Rick
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Waterbury, CT
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edit:
July 9th, @01:34PM
| reply to ptrowski
Re: This was a joint press release....
said by ptrowski  :AKA Comcast admitting they were messing with Vonage VoIP calls. I know numerous people with vonage using it over comcasts lines the last year.
Not a single one ever had a problem.
Do you have any facts to support your rampant speculation? |
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ptrowski
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edit:
July 9th, @01:41PM
| said by Rick :said by ptrowski :AKA Comcast admitting they were messing with Vonage VoIP calls. I know numerous people with vonage using it over comcasts lines the last year. Not a single one ever had a problem. Do you just run around making things up or what? Check the Vonage forums here and vongage-forums.com
So Comcast just for giggles decides to have this press release with them? Come on.
I like how you use the reasoning of saying "I know people who do it so it must not be true".
Nice edit of your post, glad I quoted it.
Here is just some threads from our Vonage forums...
»/nsearch?q=com···s=%2C271 |
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Rick
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Waterbury, CT
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edit:
July 9th, @01:45PM
| said by ptrowski :I like how you use the reasoning of saying "I know people who do it so it must not be true". I'd say my reasoning which is based on personal knowledge of these people and their vonage service and Comcast connection is far superior to your source which seems to be
"check the post of some stranger in a forum".
You're so quick to assess blame on comcast apparently without considering at all the fact that who knows what their real issue was? Perhaps it was their internet connection in general or the fact that Vonages calls completely rely on using the public internet, traveling over many networks.
Instead..you turn that into "Comcast admitting that they're messing with VOIP calls".
Quite the leap there on your part if you ask me. |
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ptrowski
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| said by Rick :said by ptrowski :I like how you use the reasoning of saying "I know people who do it so it must not be true". I'd say my reasoning which is based on personal knowledge of these people and their vonage service and Comcast connection is far superior to your source which seems to be "check the post of some stranger in a forum". You're so quick to assess blame on comcast apparently without considering at all the fact that who knows what their real issue was? Perhaps it was their internet connection in general or the fact that Vonages calls completely rely on using the public internet, traveling over many networks. Instead..you turn that into "Comcast admitting that they're messing with VOIP calls". Quite the leap there on your part if you ask me. Come on, let's be serious here. This is a PR stunt trying to show that Comcast has "turned a new leaf". I used Vonage for quite a while and was very active in the vonage-forums. There are cases where people would use Vonage on a Comcast connection that tested "clean" and had issues, and then tried another connection and it was clear.
Interstingly enough a crop of issues popped up around the time Comcast was launching CDV. Am I saying they mess with every VoIP call? No. Was there enough evidence that pointed to it? Sure.
Remember, Comcast said they never used Sandvine and denied it until they were dragged into the light. This is only a PR stunt, just like when they made their announcement with Bit Torrent. Have a press release, snap a few pictures, look how we are playing nice.
Should Vonage become a bit more of a business threat, then they will fall into "reasonable network management".
--
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Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| reply to Rick
said by Rick :I'd say my reasoning... Aaah, yes- the unjaded and unbiased reasoning of Comcasts #1 coolaid drinker... |
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Cheese
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join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
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| said by Cod :said by Rick :I'd say my reasoning... Aaah, yes- the unjaded and unbiased reasoning of Comcasts #1 coolaid drinker... Psssst, it's Koolaid  |
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ptrowski
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| reply to Cod
said by Cod :said by Rick :I'd say my reasoning... Aaah, yes- the unjaded and unbiased reasoning of Comcasts #1 coolaid drinker... Yes, his reasoning and sampling of other Comcast afficianados is of course always correct. Comcast HD is flawless, they don't throttle or interfere with VOIP at all, and they love puppies. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to ptrowski
Since Comcast typically sells service as 6Mbps and higher, there typically should be very little issue.
I'm on a 3Mbps/512kbps ADSL line (read 2600/420kbps throughput), and I use Skype all the time for conference calls w/o issue. I even use it over a VPN + SSH tunneled + Squid proxy connection (VPN kills local access), and it works fine.
