe privately), no clue.

I will be very impressed if you find a way to do this (provide evidence) Bicephale.

Maybe a couple of electro-engineers/techs could help you find the answer, or some uni-prof (maybe some forum with these experts)?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22755718 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:18:49 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22755575 said by Bicephale:

What do i need to monitor in order to capture positive evidence?
There are current telco techs with more dsl training than I in this forum »AT&T Southeast that could probably answer that. Try a thread there.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22755575 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:17:51 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22755318 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22755318 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:08:36 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22754700 said by Bicephale:

Now will someone care to explain the "voltage cross" concept?
Hmm while looking up "stary current" I came across this:
"Stray Voltage"
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stray_voltage

It *appears* to fit in with what "ex bell" said. But the article is more geared to heavy power lines.

But it should be similar, *I think*.

I never was able to find something telco-related on this.

"ex bell" should add this info to a one of the wiki sites on DSL (along with "cut-ahead").

It's something ignored a lot (both terms) and kind of hidden from the user since it's a sign on the quality, age and neglict on part of the telco's.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22754700 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:53:35 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22754563 said by U got it :


Don't get me going now...
No, you've got some reading on the new Cogeco AUP to get done.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22754563 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:19:48 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22754486 said by ex bell :

(well should).
Bingo again.
"should" is the operational word.

Don't get me going now...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22754486 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:03:36 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22754465 said by ex bell :

He cut ahead, techs are instructed not to do this. After your terminal your F2 or F3 pair may travel quite a distance.
This shortens the loop, removes potential imbalances and metallic issues. Drop cuts are when crews replace drops wires.
Bingo, that's it.

ty for correcting it.

Wish I could explain it Bicephale, I look at it like a short (or stray current).

My line, on a good day, had a 14-volt voltage cross (when everything was good). 14 volts or so caused some static on the phone.

2 or 3 tech's measured the same thing and they called it a voltage cross which they say is different than a short.

On semi-good days, everything was down and non-functional (no clue what the voltage cross reading was on those days).

What you have is a little less than what I had, but no different from what I see. In my belief you will have to cause a bigger problem as stated above to get anywhere.

But I see no difference.

Must be stray current between pairs?

I couldn't tell you. I too would like to know what this mysterious voltage cross is that isn't a short.

You need a good tech (which isn't standard with bell), all I can truly say.

My fix took 6-weeks with lots of bitching and calls/emails to Crull/executive office. The first time I had this it was 2.5 to 3-month to repair.

So like I said, with you not being a Bell customer, you are going to be left to rot unless you pull some dirty tricks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22754465 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:00:07 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22754123 said by Bicephale:

Now will someone care to explain the "voltage cross" concept?
Just means a there is metallic to another pair. You are getting voltage conducted from one or more conductors in a cable to your pair.

Very common. Most often in your F1 or F2 pair. Can occur in multi pair drop and bsw.

Test board will catch this right away as well as dispatched tech. on a repair ticket (well should). ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22754123 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:08:57 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22754060


Now will someone care to explain the "voltage cross" concept?



It evokes words like "crowbar", "shunt", well that sort of things
but i could be wrong...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22754060 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:50:57 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22753963 said by damned if i know :

He also shortened my loop by removing me from the loop, I think they call it drop cutting maybe? (that alone dropped my attenuation 4 points and my SNR jumped up by 4 more points). But you don't hear of many techs doing this any more at all.He cut ahead, techs are instructed not to do this. After your terminal your F2 or F3 pair may travel quite a distance.
This shortens the loop, removes potential imbalances and metallic issues. Drop cuts are when crews replace drops wires.

The voodoo is all in the tech you get, if you play dirty a bit like above.
Good advice with Bell, fight fire with fire.

With the high turnover at Bells contractor BTS it is only luck of the draw if you get a competent tech.

Even then he has to be willing to go the extra mile (they are unionized after all) and bend the rules. There are some out there though.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22753963 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:40:47 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22752989
Been there done that, have the t-shirt.

But my voltage cross was bad. I either had static on the phone or no DSL.