--
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ptrowski
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| said by en102 :Since Comcast typically sells service as 6Mbps and higher, there typically should be very little issue. I'm on a 3Mbps/512kbps ADSL line (read 2600/420kbps throughput), and I use Skype all the time for conference calls w/o issue. I even use it over a VPN + SSH tunneled + Squid proxy connection (VPN kills local access), and it works fine. You can have great speeds, but if the packets are delayed or lost, then you will have poor voice audio.
That's why when people say "I have plenty of speed so it should be fine" that is not always the case. To diagnose poor voice I use www.testyourvoip.com vs a speedtest. |
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JamesPC
join:2005-10-12
Orange, CA | reply to ptrowski
Exactly, not rocket science people. |
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Rocketbob
join:2006-06-08
Stillman Valley, IL
| reply to Rick
I had Vonage for three years under Insight with flawless service. As soon as Comcast took over I had nothing but problems. Dropped calls, ring unable to answer, clipping ect.
I had to drop Vonage and go back to Verizon. Also, the latency now is so high xbox live is almost unplayable. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | reply to ptrowski
Yup... claims that video that goes into outer space is inheritly inferior to comcast, VRADs will cause people to die, and now this. |
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Rick
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Waterbury, CT
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edit:
July 9th, @07:29PM
| reply to ptrowski
said by ptrowski :said by Cod :said by Rick :I'd say my reasoning... Aaah, yes- the unjaded and unbiased reasoning of Comcasts #1 coolaid drinker... Yes, his reasoning and sampling of other Comcast afficianados is of course always correct. Comcast HD is flawless, they don't throttle or interfere with VOIP at all, and they love puppies. And your reasoning is based on...what?
Not even being a Comcast nor Vonage customer?
Interesting perspective you have there.
Perhaps the real issues are with your AT&T ~ Viatalk setup and you're just posting in the wrong thread? |
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hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH | reply to ptrowski
as it is said you never hear much good about a product or service but you always hear about the bitching. Especially here. People are always bitching about something when it doesnt go their way. Chances are they don't have something set up right. |
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ptrowski
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| reply to Rick
said by Rick :And your reasoning is based on...what? Not even being a Comcast nor Vonage customer? Interesting perspective you have there. Perhaps the real issues are with your AT&T ~ Viatalk setup and you're just posting in the wrong thread? Nope, my setup works just the way I want it to, but thanks for the concern. Thats is a nice thing about DSL for VoIP as I don't get the large fluctuations in speeds I used to on my old cable provider and I don't have to worry about my neighborhood being oversold. DSL historically plays better with VoIP than cable does.
Have you tried any VoIP besides CDV Rick? I have for almost 4 years, so I know a bit about it. I have been a Vonage customer in the past for close to two years.
Vonage is named on the press release, but this truly concerns any third party VoIP application which is not a Comcast product. Anyone using a third party VoIP product should be concerned over Comcast's "network management" practices.
My reasoning is based on posts on out Vonage forums here and other sites which is a good sampling of people that are not in bed with Comcast. Comcast had to be forced to admit they were f'ing with P2P. Who not see them "delaying" pakcets on their network they see as voip? Hell, they are not blocking them, just delaying them. In VoIP, delaying packets = crappy quality. So who will be blamed? Not Comcast, because their connection is "fast" in their mind. So VoIP gets the black eye while Comcast sells their CDV product for almost double the price. |
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Rick
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| Comcast has something like 24 million customers including 5 million phone customers.
Don't you think that if they were blocking or delaying voip traffic that more than a few people posting in a thread here or there complaining about their service would have known about it by now?
Vonage...viatalk, and all these other voip providers have one thing in common. They spend precious little time on their own isp's network in search of what they'd like to call a phone service. What you are proposing is something similar to you living in Ct..taking a trip to California..and blaming a section of I~84 for the reason you had a bad experience somewhere along the rest of that 3,000 mile journey. VOIP travels through all kinds of routers..all kinds of networks...all kinds of hops..completely unrelated to the individuals ISP.
But yet..you ..as a non Comcast..non vonage customer..feel qualified to not only blame Comcast..but to state with the utmost certainty that this joint press release with Vonage now "exposes" Comcast for what you'd like them to be....but which all those countless millions of others never had the experience you cite.
And, for your reference..you cite not even your own experience...but the post of some stranger in some forum for a service you don't have..on an isp you don't have.