I had around 6 or 7 tech visits.

Finally one guy took it in his own hands and fixed it (but I had to contact kevin crull).

Bell will not do anything for a 3rd party ISP, nor will they do anything for their own customers unless they bitch to high hell.

That's why I said he will have to play some dirty games and create a short on his line killing his DSL just to get a tech out and tell his ISP/tech its intermittent (when it rains and when there is lots of wind etc).

Then cross fingers and pray.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22752989 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:31:02 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22752626 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22752626 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:10:07 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22751901 said by Bicephale:

...
So, if i've read you correctly, according to what you
would normally expect, the DownStream Attenuation
level is higher than it's supposed to be and this could
result from leaky insulation, etc., causing a shunting
effect in the higher DSL band?... If so, now that i've
done all i could to ascertain that i have no issue with
HardWare i'm directly responsible for - even beyond,
actually! Euh... All that remains to be done is find a
way to get Bell to change their drop-line.

Easy!



But how do i do that?!?...

 
I didn't say the downstream attenuation is higher than its supposed to be. The attenuation could be good.

What I'm getting at is that given your speed, path and the great values on upstream (all upstream values are nice), your occupancy on the downstream is out of whack, which is indicative of a short or voltage cross.

If it was a short some place I would expect your attenuation to be higher and your SNR jumping more, so I won't say its a short, but rather a voltage cross (This is how a couple of techs explained it to me) on the outside line.

If it was anything major, during the spring or fall (or early winter) it would likely have shown more, but it didn't.

From what I make out your SNR is jump (High and low) from around 11.5 to 7.5, or about 4 points.

If it jumps 2 points at most I would say that's stable for DSL. At 4 its problems, especially since you are 1.5 points away from disconnects and other issues. Toss in that 95% occupancy and it adds up to a voltage cross.

I couldn't begin to tell you how to get someone out to fix it, unless you purposely cause a short on your line (if you have land line try and fix it so you have static when you call).

Get a ticket open and get a date.

Bell will monitor the line from the test center, so every hour or so cause a short to make everything stop working (make a load).

When the tech is there make sure the short you made is gone, show him your stats and graphs (if you get a beginner your shit out of luck) and tell him its the line pair.

A half decent tech will test the available pairs and give you the best ones. Get the stats before he leaves and tell him if its better or not and to keep changing pairs till it's better, or if it's worse have him put the old pair back.

This is the only monkey business I can think of to get a tech out to you. Otherwise both the ISP and Bell will ignore you.

If the ISP is decent they will play along with you and record Loss of sync to submit to Bell etc.

Chances are Bell will just drop your profile and you will have to argue with your ISP to bump it up again because Bell likes their short-cut band-aids to fix things.

Or offer a case of 24 to a local tech you find or a tech from the forum if you know of one near you.

This is how it appears to me, and this is how I think you will get any response at all (and it all depends of the quality of the tech you get).

Once they sent me a phone tech who didn't do DSL and he dropped my 3-meg connection to 512 and told me my phone static was fixed and he left me like that when I said no way. heh.

So make sure you get a high-speed tech and not a phone tech.

I see nothing else. We both know the ISP won't do nothing for an SNR jumping 4 points and Bell will do everything possible to ignore you if you are not their customer since you have no one to complain to like Kevin Crull.

It's market forces.

Also, it may not be the drop line itself, but rather a bad pair from where-ever the cable comes from that feeds you to the drop line.

The guy who came here to finally fix the issue had to drive like 4 blocks away to change pairs, then he would come and hook it up in the box up on the pole that my drop was connected to.

He also shortened my loop by removing me from the loop, I think they call it drop cutting maybe? (that alone dropped my attenuation 4 points and my SNR jumped up by 4 more points). But you don't hear of many techs doing this any more at all.

The voodoo is all in the tech you get, if you play dirty a bit like above.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22751901 Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:45:21 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22751388
Well, i should confess that i did become suspicous of
my drop-line somewhat when i catched these events:


From the ground up!, Bicephale, 2009-Jun-22


From the ground up!, Bicephale, 2009-Jun-28

So, if i've read you correctly, according to what you
would normally expect, the DownStream Attenuation
level is higher than it's supposed to be and this could
result from leaky insulation, etc., causing a shunting
effect in the higher DSL band?... If so, now that i've
done all i could to ascertain that i have no issue with
HardWare i'm directly responsible for - even beyond,
actually! Euh... All that remains to be done is find a
way to get Bell to change their drop-line.

Easy!



But how do i do that?!?...

  ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22751388 Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:46:52 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22751133 said by Bicephale:

See the difference!?... Where's the noise from?!!


The outside line itself probably has a minor voltage cross.

Why are you busting your butt when Bell should change the line or pair for you (good luck fighting with your ISP to get that type of service).

The occupancy is also very high.

What is strange is the very low attenuation on your upstream. I would expect it to be much higher if it was all a distance issue. Very clean upstream channel it seems (without looking at all your graphs)

I bet on a clean line (or pair change) your SNR would not go up by much more than 5-7 points points given the speed, attenuation, occupancy and path.

I claim it is a minor voltage cross on the line and you need a pair change. Once changed the occupancy will drop to high 80`s to low 90`s.

All fits the symptom of a defective outside line to me since you put so much work on the inside.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22751133 Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:01:49 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22750924
I moved my DSL device to a shelf located right
behind the NID and installed a POTS Splitter...

I used Stand-Off Cable Supports to move Bell's
drop-line away from the house's PVC electrical
power conduits.

I "tweaked" and added RF Chokes but, no matter
what i done, it seems Bell keeps reclaiming every
parcel of room i manage to free for myself when
i look back at my 1st days here:


From the ground up!, Bicephale, 2008-Jul-31

See the difference!?... Where's the noise from?!!


VelCom - Limoilou - The Next Summer
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22750924 Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:17:18 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22730320
»RF Choking (on the WAN side)

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22730320 Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:58:04 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22722945
Click for full size
Siemens SS4200 - 12 Days Avg Curves (2009, Jun, Jul)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22722945 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:35:05 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22721451
Here's what this required:

• Lots of patience
• Some work
• No fancy formulas

Only common sense...


Siemens SS4200 - DS SNR - (2009-Jul, 7-12)

Siemens SS4200 - Rx CRC - (2009-Jul, 7-12)
Siemens SS42···12) .ZIP 720,532 bytes  

RF Choking Comparisons (2009, Jun 30, Jul 1-5 & 7-12)

Siemens SS4200 - RF Choking (2009, Jun-30, Jul 1-5 & 7-12)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22721451 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:15:39 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22699477 I just can't match a pair of daily stories among any of those, it must be a summer thing!...


Siemens SS4200 - DS SNR (2009, Jun-30, Jul 1 to 5)

Siemens SS4200 - Rx CRC (2009, Jun-30, Jul 1 to 5)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22699477 Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:08:38 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22635235
Noise daily records varied considerably.

Downward variations in my 4 days SNR Margin averaged curve remind me of this somewhat:


Click here to soom in!


Siemens SS4200 vs DMT - Avg DS SNR (2009-Jun, 21-24)
Siemens SS42···24) .ZIP 477,392 bytes  
Click for full size
Siemens SS4200 vs DMT - Analysis with filtering (2009-Jun, 21-24)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22635235 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:06:40 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22625978 Even more highlight...

TP-Link TD-8841 vs RouterStats - SNR Event (2009-Jun-13)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22625978 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:19:59 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22623053
Just a complement to highlight a feature which catched my eye previously...

TP-Link TD-8841 vs RouterStats Log (2009-Jun, 9, 13)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22623053 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 07:45:29 EDT Re: From the ground up! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22591933
Is my drop-line sane?...


TP-Link TD-8841 vs RouterStats Log (2009-Jun, 11, 14-15)
TP-Link TD-8···15) .ZIP 908,724 bytes  
Click for full size
TP-Link TD-8841 (A) vs RouterStats (2009-Jun, 9, 13)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-From-the-ground-up-22591933 Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:17:12 EDT