Wow. Just.....Wow.
--
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ptrowski
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| Not stranger, Rick, stangers, more than just a handful.
But I asked you have you ever used a third party VoIP provider before?
Here you are pointing fingers at me for not being a Comcast customer. I look at it from the other side. I have used VoIP for many years, and personally I have used them with 5 different ISP's, maybe more. I help friends with their issues and setups. So I don't care which provider it may be, but yes, ISP's mess with VoIP and Comcast has had their own amount of complaints.
But again, have YOU ever used Vonage, Viatalk, Packet8 etc provider before?
As for your reference, you cite not your experience either but a service you have NEVER used with an ISP you worship.
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Rick
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Waterbury, CT
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edit:
July 10th, @08:08AM
| I have Comcast HSI and I've used both Vonage and another VOIP provider personally in the past.
And, it goes without saying that I've been a part of this site and forums for years and have seen many of the same kinds of posts you refer to.
I put little emphasis however on the above because it pales in comparison to the fact that with comcast being such a massive, nationwide ISP..with millions of customers and who knows how many more million people using their network from other isp's for voip purposes..that if what you're saying and suggesting had an ounce of truth to it..that it would be much more widespread than what a few people post here and there on this site re: their experience with vonage.
The problem with your case is that it would have to be an all or nothing proposition. Every person using VOIP would have a problem with using it with their Comcast connection and the Comcast forum would be full of complaints about it. And, as of my last reading of the forum I see exactly...none. And so, I'd suggest that it's far more likely that whatever individual issues people have..they're just that..individual.. and attributed to other things.
And so, it doesn't have to be my personal experience that matters...even though I've had it.
I have cited and questioned your personal experience however not only because you don't have the service and choose to cite a few "stangers" posts as your "evidence"..but mainly because in addition to that..you choose to ignore all the above in making your accusation.
And that's what makes your suggestion something I consider to be without merit.
In any event, I'll be moving on from this debate.
~Rick |
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CableTool
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| reply to ptrowski
said by ptrowski :But again, have YOU ever used Vonage, Viatalk, Packet8 etc provider before? I have never used VoIP but any home Ive been in that had a problem with Vonage or any VoIP provider was related directly to a service issue. A service issue that was repaired. As with any VoIP product, there is no error correcting capability. A virtually perfect connection web wise can mask errors that the modem itself corrects. voice packets cannot be "resent".
When something is wrong with your service from an RF standpoint VoIP is the FIRST thing affected.
Again, the article never stated Vonage was ever degraded. And it has never been degraded. Its simply a joint press release that VoIP calls, vonage or otherwise, will never be touched and are treated equally among web traffic on thier network.
Screw the Vonage forums.
"I have Comcast and Vonage and my calls suck! Comcast is screwing with my packets!!!!"
What you have here is the nations leading Cable internet provider most likley providing bandwidth for the majority of Vonages customers.
What that boils down to is the likelyhood of someone having a voice issue and being on Comcast is pretty great. But again, it all goes back to a regular old RF issue, nothing tricky going on.
If a tech goes to a home with a VoIP issue with another provider the same care is given to the customer. The same VoIP tests are run that they would run with their own VoIP customers to ensure call quality. MOS scores and all.
Happy trolling however!!
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ptrowski
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| Screw the Vonage forums? Oh please. I could say screw the Comcast forums but I don't.
How many people try Vonage, can't get it to work, call Comcast or Time Warner, etc and say "well, it must be on Vonage's side". So they stop using VoIP and blame the provider.
The average joe looking in the big box store sees the Vonage box, buys it and brings it home. They try it, it doesn't work. They call Vonage who says call your ISP. They call their ISP and they say "everything is fine". They are not going to find out about random or burst loss, latency etc. They just want it to work.
My point is there were alot of posts that popped up about having issues with Vonage and Comcast especially around the time CDV was becoming more popular. It's not unreasonable to think giving Comcast's less than stellar track record of being honest about what they do with packets that they dabbled with "managing their network" and that affected VoIP.
You may not think so, nor will Comcast Rick ever think so. But there are plenty of posts on multiple forums that would say otherwise.
And Rick, we are all strangers on these boards.
--
"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org |
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